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post #30151 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Yes it is! I got to hear it in Carps room. Lots of fun
I had a group of "kids" I used to coach when they were in high school over to the house last night and one of the things we did was watch john wick. One of them had the brilliant idea that we had to drink every time he kills someone, haha.

I didn't trip a breaker at the KC HT tour during the club scene but I tripped one last night showing off for some college kids!

We were up past 3 and it got a little crazy so I made them all spend the night. Wow mortal combat on the ps 4 is brutal. I've got to get into gaming a little bit someday... These games now days are a lot of fun. I sound very old.
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post #30152 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
I'm comparing the DSS Mariana to the OS...trying to keep certain controls equal between switching...and verify some things...

On the amp gain, both use speakerpower 4000w amps...if both are set to an equal gain value, ie -8db, are both receiving equal power?

I'm changing sub levels manually just short of hearing distortion. Also, I'm changing distance levels per switch.

btw fyi: john wick club scene is just demo bliss
Gains are adjustable in the on board DSP and each will have dramatically different EQ. The gains are only useful in adjusting the level of each sub. Any limiting either may or may not use will also impact the useful levels you will get from each sub. There's a bit more to than just a driver and a box.
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post #30153 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
I'm comparing the DSS Mariana to the OS...trying to keep certain controls equal between switching...and verify some things...

On the amp gain, both use speakerpower 4000w amps...if both are set to an equal gain value, ie -8db, are both receiving equal power?

I'm changing sub levels manually just short of hearing distortion. Also, I'm changing distance levels per switch.

btw fyi: john wick club scene is just demo bliss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Gains are adjustable in the on board DSP and each will have dramatically different EQ. The gains are only useful in adjusting the level of each sub. Any limiting either may or may not use will also impact the useful levels you will get from each sub. There's a bit more to than just a driver and a box.
Well it depends on whether you are trying to level match or gain match really. Right now you seem to want to gain match, so yes, you are doing it right, but with the two drastically different styles of systems, I would go more for making sure AVR sub trims are around the same, and level match using the speakerpower amps. That way you are sending them the same voltage out of the AVR. Just make sure you don't go into the positive territory on the sub-out from the avr or you could stand to clip the input of the speakerpower.
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post #30154 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Gains are adjustable in the on board DSP and each will have dramatically different EQ. The gains are only useful in adjusting the level of each sub. Any limiting either may or may not use will also impact the useful levels you will get from each sub. There's a bit more to than just a driver and a box.

I understood this be the case, just wanted confirmation...so understanding it correctly, with the dsp/eq settings different set by a manufacturer, equal power isn't delivered at a set amp gain with identical amps. I was wondering this thinking I could eliminate one factor by keeping it a constant, if equal. For example, sub A at -8db/0db (amp gain/avr sub level) to come close to sub B at -8db/-12db. With distance levels set per sub, Sub B is still overpowering.

I do realize measuring tools are truly required, but for now just trying closer to leveling the playing field so I can make an equal comparison with just changes to my avr and the sub amps.

Without measuring tools, how would you set up both subs to compare? For majority of people, I would think run Audyssey for each and go from there?

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post #30155 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
I understood this be the case, just wanted confirmation...so understanding it correctly, with the dsp/eq settings different set by a manufacturer, equal power isn't delivered at a set amp gain with identical amps. I was wondering this thinking I could eliminate one factor by keeping it a constant, if equal. For example, sub A at -8db/0db (amp gain/avr sub level) to come close to sub B at -8db/-12db. With distance levels set per sub, Sub B is still overpowering.
Stated for clarity... The volume dial has no correlation to output level or power between these 2 subs.

Quote:
I do realize measuring tools are truly required, but for now just trying closer to leveling the playing field so I can make an equal comparison with just changes to my avr and the sub amps.

Without measuring tools, how would you set up both subs to compare? For majority of people, I would think run Audyssey for each and go from there?
Depends on what you want to compare. Audyssey will do different things with each. The ideal way to compare is manually measure and similarly match response curve and level of the curve.

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post #30156 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I had a group of "kids" I used to coach when they were in high school over to the house last night and one of the things we did was watch john wick. One of them had the brilliant idea that we had to drink every time he kills someone, haha.

