Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1035 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31021 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Jbls markup is 60% on their speakers.... And likely more if your a high volume dealer. I can get any JBL pro product at 60% off retail through a friends music store.

My personal favourite, was a set of soundstage speakers they sell at stores here called visions
They retail for 1200$ for a set and cost was 208$ for the pair hahahaha.
Yea I would have just waited and gone JTR if I didn't get near 40% off for the 4722's "suggested price."
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post #31022 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 06:42 PM
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JTR speakers are 50% off msrp, remember, you are buying direct. When purchased direct from JTR you are paying what a retailer would have to pay to stock merchandise at their physical store. Retailers pay all of their expenses and employees with the msrp markup. The markup is the ONLY source of income for the retailer. Buying products of the quality of JTRs at cost is a rarity these days.

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post #31023 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
JTR speakers are 50% off msrp, remember, you are buying direct. When purchased direct from JTR you are paying what a retailer would have to pay to stock merchandise at their physical store. Retailers pay all of their expenses and employees with the msrp markup. The markup is the ONLY source of income for the retailer. Buying products of the quality of JTRs at cost is a rarity these days.

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And THAT is why I'll be buying speakers from Jeff until my ears no longer work
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post #31024 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 07:53 PM
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Anybody know what is the best crossover point for these slanted 8? Since these can only play down to 80hz, I don't think that's a good xo point for it right? I heard its best if you crossover surrounds a little higher than their lowest frequency.
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post #31025 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
JTR speakers are 50% off msrp, remember, you are buying direct. When purchased direct from JTR you are paying what a retailer would have to pay to stock merchandise at their physical store. Retailers pay all of their expenses and employees with the msrp markup. The markup is the ONLY source of income for the retailer. Buying products of the quality of JTRs at cost is a rarity these days.

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The flip side is someone bigger probably can buy or manufacture the parts cheaper, manufacture the end products or assemble them cheaper, and so the end cost is cheaper- even after a retailer takes a cut. Most retailers have to compete with the interwebs these days- so there is not huge margins. Perhaps MSRP is, but no one pays that. If you buy a $1000 speaker online and shop it hard the retailer is lucky to make $100 in some cases. But the wholesale is also lower than the "internet direct" price by at least $100 too, so it call comes out in the wash.

A JBL 4722 for example can be had for like $1100. I can't even DIY that speaker for that price. Two of the 2226 woofers and a macho man tweeter that can cross at 630hz is going to cost that much, never mind glue, time, stuffing, wire, misc parts, and wood.

The only way it even makes sense to try if to use a nice woofer and a better tweeter (beryllium) and now you are at $2000 in parts per speaker. That's almost twice what the street price costs. Any decent 15" is going to cost you $250+ and any decent CD is going to cost you $500+ so it's totally pointless. Some might say that it's an exceptional value considering such things. JTR doesn't make a dual 15" speaker with a 90 degree horn for $1100 each. Your example doesn't hold true for me, but in the end the value of purchase decisions are personal matters so no one is ever right or wrong.

Most of the mark up on parts is nearly 50%. I know I can get Radian stuff for about that discount (wholesale). JBL is about 40%. I am sure JTR pays wholesale for the woofers and tweeters, at minimum, that is if they don't OEM or batch order even cheaper. If you reverse engineer the parts (they are off the shelf for the most part, or OEM changes would be about same prices) you see they make plenty of margin or markup. It's easily as much as some retailers/big manufacturers.

The main difference is generally speaking the parts in JTR are better. A lot of mainstream speaker makers use weaker parts. The CD's that JTR uses are decent quality across the board, probably better than you get in plastic PA speakers, or cheaper manufacture made speakers. That is where the value is, for someone that wants that. But you do pay for it. If JTR started using $35 tweeters I am sure the prices of the products would come down. You always get what you pay for. The difference in speakers is in the design, not the cost. Cost has nothing to do with sound quality. It does have to do with output.

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post #31026 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspen0220 View Post
Anybody know what is the best crossover point for these slanted 8? Since these can only play down to 80hz, I don't think that's a good xo point for it right? I heard its best if you crossover surrounds a little higher than their lowest frequency.
Depends on location. I have seen Audyssey set the xover for S8's anywhere from 60-100hz. Experiment and see what sounds (or even better measures) best to you.

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post #31027 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 10:46 PM
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Official JTR speaker thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
The CD's that JTR uses are decent quality

Decent? Other than switching to BE, how much better could it be? I thought the JTR speakers used one of the top CDs available?
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post #31028 of 31032 Unread Yesterday, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Decent? Other than switching to BE, how much better could it be? I thought the JTR speakers used one of the top CDs available?

This is completely true for JTR's 3-way design speakers using the BMS coax compression driver. No one really knows (at least I haven't seen it mentioned) what 1.4" CD Jeff is using in the 2-way designs.
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post #31029 of 31032 Unread Today, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
The flip side is someone bigger probably can buy or manufacture the parts cheaper, manufacture the end products or assemble them cheaper, and so the end cost is cheaper- even after a retailer takes a cut. Most retailers have to compete with the interwebs these days- so there is not huge margins. Perhaps MSRP is, but no one pays that. If you buy a $1000 speaker online and shop it hard the retailer is lucky to make $100 in some cases. But the wholesale is also lower than the "internet direct" price by at least $100 too, so it call comes out in the wash.

