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post #1 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, first post in this forum. My head is finally spinning enough with all this new info that I think I have a base broad enough for this simple post now. I'm brand new to the audio world.

I have been shopping for home theater components for about a month now. I think I'm set on my projector, so on to audio. I went into HH Gregg the other day, and they let me listen to some Klipsch Quintet III's with a blu ray sample disk running through a high dollar ($1k) yamaha receiver. They were also hooked up to a 12" synergy sub. [i]They blew me away![i] Now, like I said, I'm far from an audiofile type of guy.

My question is, how good are these, really? Am I just a flat out rookie, and I just don't know what good stuff sounds like? I really thought they rocked, but to be honest, I'm only comparing them to my Infinity radio in my dodge truck....

My other question is, they guy there at HH told me the next step down in price would be Polk RM6750's. The Klipsch system was about $900 with the added sub, the polks can be found for $299 online with an included sub. I know that the polk just comes with an eight inch sub, and the sub hooked up to the quintets was a 12 inch sub that was $400 alone.

Unfortunately, the polk's were just set up with a receiver running stereo radio, so they weren't playing the same source material as the quintets were. They sounded like crap compared to what I just heard running through the klipsch's. How much better will the polks be with the same source, comparable to the quintets??

What are some other recommendations on par with the Klipsch's in the same budget? (The klipsch system is really just out of my budget.)

Also, I have been thinking of a Onkyo receiver. The 506's can be had online for just $200. The next step up, the 606, is twice that. I have found 606's for $399 online. The 606 is really popular, but just surfing through the specs of each of them, the only difference I see is 15 watts extra per speaker. Are those 15 watts that important, or is there something I'm missing?

I haven't bought a thing yet, so I haven't messed anything up, and would like to start out with quality from the get go.

Thanks for all your forthcoming help!

Jeremiah
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post #2 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 06:11 AM
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In the end, the only opinion that matters is your ears.

If it sounds good to you, then it's good because you're the one who has to listen to it; just be wary of upgrade-itis

There are a number of good deals out there at any particular time.

A few suggestions:

- go out to several stores and listen to many speakers (even out of your price range) and see if there are any that you don't like and which ones you really like (hey, maybe you'll like everything); knowing your likes and dislikes will help people make suggestions

- when you do the auditioning, bring some music that you know and like so that you are hearing the same source material

- figure out your preferred and absolute maximum budget

- describe your room and any design/size constraints

You'll get some good suggestions; but remember they are just suggestions, your ears and wallet make the final choice.

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post #3 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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My room is in my basement. It's an 'L' shape. The two long dimensions are both about 25 feet, the bottom of the 'L' is 16 feet wide and that is where my screen will go. The couch will be in the middle of the bottom long side facing to the right. There is an "I" beam going across there that hangs down about 10 inches or so. I have carpet down there and drywalled walls.

I'm getting dizzy every time that I go into best buy and HH gregg, there are a lot of options. So many that I don't even know where to begin. Is there a particular group of speakers I need to seek out that are in the same ballpark as the quintets?
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post #4 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

In the end, the only opinion that matters is your ears.

If it sounds good to you, then it's good because you're the one who has to listen to it; just be wary of upgrade-itis

If someone is a rookie, do you just send them away to pick whatever?

How does that help them? They have no idea what truely is a better sounding speakers. They have years of maybe bad listening experiences to create false assumptions about sound and we just say "go listen". He even stated he does not know great sound and you still send him away

Long term the OP will learn that the more accurate sound is the better sound....just look at how many people buy speakers that do not measure accurate only to have them EQed flat with Audyssey. Its a strange way of getting back to accuracy.

If he is on this forum and he is willing to learn about speakers then there are many better ways to learn about speakers and overall system performance then just sending him away to listen.

I would suggest he learn about the most simplistic speaker measurements. Which means simply understanding the FR plot that most speakers manufacturers have posted (accuracy sometimes is the question but its a start).

hehe, he already likes the klipsch sound....gotta love that company for catering to the ears of noobs. Its the first sound people tend to like then some move beyond it some dont (NOTE: Im still a klipsch fan for Rock n Roll)

I would suggest looking for deals online...there are lots of choices in the $1000 range that blow away the klipsch wrt long term listening.

