Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1078 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32311 of 37683 Old 10-27-2015, 07:23 PM
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[QUOTE=beastaudio;38434841]The answer to this^^^^^^^ is THS VVVVVVVV





This is silly. I venture a guess that 90% of the guys unhappy with their midbass either haven't spent the time properly integrating their systems, or if so, haven't given a little bump to their "Midbass" area. Bump 60hz all day long. That ain't midbass. 4 s2's......aka EIGHT sealed 18's are capable enough to get you all the punch you might need in a domestic space. Guys that professionally calibrate stuff are sitting back laughing at this right now. 215's, 4s2's, and just for fun, a pair of OS pro's or growlers? That's so overkill it's not even funny, and you guys know what I run. You can't be calling out fools for spending $4,000 on audio interconnects and speaker wire if you too are just pissing the same amount away on more subs that won't do anything to your systems if not calibrated to the rest of the system properly...




Beast, I agree with the need to properly align and set up the subs with the mains, paying special attention to the xo region. Then dialing in a FR curve to ones tastes. This is why I think the 215 is a good choice for many who don't want to spend the time measuring and tweaking or don't get good results from an auto eq system.

As far as overkill, that really comes down to listening habits and the room environnment. We were enjoying the Eagles blu ray the other day at +15dB with a +15dB house curve slowly rising from 150hz to 35hz. That is 135dB at 40hz @ the MLP! Do think this can be accomplished with the 215's? I know in my room it will not, don't even need to measure 215's in my room to figure that one out. 215's are "only" 95dB sensitive and handle 2000 watts. They will give up 6dB to the 212HTR's all the way down to 80hz. I think in my room the 215 would be capable of about +5dB with this house curve at this listening distance (125dB max). Still good, but not what I am looking for.

The biggest problem I see with large SPL subs is it generally takes more time and care to get the most out of them. IMHO REW or other measurment software is a must in large sub set ups.
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post #32312 of 37683 Old 10-27-2015, 08:08 PM
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[quote=lbrown105;38444161]
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The answer to this^^^^^^^ is THS VVVVVVVV

This is silly. I venture a guess that 90% of the guys unhappy with their midbass either haven't spent the time properly integrating their systems, or if so, haven't given a little bump to their "Midbass" area. Bump 60hz all day long. That ain't midbass. 4 s2's......aka EIGHT sealed 18's are capable enough to get you all the punch you might need in a domestic space. Guys that professionally calibrate stuff are sitting back laughing at this right now. 215's, 4s2's, and just for fun, a pair of OS pro's or growlers? That's so overkill it's not even funny, and you guys know what I run. You can't be calling out fools for spending $4,000 on audio interconnects and speaker wire if you too are just pissing the same amount away on more subs that won't do anything to your systems if not calibrated to the rest of the system properly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Beast, I agree with the need to properly align and set up the subs with the mains, paying special attention to the xo region. Then dialing in a FR curve to ones tastes. This is why I think the 215 is a good choice for many who don't want to spend the time measuring and tweaking or don't get good results from an auto eq system.

As far as overkill, that really comes down to listening habits and the room environnment. We were enjoying the Eagles blu ray the other day at +15dB with a +15dB house curve slowly rising from 150hz to 35hz. That is 135dB at 40hz @ the MLP! Do think this can be accomplished with the 215's? I know in my room it will not, don't even need to measure 215's in my room to figure that one out. 215's are "only" 95dB sensitive and handle 2000 watts. They will give up 6dB to the 212HTR's all the way down to 80hz. I think in my room the 215 would be capable of about +5dB with this house curve at this listening distance (125dB max). Still good, but not what I am looking for.

The biggest problem I see with large SPL subs is it generally takes more time and care to get the most out of them. IMHO REW or other measurment software is a must in large sub set ups.
135db at MLP? Man you JTR guys are nuts. That HAS to cause long term hearing damage!
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post #32313 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 05:13 AM
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[quote=Magibeg;38445177]
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
[I]

135db at MLP? Man you JTR guys are nuts. That HAS to cause long term hearing damage!
What did you say?
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post #32314 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
I was referring to the xlr balanced outs from his Marantz, yes you could cut the wires on one end of the cable and make it work with the dsi but he has stated not wanting diy anything a few times, wants plug n play.
Ok that is what I was thinking. And in my book cutting wires is not DIY =) But fair enough!
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post #32315 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 06:12 AM
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[quote=Magibeg;38445177]
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
[I]

135db at MLP? Man you JTR guys are nuts. That HAS to cause long term hearing damage!
When you have a system that is capable of playing to these levels there is a temptation (on occasion) to go there. It's very primal and not unlike things in nature like a thunderclap directly overhead or a jet taking off. Now why anyone would want to play the F-ing Eagles at 135db is another very good question ...

