My next purchase? I'm thinking acoustic treatment. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-21-2009, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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My current set-up:

42" Viera Plasma
Onkyo 506
4x Rti4
Csi3
Velodyne VRP-1200

We just recently moved and my new media room is a 10x10x8 room. The acoustics in this room are pretty bad. There's a definite ring/echo that I'm pretty sure is flutter echo.

My question is what should my next upgrade be? I've been looking at acoustic treatment(for mid/high, I can't deal with basstraping yet). Is this the right next step? Would changing the acoustics of my room be a good choice or are my speakers not of a high enough quality for it to be worth it at this point.

I've never used acoustic treatment before so I don't really know what to expect from it.
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post #2 of 19 Old 05-21-2009, 04:52 PM
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if you have echo. better speakers will not help. 10x10 is pretty darn small. i would do ceiling mods.

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post #3 of 19 Old 05-21-2009, 05:58 PM
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If there's carpeting on the floor, ceiling panels won't help slap or flutter echo. Those occur between two hard, parallel surfaces. Kill first reflections from the walls adjacent to the left and right speakers, use panels on the back wall, and I personally like thick panels (work down to 200 Hz at least) behind the front speakers, covering most of the wall.

You can get a small room to sound great, and when watching a movie with a good soundtrack, the walls disappear and the image can be huge. Not in a small LIVE room, though. Best of luck.

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post #4 of 19 Old 05-21-2009, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Paul.

Here's what I'm thinking. Two 2x4ft panels going horizontally at the same height as my speakers on the left and right wall. And two 1x4ft panels on the rear wall mounted vertically. There's a closet door there so one panel on each door.

Each panel is a 2inch thick DMD panels from Acoustimac.

Is this enough to atleast get started and notice some difference? Because I've never used acoustic paneling before I can't justify spending more then that right now with the rest of the family unsure of why I need any in the first place. (They can't hear the split second ring I hear)

I'm hoping this will help the imaging some and help keep the Audyessy auto cal on the receiver from getting so confused with dimensions.

Will this cause an improvement or will I just be disappointed by not treating everything properly.

I don't want to make a $200+ purchase and come up flat.
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post #5 of 19 Old 05-21-2009, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark05 View Post



I don't want to make a $200+ purchase and come up flat.

That's what happens when you buy budget breast implants.

2" is okay, but you need 4"-thick panels behind your front speakers to extend the absorption down lower in frequency. Despite the rantings of the bipolar (speaker) crowd, your speakers should fire out of a dead end of the room. Sounds like you are doing the right thing, and you're to be commended for addressing the room issues. Most enthusiasts do not; they change receivers, speakers, or wire. You have to tame the room first.

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post #6 of 19 Old 05-21-2009, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't worry, I'm slowly making my up to silicon implants.

So my plan right now is treating the side wall and rear wall with just those few panels. Is that a good place to start that will have a tangible benefit or should I just wait until I can get a larger budget and properly treat the room with say ~$500?

Also my uses is music, videogames, tv shows, and movies in that order. If that changes anything.
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 06:04 AM
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See what a few properly placed panels will do first.

I've made this suggestion many times, and people stare at me like I'm nuts...Drag bedspreads, quilts, coats, throw rugs, dropcloths, or any other big pieces of fabric into the room. Drape them over the hard surfaces and give your system a listen, after recalibrating. That will give you an idea of what the room will sound like dead. From there, you can decide how much more sound deadening material you want to hang on the walls.

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post #8 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 08:40 AM
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Why not hang some tapestrys or pictures on the wall, or if you have some VDV racks place them against each wall.

What kind of furnature do you have? stuffed Furnature makes a good sound absorber.

One shall stand... One Shall Fall... - Optimus Prime
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

See what a few properly placed panels will do first.

I've made this suggestion many times, and people stare at me like I'm nuts...Drag bedspreads, quilts, coats, throw rugs, dropcloths, or any other big pieces of fabric into the room. Drape them over the hard surfaces and give your system a listen, after recalibrating. That will give you an idea of what the room will sound like dead. From there, you can decide how much more sound deadening material you want to hang on the walls.

That's actually a very clever idea. This way you get to test out the results, in your room, with your equipment, and with little effort, before spending any money. It isn't often you can find those benefits in the audiophile world.
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark05 View Post

I don't want to make a $200+ purchase and come up flat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That's what happens when you buy budget breast implants.

Now that's a funny joke, right there.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #11 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark05 View Post

Thanks Paul.

Here's what I'm thinking. Two 2x4ft panels going horizontally at the same height as my speakers on the left and right wall. And two 1x4ft panels on the rear wall mounted vertically. There's a closet door there so one panel on each door.