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post #5 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

Am I just a flat out rookie, and I just don't know what good stuff sounds like?

Well, yeah, but you know you are, which is how you learn.

Klipsch is known for its horn-loaded tweeters, which produce a bright (louder than flat response at high frequencies) sound that many folks find fatiguing over time.

In this case, both of the systems you're considering have another issue: they're based on very small satellites that only go down to about 120hz. That means you're depending on the subwoofer to produce the mid-bass info as well as the really low stuff -- none of the speakers will produce a really full sound on its own. Bass is supposed to be non-localized below 80hz, which is the THX standard for subwoofer crossover.

I would listen to some full-sized bookshelf-based systems, even inexpensive ones, from somebody besides Klipsch. If you don't want to brave the AV shops, maybe go to a local Best Buy and check out the Magnolia Home Theater section.
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post #6 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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So you're telling me that the small stuff can't handle the bass on their own. I can see that. So the subwoofer is taking over at a point where the small sats can't do it, makes sense. So, I'm taking that as if you had bigger speakers, you could throw more bass to them, and get that bass bouncing around the room instead of coming from the same spot all the time?

"Klipsch is known for its horn-loaded tweeters, which produce a bright (louder than flat response at high frequencies) sound that many folks find fatiguing over time."

That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. But, since this is just going be one or two movies a week through the winter time, I wonder if this kind of sound is preferable?

What the heck is the "magnolia room?"

Off now to look at some "fr plots". THanks for the info.
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post #7 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 01:18 PM
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Like others said, listen to some various brands. You will find a sound you really digg, as the brands do have certain 'sounds' even between some of their lines. However, try and compare them at similar price points, as you could risk comparing what amounts to being a Chevy to a Lexus....

Klipsch is a good brand (and so are Polks). I've listened to Klipschs, but don't follow their specs ... so no help there. If the ones you are considering do only go down to 120 Hz, then that's awful high and you are missing out on some midrange, even for a speaker that needs a subwoofer augmentation.

You mentioned that you are considering the Onkyo 606. I'm not sure how it compares to its lesser sibling, but it directly competes against the Yamaha RX-V663. I chose the Yamaha over it, as A) I could find a better deal on it, B) the Onkyo has a reputation for running hot and that's not so good if it is going to be placed in a confined area, C) features and D) I plain like Yamaha's equipment

Depending on what you choose and how loud you play your HT, the 15 watts could be somewhat meaningful. None of the amplifiers in this class are hugely powerful, as far as amps go. Also, take a very close look at what sound formats it will decode, number of inputs and convenience features (such as configurable presets for various sound stages), etc. Some of the added features may not matter much to you, but please do not scrimp on available sound decoding formats. These are a critical part of the 'secret sauce' for bringing a HT to life! (and you cannot add them later in an integrated AV receiver).

On the other hand, the features may be so close as to not matter to you or you don't want them (making the less expensive purchase the way to go). When I got my 663, I could have moved up to the next version for $400 more. For what I would have got, the extra $400 did not seem worth it.
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post #8 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 01:41 PM
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I have the Klipsch set at home (inherited from my bro-in-law ). But - if i were going to drop 1k on some speakers - it wouldn't be on these. They sound alright, but as was stated earlier, they are all small satellites all the way around (even the fronts) and the sound fullness just isn't there when i'm trying to get completely enveloped into a movie or listening to music. Don't get me wrong - they will do well - but for 1k, i believe there are other options out there that would be more suitable for you.

With all that space, the most important piece (imo - obviously) is the subwoofer. You need a nice solid sub to fill that space for you. So the one that comes with the Polk package - or even teh Klipsch one - i don't think either of those will satisfy you. I'd put more into a sub and make sure you get quality there. Look at places like Elemental Designs, HSU, SVSound - places like those who are known for solid subs.

How important are surrounds to you right now at this minute? I am an advocate of building your system piece by piece. I just posted in someone else's thread about putting together a Polk / ED front sound stage for around $800. It includes bookshelves in the front (that can later be transferred to the back as surrounds when you upgrade) a center channel, and a solid sub. That would be a good beginning that when more money comes (i.e. next years tax return ), you can get some towers for the front and move the bookshelves to the back and have a REALLY nice setup.

