Official JTR speaker thread - Page 109 - AVS Forum
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post #3241 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 10:31 AM
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^ Thanks for quoting my pre-edited response. Subsequently, I upgraded my status from clueless to novice ...


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post #3242 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 10:34 AM
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Sounds better, doesn't it? In my younger days, when I pumped gas, I referred to myself as a Petroleum Transfer Engineer
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post #3243 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

That's not a FR graph, it's RT60. The 80 dB is simply the scale and as I said, the initial pulse is, I believe, too low to be useful.

Ok in that case, I have no experience with RT60 so I can't comment on the graph.
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post #3244 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 12:53 PM
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Where is resident XTZ expert Craig John?
Guy is like a cop, never around when you need him.


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post #3245 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 12:57 PM
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Hey guys, I am having a shootout. I just ordered JTR sealed triple 8's and a pair of Captivator 1000's.
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post #3246 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Hey guys, I am having a shootout. I just ordered JTR sealed triple 8's and a pair of Captivator 1000's.

You are one crazy guy MK . Interesting choice re the Cap 1000's vs un-powered Cap.

Besides the JTR's what are the products? Looking forward to you comments.


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post #3247 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You are one crazy guy MK . Interesting choice re the Cap 1000's vs un-powered Cap.

Besides the JTR's what are the products? Looking forward to you comments.

Speakers are:
Triad In room golds(older model)
M&K S-5000's
eD c12's
CHT Sho-10's(new design)
BFM DR-200's
JTR's

With the Caps I figured if I bought 2 passive with the Behringer amp it was the same money and power as 2 Cap 1000's with built in DSP and limiters. The behringer would not use all of the Caps potential so it makes sense to me. I am comparing all these for a friend who will buy his favorite and then I will keep or buy mine as well. I started a shootout thread and I will post all info there.
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post #3248 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 02:00 PM
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The 1000's are pretty much nerfed regular caps are they not? I don't think they are the same driver.

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post #3249 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The 1000's are pretty much nerfed regular caps are they not? I don't think they are the same driver.

Different driver same sound.
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post #3250 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 02:34 PM
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rgr that. Should be interesting to see what they can do! i don't think I've seen someone yet with one.
Sounds like it would be quite the get together. I'd love to hear the 4 x F20's at once, you know if I wasn't in Canada and all lol

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post #3251 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

rgr that. Should be interesting to see what they can do! i don't think I've seen someone yet with one.
Sounds like it would be quite the get together. I'd love to hear the 4 x F20's at once, you know if I wasn't in Canada and all lol

I recently purchased 2 Captivator 1000's. I am in the process of getting them setup and getting REW back in working order. It was a real job just getting these beasts down to the basement!

I upgraded from a HSU vtf3 mk3. I have not put them to any real test yet, but we did have a movie night with my kids and watched despicable me and we were all blown away. They are awesome! I have also listened to some various music and they are very articulate and clean. Can't wait to get them setup and blended with my other speakers.

I will probably start a new thread when I have everything in order. I have been taking pictures, etc to share when I can.

For me it was much simpler to buy the 1000 because it was more "Move in ready". I only have so much time to devote to this hobby and did not want to mess with filters, pro amps and fan mods, etc. OK, I am lazy. I am OK with that. I did want to purchase subwoofers that would not leave me wanting and I did want 2 for the most even response. So far I am very pleased with them and I know they will only get better.

More to come.
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post #3252 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 03:57 PM
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They will make the HSU seem like a toy by comparison.
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post #3253 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

I recently purchased 2 Captivator 1000's. I am in the process of getting them setup and getting REW back in working order. It was a real job just getting these beasts down to the basement!

I upgraded from a HSU vtf3 mk3. I have not put them to any real test yet, but we did have a movie night with my kids and watched despicable me and we were all blown away. They are awesome! I have also listened to some various music and they are very articulate and clean. Can't wait to get them setup and blended with my other speakers.

I will probably start a new thread when I have everything in order. I have been taking pictures, etc to share when I can.

