Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1018 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #30511 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Haha, the wife sees me do this almost on a nightly basis... Lights off, just sitting there listening to music.
yeah, talk about WAF...
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post #30512 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 08:59 AM
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I'm SOOOO tempted by this. I live about an hour from him. If i currently have 212's as my LR, and have 2 of the new S2 subwoofers on the way, would this make any sense for me to sell my 212's and shell out the extra cash for them?
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Depends. Do you intend on spending time listening to good ole 2 channel stereo music? If so, I'd venture a guess that the 215's in full range mode might be totally worth the upgrade. If you are strictly movies, then I don't see as much of an argument there...

I agree with Brandon 100% on this. For movies I have been using a 80 hz crossover for a while now so the full range capabilities of the 215's are wasted. However for music I just can't get the bass sound/feel as good with the 80hz crossover as I can with the 215's set to large and trust me I've tried - and continue to try just because I like to tweak the sound and tinker around.

Buzz Killington (who seems to be in every single thread I follow these days and is constantly in arguments with anyone and everyone which is making avs a lot less fun than it used to be - I swear I never saw the guy until a few months ago and now he is everywhere) says that the 215's are an offensive design and are an example of everything that is wrong with AVS these days. He is right that by the book you don't want to have full range speakers because the best place for the speakers is seldom the best place for the bass. Also the room should dictate the crossover and not the speakers. I knew all this before buying the 215's but bought them anyway because I figured... what the hell, I've always wanted full range speakers.

So, if you are a movies only guy I would pass, if you plan on putting the speakers in a baffle wall or close to the front wall I would pass. If you plan on using them for 2 channel music and will have the speakers a few feet out from the front wall then I would consider it for sure. I went from 212's for LR to 215's a little over a year ago and haven't regretted it for a second.

With the speakers out from the front wall in my room the drivers are all reasonably close to the quarter points from the back wall and front wall. They are also close to the quarter points from the side walls, and since the drivers are placed where they are on the speaker itself (probably not an accident) they are also not far from the quarter points of the floor and ceiling. I think this is why I prefer full range for 2 channel over using a crossover and subs. Music in 2 channel sounds better to me in full range with the front subs off than any delay/phase/placement of the subs that I have tried since I bought/built the subs almost 2.5 years ago. Also, maybe there is something to stereo bass? I know below 80hz stereo bass isn't supposed to matter since the bass becomes non-directional, and I've read that the low bass is mixed in mono anyway.... but I don't know... just another possibility as to why I like full range better.

I will say that if I can ever find cheaper speakers crossed at 80hz that I like better I would switch in a heart beat. I'm not a wealthy guy so freeing up some cash would be nice. I was hoping that the JBL 4722's would be that speaker and I had them in my room for a few weeks to try them out... but they weren't as good. I really wanted to like them as much or more so I could free up some funds for Atmos and Dirac but no dice.
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post #30513 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Naylorman32 View Post
I'm pretty much 90% movies/TV. If I listen to music, I just do 7 channel stereo to fill out the room better. My preferred music listening is more in other rooms in the house, just so it wouldn't be so weird for my GF to see me just sitting in my bat cave basement listening to music alone LOL
Haha, I do it all the time - I like having Palladia (music concert channel) on the screen so in case there is a song or artist i like I can switch the audio to the tv, other than that I'm listening to my own music.


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post #30514 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 09:10 AM
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I'm pretty much 90% movies/TV. If I listen to music, I just do 7 channel stereo to fill out the room better. My preferred music listening is more in other rooms in the house, just so it wouldn't be so weird for my GF to see me just sitting in my bat cave basement listening to music alone LOL
Since this is the case I would stick to your 212's.
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post #30515 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM
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Since this is the case I would stick to your 212's.

Perfect explanations. Thanks Carp!


And to your point, I always prefer concert dvds just so i have the excuse that im not sitting in a dark room staring at a wall haha.
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post #30516 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM
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Perfect explanations. Thanks Carp!