Hope this helps! Let me know if you want specifics on the speakers i recommended.
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post #9 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Candjhuntley, I'd love to hear what you'd recommend specifically.

I'll also take a look at the yamaha 663.

The 606 has "upconversion" so all the inputs can be sent through one hdmi cable to my projector. That's important because I may be planing wii via component cables, and I don't want to run hdmi and component to my projector, if I understand the system correctly. The 506 doesn't have this "upconversion."
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post #10 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

So you're telling me that the small stuff can't handle the bass on their own. I can see that. So the subwoofer is taking over at a point where the small sats can't do it, makes sense. So, I'm taking that as if you had bigger speakers, you could throw more bass to them, and get that bass bouncing around the room instead of coming from the same spot all the time?

Yup. Actually, there are small speakers that can do bass pretty well, but not near your price range. (And I don't mean Bose -- they suck horribly.)

Quote:


What the heck is the "magnolia room?"

Best Buys have a separate section for higher-end audio/video stuff called "Magnolia Home Theater". Not sure if all of them do, but all the ones I've seen.

Other big stores around you might have other good mass-market brands for you to hear: Infinity, JBL, other (bigger) Polks... You can get good deals for these on the internet. Of course, the forum will also recommend internet deals on brands you won't be able to hear in person, or will have to go to a specialized hifi store to hear. For speakers, you might want to stick to stuff you've heard (or not), but I'd definitely go internet direct on the subwoofer. The $400 SVS will destroy anything you could get in person for near that price.
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post #11 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

Candjhuntley, I'd love to hear what you'd recommend specifically.

I'll also take a look at the yamaha 663.

The 606 has "upconversion" so all the inputs can be sent through one hdmi cable to my projector. That's important because I may be planing wii via component cables, and I don't want to run hdmi and component to my projector, if I understand the system correctly. The 506 doesn't have this "upconversion."

You playing BluRays? Using a PS3?

You could save money and go with a 2007 or 2006 AVR model that upconverts all Video through HDMI.

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post #12 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I'm not going blu ray, but I don't want to cut that option off in the future. So I'd like to get something that will do them when the time comes. Just like speakers, I don't need a full 7.1 system yet, but I want to have that option in the future.

My projector will be a 720p also, not 1080p.

So, that being said, the yamaha 663 won't work for me since it's just a 5.1 system max.

Where can I look at 2006 or 2007 stuff that is new? Can you reliably buy a receiver used and not worry much, or are they not a good "used" purchase?
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post #13 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

No, I'm not going blu ray, but I don't want to cut that option off in the future. So I'd like to get something that will do them when the time comes. Just like speakers, I don't need a full 7.1 system yet, but I want to have that option in the future.

My projector will be a 720p also, not 1080p.

So, that being said, the yamaha 663 won't work for me since it's just a 5.1 system max.

Where can I look at 2006 or 2007 stuff that is new? Can you reliably buy a receiver used and not worry much, or are they not a good "used" purchase?


The 663 is a 7.1 system, I have one in my office so there is no question about that.



Yes, you can buy used great products, they are the biggest bang for your $$$ and 2007 models will do all the latest audio/video that you will need for years to come if your BD player decodes the HD audio for you.

If you need to work on a tight budget this is your best solution. There are incredible AVR options for under $300 online. Refurbished, etc.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #14 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:13 PM
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I would take a very serious look at a system like this:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

With your size of room, this system comes with a "real" sub.
Far better than either of the two you mentioned.

Look at the SBS-01 mains with the PB12-NSD sub for $ 1089.
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post #15 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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If you see any deals, throw them my way: jeremiahm@hotmail.com

I mistakenly looked at the yamaha 363, sorry. Looks like the 663 is about a hundred bucks more money than the 606, so I'll keep an eye out for either in the used market. I never heard of the the 663 before, so maybe they run a little cheaper on the used market?
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post #16 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

If you see any deals, throw them my way: jeremiahm@hotmail.com

I mistakenly looked at the yamaha 363, sorry.

