**The Official Seaton Sound Speaker Thread** - Page 37 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1081 of 1135 Old 12-14-2015, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
They are coming along nicely now and we've been doing a lot of crossover development for the Spark XC1 to be fully passive for use with conventional amplifiers or receivers, no DSP needed and of course a good deal less expensive than a powered version.

One minor tip now that you have the 8C's with your SubMersive. With more headroom in the mains, experiment with reducing how hot you have the subwoofer running and instead listen that much louder. IOW, reduce the sub level by ~3dB and raise the listening level ~3dB. You might have to do some tinkering, but you might find that you get much more impact and exciting dynamics with more of the detailing upper frequencies to go with the low end power.



Have a link to this Sunday's GTG?
I actually do this with my setup at home. I found the details were being lossed, so I raised the mains level and everything lined up nicely.

We didn't do a thread for it. It was very simple. We had my old Triple 8's vs the DIY Soundgroup Fusion 12's vs the Coherent Audio Model 15's (large tower with a Radian 15" coax and beryllium compression driver, rear ported). All two channel crossed to subs at 80hz with an Audyssey calibration for each.

I was in charge of the playlist.

Music:

Rebbecca Pigeon - Spanish Harlem
Lord of the Rings - May It Be (raw recording)
Bob Marley - One Love
Dire Straits - Money for Nothing (SACD rip)
Pink Floyd - Money (SACD rip)
The Eagles - Hotel California (SACD rip)
A dynamic drum recording
Phil Collins - Against All Odds (DTS MA concert)
Queen - Love Of My Life (live)
John Williams - Jurassic Park ochestral recording

Movies:

Hero - shelf scene
Open Range - Shootout
War of the Worlds - Pod Emergence

Everything timed to about 30 minutes.

Needless to say, the Fusion 12's had the best clarity and soundstage of the lot. They were the easiest to listen to, with equal or better details than the other offerings. They inspired Nikko and I to go DIY with the SEOS 15, DNA360, and AE TD15M. Waveguide and CD ordered already. Josh with be building our cabinets.

If I had the funds, I'd have a full Seaton setup. I'll just have to try and get close with DIY, MiniDSP, and Dirac Live until I can get something Mark makes.

Mark, have you thought about using a beryllium compression driver with your speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
I'm sorry too! Around this time of the year i'm pulling too many 60+ hour work weeks and weekends become busy with family events and work around the house. Audyssey like usual wants them to be full range (I imagine they are gaining some low end being close to the front wall) but I decided to cross them at 80hz, though I think a fair case can be made for 60hz if i was focused on music. Not sure if by design, room interaction, fluke, but the Cat 8's blend a lot better with the subM than the CX-15's did.

I'm going to try to get the 8's to nikko's place sometime early next year.
I hear you, bud. I'll be there with food and drinks. Nikko will have the Sentinels running by then. Should be a great comparison.
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post #1082 of 1135 Old 12-14-2015, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
So are you still going to do a powered version of the sparks or are you just going with passive now?

I took your advice last night (I haven't been on avs as much due to being busy) and i think the future wife likes it better this way for sure. Turned down the bass 4db (from running 7db hot) so now i'm only 3db hot. It definitely does make it a bit easier to listen to at the louder volumes, as the wifey let the volume increase from -22db to -18db. So I think she might be "bass limited" .
I find most of the opposite sex is uncomfortable with bass we're comfortable with. Seems to strike a cord in their fear response.

Last edited by Dbuudo07; 12-14-2015 at 04:10 PM.
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post #1083 of 1135 Old 12-14-2015, 06:22 PM
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I find most of the opposite sex is uncomfortable with bass we're comfortable with. Seems to strike a cord in their fear response.
It most definitely does. I'm almost a little fearful of Nikko's setup just based off what I know about it. He has become a little bit obsessed with LFE, the basshead disease spreads. How would you say Dirac compares to Audyssey? I'm tempted to move in that direction in the future.
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post #1084 of 1135 Old 12-14-2015, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
It most definitely does. I'm almost a little fearful of Nikko's setup just based off what I know about it. He has become a little bit obsessed with LFE, the basshead disease spreads. How would you say Dirac compares to Audyssey? I'm tempted to move in that direction in the future.
Nikko's Marty's are incredible. Really tight and headroom up the wazoo. I managed to convince him to run them flat for the listening tests so we could better focus on the speakers.