And to your point, I always prefer concert dvds just so i have the excuse that im not sitting in a dark room staring at a wall haha.
Your welcome - plus you have the added advantage of being able to run the 212's with an AVR and still go louder than you would ever want.
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post #30517 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 11:12 AM
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I agree with Brandon 100% on this. For movies I have been using a 80 hz crossover for a while now so the full range capabilities of the 215's are wasted. However for music I just can't get the bass sound/feel as good with the 80hz crossover as I can with the 215's set to large and trust me I've tried - and continue to try just because I like to tweak the sound and tinker around.

Buzz Killington (who seems to be in every single thread I follow these days and is constantly in arguments with anyone and everyone which is making avs a lot less fun than it used to be - I swear I never saw the guy until a few months ago and now he is everywhere) says that the 215's are an offensive design and are an example of everything that is wrong with AVS these days. He is right that by the book you don't want to have full range speakers because the best place for the speakers is seldom the best place for the bass. Also the room should dictate the crossover and not the speakers. I knew all this before buying the 215's but bought them anyway because I figured... what the hell, I've always wanted full range speakers.

So, if you are a movies only guy I would pass, if you plan on putting the speakers in a baffle wall or close to the front wall I would pass. If you plan on using them for 2 channel music and will have the speakers a few feet out from the front wall then I would consider it for sure. I went from 212's for LR to 215's a little over a year ago and haven't regretted it for a second.

With the speakers out from the front wall in my room the drivers are all reasonably close to the quarter points from the back wall and front wall. They are also close to the quarter points from the side walls, and since the drivers are placed where they are on the speaker itself (probably not an accident) they are also not far from the quarter points of the floor and ceiling. I think this is why I prefer full range for 2 channel over using a crossover and subs. Music in 2 channel sounds better to me in full range with the front subs off than any delay/phase/placement of the subs that I have tried since I bought/built the subs almost 2.5 years ago. Also, maybe there is something to stereo bass? I know below 80hz stereo bass isn't supposed to matter since the bass becomes non-directional, and I've read that the low bass is mixed in mono anyway.... but I don't know... just another possibility as to why I like full range better.

I will say that if I can ever find cheaper speakers crossed at 80hz that I like better I would switch in a heart beat. I'm not a wealthy guy so freeing up some cash would be nice. I was hoping that the JBL 4722's would be that speaker and I had them in my room for a few weeks to try them out... but they weren't as good. I really wanted to like them as much or more so I could free up some funds for Atmos and Dirac but no dice.

This is a gray area that many people attempt to dig into but seldom few seem to find clarity on. I'd like to try out full range speakers in my room just to see if I can't shed more light on the phenomena personally. Full range mains, properly placed still are the only holdout I have to replace what otherwise is a perfect speaker setup for me. Why does full range mains appear to have so much more presence and full bodied bass sound compared to a well blended sub/satellite combo? Especially when the sub setup is as capable as yours or mine. I know you and I both have done our absolute fair share of measurements to ensure proper blending and time alignment/positioning of the combo as well... Something just doesn't add up to me, and I'd love to put a finger on it.

My initial thoughts are simply that one can never get the exactly perfect time alignment from a sub/sat combo as you would from using capable 15" woofers that dig into the 20hz range on your mains. It is after all, a single pair of drivers belting that bass out, you can't get much better time alignment than the same exact driver doing the whole bandwidth (well, the whole BASS bandwidth that is).

My second conjecture is there is something just inherently lost when trying to hand-off the signal you want the subs to reproduce instead of the mains, but I have no electronic measurement that can prove this one way or another, and I have no clue as to how in the world to prove this from a conceptual standpoint in the first place... so basically just leave me to my musings here....


Haha, Buzz Killington
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post #30518 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 11:21 AM
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This is a gray area that many people attempt to dig into but seldom few seem to find clarity on. I'd like to try out full range speakers in my room just to see if I can't shed more light on the phenomena personally. Full range mains, properly placed still are the only holdout I have to replace what otherwise is a perfect speaker setup for me. Why does full range mains appear to have so much more presence and full bodied bass sound compared to a well blended sub/satellite combo? Especially when the sub setup is as capable as yours or mine. I know you and I both have done our absolute fair share of measurements to ensure proper blending and time alignment/positioning of the combo as well... Something just doesn't add up to me, and I'd love to put a finger on it.