For me it was much simpler to buy the 1000 because it was more "Move in ready". I only have so much time to devote to this hobby and did not want to mess with filters, pro amps and fan mods, etc. OK, I am lazy. I am OK with that. I did want to purchase subwoofers that would not leave me wanting and I did want 2 for the most even response. So far I am very pleased with them and I know they will only get better.

More to come.

Cool man! Get some pics up! I wasnt' saying that the 1000's were a bad choice, I couldn't remember if they were totally different drivers, or if they were regular caps drivers, just nerfed.

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post #3254 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

The latest Triple 8's use a new CD and crossover and do provide more resolution/detail in the high frequencies. So for music priority systems, they would be preferred. For HT applications they are too close to call (IMHO).


Thanks RMK!

As always, I appreciate the fact that you take the time to respond to post from folks that are not "regulars"

These will be in my basement setup so about 99.9% HT use.
Now I've been enticed by the same seller to take his pair of slant 8s off his hands for a very reasonable price !!!
I am going to be watching and hearing movies on a whole new level. Of course, I will be enjoying them with Ramen noodles and kool-aid for months to come !

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post #3255 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkzy56 View Post

Thanks RMK!

As always, I appreciate the fact that you take the time to respond to post from folks that are not "regulars"

These will be in my basement setup so about 99.9% HT use.
Now I've been enticed by the same seller to take his pair of slant 8s off his hands for a very reasonable price !!!
I am going to be watching and hearing movies on a whole new level. Of course, I will be enjoying them with Ramen noodles and kool-aid for months to come !

Man's gotta have priorities and there's nothing wrong with Ramen and kool-aid ...


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If I introduce enough members to the club I should get to come back in ;(

Are you thinking about buying back in?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Hey guys, I am having a shootout. I just ordered JTR sealed triple 8's and a pair of Captivator 1000's.

MK, you are a very entertaining guy. Always something new and if you turn your head you can miss a whole system change.
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post #3258 of 23856 Old 08-11-2011, 08:43 PM
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I am especially interested in the results of the T8s and Sho10s. I am wondering which loudspeaker can produce more high end clarity and detail. MK you are a maniac..........but I like it!!!
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post #3259 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 06:42 AM
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I know the sub thread is more appropriate for this question but I'll go ahead and ask here anyway....

1 passive Cap (powered by EP4000) vs. 2 Cap 1000 vs. 1 powered Cap

Pairing these up with my T12 across front soundstage, what do you think?
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post #3260 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

I know the sub thread is more appropriate for this question but I'll go ahead and ask here anyway....

1 passive Cap (powered by EP4000) vs. 2 Cap 1000

Pairing these up with my T12 across front soundstage, what do you think?

Two Cap 1000's should outperform one Cap/Behringer. The advantage of the Cap/Behringer would be the possibility of future upgrading. You could later add another Cap, stronger amps, etc.
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post #3261 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Two Cap 1000's should outperform one Cap/Behringer. The advantage of the Cap/Behringer would be the possibility of future upgrading. You could later add another Cap, stronger amps, etc.

What do you think about 2 Cap 1000's vs. 1 powered Cap since the cost would come out to about the same?
My room is a huge media room - 15' x 8' x 50'
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post #3262 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

What do you think about 2 Cap 1000's vs. 1 powered Cap since the cost would come out to about the same?
My room is a huge media room - 15' x 8' x 50'

That's a tough question. The two Cap 1000's are very likely to produce a better room response. As far as output goes, it's a tough call.

Unless you would be ok with just optimizing one main seating position, I'd think the Cap 1000 pair would give better overall results.
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post #3263 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Where is resident XTZ expert Craig John?
Guy is like a cop, never around when you need him.

Never around when you need me???? I'm at your beck and call!!!

Your xtz graphs look pretty good. Let me take them in order:





I assume this is pre- and post- Audyssey. If so, it appears that Audyssey reduced the hump at 50 Hz. That hump doesn't look so terrible on the FR chart, but it's obvious on the ETF chart that it is a significant resonance as displayed by the prolonged red/yellow/cyan at that frequency band. Audyssey not only reduced it in the frequency domain, it also improved the time domain response. There is another resonance at about 28 Hz that is significantly reduced by Audyssey. There is also a resonance at about 100 Hz that is hardly impacted by Audyssey in either the frequency or time domains. Which version of Audyssey do you have?

