Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1039 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #31141 of 31155 Unread Today, 06:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lemonslush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 1,395
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...eakers-6031289

The Noesis speakers provided the widest sound stage with minimum reflections:

Four wide seating just 7ft away in a 20ft wide room.


The Noesis speakers provide a "sweet spot" for stereo listening less than the width apart of the speakers with zero toe in:

Toe in will bring the "sweet spot" even closer


Here is a pic of the front. I probably should have taken one with the screen off. Rooms getting close to being finished. The JTR's are on load from a friend now who was very generous in letting me borrow them. We did some demos last night and they sound great. I got six soon to be seven subs behind the screen and once I get my brother and his friends over it will be 11.

I have klipsch for the rears at the moment and they keep up just fine with the JTRs.
lemonslush is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #31142 of 31155 Unread Today, 06:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 764 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I think no matter how educated we get we still have an itch for snake oil to be real

Honest noob question, why would a PJ screen cost that much money?
With screens, there isn't much of a correlation between money and quality. It's really about the physical properties of the screen, rather than the price. A few years ago, I ordered a dozen samples and taped them on my wall. Here's the best three options of the dozen I tested.

You don't need to be overly concerned about color. It's an issue, but your eyes will quickly adapt to color differences, and you mainly see it in side-by-side comparisons.

2.4 gain retroreflective screens are awesome for 3D. The brightness really helps the 3D experience. They may be too bright for 2D on some projectors without iris control (depending on screen size). Also, they require a narrow projector & seating angle. I don't think that Da-lite makes the 2.4 high power material any more, but I found that it was identical to another company's 2.4 material. I could probably dig it up, if you are interested. These are also better for ambient light rejection, without getting into dark materials, which have worse gain/viewing angle (at all gain levels).

My overall favorite image was the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain material. Nice and bright. Great color and resolution. Reasonably priced. Good viewing angles.

Of the AT materials I tried, Seymour Center Stage XD was much brighter than every other woven screen. This is the best option, IMO, for uncompromised audio with reasonably bright video. For my purposes, every other woven screen material was dull and dark. I think this is the best all-around route, unless you need higher gain. This will be my next screen.
Gooddoc likes this.
rcohen is online now  
post #31143 of 31155 Unread Today, 06:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jeff Permanian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
My room is only 12' wide and 25' long. How would that work? and thanks for the more detailed image. I sit 12.5' on first row and second row is 16" up 18' away or so
Looks like if the speakers are 3 feet in from the side walls than with 15 degrees of toe in the front row could be 11 feet wide and only 9 1/2 feet from the screen.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	60 degree coverage.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	100.7 KB
ID:	918442  

Last edited by Jeff Permanian; Today at 06:45 AM.
Jeff Permanian is offline  
post #31144 of 31155 Unread Today, 06:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 764 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...eakers-6031289

The Noesis speakers provided the widest sound stage with minimum reflections:

Four wide seating just 7ft away in a 20ft wide room.


The Noesis speakers provide a "sweet spot" for stereo listening less than the width apart of the speakers with zero toe in:

Toe in will bring the "sweet spot" even closer
I prefer them with much more toe in. IMO, the imaging and clarity are great when they point directly at the MLP. From there, you can expand the sweet spot and reduce side wall reflections by toeing in a bit more. At some point, the imaging suffers, but I found that aiming them about 2' in front of the MLP was ideal for my room. YMMV.

This technique works best with speakers with large horns, like JTRs.
rcohen is online now  
post #31145 of 31155 Unread Today, 07:31 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
With screens, there isn't much of a correlation between money and quality. It's really about the physical properties of the screen, rather than the price. A few years ago, I ordered a dozen samples and taped them on my wall. Here's the best three options of the dozen I tested.

You don't need to be overly concerned about color. It's an issue, but your eyes will quickly adapt to color differences, and you mainly see it in side-by-side comparisons.