My initial thoughts are simply that one can never get the exactly perfect time alignment from a sub/sat combo as you would from using capable 15" woofers that dig into the 20hz range on your mains. It is after all, a single pair of drivers belting that bass out, you can't get much better time alignment than the same exact driver doing the whole bandwidth (well, the whole BASS bandwidth that is).

My second conjecture is there is something just inherently lost when trying to hand-off the signal you want the subs to reproduce instead of the mains, but I have no electronic measurement that can prove this one way or another, and I have no clue as to how in the world to prove this from a conceptual standpoint in the first place... so basically just leave me to my musings here....


Haha, Buzz Killington

You could drag your LS-6's down to your room!! I'm sure you are just dying to move all of your subs and Danley's out of the way...
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post #30519 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM
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You could drag your LS-6's down to your room!! I'm sure you are just dying to move all of your subs and Danley's out of the way...
The day those came back from Andrew's and came out of the basement for the first time, I knew it would be the last. I snuck them in the upstairs den before the wife got home from an out of town conference (once again, forgiveness before permission) and to my surprise she actually likes them now and won't let me sell em off.

When they were downstairs, they really were incredibly impressive for music.
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post #30520 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 11:28 AM
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The day those came back from Andrew's and came out of the basement for the first time, I knew it would be the last. I snuck them in the upstairs den before the wife got home from an out of town conference (once again, forgiveness before permission) and to my surprise she actually likes them now and won't let me sell em off.

When they were downstairs, they really were incredibly impressive for music.
Did they sound better than they do upstairs? Were they out from the front wall when they were downstairs?
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post #30521 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM
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Did they sound better than they do upstairs? Were they out from the front wall when they were downstairs?
Oh yea. Upstairs is an acoustical nightmare, and they have to be shoved almost right up against the wall. Downstairs they had plenty of room to breathe, where they were about 2 feet off the wall to the back of the enclosure, so basically 3 feet off the wall to the front. I could also toe them properly downstairs as well...and the treatments helped.
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post #30522 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM
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Wow, here's a really good deal for anyone in PA that might be looking for some 215RT's.
fs: pair of jtr 215rt's


Makes me wish I was local!
Yup, a heck of a deal. Looks like he's selling a pair of Growlers and a Funk amp as well. I actually picked up the S2 he was selling around October/November of last year... again, for a heck of a good deal. Still beating the snot out of 3 S2's on a weekly basis..
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These last few post sum up everything I've been after for several years. Full range fronts that will excel for stereo listening as well as when I put in a concert DVD and enjoy the subs.

I'm very happy with my M2's but redoing a basement and needed to buy all the HT equipment makes me wonder if there is a more cost effective way to built my HT. Even the thought of buying another M2 has my wife wanting to kill me. $$$$$
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post #30524 of 30540 Old Yesterday, 12:38 PM
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Yup, a heck of a deal. Looks like he's selling a pair of Growlers and a Funk amp as well. I actually picked up the S2 he was selling around October/November of last year... again, for a heck of a good deal. Still beating the snot out of 3 S2's on a weekly basis..
So you're the one that got that S2 at a crazy good price
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So you're the one that got that S2 at a crazy good price
Yep, that was me! I needed a nice stand for my center... I see you went with dual S2's... niice!
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Did anyone ever find out anything about the 'JTR Speakers' signs?

Alternatively, is there a larger version .gif, or .jpg, of the official logo that anyone has squirreled away for making your own sign?

As a soon-to-be new owner of some JTR Speakers (Jeff has projected that if everything goes right, they may ship as soon as tomorrow!!), I would like to advertise that fact in my little theater... Any ideas?

Thanks,

- s.west

"That's not what he said, y'ignorant wretch. Your Spanish is worse than your English."
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post #30527 of 30540 Old Today, 04:48 AM
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Did anyone ever find out anything about the 'JTR Speakers' signs?

Alternatively, is there a larger version .gif, or .jpg, of the official logo that anyone has squirreled away for making your own sign?