I didn't trip a breaker at the KC HT tour during the club scene but I tripped one last night showing off for some college kids!

We were up past 3 and it got a little crazy so I made them all spend the night. Wow mortal combat on the ps 4 is brutal. I've got to get into gaming a little bit someday... These games now days are a lot of fun. I sound very old.
I loved video games growing up. Zelda and Mario we're my favs. My son then started to get into gaming and he got into CounterStrike. Which paved the way for Call of Duty. I would watch him for hours. He got really good and I mean really good. He was accused of cheating all the time LOL. Then he started getting recruited by big clubs. I tried playing but I have just found I like watching anymore. I just don't have the hand eye coordination to play these fast game anymore. I am just happy these online FPS game were not around when I was a kid. I would have never left the house. We have the Xbox One and Wii U here. I just wish I could play them.
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post #30157 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I loved video games growing up. Zelda and Mario we're my favs. My son then started to get into gaming and he got into CounterStrike. Which paved the way for Call of Duty. I would watch him for hours. He got really good and I mean really good. He was accused of cheating all the time LOL. Then he started getting recruited by big clubs. I tried playing but I have just found I like watching anymore. I just don't have the hand eye coordination to play these fast game anymore. I am just happy these online FPS game were not around when I was a kid. I would have never left the house. We have the Xbox One and Wii U here. I just wish I could play them.
Yep, I'd rather watch than play too. We've got the x box 1 upstairs but I never play. It was fun having the PS 4 hooked up in the basement, the sound was very nice and it looks great on the big screen.
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post #30158 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
I understood this be the case, just wanted confirmation...so understanding it correctly, with the dsp/eq settings different set by a manufacturer, equal power isn't delivered at a set amp gain with identical amps. I was wondering this thinking I could eliminate one factor by keeping it a constant, if equal. For example, sub A at -8db/0db (amp gain/avr sub level) to come close to sub B at -8db/-12db. With distance levels set per sub, Sub B is still overpowering.

I do realize measuring tools are truly required, but for now just trying closer to leveling the playing field so I can make an equal comparison with just changes to my avr and the sub amps.

Without measuring tools, how would you set up both subs to compare? For majority of people, I would think run Audyssey for each and go from there?
Also don't forget that both drivers have different sensitivity, so that can make a fairly big difference as well, especially on the same amp if you just gain matching on the amp.
Personally, I would take audyssey completely off, level match them as best as possible with REW and start making graphs. Play both drivers, then turn audyssey on and EQ to how you like to listen and go from there. Doing an A/B knowing what driver is playing completely negates the SQ effect IMO.
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post #30159 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 04:46 PM
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Speaking of John Wick, I just went out and watched John Wick and man, that club scene has got to be the goto disc for any system and every GTG! Every bullet just pounded me. I have said many times that I don't need subs and I don't! A pair of 215RT's in a small theater can achieve big bass! I actually felt like I had Crowson's! I am more impressed than ever with 215RT's. Just amazing. Cannot wait to get the missing link tomorrow, my 215RM! Going to be even more impact! LOL Having a small theater does have it's advantages!

One thing I noticed about the John Wick bluray is the audio seems to be out of sync? It looked like a cheap Kung Fu movie! Lips are moving after they have talked LOL. It seems like it is about a half a second delay? Anybody else notice this?
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post #30160 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Speaking of John Wick, I just went out and watched John Wick and man, that club scene has got to be the goto disc for any system and every GTG! Every bullet just pounded me. I have said many times that I don't need subs and I don't! A pair of 215RT's in a small theater can achieve big bass! I actually felt like I had Crowson's! I am more impressed than ever with 215RT's. Just amazing. Cannot wait to get the missing link tomorrow, my 215RM! Going to be even more impact! LOL Having a small does have it's advantages!

One thing I noticed about the John Wick bluray is the audio seems to be out of sync? It looked like a cheap Kung Fu movie! Lips are moving after they have talked LOL. It seems like it is about a half a second delay? Anybody else notice this?
2 questions for you....

Are you on a floating floor or concrete?
What volume were you listening at?