A JBL 4722 for example can be had for like $1100. I can't even DIY that speaker for that price. Two of the 2226 woofers and a macho man tweeter that can cross at 630hz is going to cost that much, never mind glue, time, stuffing, wire, misc parts, and wood.

The only way it even makes sense to try if to use a nice woofer and a better tweeter (beryllium) and now you are at $2000 in parts per speaker. That's almost twice what the street price costs. Any decent 15" is going to cost you $250+ and any decent CD is going to cost you $500+ so it's totally pointless. Some might say that it's an exceptional value considering such things. JTR doesn't make a dual 15" speaker with a 90 degree horn for $1100 each. Your example doesn't hold true for me, but in the end the value of purchase decisions are personal matters so no one is ever right or wrong.

Most of the mark up on parts is nearly 50%. I know I can get Radian stuff for about that discount (wholesale). JBL is about 40%. I am sure JTR pays wholesale for the woofers and tweeters, at minimum, that is if they don't OEM or batch order even cheaper. If you reverse engineer the parts (they are off the shelf for the most part, or OEM changes would be about same prices) you see they make plenty of margin or markup. It's easily as much as some retailers/big manufacturers.

The main difference is generally speaking the parts in JTR are better. A lot of mainstream speaker makers use weaker parts. The CD's that JTR uses are decent quality across the board, probably better than you get in plastic PA speakers, or cheaper manufacture made speakers. That is where the value is, for someone that wants that. But you do pay for it. If JTR started using $35 tweeters I am sure the prices of the products would come down. You always get what you pay for. The difference in speakers is in the design, not the cost. Cost has nothing to do with sound quality. It does have to do with output.
That is why I purchased an Orbit Shifter, I figured up the parts and it was just too close to even think of building.
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post #31030 of 31032 Unread Today, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
This is completely true for JTR's 3-way design speakers using the BMS coax compression driver. No one really knows (at least I haven't seen it mentioned) what 1.4" CD Jeff is using in the 2-way designs.
Has anyone asked him? Or taken a peak ? There is a lot of good 1.4" CD on the market, I'm sure it's good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Decent? Other than switching to BE, how much better could it be? I thought the JTR speakers used one of the top CDs available?
Decent was a weak word choice I'll admit. My point was yes they are good quality, as opposed to many others.
Most speakers have cheap little tweeters in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
That is why I purchased an Orbit Shifter, I figured up the parts and it was just too close to even think of building.
What does OS cost? Compared to parts? IDK... but curious. Horns are hard to design and build as well. It's not a Saturday afternoon project if you want to get it right, nor a rookie level project either. I have a pair of LMS drivers sitting here because I have no time to fold up something yet. I have a good friend that is a tapped horn wizard, so when the time comes I'm gonna get silly. I like the idea of the tapped horn better because it's got a lower tune that works well for HT. 15hz would be perfect IMO.

I bet the OS is awesome for music though. Horns always sound good to me for music when they are done well.

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post #31031 of 31032 Unread Today, 09:23 AM
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I am hoping to do some direct comparisons with the single 8's and pretty much any other speaker I can get my hands on. I have already talked to @carp about comparing them with the volts. The few times I have heard the single 8's I was always pretty impressed. Unfortunately, I have only heard them as mains for short periods of time and never really optimally setup. dlbeck uses them for surrounds and they are simply fantastic in his room.
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post #31032 of 31032 Unread Today, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Has anyone asked him? Or taken a peak ? There is a lot of good 1.4" CD on the market, I'm sure it's good.



Decent was a weak word choice I'll admit. My point was yes they are good quality, as opposed to many others.
Most speakers have cheap little tweeters in them.



What does OS cost? Compared to parts? IDK... but curious. Horns are hard to design and build as well. It's not a Saturday afternoon project if you want to get it right, nor a rookie level project either. I have a pair of LMS drivers sitting here because I have no time to fold up something yet. I have a good friend that is a tapped horn wizard, so when the time comes I'm gonna get silly. I like the idea of the tapped horn better because it's got a lower tune that works well for HT. 15hz would be perfect IMO.

I bet the OS is awesome for music though. Horns always sound good to me for music when they are done well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Has anyone asked him? Or taken a peak ? There is a lot of good 1.4" CD on the market, I'm sure it's good.



Decent was a weak word choice I'll admit. My point was yes they are good quality, as opposed to many others.
Most speakers have cheap little tweeters in them.



What does OS cost? Compared to parts? IDK... but curious. Horns are hard to design and build as well. It's not a Saturday afternoon project if you want to get it right, nor a rookie level project either. I have a pair of LMS drivers sitting here because I have no time to fold up something yet. I have a good friend that is a tapped horn wizard, so when the time comes I'm gonna get silly. I like the idea of the tapped horn better because it's got a lower tune that works well for HT. 15hz would be perfect IMO.

I bet the OS is awesome for music though. Horns always sound good to me for music when they are done well.
The speakerpower amp and driver alone is 2 grand'ish, I wouldn't substitute for lesser parts or materials, baltic birch is not cheap and also not real common in a lot of areas.


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