To read the ETF graph, the frequencies are on the left axis, time is on the bottom axis and the "level" is represented by the color. Pink/purple/red is only slightly below the initial, direct level. Cyan and blue represent reduced levels and dark blue represents virtually complete reduction of the SPL at a given frequency. If you read the chart left to right, it depicts the reduction in SPL by frequency over time.

You can jump back and forth between the FR graph and the ETF graph by clicking on the one in the upper right corner. Viewing the ETF graph in full resolution will make the detail about the time domain response easier to see.

You will get better information by measuring at higher levels. Measuring with xtz at average levels above 60 dB will give more appropriate information. Here is Kal Rubinson's explanation of the level settings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18963360

RTA's:





Are these 2-channel graphs? If so, you want to redo these as single channel graphs. Also, you want to aim the mic towards the speaker you're measuring.

In addition, there is a button in the upper right called "Listen." Hit that button with nothing playing and you can measure the background noise level in your room. Then try to get the signal 60 dB above that for the RT-60 measurements. You need that much level in order to measure 60 dB of decay.

You might find this post helpful for an explanation of the decay charts:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19010304

Both of those posts are from the "official" xtz thread. If you have not done so, you may want to read through it.

Have fun with it!

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #3264 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 10:44 AM
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After reading the manual (RTFM stupid) I have a slightly better understanding of XTZ.

I positioned the mic to the true sweet spot and ran several sweeps. I had a strong room mode @ 50hz until I started adjusting the distances for the subs. Audyssey had set them at 25' and .6" respectively even though they are both approx 12' from the LP. I moved them to 12' and the room mode as gone. Still have great bass energy and after listening to some familiar music I'm happy with the new settings. I may re-run Audyssey and tweak the FR with the Pro Kit but it is sounding very good right now.

We are never really completely happy, are we ...





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post #3265 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 10:52 AM
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More homework ... great ...

Using the previous gen Audyssey Mulit EQ XT and won't touch the new ver until they work out some issues with Integra/Onkyo. Have the Pro Kit for fine tuning.

Thanks for the info and links Craig, you are the man ...

Sorry for the OT fellas, I'll take any further expeirimental graphing to the XTZ Thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Never around when you need me???? I'm at your beck and call!!!

Your xtz graphs look pretty good. Let me take them in order:





I assume this is pre- and post- Audyssey. If so, it appears that Audyssey reduced the hump at 50 Hz. That hump doesn't look so terrible on the FR chart, but it's obvious on the ETF chart that it is a significant resonance as displayed by the prolonged red/yellow/cyan at that frequency band. Audyssey not only reduced it in the frequency domain, it also improved the time domain response. There is another resonance at about 28 Hz that is significantly reduced by Audyssey. There is also a resonance at about 100 Hz that is hardly impacted by Audyssey in either the frequency or time domains. Which version of Audyssey do you have?

To read the ETF graph, the frequencies are on the left axis, time is on the bottom axis and the "level" is represented by the color. Pink/purple/red is only slightly below the initial, direct level. Cyan and blue represent reduced levels and dark blue represents virtually complete reduction of the SPL at a given frequency. If you read the chart left to right, it depicts the reduction in SPL by frequency over time.

You can jump back and forth between the FR graph and the ETF graph by clicking on the one in the upper right corner. Viewing the ETF graph in full resolution will make the detail about the time domain response easier to see.

You will get better information by measuring at higher levels. Measuring with xtz at average levels above 60 dB will give more appropriate information. Here is Kal Rubinson's explanation of the level settings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18963360

RTA's:





Are these 2-channel graphs? If so, you want to redo these as single channel graphs. Also, you want to aim the mic towards the speaker you're measuring.

In addition, there is a button in the upper right called "Listen." Hit that button with nothing playing and you can measure the background noise level in your room. Then try to get the signal 60 dB above that for the RT-60 measurements. You need that much level in order to measure 60 dB of decay.

You might find this post helpful for an explanation of the decay charts:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19010304

Both of those posts are from the "official" xtz thread. If you have not done so, you may want to read through it.

Have fun with it!