From the graphs I've seen, Dirac gives the user the ability to shape their response with almost unlimited flexibility. Its greatest benefit is the impulse response improvements. That's what I'm really interested in. Tighten up my sound.
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post #1085 of 1135 Old 12-15-2015, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
Nikko's Marty's are incredible. Really tight and headroom up the wazoo. I managed to convince him to run them flat for the listening tests so we could better focus on the speakers.

From the graphs I've seen, Dirac gives the user the ability to shape their response with almost unlimited flexibility. Its greatest benefit is the impulse response improvements. That's what I'm really interested in. Tighten up my sound.
He must have been dying running a flat response given how hot he normally has them run.

The impulse response control is certainly unique to Dirac as far as I know (audyssey doesn't touch it), I wonder if it's actually audible or not.
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post #1086 of 1135 Old 12-15-2015, 11:39 AM
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The way we had them running during the GTG, there was plenty of bass for me.

Seems to be one of the contributing factors to it being favoured over Audyssey when I've read comparisons. Mark has had experience with Dirac, I believe. I hope he'll comment on it when he gets a chance.
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post #1087 of 1135 Old 12-16-2015, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rramacha View Post
I am running a Marantz AV8802A with this.

Cheers
Just picked up a 8802A as Well. These are for a second system however. I'm still using the Anthem D2 in the dedicated theater space
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post #1088 of 1135 Old 12-16-2015, 09:17 AM
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^ Nice room! Gotta get some Submersives in there, or some F18's, to complete the family.
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post #1089 of 1135 Old 12-17-2015, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
I actually do this with my setup at home. I found the details were being lossed, so I raised the mains level and everything lined up nicely.

We didn't do a thread for it. It was very simple. We had my old Triple 8's vs the DIY Soundgroup Fusion 12's vs the Coherent Audio Model 15's (large tower with a Radian 15" coax and beryllium compression driver, rear ported). All two channel crossed to subs at 80hz with an Audyssey calibration for each.

I was in charge of the playlist.

Music:

Rebbecca Pigeon - Spanish Harlem
Lord of the Rings - May It Be (raw recording)
Bob Marley - One Love
Dire Straits - Money for Nothing (SACD rip)
Pink Floyd - Money (SACD rip)
The Eagles - Hotel California (SACD rip)
A dynamic drum recording
Phil Collins - Against All Odds (DTS MA concert)
Queen - Love Of My Life (live)
John Williams - Jurassic Park ochestral recording

Movies:

Hero - shelf scene
Open Range - Shootout
War of the Worlds - Pod Emergence

Everything timed to about 30 minutes.
Did you have all those burned to disc? If so hook me up lol
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post #1090 of 1135 Old 12-17-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Did you have all those burned to disc? If so hook me up lol
They're all files on my hard drive. The timing was manual, because there was too much noise and compression. I don't know why. The program I bought must be garbage. When we get together in a month or so, bring a USB stick with 5GB free and I'll load you up. If you have more space, I'll give you a crap load of demo material. I think I have over 100GB of demo clips and demo music in all formats.
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post #1091 of 1135 Old 12-17-2015, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
They're all files on my hard drive. The timing was manual, because there was too much noise and compression. I don't know why. The program I bought must be garbage. When we get together in a month or so, bring a USB stick with 5GB free and I'll load you up. If you have more space, I'll give you a crap load of demo material. I think I have over 100GB of demo clips and demo music in all formats.
Ah I thought maybe you had created a special demo disc somehow. I have a lot of that content already individually. I have a 5x3TB NAS that I store everything on, which is then hooked up to a laptop operating as an HTPC that passes a bitstream to the receiver. I run Kodi to manage the media itself, and like a lazy bum sit on my couch with my shield 2 tablet to control everything (Yatse app to control kodi, and the denon app to control the receiver).
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post #1092 of 1135 Old 12-17-2015, 07:16 PM
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Nice! I simply have my hard drives connected to my Oppo, which I control through the Oppo app.
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post #1093 of 1135 Old 01-20-2016, 02:02 PM
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Just bumping this back up, one because Mark's speakers deserve the bump, but mostly because I realized that I never posted back when my repaired amp came in.