As a soon-to-be new owner of some JTR Speakers (Jeff has projected that if everything goes right, they may ship as soon as tomorrow!!), I would like to advertise that fact in my little theater... Any ideas?

Thanks,

- s.west
I think I heard it was some guy in Germany that made them.
I wouldn't mind getting something like that too.
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I think I heard it was some guy in Germany that made them.
I wouldn't mind getting something like that too.
Agreed, i'd love some good signs to support our posse
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post #30529 of 30540 Old Today, 06:06 AM
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Yep, that was me! I needed a nice stand for my center... I see you went with dual S2's... niice!
I'd love to see some pics of those 3 S2's in your theater! I cant imagine how sick that is
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I agree with Brandon 100% on this. For movies I have been using a 80 hz crossover for a while now so the full range capabilities of the 215's are wasted. However for music I just can't get the bass sound/feel as good with the 80hz crossover as I can with the 215's set to large and trust me I've tried - and continue to try just because I like to tweak the sound and tinker around.

Buzz Killington (who seems to be in every single thread I follow these days and is constantly in arguments with anyone and everyone which is making avs a lot less fun than it used to be - I swear I never saw the guy until a few months ago and now he is everywhere) says that the 215's are an offensive design and are an example of everything that is wrong with AVS these days. He is right that by the book you don't want to have full range speakers because the best place for the speakers is seldom the best place for the bass. Also the room should dictate the crossover and not the speakers. I knew all this before buying the 215's but bought them anyway because I figured... what the hell, I've always wanted full range speakers.

So, if you are a movies only guy I would pass, if you plan on putting the speakers in a baffle wall or close to the front wall I would pass. If you plan on using them for 2 channel music and will have the speakers a few feet out from the front wall then I would consider it for sure. I went from 212's for LR to 215's a little over a year ago and haven't regretted it for a second.

With the speakers out from the front wall in my room the drivers are all reasonably close to the quarter points from the back wall and front wall. They are also close to the quarter points from the side walls, and since the drivers are placed where they are on the speaker itself (probably not an accident) they are also not far from the quarter points of the floor and ceiling. I think this is why I prefer full range for 2 channel over using a crossover and subs. Music in 2 channel sounds better to me in full range with the front subs off than any delay/phase/placement of the subs that I have tried since I bought/built the subs almost 2.5 years ago. Also, maybe there is something to stereo bass? I know below 80hz stereo bass isn't supposed to matter since the bass becomes non-directional, and I've read that the low bass is mixed in mono anyway.... but I don't know... just another possibility as to why I like full range better.

I will say that if I can ever find cheaper speakers crossed at 80hz that I like better I would switch in a heart beat. I'm not a wealthy guy so freeing up some cash would be nice. I was hoping that the JBL 4722's would be that speaker and I had them in my room for a few weeks to try them out... but they weren't as good. I really wanted to like them as much or more so I could free up some funds for Atmos and Dirac but no dice.
Haven't posted in a while been enjoying the 215 RM's. Last night I unplugged my subs and just ran 2 channel "virtual" stereo off of a Marantz 8801 with fronts set to "Large". I put on some electronic music and was amazed at the amount of bass these things put out. By the way I didn't do any boosting at all, just what Audessey sent. It sounded like I left one of the Sub M's on. For that aspect alone, I'm happy to have gotten a "fuller" range loudspeaker. Carp, I am like you for movies though, 80hz crossover and all subs boosted, LOL.
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post #30531 of 30540 Old Today, 07:33 AM
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Did anyone ever find out anything about the 'JTR Speakers' signs?

Alternatively, is there a larger version .gif, or .jpg, of the official logo that anyone has squirreled away for making your own sign?

As a soon-to-be new owner of some JTR Speakers (Jeff has projected that if everything goes right, they may ship as soon as tomorrow!!), I would like to advertise that fact in my little theater... Any ideas?

Thanks,

- s.west
This is the very cool print the German guy made up. I can't find his info and I think he has moved on. I'd be willing to have this print copied (not even sure of the process as it is very 3D looking) and send out prints to those of you who want them.

If you're interested PM me and I'll see what the cost would be to have copies made.