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post #30161 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Yep, I'd rather watch than play too. We've got the x box 1 upstairs but I never play. It was fun having the PS 4 hooked up in the basement, the sound was very nice and it looks great on the big screen.
I play but not as much as I used to. I have a one and PS4 in my rack....just started playing COD Advanced Warfare and it sounds real good in the theater. Gaming in surround sound ona big screen is a different kind of gaming.

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post #30162 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 05:20 PM
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Any idea what a used Orbit Shifter Pro is worth? From the pics a guy sent me it looks like an older model and has a decent nick on one edge. Going to check it out and if it's ok might have fun integrating it into my setup. Haven't seen many Pros used so wasn't sure on value.
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post #30163 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Speaking of John Wick, I just went out and watched John Wick and man, that club scene has got to be the goto disc for any system and every GTG! Every bullet just pounded me. I have said many times that I don't need subs and I don't! A pair of 215RT's in a small theater can achieve big bass! I actually felt like I had Crowson's! I am more impressed than ever with 215RT's. Just amazing. Cannot wait to get the missing link tomorrow, my 215RM! Going to be even more impact! LOL Having a small does have it's advantages!

One thing I noticed about the John Wick bluray is the audio seems to be out of sync? It looked like a cheap Kung Fu movie! Lips are moving after they have talked LOL. It seems like it is about a half a second delay? Anybody else notice this?
Def my first go to demo scene now...it has everything in one scene from bass, music, surrounds...all just perfectly remixed...I've got a shifting wind tunnel in my room, if you will...feels like someone turn on a huge fan. And that song fit in perfectly for the scene "Think" by Kaleida...sounds pretty good on its own as well:

I haven't noticed any lip sync issues, but my blu-ray copy of JW takes forever to load.

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post #30164 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Stated for clarity... The volume dial has no correlation to output level or power between these 2 subs.

Depends on what you want to compare. Audyssey will do different things with each. The ideal way to compare is manually measure and similarly match response curve and level of the curve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Also don't forget that both drivers have different sensitivity, so that can make a fairly big difference as well, especially on the same amp if you just gain matching on the amp.
Personally, I would take audyssey completely off, level match them as best as possible with REW and start making graphs. Play both drivers, then turn audyssey on and EQ to how you like to listen and go from there. Doing an A/B knowing what driver is playing completely negates the SQ effect IMO.
Has anyone used the Audyssey mic with REW successfully? I think I had read it was possible to get good results even though it's not a UMIK.

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post #30165 of 30452 Old 06-28-2015, 09:10 PM
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I use the omnimic, I've never tried the audyssey one.

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post #30166 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
2 questions for you....

Are you on a floating floor or concrete?
What volume were you listening at?
I am on a concrete floor, but it is not a slab! It is over a cinderblock foundation and backfilled and poured over top. I think the floor is 4" of crete. Certianly gives the effect of a suspended wood floor. The room was originally a screened in porch, which we then decided to frame and became a summer room Bar/pool room. I then converted it to a theater. The rest of my home is a wood suspended floor. I could not believe the impact at the seats!

I was listening at -10 and -5. I have been in many theaters and I feel that I am getting as much or more bass than theaters with 8 and 10 subs. I know it is because of the size of the room, but certainly the 215's are just amazing and the DSP really does wonders! I cannot wait to hook up the RM today and do that scene over again and see what I gain. I am going to do some measurements today and do a before and after!

Here is a pic of the foundation. You can see the slab at the top. I had these pics on hand, sorry for the Inverter in the way!
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post #30167 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
Def my first go to demo scene now...it has everything in one scene from bass, music, surrounds...all just perfectly remixed...I've got a shifting wind tunnel in my room, if you will...feels like someone turn on a huge fan. And that song fit in perfectly for the scene "Think" by Kaleida...sounds pretty good on its own as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MmPabOq0zs

I haven't noticed any lip sync issues, but my blu-ray copy of JW takes forever to load.
I believe that John Wick has moved into my top 5 movies of all time now, or maybe I will put it in 6th place. The thing I like about it is that it has a bit of pulp fiction to it. Not to mention non stop action. Just a guys movie, because my wife hated it and I have heard that other women hate it also. I have to say that one of the highlights of the KC trip was Carps room and the John Wick demo! Jonathan also had a loop going of Batman and the GE M134 Minigun ballistic test scene with near fields and Crowson's. Good stuff!
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post #30168 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 09:02 AM
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@Scott27 ,

In my limited experience with baffle walls - I do believe a pair of speakers tends to sound better for dedicated two channel music listening outside a baffle wall than in (at least as it relates to behind an AT movie screen, without as placement and toe in flexibility). However for cinema use, I prefer the use of a baffle wall and an AT screen, and the front speakers being hidden behind the screen.