2.4 gain retroreflective screens are awesome for 3D. The brightness really helps the 3D experience. They may be too bright for 2D on some projectors without iris control (depending on screen size). Also, they require a narrow projector & seating angle. I don't think that Da-lite makes the 2.4 high power material any more, but I found that it was identical to another company's 2.4 material. I could probably dig it up, if you are interested. These are also better for ambient light rejection, without getting into dark materials, which have worse gain/viewing angle (at all gain levels).

My overall favorite image was the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain material. Nice and bright. Great color and resolution. Reasonably priced. Good viewing angles.

Of the AT materials I tried, Seymour Center Stage XD was much brighter than every other woven screen. This is the best option, IMO, for uncompromised audio with reasonably bright video. For my purposes, every other woven screen material was dull and dark. I think this is the best all-around route, unless you need higher gain. This will be my next screen.
I went through a similar exercise with screens. After owning several cheap screens, I got a dealer demo powered Stewart StudioTek 130 (crazy MSLP ). That became my benchmark until I decided to go AT and then I tested several material samples against the Studiotek. I thought the XD material was the best compromise for an AT screen in all purpose HT use. It's not bright enough for 3D but I have found I don't watch 3D due to the clumsy glasses on top of my glasses and, the significant loss of light. I don't have a bat cave and like a bright image so I was thinking I need a light canon PJ for 3D but that doesn't resolve my 3D glasses issue so I'll just keep changing bulbs every 1000 hours and run my Sony (HW-50ES) in High Power mode until they work out all the kinks with 4K.

HToM Extraordinary Evolution

Opinions are not facts.

Last edited by RMK!; Today at 07:46 AM.
RMK! is online now  
post #31146 of 31155 Unread Today, 07:40 AM
Ace of Bass
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 9,639
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1982 Post(s)
Liked: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
With screens, there isn't much of a correlation between money and quality. It's really about the physical properties of the screen, rather than the price. A few years ago, I ordered a dozen samples and taped them on my wall. Here's the best three options of the dozen I tested.

You don't need to be overly concerned about color. It's an issue, but your eyes will quickly adapt to color differences, and you mainly see it in side-by-side comparisons.

2.4 gain retroreflective screens are awesome for 3D. The brightness really helps the 3D experience. They may be too bright for 2D on some projectors without iris control (depending on screen size). Also, they require a narrow projector & seating angle. I don't think that Da-lite makes the 2.4 high power material any more, but I found that it was identical to another company's 2.4 material. I could probably dig it up, if you are interested. These are also better for ambient light rejection, without getting into dark materials, which have worse gain/viewing angle (at all gain levels).

My overall favorite image was the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain material. Nice and bright. Great color and resolution. Reasonably priced. Good viewing angles.

Of the AT materials I tried, Seymour Center Stage XD was much brighter than every other woven screen. This is the best option, IMO, for uncompromised audio with reasonably bright video. For my purposes, every other woven screen material was dull and dark. I think this is the best all-around route, unless you need higher gain. This will be my next screen.
Did you test either of the Falcon materials at that time? I kept my swatch of XD and put it up against the new horizon 4k material and they were pretty close to the same brightness...and the horizon material was way better from a weave standpoint.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)


Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread
beastaudio is online now  
post #31147 of 31155 Unread Today, 07:43 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I prefer them with much more toe in. IMO, the imaging and clarity are great when they point directly at the MLP. From there, you can expand the sweet spot and reduce side wall reflections by toeing in a bit more. At some point, the imaging suffers, but I found that aiming them about 2' in front of the MLP was ideal for my room. YMMV.

This technique works best with speakers with large horns, like JTRs.
I tried this extreme toe-in with the Noesis 212's and felt it ruined imaging for 2 channel mode. Having them aimed slightly outside of the main LP produced the best sound stage and imaging. I don't have adequate room behind the screen to try this with the 215RT's and so am happy with my more conventional approach.

