Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1020 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #30571 of 30591 Old Yesterday, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
The bass won't be bloated if you have the mains and subs time aligned correctly. I do this by running a continuous sweep through the omnimic and making changes to the distance settings of the subs until it's as smooth as possible. The trick is though that you also have to have the center channel time aligned with the subs - AND - the L and R. This is tricky.

IMO for guys that have the 215's and subs it is a lot easier to just run the 215's as small for movies and then large with no subs for 2 channel music.
So you have both subs and mains running FR with movies and music? Since you have them timed aligned?
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post #30572 of 30591 Old Yesterday, 02:40 PM
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Big thanks to CountryWV for the JTR Triple 12 HTs. I have them hooked up to a horrible Sony amp and rocked out to the Metallica - Through the Never Blu-ray and a few clips from the Home Theater Demo discs from AVS and oh my god... Coming from some bookshelf B&Ws, large Denons and a few other setups, these are in a completely different league. I settled in and watched a few movies after playing them way too loud (but surprisingly not fatiguing) and the detail and dialogue was unlike anything I've heard before. All of this coming from an untreated space with a quick calibration.

I cannot wait to build out a dedicated space in the adjacent room and surround myself with JTR speakers and a nice AVR. Next on the list is a sub or two from the JTR offerings. Thanks to everyone on the forum for their reviews of these speakers over the years. They have been a dream speaker of mine for quite a while and are everything I was hoping for and more.

I got my t12's a couple months ago, and I feel if people actually knew what they were missing, these would not sit for more than a day in the classifieds. My brother inlaw has Revels, he scoffed at their appearance but was impressed when heard them in action. My one audio purchase I feel ill never regret, 2 cap 1400's and slanted 8's and ill be done
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post #30573 of 30591 Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM
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post #30574 of 30591 Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I got my t12's a couple months ago, and I feel if people actually knew what they were missing, these would not sit for more than a day in the classifieds. My brother inlaw has Revels, he scoffed at their appearance but was impressed when heard them in action. My one audio purchase I feel ill never regret, 2 cap 1400's and slanted 8's and ill be done
I have to agree with you, sad more people don't get a chance to listen to JTR's. They have breathed a whole new life into sound for me.
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post #30575 of 30591 Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
So you have both subs and mains running FR with movies and music? Since you have them timed aligned?
I did for a long time, but I'm back to crossing the mains at 80hz for movies only. I don't want to mess with the HPF and now that I have a nearfield sub I don't need any more bass than my 9 18"s can put out.

However, for 2 channel music you would have to pry my full range capabilities from my cold dead hands!! I use my system for music far more than movies - although i do watch a lot of tv and movies too....

Stitch1 and I were cranking up some tunes and drinking beer tonight for 4 hours or so, and the time just flew by. What do I do when he leaves? Listen to more music.
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post #30576 of 30591 Old Yesterday, 10:38 PM
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I could listen to the 215's all day. Thanks again for having me over.
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post #30577 of 30591 Old Today, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
I keep reading that when you set your receiver to LFE+Main, assuming you have capable mains like the 215, the bass ends up being boomy and bloated.

My question is, can you not have it setup this way and then eq your subs down?
Many sins can be cured with a nice EQ system.

A few things to be aware of with LFE+Main:
1) If you have a sub in back and mains in front, you might be able to use that to tame room modes, which can help.
2) If the sub and mains have different phase curves (which is most likely), you will probably get at least some cancellation at some frequencies.
3) It can add output.
4) All mains I have ever tried have sounded worse in LFE+Main mode than small mode, when paired with good subs. I've never tried the 215s, though, which is admittedly a different animal.

With all of this, your best bet is to measure with REW, to see what is going on in your room. It will be very different with different rooms, placement, equipment, and settings.

Without actually measuring, the safe route would be to get multiple identical subs, place them on opposite sides of the room, and run the mains in small.
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post #30578 of 30591 Old Today, 07:59 AM
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I was over @carp house yesterday to talk about his sub setup but we ended up playing music most of the evening. Here's a little snip talking about the JTR 215's a post I made in my build thread.

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I am always impressed with the JTR 215s but this was the first time I experienced them with his near field sub engaged. It was incredible. No matter what we threw at them they sounded amazing. I am not talking just one type of music. I was all over the spectrum from classical symphony to rock to pop to live acoustic to jazz to low fi indie stuff. Nothing felt out of place on his towers. Adding the near field was great for music with a stand up bass. It added that low end rumble you would expect from a mic'ed stand up like that. What was REALLY cool with the near field was symphonies that had a strong timpani presence or deep percussion. On the flip side the 215's gives you a distinct sound for every instrument played. Down to the airy sound of a flute or the multiple layers of guitar and bass. Subtle details that I find lacking on the majority of speakers are so present on the 215's that makes it hard for me to even consider other speakers.
I really need to hear the 210's at some point because they just jumped back to the top of my speaker list.
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post #30579 of 30591 Old Today, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post
I was over @carp house yesterday to talk about his sub setup but we ended up playing music most of the evening. Here's a little snip talking about the JTR 215's a post I made in my build thread.