Admittedly - my experience with bafflewalls is limited, so I make this observation just based on three pairs of speakers I've played with in my particular room and baffle wall.

In my room, for stereo two channel music listening, I liked the three speakers I've tried so far, outside of the baffle wall, and in front of the AT screen more than in the baffle wall.

JTR 228HT
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post #30169 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I believe that John Wick has moved into my top 5 movies of all time now, or maybe I will put it in 6th place. The thing I like about it is that it has a bit of pulp fiction to it. Not to mention non stop action. Just a guys movie, because my wife hated it and I have heard that other women hate it also. I have to say that one of the highlights of the KC trip was Carps room and the John Wick demo! Jonathan also had a loop going of Batman and the GE M134 Minigun ballistic test scene with near fields and Crowson's. Good stuff!
My wife "normally" does not like movies with lots of violence but there are exceptions and John Wick is one.
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post #30170 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 10:22 AM
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Without looking (no cheating!!) how many bad guys do you think John Wick kills? We were placing our bets the other night after the movie was over. I didn't guess high enough.
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post #30171 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
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Well it depends on whether you are trying to level match or gain match really. Right now you seem to want to gain match, so yes, you are doing it right, but with the two drastically different styles of systems, I would go more for making sure AVR sub trims are around the same, and level match using the speakerpower amps. That way you are sending them the same voltage out of the AVR. Just make sure you don't go into the positive territory on the sub-out from the avr or you could stand to clip the input of the speakerpower.
Cool...gain match set then...that eliminates one factor and I'll keep that a constant.

The AVR sub trim is where there's such a huge difference and I'm trying to understand what's the technical reasons behind it...as to why there would be almost a 12db difference in trim level to sound similar as far as output/impact, at least to my ears...right now it seems type, cabinet size, placement for smoothest freq response of the subs are the largest factors (that last one is a lot harder due to the sizes of both, so I'm extremely limited here), but I'd love to understand how the drivers/dsp/etc causes one to perform differently than the other with that sub trim diff.

I also realize that to test both objectively...we'd have to take both subs outdoors. This would be fun and quite a learning experience if we had at least 4 guys to help move these refrigerators. Otherwise, I'm truly only testing to see what sounds best to my ears and more importantly, in my room.

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post #30172 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 10:32 AM
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Without looking (no cheating!!) how many bad guys do you think John Wick kills? We were placing our bets the other night after the movie was over. I didn't guess high enough.
30?
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post #30173 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 10:33 AM
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Without looking (no cheating!!) how many bad guys do you think John Wick kills? We were placing our bets the other night after the movie was over. I didn't guess high enough.
37?

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post #30174 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 10:50 AM
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post #30175 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 10:55 AM
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I guessed 50. One of the other guys looked it up and it's 77! 13 just in the scene at his house even though he tells the clean up crew that there is 12.
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post #30176 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
Cool...gain match set then...that eliminates one factor and I'll keep that a constant.
I don't understand from this comment what you are gain matching. Can you clarify?
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post #30177 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I guessed 50. One of the other guys looked it up and it's 77! 13 just in the scene at his house even though he tells the clean up crew that there is 12.
Notice that he didn't kill Tom Brady's ex-girlfriend? Not even John Wick messes with Tom Brady.
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post #30178 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I guessed 50. One of the other guys looked it up and it's 77! 13 just in the scene at his house even though he tells the clean up crew that there is 12.
It's like a bakers dozen. Number 13 is free!
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post #30179 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 12:10 PM
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I guessed 50. One of the other guys looked it up and it's 77! 13 just in the scene at his house even though he tells the clean up crew that there is 12.
I was saying 37 just for the club kill

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post #30180 of 30452 Old 06-29-2015, 12:11 PM
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I don't understand from this comment what you are gain matching. Can you clarify?
Setting the gain equally on both sub amps...since both subs have speakerpower 4kw.

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