Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1075 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 10-24-2015, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Question to those of you with Noesis 215RT's, how many of you run them with no subs for movies? I've heard they basically have a captivator in them but I am curious how true that is.

Thanks!
I run them without subs most of the time. Anyone demoed or own these speakers knows it puts out lots of bass at full range without subs. I have no complaints about them including the mid bass in these speakers. But, if I wanna watch a heavy hitter like WOTW, TIH, or Mad Max. I definately turn on the subs. Right now I'm looking to push things more then what I already have. And I wouldn't know if the bass in these speakers perform like a vented Cap. But I believe seperate sub like the Cap cannot be compared to a speaker. Since the Cap does what's it's built for. Bass duty. Again though, these 215's puts out lots of more then satisfying bass. Trust me..
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Old 10-24-2015, 03:32 PM
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What in ceiling Atmos speakers are recommended when using JTR speakers? No DIY options please!
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Old 10-24-2015, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
It's nice to use tools that let you fine tune the response curve with a rapid iteration process, rather than trying to get there by tuning the sub gain and crossover point. I've found that using the sub gain and crossover point just doesn't give you enough control. Trying to find speakers that naturally give you what you want in your room is very difficult, since rooms are so different.

Also, when people struggle with mid-bass, in many cases, I think they are actually struggling with nulls or crossover settings.
Then again it just could be just plain upgradatitus that people go through all the time. Just like cars..

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Old 10-24-2015, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Question to those of you with Noesis 215RT's, how many of you run them with no subs for movies? I've heard they basically have a captivator in them but I am curious how true that is.

Thanks!
I run mine with subs always but I'm just about 100% movies.

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Old 10-24-2015, 10:29 PM
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What in ceiling Atmos speakers are recommended when using JTR speakers? No DIY options please!
With unlimited budget, I'll suggest 215RT or 215RM
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:40 PM
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With unlimited budget, I'll suggest 215RT or 215RM
Not quite sure I can hang those from the ceiling!
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:44 AM
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Not quite sure I can hang those from the ceiling!
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I hope it can withstand the weight
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:50 AM
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Not quite sure I can hang those from the ceiling!
Yeah, not sure I'd be comfortable hanging something that could kill people if it fell on them, although I see it in commercial venues.

Ideally, ceiling and surrounds should match as much as possible, for the best imaging.
High efficiency, wide dispersion characteristics, and ability to angle toward the MLP are also ideal.

I'd recommend any one of these to go with JTR mains:
1) JTR S8s
2) Seaton Sparks
3) Reaction Audio CX-8s
4) DIY Sound Group Volts or Concentric 8s (C8s if you want to minimize the DIY portion)

All these are close enough and capable enough that after running room correction, you will have a good match.

Some people like to run bigger speakers as surrounds, but these concentric models have better dispersion characteristics and give you the ability to use all matching speakers for surrounds + ceiling speakers.

For practical reasons, you may want speakers that can actually be mounted inside the ceiling. This is less ideal acoustically, but you can still do well. I think JBL makes some high efficiency, high output ceiling speakers. It will usually sound better to go with one that provides an enclosure inside the ceiling, but that's not a requirement.
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Inquired with Jeff yesterday about options with different subs to accompany my front stage 215 setup. He recommended a few. But I wanna inquire more other options with him when he has time. I know his busy. And yes, I'm in the market again.
I would think a pair of Growlers would fit your music needs to a tee. Tons of output in the frequency range you want for visceral impact with music. Since you have great HT subs you don't need subs that dig deep.

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Old 10-25-2015, 08:46 AM
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I remember seeing those bad boys... You don't happen to still have them, do you?
Yes I am selling them in the classifieds
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:50 AM
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Aw man.. Still having problems with your neighbor's reef? Man that those subs looks beastly.
No, out of respect I just toned it down. I know if I hooked up the SIHST's, I would be asking for more trouble. I have actually had the theater down for awhile changing components out and changing speakers around and such. We did a bit of a remodel over the summer and I stored allot of things in the theater so needless to say that it has been very quiet on my street for a couple of months now. That is about to change!
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:18 AM
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If you need any setup help let me know, I am no expert but can assist if need be.

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Old 10-25-2015, 09:23 AM
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No, out of respect I just toned it down. I know if I hooked up the SIHST's, I would be asking for more trouble. I have actually had the theater down for awhile changing components out and changing speakers around and such. We did a bit of a remodel over the summer and I stored allot of things in the theater so needless to say that it has been very quiet on my street for a couple of months now. That is about to change!
Hookup them SIHST's.Turn the dial to 11 and let the neighborhood have it. YEA! For a little while anyway lol
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:37 AM
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Yeah, not sure I'd be comfortable hanging something that could kill people if it fell on them, although I see it in commercial venues.