Sorry but you kind of need to do this sort of research on your own. The deals are out there you just need to spend time looking for them.

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post #17 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

If you see any deals, throw them my way: jeremiahm@hotmail.com

I mistakenly looked at the yamaha 363, sorry. Looks like the 663 is about a hundred bucks more money than the 606, so I'll keep an eye out for either in the used market. I never heard of the the 663 before, so maybe they run a little cheaper on the used market?


$360 shipped from JR.com I think was the recent price if you call and ask for the AVS special (its for a full warranty/brand new 663)...Im not sure what the 606 is priced at there could be close was but you should read the AVR forum for a bit to learn what options you have. 663 gives you greater upgrade flexibilities because it has pre-outs. Of course all this AVR talk should be on the AVR forum.

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post #18 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, I didn't know there was an avr forum! ha ha

I'm busy checking out the links in this thread now. I'm currently surfing SVS now.

I think a trip to best buy and hh gregg is in order for tonight!
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post #19 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

ok, I didn't know there was an avr forum! ha ha

I'm busy checking out the links in this thread now. I'm currently surfing SVS now.

I think a trip to best buy and hh gregg is in order for tonight!


If you have some trust in online shopping you are going to save lots of $$$ and have an overall better system then you can remotely get from BB or HH.

They suck IMO

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post #20 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

Candjhuntley, I'd love to hear what you'd recommend specifically.

Well - i'm somewhat partial to polk as that's what i just ended up going with for a friend whose theater i'm putting together. But no matter what setup you go for, right now i'd focus on ...

2 Mains
Center
Sub

And add in others later. That way you can get higher quality all the way around with a little patience.

What i recommended Polk-wise was...

Mains: 2 x PolkAudio RTi A1 for $340 - The RTi line is one of the best lines Polk has (much better than the TSI line you'll be able to audition at BB) and these are the small bookshelves. The idea is to start with these now, and they should do well - but eventually to eventually send them to the back for surrounds (where they would work perfectly) and replace them with something like the PolkAudio RTi A5s which would come out to about another $700 later. If that's too pricey, then either picking up another pair of A1s, or perhaps some RTi A3s would probably serve you well with HT / Gaming.

Center = PolkAudio CSi A4 refurbished from Polk's Ebay Store - It can be had for $200 including shipping with BIN, but it seems if you wait out the auction, it can usually be picked up for over $50 cheaper. And from my experience, don't worry about the refurb tag, all my polk speakers for my friend were ordered from there and they are in perfect condition. This center is specifically designed for the RTi line.

Sub = Elemental Designs A2-300 for $350 and free shipping. I've read good things about this sub and that it's highly rated. It's got a cheap enough price tag on it to keep you in budget, but should be solid enough for what you want it to do.

So you'd be looking at:
RTi A1 = $340
CSi A4 = $150
A2-300 = $350
Total = $840 for a good start to add more to next time

That's just my recommendation for a start - but there have been other great suggestions too - like the SVS, checking out other speakers at the Magnolia store - all kinds of things.

The important thing is this - take your time and enjoy it. Scour the internet for that deal that will leave you immensely satisfied with your purchase, but don't compromise quality sound to save a buck - a couple of years down the road when that $500 you saved by going with lower quality doesn't mean anything to you, but you're still having to listen to those speakers, you'll wish you had spent the extra

good luck - and let me know if i can be of any further assistance!
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post #21 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 03:08 PM
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I just picked up a 663 from JR today.

Now I'm looking for speakers as well.

Candjhuntley, that looks like a good system to start.
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post #22 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 06:38 PM
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Sorry to say Jeremiah, but your post sounds like a lot of others in this forum, and you wind up with the same generic answers. Unfortunately you're asking the wrong questions. A couple of points to consider

Listening tastes and subsequent speaker choices are mostly subjective, with many responses coming from personal preferance....speaker a is better than b or c is too bright and so on.....take all of this with an aspirin and start a new thread in the morning!

The room and placement of the speakers will have just as much of an impact on performance as the speaker system itself. Put great speakers in the wrong spot and they won't live up to their potential.