Mark and Brian (Speakerpower) were very helpful in getting the amplifier back to me all fixed up. The removal/replacement process was very easy (although I wished my electric drill was charged, cuz my wrists were getting tired of all that screwing, lol). Everything sounds great again and...that's why I haven't posted back in here. You know, I just went back to enjoying these things and forgot to mention how well Mark and Brian supported me in returning that channel to working condition.
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post #1094 of 1135 Old 01-21-2016, 06:35 PM
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Hi Guys,

Can someone please confirm it's ok to power the CATs on and off directly from the mains or via an intermediate power conditioner/filter?

My CAT12s are sitting behind an AT screen, and its a PITA to keep lifting the screen to turn them off from the rear amp.

I tried searching for this info, but found it difficult to find a definitive answer.

SEATON CAT12 | JTR CAP S2 + 4 x Dayton RSS460HO | 2 x Behringer inuke 6000DSP | Behringer FBQ | 4 x RA CX8 | 4 x JBL 8320
Yamaha RX-A3040 | Oppo 93
BENQ W1070
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post #1095 of 1135 Old 01-21-2016, 07:38 PM
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I use a NEMA size 2 contactor to control the power to my three Cats & two SubMs on a 240VAC 40Amp circuit.
It is controlled by a NEMA size 0 contactor that controls my 120VAC equipment. It in turn is controlled by a solid-
state relay that is actuated by the 12VDC signal from my Integra.

--Carl
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post #1096 of 1135 Old 01-22-2016, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
I use a NEMA size 2 contactor to control the power to my three Cats & two SubMs on a 240VAC 40Amp circuit.
It is controlled by a NEMA size 0 contactor that controls my 120VAC equipment. It in turn is controlled by a solid-
state relay that is actuated by the 12VDC signal from my Integra.
240V 40Amp circuit!!!

Geez.

Thanks for the feedback.

SEATON CAT12 | JTR CAP S2 + 4 x Dayton RSS460HO | 2 x Behringer inuke 6000DSP | Behringer FBQ | 4 x RA CX8 | 4 x JBL 8320
Yamaha RX-A3040 | Oppo 93
BENQ W1070
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post #1097 of 1135 Old 01-22-2016, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
I use a NEMA size 2 contactor to control the power to my three Cats & two SubMs on a 240VAC 40Amp circuit.
It is controlled by a NEMA size 0 contactor that controls my 120VAC equipment. It in turn is controlled by a solid-
state relay that is actuated by the 12VDC signal from my Integra.
240V 40Amp circuit!!!

Geez.

Thanks for the feedback.

SEATON CAT12 | JTR CAP S2 + 4 x Dayton RSS460HO | 2 x Behringer inuke 6000DSP | Behringer FBQ | 4 x RA CX8 | 4 x JBL 8320
Yamaha RX-A3040 | Oppo 93
BENQ W1070
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post #1098 of 1135 Old 02-02-2016, 06:05 AM
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If I am not mistaken, the Catalyst 8C's stand has a locking mechanism to keep the speaker in place. What about 12C's stand? If it doesn't have a locking mechanism is there anything preventing the speaker from being knocked over?
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post #1099 of 1135 Old 02-06-2016, 07:00 AM
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So I have a general questions on Active speakers. I read this in an interview with Andy Payor (Lockport Technologies). He says:

"I believe the performance gains when going completely active do not outweigh some of the benefits of properly executed passive crossovers in the mid- and high-frequency sections of the loudspeaker, and therefore have ultimately not yet been achieved. Without the use of sophisticated DSP (and its sonic consequences), it is difficult, within the context of an active crossover, to implement some of the subtler curve shaping that is necessary to overcome cabinet diffraction issues and driver nonlinearities. This same curve shaping is relatively easy to implement in the context of a passive crossover, and without signal degradation. Still, I believe these limitations will be overcome in the future, and that the ultimate loudspeaker will comprise a fully active, multi-driver solution."