Ideally, ceiling and surrounds should match as much as possible, for the best imaging.
High efficiency, wide dispersion characteristics, and ability to angle toward the MLP are also ideal.

I'd recommend any one of these to go with JTR mains:
1) JTR S8s
2) Seaton Sparks
3) Reaction Audio CX-8s
4) DIY Sound Group Volts or Concentric 8s (C8s if you want to minimize the DIY portion)

All these are close enough and capable enough that after running room correction, you will have a good match.

Some people like to run bigger speakers as surrounds, but these concentric models have better dispersion characteristics and give you the ability to use all matching speakers for surrounds + ceiling speakers.

For practical reasons, you may want speakers that can actually be mounted inside the ceiling. This is less ideal acoustically, but you can still do well. I think JBL makes some high efficiency, high output ceiling speakers. It will usually sound better to go with one that provides an enclosure inside the ceiling, but that's not a requirement.
That's a pretty reasonable list. My JBL 8340a's do a good job for Atmos but they are large and require a room with some ceiling height ( I have 9' ceilings). I suppose the same could be said for all of the speakers on your list and with low clearance, in-ceiling speakers would be preferable. I think low frequency extension is also advisable and I am able to cross the JBL's @60hz. When I had JTR Slanted 8 Height speakers Audyssey always set the crossover on those to 60hz. I'm sure that was due to the ceiling boundary reinforcement. I would have Slanted 8's as my ceiling speakers if I hadn't come across a no-brainer deal on the JBL's. I will likey change them out at some point especially if Atmos and DTS-X catch on and become more standard as formats. Then, the timbre matching (or lack there of) issue will become more apparent.
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Question to those of you with Noesis 215RT's, how many of you run them with no subs for movies? I've heard they basically have a captivator in them but I am curious how true that is.

Thanks!
I did untill recently, but I plan on going back to just full range. It was difficult to control the bass full range. I used the inuke DSP, but they would still be overpowering bass at times and I got tired of adjusting. Jeff put up link awhile back about a converter that makes it possible to adjust the 215RT's with your subwoofer trims. I have not tried it yet, but I am going to eventually buy them and try it and run full range again. I have a smaller room and I get insane bass with movies full range!
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:25 AM
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Glad Jeff talked me out of the 215rts and in to the 212s, you guys are torturing yourselves trying to have your cake and eating it to. The full range vs high pass and subs thing is redundent, if you need more bass, turn the sub trim up and call it good. If you listen full range and need more bass, turn the volume up. If the bass isn't high enough for you full range, you should be using subs.

It takes lots of abnormal people to make things easy for normal people.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:37 AM
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Glad Jeff talked me out of the 215rts and in to the 212s, you guys are torturing yourselves trying to have your cake and eating it to. The full range vs high pass and subs thing is redundent, if you need more bass, turn the sub trim up and call it good. If you listen full range and need more bass, turn the volume up. If the bass isn't high enough for you full range, you should be using subs.
Been there.. Done all of that.. No cake eating here.. JTR owners are all beast! We eat steak and want more to get bigger.. Btw, have you heard how huge of a soundstage the 215's can dish out? Then add subs to that too.. Damn.. Trust me..
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:05 PM
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Been there.. Done all of that.. No cake eating here.. JTR owners are all beast! We eat steak and want more to get bigger.. Btw, have you heard how huge of a soundstage the 215's can dish out? Then add subs to that too.. Damn.. Trust me..
Atta boy Rod

But as an occasional Quiche and Quinoa eater () I also like a lean diet when it comes to sound (trim the fat). Now in my younger years I might have gone with subs plus 215's but now they provide all the bass I need/want. We re-watched the last 2 Batman movies this weekend and the bass was so intense we ended up running DK Rises at like -16. It was still very involving sound, just not overpowering. Just thought I'd offer a vegan perspective metaphorically speaking ...