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post #30532 of 30540 Old Today, 07:44 AM
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^^^^^That looks Badass!!!!

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Below is the original Thread. Santando(?) hasn't been around for a couple of years. AFAIR, it was $75-80 framed and shipped to CONUS. Nice stuff though ... The trick will be finding a copy process that can maintain the quality. Anyone with some skills/connections that has the time/inclination and wants to take this on, I'll send you mine and you can work off of that.

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post #30534 of 30540 Old Today, 09:01 AM
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I might be able to help if you want it made in silver/gold.
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post #30535 of 30540 Old Today, 11:19 AM
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This is the very cool print the German guy made up...
That is <really> nice.

I asked Jeff for some larger-scale images of his logo, and he sent them along, so at the very least I'll be able to half-ass something for the near term. And, by 'half-ass', I don't mean that I won't give it proper attention, and do the best job I can... the fact is, though, anything will look 'half-assed' compared to what you just showed us...

We need an APB on the 'German guy'!

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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
You find an appreciable difference with the ne xo? I have t12's and didn't realize he had updated, curious if its worth it. Im not shipping these things to him, did you put the xo in or did you physically ship your speakers. Realistic to think I should be able to install a new xo?
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Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post
I might be able to help if you want it made in silver/gold.
I shipped mine to Jeff, if we are honest out of ignorance, and had him do the work. It did only cost me $100 to ship a pallet as I get goos shipping discounts. But I also needed a little repair on one of the woofer female mounting threads.

I know RMK and a few others who have done xo upgrades or xo and BMS cd upgrades and just had Jeff ship them after he built the xo's. I and everyone else I think would highly recommend the BMS CD. I did feel the selenium CD sounded very nice and clinical but the BMS has nicer high top end sound IMO. It's a worthy upgrade IMO. You have three T12's?

For sale: Ben Q W7000 Projector W/four pairs of 3D glasses, Denon 4520 AVR, Definitive Technology PM600 HTIB, Silver Ticket 92" Fixed frame Aluminum PJ Screen. PM for any interests :)
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I shipped mine to Jeff, if we are honest out of ignorance, and had him do the work. It did only cost me $100 to ship a pallet as I get goos shipping discounts. But I also needed a little repair on one of the woofer female mounting threads.

I know RMK and a few others who have done xo upgrades or xo and BMS cd upgrades and just had Jeff ship them after he built the xo's. I and everyone else I think would highly recommend the BMS CD. I did feel the selenium CD sounded very nice and clinical but the BMS has nicer high top end sound IMO. It's a worthy upgrade IMO. You have three T12's?
If you were asking me, I have 2x T12s in storage.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
He is right that by the book you don't want to have full range speakers because the best place for the speakers is seldom the best place for the bass. Also the room should dictate the crossover and not the speakers. I knew all this before buying the 215's but bought them anyway because I figured... what the hell, I've always wanted full range speakers.
Bass is usually correlated between right and left channels. However, whenever someone compares bass they only compare the bass output from one speaker to the subwoofer and then conclude that the subwoofer works better. The bass from both left and right speakers needs to be measured at the same time to properly compare. Three 215RT's all producing bass at the same time in RMK's room measured about as smooth as I've ever seen without any EQ.
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Ok, 2 of the 3 228HTRs are on the way! Whoo hoo!

Unfortunately, #3 didn't pass muster, and has to have its compression driver replaced...We don't have an e.t.a. on getting the replacement driver yet.

What model number CD did you guys say was being used in these newer JTRs?

Anyway, I'll probably have the first two in a week, or so... Just gotta get my cool, "Powered by JTR Speakers" sign finished.

- s.west

"That's not what he said, y'ignorant wretch. Your Spanish is worse than your English."
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
This is the very cool print the German guy made up. I can't find his info and I think he has moved on. I'd be willing to have this print copied (not even sure of the process as it is very 3D looking) and send out prints to those of you who want them.

If you're interested PM me and I'll see what the cost would be to have copies made.

I know we talked about this before, but I was having two of these signs made by him. He gave me a price and I told him what I wanted and he disappeared forever!
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