I respect you opinions and feel the differences we hear must be based upon other factors like speaker separation and listening distance or perhaps the room and treatments.

HToM Extraordinary Evolution

Opinions are not facts.
RMK! is online now  
post #31148 of 31155 Unread Today, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
asoofi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 1,481
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Yeah, I got a bit confused there and thought that the ambient light rejecting material was somehow AT . I guess physics makes that an unlikely combination .
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Oh...I see what you're talking about...
http://www.seymourav.com/screens.asp

Yeah, it's a shame that you have to choose between high gain and a vertical matching center. Someday projector tech and prices will make it easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I think no matter how educated we get we still have an itch for snake oil to be real

Honest noob question, why would a PJ screen cost that much money?
Brightness with pjs is different than tvs. You want better contrast over a brighter image when you're in an dark room IMO... A higher gain screen hurts contrast. For majority of viewing, which is non3D for most, this is especially important.

For the amount people are paying to some of these AT screen companies for essentially woven shade fabric is a bit absurd for what you actually get comparitvely speaking. The real costs are going towards the framing, which is overkill with some for what one needs structurally speaking to support the material...kind of like a table...as long as it has 4 legs, it'll do the job...no diff for screen frames.

I wouldn't trust some of the people behind the AT screens and their marketing hype...let alone anyone that may like to make unethical remarks on the side.

---------------------------------------------------------------
current gear: lcr JTR 212HT ~ quad JTR 8LP ~ dual JTR Orbit Shifters LFU ~ Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS

Last edited by asoofi1; Today at 08:18 AM.
asoofi1 is online now  
post #31149 of 31155 Unread Today, 08:16 AM
Member
 
MiniHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: The sticks, New Jersey
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Did you test either of the Falcon materials at that time? I kept my swatch of XD and put it up against the new horizon 4k material and they were pretty close to the same brightness...and the horizon material was way better from a weave standpoint.

Being able to see the weave was one of my biggest things to consider. My eyes are 85" from an 85" wide screen... I picked up the Falcon Horizon screen thanks to a few of your posts. I can't see the weave at all until I'm just a few feet from the screen. Brightness was not a priority, so I'm not sure how it fairs to the other companies out there.. but it is plenty bright for me! Plus, Rich was just an awesome guy to deal with, answering a few of my questions wrt an odd mounting solution. The frame is solid, the corner connections are superb, screen material is easy to work with.. and most importantly, the image is beautiful.


Completely velvet covered/light controlled room + Falcon Horizon screen + JVC PJ + JTR speakers/subs = Awesome movie experience!
RMK!, beastaudio and jlpowell84 like this.
MiniHT is online now  
post #31150 of 31155 Unread Today, 08:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 5,432
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Not sure really. The SI screens are ridiculous and the reason I had my PJ in a box for a year, lol. Had screen decision paralysis at those prices. I have a motorized 100" Elite Screens CineTension2 Series CineWhite screen and it's fantastic for the price. The actual screen characteristics are excellent, but things like motor noise are more than if you got say a Seymour.

But no doubt, big price difference. I paid less than a third of what I would have paid for a Seymour. But I realize that I do give up superior customer service and hardware quality for that savings. Those things cost more, but I suspect Elite screens business model is one of higher volume and lower margins than that of Seymour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
With screens, there isn't much of a correlation between money and quality. It's really about the physical properties of the screen, rather than the price. A few years ago, I ordered a dozen samples and taped them on my wall. Here's the best three options of the dozen I tested.

You don't need to be overly concerned about color. It's an issue, but your eyes will quickly adapt to color differences, and you mainly see it in side-by-side comparisons.

2.4 gain retroreflective screens are awesome for 3D. The brightness really helps the 3D experience. They may be too bright for 2D on some projectors without iris control (depending on screen size). Also, they require a narrow projector & seating angle. I don't think that Da-lite makes the 2.4 high power material any more, but I found that it was identical to another company's 2.4 material. I could probably dig it up, if you are interested. These are also better for ambient light rejection, without getting into dark materials, which have worse gain/viewing angle (at all gain levels).