BTW, that Heath Ledger Joker performance is one of my all time favorites. "I love this job"
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:17 PM
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@RMK does, not sure of any others.
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I run them without subs most of the time. Anyone demoed or own these speakers knows it puts out lots of bass at full range without subs. I have no complaints about them including the mid bass in these speakers. But, if I wanna watch a heavy hitter like WOTW, TIH, or Mad Max. I definately turn on the subs. Right now I'm looking to push things more then what I already have. And I wouldn't know if the bass in these speakers perform like a vented Cap. But I believe seperate sub like the Cap cannot be compared to a speaker. Since the Cap does what's it's built for. Bass duty. Again though, these 215's puts out lots of more then satisfying bass. Trust me..
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I run mine with subs always but I'm just about 100% movies.
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I did untill recently, but I plan on going back to just full range. It was difficult to control the bass full range. I used the inuke DSP, but they would still be overpowering bass at times and I got tired of adjusting. Jeff put up link awhile back about a converter that makes it possible to adjust the 215RT's with your subwoofer trims. I have not tried it yet, but I am going to eventually buy them and try it and run full range again. I have a smaller room and I get insane bass with movies full range!
Thanks for the responses guys! I have been looking at upgrading my subs recently (dual PSA xv15se's), and when I saw that the 215RT's basically have cap's in them I started to wonder about replacing my entire front stage with a pair of them. Figured I would essentially be getting one of the best speakers AND subs around all at once, which would be awesome!

Sounds like maybe that is not the case though.
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Atta boy Rod

But as an occasional Quiche and Quinoa eater () I also like a lean diet when it comes to sound (trim the fat). Now in my younger years I might have gone with subs plus 215's but now they provide all the bass I need/want. We re-watched the last 2 Batman movies this weekend and the bass was so intense we ended up running DK Rises at like -16. It was still very involving sound, just not overpowering. Just thought I'd offer a vegan perspective metaphorically speaking ...

BTW, that Heath Ledger Joker performance is one of my all time favorites. "I love this job"
I agree.. These 215's put out tremendous amount of bass without subs. Me, I think I'm goin true another mid life. I need more bass.. Haha.. Wait, that didn't sound right. Sounded like a dope addict! And when I'm done with all the bass things as I get older, I'll just pass them on to my son..
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:48 PM
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That's a pretty reasonable list. My JBL 8340a's do a good job for Atmos but they are large and require a room with some ceiling height ( I have 9' ceilings). I suppose the same could be said for all of the speakers on your list and with low clearance, in-ceiling speakers would be preferable. I think low frequency extension is also advisable and I am able to cross the JBL's @60hz. When I had JTR Slanted 8 Height speakers Audyssey always set the crossover on those to 60hz. I'm sure that was due to the ceiling boundary reinforcement. I would have Slanted 8's as my ceiling speakers if I hadn't come across a no-brainer deal on the JBL's. I will likey change them out at some point especially if Atmos and DTS-X catch on and become more standard as formats. Then, the timbre matching (or lack there of) issue will become more apparent.
Those do look nice!
Based on the specs, they are certainly capable of high output, including down lower than the other options.
On the other hand, they have narrower vertical dispersion. Possibly an issue for ceiling speakers in some rooms.
You certainly want that 60-120hz frequency range well covered somehow.
It can also be done well with subs.
It's common to see that range on the anemic side for less capable surround speakers that aren't properly reinforced by subs.
With this kind of stuff, it really helps to have good EQ tools, rather than simply adjusting subwoofer gain to sound good with the LCRs.
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Last edited by rcohen; 10-25-2015 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
if you need more bass, turn the sub trim up and call it good.
Actually, that is exactly what left me unsatisfied with bass for a long time. It turned out I needed more control than that to get results I was really happy with. Also, 4x corner loaded subs.
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Old 10-25-2015, 01:20 PM
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Those do look nice!
Based on the specs, they are certainly capable of high output, including down lower than the other options.
On the other hand, they have narrower vertical dispersion. Possibly an issue for ceiling speakers in some rooms.
You certainly want that 60-120hz frequency range well covered somehow.
It can also be done well with subs.
It's common to see that range on the anemic side for less capable surround speakers that aren't properly reinforced by subs.
With this kind of stuff, it really helps to have good EQ tools, rather than simply adjusting subwoofer gain to sound good with the LCRs.
Is that a pitch for Dirac?

J/K , if I could get Dirac in an SSP for a reasonable price I would and I will. You're right about the vertical dispersion of the JBL's and I just manage to get away with it due to placement and my 9' ceilings. The Slanted 8's would have been ideal for my room and I think about that often. It's only a matter of time before I correct that situation ...

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Old 10-25-2015, 01:27 PM
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Thanks for the responses guys! I have been looking at upgrading my subs recently (dual PSA xv15se's), and when I saw that the 215RT's basically have cap's in them I started to wonder about replacing my entire front stage with a pair of them. Figured I would essentially be getting one of the best speakers AND subs around all at once, which would be awesome!

Sounds like maybe that is not the case though.
I think this is a case of your hearing what you wanted to hear. What you should try and do is to hear these for yourself. There are enough of them scattered around the country to make that doable (Phoenix to Sacramento on Southwest is like <$200 RT). Then, there's always Hawaii (rhed) and who wouldn't want to go there for a demo.
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Old 10-25-2015, 01:29 PM
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Is that a pitch for Dirac?