Speaker frequency reproduction is limited to the source material. You can't put in a 50 and get a 100 out. Also the speakers ability to produce sufficient dynamics is related to efficiency of the speakers and available amplifier power. Add overdriven amplifier distortion to a perfectly good speaker and the results are bad...all bad.

Auditioning speakers in big box audiomarts is a waste of time. The acoustics are nothing like your home listening space. Even high end store listening sessions are not likely to have the same results in home due to placement constraints and room treatments.

I'd say the first step is setting a budget limit for the entire system for starters. Then set this budget against your expected goals.I must admit i haven't read all of the post in this threas, just the ones that bring relevance to my response. I don't have enough information to make an informative recommendation. I'd suggest you let this thread die off, and post a new one with your budget, room layout pix and dimensions including volume(cubic ft) and intended uses such as mainly music, home theater, gaming,etc. You may find your budget is insufficient to reach your expected goals, which will ultimately end in dissapointment. Hope this helps.
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post #23 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, my trip to HH tonight was somewhat productive. Did you guys know that HH does their best to price match?

I can get either a Onkyo 606 or a Yamaha 665 (new model) for the same price. (just like the lowest price that I can find online, but I guess I'm not allowed to say?) So which one? I'll put this in the AVR forum also.

I also listened to the quintet III's again, and I still like them. But, I wasn't quite as blown away this time, since I think I expected it. I think I was a little more fact based tonight, instead of running on emotions and wow factor. Does that make sense?

I also heard the Polk 6750's again, with a little better radio station. They weren't as bad as I remembered, a little closer to the Klipsch than I thought the first time I heard both of them.

I also went to BB, but I ran out of time before I could track down the magnolia room, unfortunately.

The bigger speakers weren't hooked up, or at least I couldn't figure out how to turn them up? ha ha So I couldn't listen to the bigger Polk's listed up above. I'll check them out before I do anything though!

Bottom line, I could get one of the receivers listed, the quintet iii's, and a klipsch K10 sub for $1131. The worst part about that though is that I don't think I'd have any room to grow later on. If I get a bigger set of fronts later on, and then push the system to a 7.1, would the new fronts overpower the small quintets?

I'm really swaying towards the high powered fronts and a center right now, then move to a 5.1 later on, then onto a 7.1 in the future.

Also, another question for the avr forum, "If I go with the 606 or the 665, neither one does over 100 watts per channel, wouldn't that be short of the max that the speakers can use?" I'm sure that's not the case, but someone explain it to me.

Thanks!
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post #24 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post




I'm really swaying towards the high powered fronts and a center right now, then move to a 5.1 later on, then onto a 7.1 in the future.!

Now you're getting the idea!

Now you need to explain what high power means to you, and have an understanding of speaker effieciency vs amplifier power. Then you'll be able to start narrowing the field of speakers and receivers that will fit your budget and expectations. This is a good start!
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post #25 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Now you're getting the idea!

Now you need to explain what high power means to you, and have an understanding of speaker effieciency vs amplifier power. Then you'll be able to start narrowing the field of speakers and receivers that will fit your budget and expectations. This is a good start!


Please explain speaker efficiency vs amplifier power for me.
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post #26 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 07:20 PM
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this is my suggestion. If you are looking for good quality and looking to do it only once (which if you come on here often enough, will never happen lol) , I would look into getting better tower speakers (definitive technology BP-7006 $1300/pr or Klipsch wf-34 for 1200/pr) and then save up to buy the center sub and surrounds. In the long run you will be happier with your purchase as your speakers will last you a good 10-20 years.
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post #27 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 07:43 PM
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I dove in two years ago. I have my 5.1 setup in the family room. No dedicated theater.