Each panel is a 2inch thick DMD panels from Acoustimac.

Is this enough to atleast get started and notice some difference?

Not Paul.... but yes, that's a good start, and those Acoustimac panels look like good value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark05 View Post

Because I've never used acoustic paneling before I can't justify spending more then that right now with the rest of the family unsure of why I need any in the first place. (They can't hear the split second ring I hear)

I'm hoping this will help the imaging some and help keep the Audyessy auto cal on the receiver from getting so confused with dimensions.

Will this cause an improvement or will I just be disappointed by not treating everything properly.

Your next goal should be some treatments on the wall behind the speakers. They can be made to be aesthetically pleasing:
http://www.acoustimac.com/index.php?...id=13&Itemid=1

Craig

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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

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post #12 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 09:26 AM
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Dark05, I had the same issue as you. Small, square room, with tons of echo and terrible acoustics. What I did to fix the issue was spend some money at GIK acoustics. I got three GIK 242 panels. The first two I put at first reflection points next to my right and left speaker. The third I put on a side wall where I was getting echo in one of my seating positions. Lastly, I bought two tri-traps that I put in my front and back ceiling corners.

Here are some pictures of my small room and panels.

Right front panel:


Back Tri-trap:


Side panel:

Lurker extraordinare!

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post #13 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Now that's a funny joke, right there. [IMG]http://www.*****************/trafficreport/img/3721/k09f0423lglc/b.gif[/IMG]

kinda funny
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 09:48 AM
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If a HT is setup in a basement with a drop ceiling and carpet, would room treatments still be recommended?
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post #15 of 19 Old 05-22-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetRoe View Post

If a HT is setup in a basement with a drop ceiling and carpet, would room treatments still be recommended?

Yes. You still want to treat the early reflections off the walls. Read about a Reflection Free Zone here:
http://www.realtraps.com/rfz.htm

Also, you still need bass traps. They should be placed in as many corners, (wall/ceiling, wall/wall and wall/floor), as well as tri-corners, (wall/floor/floor and wall/ceiling/ceiling), as possible.

A dropped ceiling can be made to act as a large bass trap. Use a good, thick acoustic panel, drop it below the joists somewhat and stuff the joist spaces with fiberglass insulation. I used Capaul Open Plan ceiling tiles.
http://www.certainteed.com/products/...-series/314118
(I used the "Black Nubby" which has a light reflectivity coefficient of 0.02, improving the "black hole effect for my video as well as improving the audio.)

Finally, place treatments behind the front speakers to reduce the SBIR, (Speaker Boundary Interface Response).

Craig

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post #16 of 19 Old 05-25-2009, 01:15 AM - Thread Starter
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wow, I tried putting up a mattress on each side wall covering the first reflections of the front stage. I recalibrate the system and what a difference! I'm some cases I couldn't hear much difference, but I replayed some demo scenes such as the base attack on transformers and I was hearing details I never heard before! Granted this was only occasionally, but still.

Makes me not want to take down the mattresses...to bad that means I have no where to sleep.
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post #17 of 19 Old 05-26-2009, 12:08 AM
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I put off room treatments for a long time, and if I'm being honest I never REALLY believed that they'd make as much of an impact as people said. I was totally wrong. I've since ended up adding about 20 pieces from GIK acoustics and I couldn't be happier.
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post #18 of 19 Old 05-29-2009, 08:34 PM
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I put off room treatments for a long time, and if I'm being honest I never REALLY believed that they'd make as much of an impact as people said. I was totally wrong. I've since ended up adding about 20 pieces from GIK acoustics and I couldn't be happier.

Holy crap 20 pieces??? Is it uncomfortably dead in your room now?

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post #19 of 19 Old 05-30-2009, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
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Holy crap 20 pieces??? Is it uncomfortably dead in your room now?

Oh, heck no! I ended up with this many when I was in a smaller room, cause I was reading that smaller rooms typically needed more treatment than larger ones. When I moved, I took the treatments out first before I took down my gear, and to hear my music in the same room without the panels was shocking. All of a sudden things sounded incredibly thin and lifeless compared to what I was used to. I went back to Maggies several months ago, so the only difference now is that I keep the front wall a bit more live (i.e. fewer panels), with the side and rear walls receiving most of the treatment.

I can assure you that everyone who's experienced my system will tell you that things sound pretty darn good. Movies have nice crisp, clear dialogue....music is dynamic with a wide, deep soundstage....the bass is tight and impactful....etc, etc.

Properly designed and implemented room treatments are the real deal!
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