Why don't we use Pro Monitors in our Homes? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Seems reasonable. I found this last year on Audio Physic:

The spatial information relating to a sound source is mainly detected by the brain in the first five milliseconds, everything which follows will at first be ignored. Sound travels at 1.7 metres (5.6 ft) in five milliseconds. If the sound of a reflection has to travel 1.7 m (5.6 ft) more than the direct sound of the source, then it will have no influence on our spatial perception.

At the time I read that I already had my mains located about 5ft from the side walls and toed-in. So I experimented with placing absorption material at the first reflective points of the walls. Sat in the sweet spot and could tell no difference in the sound with or w/o the absorption.

The Audio Physic's statement is too simplistic.

It is true that humans use the first arrival (the direct sound) to localize the direction of the source, a perceptual phenomena known as the precedence effect. However, the later reflections are still audible and can affect the perceived spatial extent of the source - its distance, apparent width, spaciousness, envelopment - attributes that depend on the reflections' arrival time, direction, level, spectrum, and the physical characteristics of source signal (impulsive versus steady-state). Reflections can also affect the loudness, timbre, and intelligibility of a sound source depending on the physical characteristics of the signal and sound field.

Floyd Toole and I have written a lot about the detection of reflections in typical listening rooms. This is a long topic that perhaps I will cover in an upcoming series of blog articles.

Update: I've added links to two AES Journal papers written by Toole & Olive that talk about the audibility of reflections in typical rooms. You can download these for free, courtesy of Harman International

The Detection of Reflections in Typical Rooms by Sean Olive & Floyd Toole

Loudspeakers and Rooms for Sound Reproduction—A Scientific Review by Floyd Toole

Cheers,
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post #362 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonmeister2008 View Post

The Audio Physic's statement is too simplistic.

It is true that humans use the first arrival (the direct sound) to localize the direction of the source, a perceptual phenomena known as the precedence effect. However, the later reflections are still audible and can affect the perceived spatial extent of the source - its distance, apparent width, spaciousness, envelopment
Floyd Toole and I have written a lot about the detection of reflections in typical listening rooms. This is a long topic that perhaps I will cover in an upcoming series of blog articles.

I have read those articles in the past. And I do know that there will always be reflections as long as there are boundrys for the signal to hit. Unless a room has been made completely dead.

But I was thinking more along the lines of the comparisions of the sound between having speakers (main L/R) very close to walls (imo, too close) or a fair distance away from those walls.
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post #363 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 10:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

is there such thing as pro speakers? i think not, it is just a marketing strategy.[IMG]http://***************/9/P/i.jpg[/IMG]

Of course there is but it probably is partly a strategy to get people thinking this rocks..I'd say pro would be used for huge events & they'd be pretty sore on the pockets
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post #364 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

i was responding between the difference speakers used in a recording studio and the home.

Got it.....so the "Pro" in front of the speaker is more about marketing to the professional studios, mixing guys, etc? I can see that but I also think these design may meet specific goals required by studios, mixing people, etc.

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post #365 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 11:29 AM
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There are plenty of speakers meant for the "professional" audio enviroment which were adapted and sold as Home speakers in speaker shops, a lot of JBL speakers from the 70's and 80's were just that.

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post #366 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Studio speakers are not designed to cast the type of soundstage most people want in larger rooms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingo Sanders View Post

Can you provide any detail on current industry standard design protocols for studio speakers? I'd like to see for myself precisely how they differ from the current industry standard design protocols for consumer speakers.

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post #367 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Teller View Post

So this has been bugging me:

The sound engineers, the mixers, the guys in the recording studios who are actually putting the recordings together - they use Professional Monitor speakers. Typically self-powered, bookshelf sized speakers from companies like Genelec, Focal Professional, KRK, Tannoy, etc.

Many of these companies also have "consumer" speakers, but there is typically a pretty clear distinction between the "Pro" speakers and the "consumer" speakers.

What are the real differences?

If the professionals who are actually making the music recordings are using certain speakers, why do we not use the exact same speakers in our homes?

It isn't price, because professional speakers often cost a lot less than "consumer" speakers and they are usually self-powered to boot!

I would just like to understand what is going on here. Do "consumer" speakers really sound different from "Pro" speakers? If so, in what way do they sound different and why would we want a different sound than what is actually being used to make the recordings?

Thanks for any enlightenment

Jon

To put it simple, they sound like crap. No Pro monitor I have ever heard would touch my maggies. Huge sound stage, depth. not only can I tell if a piano is used I can tell what year and model with maggies, that will not be produces with studio monitors.
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post #368 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fj6474 View Post

To put it simple, they sound like crap. No Pro monitor I have ever heard would touch my maggies. Huge sound stage, depth. not only can I tell if a piano is used I can tell what year and model with maggies, that will not be produces with studio monitors.