J/K , if I could get Dirac in an SSP for a reasonable price I would and I will. You're right about the vertical dispersion of the JBL's and I just manage to get away with it due to placement and my 9' ceilings. The Slanted 8's would have been ideal for my room and I think about that often. It's only a matter of time before I correct that situation ...
I actually think that's half if not more of what Dirac adds.
My point was for Dirac or other tools that let you fine-tune the response curve for all speakers.
Even if tuning the sub gain gave you the ideal response for LCRs (unlikely), that's not going to be the ideal response for surrounds (unless you're running matching speakers all around).

Can't you just angle the JBLs right for the MLP?
They appear to be plenty capable.
I would expect the rest to just be angle and EQ.
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Old 10-25-2015, 01:30 PM
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I think the JBL Control 200 or 300 series may be the direction I go for Atmos. I have a low ceiling so nothing can be hung, it has to be recessed in ceiling.

So I'm thinking the LCR 215RT powered by Crown 1000 dsi amps with 1 amp per speaker, the 4 Single 8LP possibly powered by my new Marantz 7702mkii and then the 4 in ceiling Atmos JBL Control series also powered by the Marantz.

I do have 2 CHT 18.2 penciled in between the LCR and also 4 18.1 CHT subs just in case, amps to be decided yet. My room is relatively small, 13x21x7 3/4. I have a feeling the 215RT's won't need much help at all getting me that concert feeling I want.
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Old 10-25-2015, 01:37 PM
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I think the JBL Control 200 or 300 series may be the direction I go for Atmos. I have a low ceiling so nothing can be hung, it has to be recessed in ceiling.

So I'm thinking the LCR 215RT powered by Crown 1000 dsi amps with 1 amp per speaker, the 4 Single 8LP possibly powered by my new Marantz 7702mkii and then the 4 in ceiling Atmos JBL Control series also powered by the Marantz.

I do have 2 CHT 18.2 penciled in between the LCR and also 4 18.1 CHT subs just in case, amps to be decided yet. My room is relatively small, 13x21x7 3/4. I have a feeling the 215RT's won't need much help at all getting me that concert feeling I want.
Sounds good (get the JBL with the back can) but the Marantz is a Surround Sound Processor only (no amps section). If you're using the Marantz AV7702 MKII look at the Bheringer Inuke NU46000 (4 channels for $350) amp(s).

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Old 10-25-2015, 01:40 PM
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Sounds good but the Marantz is a Surround Sound Processor only (no amps section). If you're using the Marantz AV7702 MKII look at the Bheringer Inuke NU46000 (4 channels for $350) amp(s).
LOL. You shouldn't have told me that. Would have been a good laugh trying to wire up the surround and Atmos speakers to the Marantz!!
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Old 10-25-2015, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I think this is a case of your hearing what you wanted to hear. What you should try and do is to hear these for yourself. There are enough of them scattered around the country to make that doable (Phoenix to Sacramento on Southwest is like <$200 RT). Then, there's always Hawaii (rhed) and who wouldn't want to go there for a demo.
Quite the opposite actually, I was hoping to hear "Hell yeah they output bass like a ported cap. You would be stupid to not buy them." Haha.

I've heard the 212's so I know generally what to expect, but obviously I don't know what sort of low end they are capable of. I am up in the Phoenix area all the time and it would be awesome to get a demo.
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Old 10-25-2015, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
Glad Jeff talked me out of the 215rts and in to the 212s, you guys are torturing yourselves trying to have your cake and eating it to. The full range vs high pass and subs thing is redundent, if you need more bass, turn the sub trim up and call it good. If you listen full range and need more bass, turn the volume up. If the bass isn't high enough for you full range, you should be using subs.
Not sure about this comment as every owner is very different and what may work for you does not work well with others. To let you know, most of then present 215RT owners were 212HT owners and some even further back to Triple 8's and Triple 12's. I currently have both the 212HT's and 215RT's and if I had to give a pair back, it would be the 212HT's. I am not saying that the 212HT's are bad, but the sound stage on the 215RT's is HUGE! Overtime some of the 212HT owners wanted a bit more midbass and the 215 surely took care of that, not to mention a speaker that could do full range with no subs. Also running full range, I don't think there are many that need more bass, I mean I have heard a couple say that maybe they needed more but for the most part, with music, I think everyone is happy. I was actually very happy running full range for both music and movies but if I had a bigger room, I surly would need more bass for movies. The 215RT's have worked out for some and not for others, but I think most are not giving up their 215RT's anytime soon!
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Last edited by Reefdvr27; 10-25-2015 at 04:59 PM.
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