I thought one of the benefits of active speakers was that "curve shaping" was easier to model and implement in the digital domain. Is that not the case? He also says "these limitations will be overcome in the future". Any thoughts on what that means? 3 years? 10 years?

Thanks.
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post #1100 of 1135 Old 02-06-2016, 07:24 PM
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That's nonsense. Digital just gives more tools and less distortion than analog signal processing.
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post #1101 of 1135 Old 02-12-2016, 09:54 AM
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So, more off-topic, but I think my newborn baby girl likes my Cat12s, lol. When she seems almost inconsolable, I put on some tunes, and she quiets down. Daddy's little girl, :-D.

So, Mark, your speakers are newborn approved, haha! Fortunately, this also adds to their wife acceptance factor, and I get to listen to tunes more often, too; win, win!
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post #1102 of 1135 Old 02-13-2016, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
That's nonsense. Digital just gives more tools and less distortion than analog signal processing.
I don't know enough about this topic, hence the question. The original quote was made by someone very knowledgeable so was curious about the rationale.
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post #1103 of 1135 Old 02-13-2016, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
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I don't know enough about this topic, hence the question. The original quote was made by someone very knowledgeable so was curious about the rationale.
It's possible to good sounding or bad sounding signal processing, whether analog or digital. There are certain kinds of bad sounding processing that can only be achieved with digital. Those are sometimes described as sounding digitally processed, but they aren't inherent in using digital processing.
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post #1104 of 1135 Old 03-05-2016, 02:53 AM
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Hi,


Need some help here.


Suddenly one of my Cat 12 sound muffle. Not clear. I power off and after 15 minutes I power up it has a "POP" sound.


The other 2 Cat 12 do not have that sound. May I know is the driver problem or Amp problem.


Thanks
Marcus
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post #1105 of 1135 Old 03-05-2016, 03:09 AM
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Hi,


I manage to use the test tone and found that the Mid seem to be not working.


Behind the Cat 12 there are 3 buttons and I believe they are mute for HF/MF/LF.




The moment I mute the 2nd button that should be MF and the test tone sound the same as the spoil speaker.


So is this the driver or amp problem.


Thanks
Marcus
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post #1106 of 1135 Old 03-05-2016, 04:11 PM
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Hi Mark

Will you be able to help.

Thanks
Marcus
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post #1107 of 1135 Old 03-05-2016, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Gan View Post
Hi Mark

Will you be able to help.

Thanks
Marcus
I an not Mark, but I have three early Cats which had switch problems.
On the defective unit, I would suggest operating the "Mute"
switches multiple times effectively cleaning its contacts.

--Carl

Last edited by calentz; 03-05-2016 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Change of wording
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post #1108 of 1135 Old 03-05-2016, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
I an not Mark, but I have three early Cats which had switch problems.
On the defective unit, I would suggest operating the "Mute"
switches multiple times effectively cleaning its contacts.
Hi Carl

Thanks it's work.

You have a nice weekend.

Marcus
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post #1109 of 1135 Old 03-06-2016, 05:27 PM
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Hi Carl,


Haha, problem not solve yet.


When the loud "PoP" sound gone when power up I thought problem I solve.


Ok I use the test tone to press the Ch 1 ,2 and 3 one at a time.


When I press 1 & 3 it work normal the HF & LF on and off.


However when I press the ch 2 no different. Always off unable to on it.


So need to know is driver and amps problem.


Is switch the driver from another Cat 12 is the only way to find out or is that a reset function for the Speaker Power Amp.


Cheers
Marcus
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post #1110 of 1135 Old 03-07-2016, 12:16 AM
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Hello,
I feel that it is an amp problem. I would contact Mark for repair. The amps can be Xswaped
to verify that the problem goes with the amp.

--Carl
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