My overall favorite image was the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain material. Nice and bright. Great color and resolution. Reasonably priced. Good viewing angles.

Of the AT materials I tried, Seymour Center Stage XD was much brighter than every other woven screen. This is the best option, IMO, for uncompromised audio with reasonably bright video. For my purposes, every other woven screen material was dull and dark. I think this is the best all-around route, unless you need higher gain. This will be my next screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I went through a similar exercise with screens. After owning several cheap screens, I got a dealer demo powered Stewart StudioTek 130 (crazy MSLP ). That became my benchmark until I decided to go AT and then I tested several material samples against the Studiotek. I thought the XD material was the best compromise for an AT screen in all purpose HT use. It's not bright enough for 3D but I have found I don't watch 3D due to the clumsy glasses on top of my glasses and, the significant loss of light. I don't have a bat cave and like a bright image so I was thinking I need a light canon PJ for 3D but that doesn't resolve my 3D glasses issue so I'll just keep changing bulbs every 1000 hours and run my Sony (HW-50ES) in High Power mode until they work out all the kinks with 4K.
Well I certainly trust the sum experience here. As well as the subjective opinions Seymour screens will always be out of my budget. I could buy one but at the sacrifice of adding six 18" woofers or nice seating I probably won't do. I felt numerous people praised the Falcon Horizon screen enough in comparison that for me it would be "more than enough." Half price of Seymour is nice. I don't car about 3D, am gonna shoot for snagging a Sony 40es (seems like good compromise point for a few years). My main concerns are AT performance and can I get enough calibrated lumens for a 150" wide screen. I mapped out room and I think I can get baffle wall (back wall framing, 4722&sub enclosures, false wall framing, then baffle wall multi layers to around 30." That gives me out to 13ft seating distance for a 12ft 6" wide screen, 10ft wide from Left to right speaker CD. All will make my world happy
RMK! likes this.

For Sale: Ben Q W7000 Projector http://www.avsforum.com/forum/218-di...l#post36918978
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
jlpowell84 is online now  
post #31151 of 31155 Unread Today, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 764 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Did you test either of the Falcon materials at that time? I kept my swatch of XD and put it up against the new horizon 4k material and they were pretty close to the same brightness...and the horizon material was way better from a weave standpoint.
I doubt I would have checked any new materials, since I did this a few years ago.

Every other weave material I did try at the time was much darker than the XD.

If Falcon has a new higher gain weave, that certainly sounds like it would be worth comparing some samples.
rcohen is online now  
post #31152 of 31155 Unread Today, 08:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 764 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I tried this extreme toe-in with the Noesis 212's and felt it ruined imaging for 2 channel mode. Having them aimed slightly outside of the main LP produced the best sound stage and imaging. I don't have adequate room behind the screen to try this with the 215RT's and so am happy with my more conventional approach.

I respect you opinions and feel the differences we hear must be based upon other factors like speaker separation and listening distance or perhaps the room and treatments.
When I toed it in too far, the imaging did collapse, so that's definitely something to watch out for. Every room is definitely very different with this sort of thing, so no telling if my experience applies to anyone else.
RMK! likes this.
rcohen is online now  
post #31153 of 31155 Unread Today, 08:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 764 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Well I certainly trust the sum experience here. As well as the subjective opinions Seymour screens will always be out of my budget. I could buy one but at the sacrifice of adding six 18" woofers or nice seating I probably won't do. I felt numerous people praised the Falcon Horizon screen enough in comparison that for me it would be "more than enough." Half price of Seymour is nice. I don't car about 3D, am gonna shoot for snagging a Sony 40es (seems like good compromise point for a few years). My main concerns are AT performance and can I get enough calibrated lumens for a 150" wide screen. I mapped out room and I think I can get baffle wall (back wall framing, 4722&sub enclosures, false wall framing, then baffle wall multi layers to around 30." That gives me out to 13ft seating distance for a 12ft 6" wide screen, 10ft wide from Left to right speaker CD. All will make my world happy
150" wide is probably pushing it for a low gain screen with that projector. Not sure about 144". Your best bet is to get some samples, put them and the projector at the right positions, and experiment.