Since I "wimped out" with 215RT's and their measly 125db output, I can no longer experience the shock and awe of +15 and 135. I really miss hearing James Taylor's Sweet Baby James at 135db.
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post #32316 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 06:59 AM
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[quote=RMK!;38452089]
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post

When you have a system that is capable of playing to these levels there is a temptation (on occasion) to go there. It's very primal and not unlike things in nature like a thunderclap directly overhead or a jet taking off. Now why anyone would want to play the F-ing Eagles at 135db is another very good question ...

Since I "wimped out" with 215RT's and their measly 125db output, I can no longer experience the shock and awe of +15 and 135. I really miss hearing James Taylor's Sweet Baby James at 135db.
Hotel California on BR sounds and looks really good. It's one of my go-to's when listening loudly.

Wait, these 215RT's I just ordered only reach 125db???
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post #32317 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 07:45 AM
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[quote=SeaNile;38453369]
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hotel California on BR sounds and looks really good. It's one of my go-to's when listening loudly.

Wait, these 215RT's I just ordered only reach 125db???
Lbrown is slightly demented by his extreme listening habits. Carp (the metal head) would provide a good reference point for 215RT concert loud.
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post #32318 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 08:20 AM
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In many cases when people say that typical speakers play "loud enough" they don't understand the benefit of great dynamics.
In the case of 215RTs with kilowatt amps, they honestly do play loud enough!
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post #32319 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 08:31 AM
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Selling my MiniDSP Nano AVR in the classifieds if anyone in interested. Allows house curves to be made on top of room correction software that doesn't have any, or if you have a mic and REW you can use to correct a room as well with its functionality.
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post #32320 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 09:08 AM
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Another step towards completion. Ordered 4 JBL 328C for in ceiling Atmos speakers. I'll use 4 channels from my unused Emotiva XPA-5 for the ceiling.
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post #32321 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
In many cases when people say that typical speakers play "loud enough" they don't understand the benefit of great dynamics.
In the case of 215RTs with kilowatt amps, they honestly do play loud enough!
As a 215 owner I will attest to the fact that they play loud enough. I don't feel I'm leaving any dynamics on the table.

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post #32322 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 10:05 AM
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[quote=SeaNile;38453369]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hotel California on BR sounds and looks really good. It's one of my go-to's when listening loudly.

Wait, these 215RT's I just ordered only reach 125db???
Yeah, you may need to order 3 more and double down on each channel.
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post #32323 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 10:53 AM
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[quote=RMK!;38454697]
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Lbrown is slightly demented by his extreme listening habits. Carp (the metal head) would provide a good reference point for 215RT concert loud.
It all depends on the set up and room too. I have heard systems that hurt my ears at 105dB even for one song. Maybe forum member SOWK can comment because he was in the room during the Eagles demo. Normally he does not go above reference but if I recall correctly he thought it was still very good at +15MVand the +15 house curve. Personally I think getting the right FR, decay and diffusion plays a huge part in how good it will sound loud.

Ear damage... now that is another story. Remember though short bursts is the key, not +15 for multiple songs. As RMK said, when a door slams it can easily hit 140dB but I don't recall anyone going deaf from that. You have to be careful with duration and SPL together, as in SPL X duration = hearing loss risk.
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post #32324 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 10:59 AM
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I'm getting the feeling that some type of miniDSP type thing will be needed. This is all quickly going over my head.

Might have to hire someone to set up my theater correctly.


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post #32325 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
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Selling my MiniDSP Nano AVR in the classifieds if anyone in interested. Allows house curves to be made on top of room correction software that doesn't have any, or if you have a mic and REW you can use to correct a room as well with its functionality.
I will take it!! let me know.
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Anyone interested in Crown XLS-1500's, Amazon has a great price on them now @ $199.


http://www.amazon.com/Crown-DriveCor...crown+xls+1500

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post #32327 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 04:48 PM
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[quote=lbrown105;38461753]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
It all depends on the set up and room too. I have heard systems that hurt my ears at 105dB even for one song. Maybe forum member SOWK can comment because he was in the room during the Eagles demo. Normally he does not go above reference but if I recall correctly he thought it was still very good at +15MVand the +15 house curve. Personally I think getting the right FR, decay and diffusion plays a huge part in how good it will sound loud.

Ear damage... now that is another story. Remember though short bursts is the key, not +15 for multiple songs. As RMK said, when a door slams it can easily hit 140dB but I don't recall anyone going deaf from that. You have to be careful with duration and SPL together, as in SPL X duration = hearing loss risk.
Ultimately though it doesn't really matter how loud it sounds, what matters is how loud it is. Yea for a split second a slammed door can hit 140dB but that's a very tiny amount of time. I guess I'm just a wuss listening at -15 lol (with bass about 6dB hot)
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post #32328 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 05:17 PM
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[quote=Magibeg;38472873]
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Ultimately though it doesn't really matter how loud it sounds, what matters is how loud it is. Yea for a split second a slammed door can hit 140dB but that's a very tiny amount of time. I guess I'm just a wuss listening at -15 lol (with bass about 6dB hot)
it doesn't make you a wuss and I am not demented for listening loud as someone stated. The point about the door slamming demonstrates the time element as part of the equation in hearing damage. Even the song and demos we play are not constant tones and some have higher or lower avg SPL levels with higher or lower peaks.