Year and model. Is that all? You can't tell the color finish of the piano? I can tell all those things AND what type of car the pianist drives from mine.
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post #369 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by markwriter View Post

Year and model. Is that all? You can't tell the color finish of the piano? I can tell all those things AND what type of car the pianist drives from mine.

WOW. you have me beat. I need to come take a listen.
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post #370 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 03:08 PM
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I want Speakers so loud they blow womens clothes off.

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post #371 of 513 Old 07-05-2009, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I want Speakers so loud they blow womens clothes off.

Those were Martin Logan's in the Italian Job if my memory serves me right. I think you need something from Meyer Sound or one of Tom Danley's brilliant/insane creations

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post #372 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

Those were Martin Logan's in the Italian Job if my memory serves me right. I think you need something from Meyer Sound or one of Tom Danley's brilliant/insane creations

don't forget JTR & Seaton

All this noise about noise.
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post #373 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

don't forget JTR & Seaton

lol, danley is unique...what is unique about jtr or seaton?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #374 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

Those were Martin Logan's in the Italian Job if my memory serves me right. I think you need something from Meyer Sound or one of Tom Danley's brilliant/insane creations

My ears are ringing now.

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post #375 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 10:13 AM
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lol, danley is unique...what is unique about jtr or seaton?

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic.

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post #376 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by otk View Post

don't forget JTR & Seaton

I can't seeing as how I'm in love with Mark's designs. And JTR has some amazing equipment at fantastic prices.

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post #377 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

lol, danley is unique...what is unique about jtr or seaton?

How about you do a little research and find out?

John

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post #378 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fj6474 View Post

To put it simple, they sound like crap. No Pro monitor I have ever heard would touch my maggies. Huge sound stage, depth. not only can I tell if a piano is used I can tell what year and model with maggies, that will not be produces with studio monitors.

..and what pro monitors have you heard?

What maggies do you have as I have been totally unimpressed with every Magnepan I have ever heard? Most of the have had a very narrow soundstage and tended to beam fairly badly.

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post #379 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fj6474 View Post

To put it simple, they sound like crap. No Pro monitor I have ever heard would touch my maggies. Huge sound stage, depth. not only can I tell if a piano is used I can tell what year and model with maggies, that will not be produces with studio monitors.

Its interesting that you post saying the Maggies have a huge sound stage since I believe their off axis response isnt very good.

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post #380 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fj6474 View Post

To put it simple, they sound like crap. No Pro monitor I have ever heard would touch my maggies. Huge sound stage, depth. not only can I tell if a piano is used I can tell what year and model with maggies, that will not be produces with studio monitors.

Sounds like you have a bottle of wine or a couple six-packs before you listen to any speaker

David Budo
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post #381 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 12:38 PM
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audiophiles have better ears than recording engineers

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
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post #382 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

audiophiles have better ears than recording engineers

I'd like to see a study on that, because it doesn't sound right.

On a side note:

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen sound designed on Meyer Sound HD-1s.
www.meyersound.com

So if you want to hear the same speakers when watching RotF at home, them grab 5-7 of these bad boys

David Budo
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post #383 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

I'd like to see a study on that, because it doesn't sound right.

well maybe not "better ears" but they do listen for different types of things in the recording

an audiophile is listening for what make and model a piano is and a recording engineer is making sure the piano's level is proper and other things


All this noise about noise.
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post #384 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by otk View Post

well maybe not "better ears" but they do listen for different types of things in the recording

an audiophile is listening for what make and model a piano is and a recording engineer is making sure the piano's level is proper and other things


Ha haa! Ok, if that's what you want to believe.

David Budo
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post #385 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

audiophiles have better ears than recording engineers

Warning....Sarcasm ahead


Audiophiles are pedantic individuals who look at price tags, brand names to make sure they have quality sound then they exaggerate online about how different product A is from Product B when the real difference is sometimes nothing but other times its just a -3dB/+3dB in a small frequence range that can be corrected with proper level matching (Its called an EQ ).

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post #386 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:28 PM
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Nice Penngray!

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post #387 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

Ha haa! Ok, if that's what you want to believe.

an audiophile is listening for "velvety strings", a recording engineer is making sure the strings can be heard over the percussion section


All this noise about noise.
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post #388 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

an audiophile is listening for "velvety strings", a recording engineer is making sure the strings can be heard over the percussion section


They also hear everything before you hear it. Thus everything you hear is a result of their ears and decisions of how loud each detail is

David Budo
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post #389 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

They also hear everything before you hear it. Thus everything you hear is a result of their ears and decisions of how loud each detail is

some of them use headphones

All this noise about noise.
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post #390 of 513 Old 07-06-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

lol, danley is unique...what is unique about jtr or seaton?

Your signature:

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...there are not nearly as many dumb questions as there are truly stupid people, which is a bit of an irony.

Well, you just added to the "dumb question" list. Please do some research so you don't also add to the "truly stupid people" list.

Craig

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