Craig



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post #3266 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

What do you think about 2 Cap 1000's vs. 1 powered Cap since the cost would come out to about the same?
My room is a huge media room - 15' x 8' x 50'

IMO you'd be better off buy 2 unpowered caps and a ep4000 or 2. It would be about $400-$500 more but in the end, you'd have a superior setup.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #3267 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

IMO you'd be better off buy 2 unpowered caps and a ep4000 or 2. It would be about $400-$500 more but in the end, you'd have a superior setup.

Eq and an HP filter would be needed as well.
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post #3268 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 01:56 PM
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add another $40-$100 depending on what you get. You don't need a eq, thousands of subs come with out them and HP could be found for as little as $40. Or a mic 2000 or similar can be found used for fairly cheap.

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post #3269 of 23856 Old 08-12-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

add another $40-$100 depending on what you get. You don't need a eq, thousands of subs come with out them and HP could be found for as little as $40. Or a mic 2000 or similar can be found used for fairly cheap.

The need for eq depends on room conditions. The powered Caps are heavily eq'd to a flat ground plane response. The unpowered Caps are not flat, but have a very strong mid bass rise. With a room that happens to compliment the uneven response of the raw Cap, perhaps no eq is fine. In a very large or an open room, the mid bass might be very prominent compared with the deeper bass without eq.
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post #3270 of 23856 Old 08-14-2011, 07:51 AM
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hey there everyone..
I'm a convert , never personally owned decent speakers , I'm new to the audiophile world. In my home we I have KEF floorstanding Speakers dont remember what model , klipsch KLF 30's and previously also had some Polk RTi A9 & A7's , lots of Bose here and there..

Recently received my Triple 8's...
Sadly bought the Triple 8's for my small bedroom (16x15) , I so regret not getting the Triple 12's..I originally wanted those but the duty , weight/shipping chargers , the mega fear of damage , along with my friend who ordered them for me and my lack of experience with these speakers set me towards sticking to the idea of simply getting Triple 8's..
I decided to buy JTR speakers after reading the many threads about them both here and else where but mainly based on the user reviews/experiences here..
All this thirst for speakers began after I herd some excellent $$$$$$$ speakers at a club.. like $$$$$$$
I also had to beat my brother's KLF 30's and my cheesy Polk A7 wasn't a contender..

Was about to get the Klipsch Ultra 2 since it was available locally ...
But I landed bent on getting JTR's , didnt have alot of cash on me..
I'm running them with horrible cables , an Onkyo 9755 (Stereo 300wpc) :S..
Speakers using cheap straight monster cables and have a 3$ crappy RCA cable hooked to my pc.

Even still , simply put they're amazing.. far better sounding then any speaker I've herd in anyone's home , I cant compare them to my benchmark speakers because my amp is weak and my wiring sucks and it's been 4 years since I last herd those (Club Speakers).. I dont want to cross the line by saying my T8's sound better
Even tho as a first impression I felt a dip/loss in bass compared to all the other speakers I own but I honestly dont care about that because I believe these speakers were built to produce excellent sound and produce bass differently , if I want bass I should get a separate sub..
You get bass but not the window rattling sort that booms/punches ur room but hard sound producing base.. but the bass is very powerful in it's own right , it wont break or distort @ really high volume , unlike most other speakers I've known..
As for sound , I dont have the vocabulary to describe how amazing it is..
These speakers are perfect , I cant imagine what the T12's would sound like.. I knew I'd feel this way.. :S

When I tried a Diamondback Platinum PC on my ThermalTake Computer Power supply (btw using a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe Soundcard) , I mean these speakers started to sound like I was at the cinema..
Hopefully in the end , I'll know more about what amp to get and what wires to match my speakers with..
I'm a complete newbie..

I believe these speakers are superb for music , equally if not better then it is with movies.
I remember reading people else where saying how the JTR's weren't great for music..
I've actually started listening to music many hours each day because it has now become an experience..
My thanks to all you guys for guiding me in the right direction..
RMK! your thread is what raised the first eyebrow !
Jeff , your God sent.. I wish you could give discounts
I'd have the Captivator & 3xT12's

thank you
(Do excuse my crappy english)
Rexxen is offline  
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