I actually think how loud something sounds is one indicator for where it is starting to hurt my ears (later ringing), can't speak for anyone else though. Play a constant 1khz tone at 80hz for a few minutes and to me that hurts my ears. Hearing the snap of a snare drum at 115dB or hit from a kick drum at 125dB does not hurt my ears at all of the signal is not clipping anywhere in the chain. This is why I find the Eagles blu ray good for demo. Not my favorite band, but very dynamic clean recording.

Now after saying all this, you and RMK are needed in the Bose thread.
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post #32329 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 05:53 PM
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It it just me or is every post with quotes screwed up?
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post #32330 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 06:04 PM
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^that was I was thinking. It shows the name for the quote but it looks like it is coming frm someone else.
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Quote:
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It it just me or is every post with quotes screwed up?
You mean you didn't quote yourself using SeaNile's words? . The forum is acting pretty wonky lately.

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You mean you didn't quote yourself using SeaNile's words? . The forum is acting pretty wonky lately.
Just about every post I make it says I have to wait 10 seconds between post? Same with PMs! It has been doing it for a few weeks now.
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Just about every post I make it says I have to wait 10 seconds between post? Same with PMs! It has been doing it for a few weeks now.
Holy crap man, how fast are posting??? LOL.
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post #32334 of 37683 Old 10-28-2015, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
DSI 1000s do not have rca or balanced inputs.
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Right you are. Those won't work. The search continues!

I'd like to run balanced since I went with the Marantz 7702MKii.


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The DSi series amps do have balanced, I made an XLR to Phoenix cable. You can even buy them if you want, B&H Photo and Parts Express has them I think. Screwing into the Pnoenix connectors is easy and they secure very nice too. I have an Onkyo PR5508 Pre doing balanced to the DSi amps.

Unless you want to use the Audio Architect software and DSP capability of the DSi amp there in no reason to get them. XLS 1500 is a no brainer for amps right now, but the DSP capability on the DSi series looks pretty nice. I have not used it/played around with it yet but watched a couple videos and seen several screen shots and it certainly looks nice. Slightly lower noise floor than the XLS also, and I think at $499 shipped its not crazy get it for a little/bit more.

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post #32335 of 37683 Old 10-29-2015, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
The DSi series amps do have balanced, I made an XLR to Phoenix cable. You can even buy them if you want, B&H Photo and Parts Express has them I think. Screwing into the Pnoenix connectors is easy and they secure very nice too. I have an Onkyo PR5508 Pre doing balanced to the DSi amps.

Unless you want to use the Audio Architect software and DSP capability of the DSi amp there in no reason to get them. XLS 1500 is a no brainer for amps right now, but the DSP capability on the DSi series looks pretty nice. I have not used it/played around with it yet but watched a couple videos and seen several screen shots and it certainly looks nice. Slightly lower noise floor than the XLS also, and I think at $499 shipped its not crazy get it for a little/bit more.
He was referring to his xlr connectors on his Marantz, I hastily posted no balanced connectors when I should have posted no balanced xlr.

I corrected my answer and reasoning in post #32405
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You mean you didn't quote yourself using SeaNile's words? . The forum is acting pretty wonky lately.
I oft quote myself and have thrown my shoulder out numerous times patting myself on the back.
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post #32337 of 37683 Old 10-29-2015, 07:22 AM
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Damn, looks like they fixed the issue as I was hoping that ^ would show as your post.

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post #32338 of 37683 Old 10-29-2015, 09:36 AM
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Holy crap man, how fast are posting??? LOL.
Mfusick fast? That dude can type
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakquency View Post
He was referring to his xlr connectors on his Marantz, I hastily posted no balanced connectors when I should have posted no balanced xlr.

I corrected my answer and reasoning in post #32405
Yea the DSi amps don't have XLR in correct but...Seanile responded it would not work because he wanted to run balanced from his Pre amp to amps when in fact he can do so with the DSi series amps. I do the exact setup. I made my XLR to Phoenix but you can buy them if you don't want to make them so no DIY necessary. I mean cutting off an XLR connector and twisting the ground strands up, stripping a tad off the other two and screwing into the Phoenix literally takes 90 seconds. And like I said I am pleasantly surprised how solid the Phoenix connectors hold the three wires. I tried to pull them out with a lot of pull but nothing. Anyway unless you plan to use Audio Architect there in no reason to buy the DSi amps unless you have the specific JBL speakers with Harman's developed preset for that speaker. Or want to pay a couple hundred extra for a minimal noise floor difference

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