I really need to hear the 210's at some point because they just jumped back to the top of my speaker list.
Next time you guys sit down, you absolutely MUST give Mike Oldfield - Shabda a spin. It's essentially everything you just described, tossed into one track.

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post #30580 of 30591 Old Today, 08:39 AM
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Adding it to my playlist now. Thanks for the suggestion.
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post #30581 of 30591 Old Today, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
IMO for guys that have the 215's and subs it is a lot easier to just run the 215's as small for movies and then large with no subs for 2 channel music.
That is exactly how I do it. Agree 100%

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post #30582 of 30591 Old Today, 10:14 AM
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Thanks Brandon, I'll check it out later today!

Tim's taste in music is very interesting to me. He'll "throw on" all this obscure stuff that I haven't heard of and would never find on my own and it sounds great! Each time he comes over it's different stuff too.

Speaking of the 210's...

For some reason they seem to be the forgotten step child in the JTR line up. I have yet to see anyone post about buying a pair. Hell, I forgot about them too when we were talking about speaker options yesterday. I'm not sure why they are forgotten about by everyone - including me - because I was floored with how good they sounded at David's.

Someone buy some 210's already.
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post #30583 of 30591 Old Today, 10:16 AM
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That is exactly how I do it. Agree 100%
Tim and I tried music with the 215's small and the subs on but it just didn't sound as tight or as good (and I've tried so many times dialing in the distance settings on the subs to get it to sound the same) and then you lose the ability to tweak the bass to taste with dsp. Sure, I could use the dsp to tweak the bass on the minidsp but it doesn't affect all of the bass frequencies this way like it does if you run speakers full range and fiddle with the bass.
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post #30584 of 30591 Old Today, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I got my t12's a couple months ago, and I feel if people actually knew what they were missing, these would not sit for more than a day in the classifieds. My brother inlaw has Revels, he scoffed at their appearance but was impressed when heard them in action. My one audio purchase I feel ill never regret, 2 cap 1400's and slanted 8's and ill be done
That's exactly what I'm wanting to do also! I could only imagine what that would be like in a dedicated room.

It's probably massive overkill but has anybody mounted S8LPs in ceiling for Atmos?
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post #30585 of 30591 Old Today, 10:47 AM
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Ok here's my take on the 215's with subs. So after doing extensive trials and testing. With movies, I prefer running my 215's with subs. Even if you set the mains to large and put a X/O point. The receiver or pre pro will still send the LFE to the subs. I've done testing to this by shutting off the power on my subs and switch between large and small. Yet still having set yes to subs in the receiver. When set to large I can tell from hearing that no LFE goes to the mains. Now when I select no to subs and leave it large. Then damn, the 215's put put out the guns in the LFE. Now, in my receiver there's a plus to subs setting which when I listen to music I enable. Setting the mains to large in stereo mode with plus to subs makes both run in FR all down the spectrum. Well the subs has its limitations to FR of course. But down low is where both my subs and speakers play nicely but with authority together. I'd tried using it this way with movies. But it just seems boomy and out of whack. I guess ported and sealed takes time to calibrate to work in sync together. And unfortunately, REW does not allow you to leave the mains to large. So I can't dial it in if I wanna go that route. So, I've come to conclusion that when I wanna get heavy in movies, with a good pounding to my body. I'd set my my 215's to small crossing over to the quad S2's. I like it better like that. Because movies is more dynamic then music. But most time I have my subs sleeping and just running my speakers full range with NO to subs. Even this route with the 215's is more then enough. Especially if you get these speakers calibrated down to the Tee like Rob. I've heard he's system with the 215's running solo. Awesome setup.. So the point I'm trying to get across here is if your run your OS with the 215's at FR. It's a waste for the speakers potential cause it doesn't work that way once you enable yes to subs and a X/O point. I'd rather look into the 212's and save get another or three more OS. JMHO…
Oddly enough I was just talking with @carp on the side about this. I am going to bring my Triax's to the theater and cross @80hz for movies only. I am even going to a separate CD player for music. I have shared the oppo for music and movies and find myself making adjustments, but now I want to set each and keep them separate. I just find that even with the DSP I cannot find a happy medium for movies. Bass is either overpowering or not enough and constantly adjusting. I just don't like having to make adjustment for movies. Hopefully crossing with subs will give me better control. I will still run full range for concert blues and music.