With Seymour, some people buy the material and DIY, but if Falcon gives you good results for a lower price, go for it. Just try the samples. BTW, for AT screens, you should test them against a black background (like a black sheet of paper).
rcohen is online now  
post #31154 of 31155 Unread Today, 08:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lemonslush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 1,395
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
With screens, there isn't much of a correlation between money and quality. It's really about the physical properties of the screen, rather than the price. A few years ago, I ordered a dozen samples and taped them on my wall. Here's the best three options of the dozen I tested.

You don't need to be overly concerned about color. It's an issue, but your eyes will quickly adapt to color differences, and you mainly see it in side-by-side comparisons.

2.4 gain retroreflective screens are awesome for 3D. The brightness really helps the 3D experience. They may be too bright for 2D on some projectors without iris control (depending on screen size). Also, they require a narrow projector & seating angle. I don't think that Da-lite makes the 2.4 high power material any more, but I found that it was identical to another company's 2.4 material. I could probably dig it up, if you are interested. These are also better for ambient light rejection, without getting into dark materials, which have worse gain/viewing angle (at all gain levels).

My overall favorite image was the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain material. Nice and bright. Great color and resolution. Reasonably priced. Good viewing angles.

Of the AT materials I tried, Seymour Center Stage XD was much brighter than every other woven screen. This is the best option, IMO, for uncompromised audio with reasonably bright video. For my purposes, every other woven screen material was dull and dark. I think this is the best all-around route, unless you need higher gain. This will be my next screen.
I know this is not a screen thread but, figured I would comment. I reviewed the materials used for the screens for my research and tried not to rely upon anyone's personal opinion. I sampled various materials and found what the different frame where constructed with. This let me know what was worth it and was I didn't need. The lower end seymour screens used a thinner frame than what I felt would'nt be adequate for my size screen. I could move up to the 3.5" thickness screen but it was rather expensive. I ended up with a silverticket screen. It has substantial 3.25" frame and spring tension mounting system. The AT fabric is cut off axis to help remove moir effect and as far as acoustics works very well. I am overall very happy with my purchase and it cost me about the same as a DIY screen for my silverticket. Customer support is excellent and the newer mounting brackets are super easy to use. They do lack instruction for assembly so its not all a win win. But I will say I very much like my screen, can tell no difference from my seating distance between it and my old solid non AT screen. My room has no ambient light in it so I also did not need super fancy screen material and I was not sitting super close either to see the weave. Your mileage may vary but I would suggest doing some research and finding out what you actually need for your specific room and the correct screen for the money. Unless money is no object! There are comparison pics of the screen materiel in my build thread if your interested.
lemonslush is online now  
post #31155 of 31155 Unread Today, 09:10 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Did you test either of the Falcon materials at that time? I kept my swatch of XD and put it up against the new horizon 4k material and they were pretty close to the same brightness...and the horizon material was way better from a weave standpoint.
Way better? ... you had me right up to that point my friend. But seriously, I considered Falcon when I last upgraded (must have had 8 screens in the HT) but found that Seymour (the devil I know ) with XD material was just a bit more and so I have been using them for the last couple of screens (they wear out really fast ). Chris has given very good support on the screens I purchased from him but my gut tells me Falcon is a comparable product (perhaps even way better).

As I recall, I never had a problem even when projecting on a textured white wall from 12'+ ft viewing distance so screens are a great place to DIY and save some cash for speakers.

HToM Extraordinary Evolution

Opinions are not facts.
RMK! is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
Gear in this thread - 215RT by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off