Denon 2807
Paradigm Mini Monitors for Front Mains
Paradigm ADP 190 Rears
Paradigm CC-290 Center
Paradigm PS-1000 sub

I don't know where that falls in your price range, but it has worked quite well for me. I think the money I spent on the Avia calibration DVD and an SPL meter also helped make it sound GREAT. (to me anyway )

My only regret was not getting bigger mains. Space in the entertainment center was a problem though.
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post #28 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 08:16 PM
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Simplified, a speaker systems ability to reproduce sound to volume is based in it's efficiency. For 1 watt of amplifier power, the resultant volume is expressed in decibels, the higher the 'db' for one watt, the 'louder' the speaker will play for each watt available. Speakers with a higher efficiency need less amplifier current to reach the desired output. An inefficient speaker of say 86db will need a substantially more powerful AVR to reproduce the same output as say a speaker of 92db efficiency..simplified but you get the idea. Now i don't suggest that a 'loud' system should be your goal, but one with dynamic response will surely have more impact on your listening experience. Again, you can use the proper matching of speakers, amplifier power and room acoustics to your advantage against a limited budget, but there will always be tradeoffs.

Larger speakers do not imply greater output or dynamics, so those suggesting 'bigger' main speakers or the so called 'towers' of power need to quantify these suggestions upon making them. Low frequency reproduction is better suited to a subwoofer system, whose larger drivers and specialized ampfifiers are far more efficient at reproducing clean and accurate bass than 6 inch woofers in large ported boxes, only to be crossed above their lower registers and negating the bass response. But 'smallish' bookshelf speakers do need to have near flat response to the crossover point as not to creat nulls or gaps in the overall response so shy away from systems whose -3db response is above 80hz, as this will surely require a higher crossover point resulting in a difficult blend to the subwoofer and bass localization as the subwoofer will be playing material in the range the ear will be able to 'locate', smearing the soundstage and stereo seperation.
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post #29 of 37 Old 03-24-2009, 10:00 PM
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To add to Mayham's response, ideally, a doubling of power will create 3 db of volume. To people, that is perceived as a substantial volume increase. 4X increase of power will create a perceived doubling of volume.

Therefore, if you have speaker A having a nominal rating of 89 dB and speaker B having a rating of 92 dB, for both to have the same sound level you will need to provide approximately 2X the power into Speaker A. It adds up. If both speakers are rated at 20 watts nominal, you will need to provide 30 watts into speaker A to get the same loudness you would get from Speaker B being yielded 25 watts. (the first 20 watts is just to operate the speaker at its designed spec).

Where it matters most are the transients in the music's/soundtracks dynamic range. They can demand 10X that being continuously delivered. In the case of speaker A, running at 30 watts (20 nominal, plus 10 extra X 10) my amp should be able to provide 120 watts. For the more efficient speaker B, all I need to provide is 70 watts (20+5X10) to get the same loudness. Otherwise, I risk clipping.

Efficiency is a feature of the speaker, not the determinate though. The sound/your ears are the determinate. You've gotta like that speaker's sound!!!! Knowing this helps to properly size the amp, but truthfully, putting in 5-6 watts over what the speaker nominally requires is a a loud volume (98 db for Speaker B). There is a table about halfways down on the following link that equates db level to those things we hear in real life.

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2b.html
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post #30 of 37 Old 03-25-2009, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post

Please explain speaker efficiency vs amplifier power for me.

Now you are asking the right questions!

The others gave great detail explanation...I simply use numbers a number chart.

A speakers have ratings that tell you what their SPL is @ 1 meter using 1 Watt.

Example 89dB 1M/1W

So to get 3 more dBs you need to double the Watts.

1W = 89dB
2W = 92dB
4W = 95dB
8W = 98dB
16W = 101dB
32W = 103dB
64W = 106dB
128W = 109dB
256W = 112dB
512W = 115dB

Now here is the kicker....movies/music can have maybe +15dB in dynamics so if your listening level is 90dB, you may hit 105dBs for split seconds so you need enough power to hit 105dBs CLEAN...weaker amps will clip during those split seconds and cause distortion, you may not even realize it actually until you have experienced 100% clip free sound.

The second part is listening distance because the above SPL numbers are based on 1 meter distance (3 feet). If you are sitting 3-4 meters back (9-12 feet) you are going to lose maybe 6 dBs. This means if you want 90dB @ your listening position you are going to need 96dB @ 1m and 111dBs for any dynamics....notice how clipping happens if you playing remotely loud.

This is why I believe its important to find very, very effecient speakers, 89dB speakers require lots of power to kick ass at a normal listening distance...95dB speakers requre much, much less.

Second class will be about the speaker impedance curve

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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