If I am reading right, you are saying you do not get LFE to the mains? I know with my Denon, if I set to Large, I get LFE to the mains.
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post #30586 of 30591 Old Today, 11:06 AM
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Tim and I tried music with the 215's small and the subs on but it just didn't sound as tight or as good (and I've tried so many times dialing in the distance settings on the subs to get it to sound the same) and then you lose the ability to tweak the bass to taste with dsp. Sure, I could use the dsp to tweak the bass on the minidsp but it doesn't affect all of the bass frequencies this way like it does if you run speakers full range and fiddle with the bass.
I've done that same test...music with 215's set to small with subs....and I don't like it either as much as I like running the 215's FR. Movies, which are 99% of my listening....I do prefer the 215's set to small with subs. Experimenting with the x-over point and (so far) 80hz seems like the best. I've tried 60 and 40 but it doesn't sound as good as 80. Have never gone higher than 80 though.

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post #30587 of 30591 Old Today, 12:23 PM
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Oddly enough I was just talking with @carp on the side about this. I am going to bring my Triax's to the theater and cross @80hz for movies only. I am even going to a separate CD player for music. I have shared the oppo for music and movies and find myself making adjustments, but now I want to set each and keep them separate. I just find that even with the DSP I cannot find a happy medium for movies. Bass is either overpowering or not enough and constantly adjusting. I just don't like having to make adjustment for movies. Hopefully crossing with subs will give me better control. I will still run full range for concert blues and music.

If I am reading right, you are saying you do not get LFE to the mains? I know with my Denon, if I set to Large, I get LFE to the mains.

With my AVR the LFE goes to the mains if you have the sub setting set to none.

However, if you use the plus setting it sends the bass to the mains and subs, but only sends the LFE to the subs. I would keep using the Plus setting for movies if it sent the LFE to the mains as well as the subs but it doesn't do that on my avr. I think most avr's are similar.
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post #30588 of 30591 Old Today, 01:11 PM
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I did for a long time, but I'm back to crossing the mains at 80hz for movies only. I don't want to mess with the HPF and now that I have a nearfield sub I don't need any more bass than my 9 18"s can put out.

However, for 2 channel music you would have to pry my full range capabilities from my cold dead hands!! I use my system for music far more than movies - although i do watch a lot of tv and movies too....

Stitch1 and I were cranking up some tunes and drinking beer tonight for 4 hours or so, and the time just flew by. What do I do when he leaves? Listen to more music.
As you knew, thats the entire reason I bought mine. I knew they wouldn't do for movies being used to about 10 times that, so I xover them @ 80 hz from day one (though experimented with full range with movies) but they are super awesome for 2 channel music, like super duper awesome lol If I had a suspended floor and wasn't in a basement, I could get away with just a few 21's and them..... but thats never gonna happen.

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post #30589 of 30591 Unread Today, 04:17 PM
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As you knew, thats the entire reason I bought mine. I knew they wouldn't do for movies being used to about 10 times that, so I xover them @ 80 hz from day one (though experimented with full range with movies) but they are super awesome for 2 channel music, like super duper awesome lol If I had a suspended floor and wasn't in a basement, I could get away with just a few 21's and them..... but thats never gonna happen.
It's interesting how so many of us that have the 215's (and some that don't own them but have heard them) have come to the same conclusion that they sound better for music when you run them large.

That's why the 210's would be such a great choice. They are truly full range for music (unless you are listening to dubstep or really low bassotronics type stuff - even then the bass is impressive) yet they are so tiny and they have all the output you could ever want if you use a powerful amp.
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post #30590 of 30591 Unread Today, 04:39 PM
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It's interesting how so many of us that have the 215's (and some that don't own them but have heard them) have come to the same conclusion that they sound better for music when you run them large.

That's why the 210's would be such a great choice. They are truly full range for music (unless you are listening to dubstep or really low bassotronics type stuff - even then the bass is impressive) yet they are so tiny and they have all the output you could ever want if you use a powerful amp.
And with even a small amp they are more than most could want ;-)
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post #30591 of 30591 Unread Today, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
It's interesting how so many of us that have the 215's (and some that don't own them but have heard them) have come to the same conclusion that they sound better for music when you run them large.

That's why the 210's would be such a great choice. They are truly full range for music (unless you are listening to dubstep or really low bassotronics type stuff - even then the bass is impressive) yet they are so tiny and they have all the output you could ever want if you use a powerful amp.
Yup and If I didn't have to have the biggest and baddest, I would have been 100% happy with the 210's too..... I just couldn't "what if" it hahaha
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