Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1096 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32851 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
True, but I sold my cookie cutter house and moved to rural part of FL, "good old boy" territory..closest neighbor 2 acres away!
Keep it OS friendly!
That's good...Luckily, since my HT is in the basement below ground level, my neighbors still can't hear anything...at least I've never had a complaint during very loud sessions...our homes are 40ft apart on the HT side. During a GTG, I went outside and the guys were blasting the volume...and even with a small 1x3' window located in the HT space, it wasn't muffled sound at most...probably also helps that 3 sides of the HT are enclosed in concrete foundation.

But for me, sealed rooms are for others in the home...neighbors I don't worry about...unless your name is @Reefdvr27 ...and my shifters have kept me lazy and reluctant to actually go through the cost of sealing the room...There's really not enough times where I wish it was sealed..
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post #32852 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 09:23 AM
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I hear ya! OS friendly distance
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post #32853 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
True, but I sold my cookie cutter house and moved to rural part of FL, "good old boy" territory..closest neighbor 2 acres away!
Keep it OS friendly!
Nothing wrong with that, IMO that is how people should live together. Just close enough to see them, but far enough that you don't have to talk to them. I told my wife I want to live in the middle of 50 acres and build a moat around my next home! I was looking at several properties awhile back and allot of them were 50-60 acre lots out in western PA. That is what you call "Bass Country"
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post #32854 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Nothing wrong with that, IMO that is how people should live together. Just close enough to see them, but far enough that you don't have to talk to them. I told my wife I want to live in the middle of 50 acres and build a moat around my next home! I was looking at several properties awhile back and allot of them were 50-60 acre lots out in western PA. That is what you call "Bass Country"
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post #32855 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Nothing wrong with that, IMO that is how people should live together. Just close enough to see them, but far enough that you don't have to talk to them. I told my wife I want to live in the middle of 50 acres and build a moat around my next home! I was looking at several properties awhile back and allot of them were 50-60 acre lots out in western PA. That is what you call "Bass Country"
Western PA?

Come on out!!
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post #32856 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I noticed the stereo listening sweet spot for the 215RT's is definitely with my head at the horn's center height wise and I felt the same with the 212's. They throw a huge sound stage well outside the speakers and the imaging is perfect but the sound really snapped into place when I was sitting with my head a foot or so higher than my normal front row seating position. The lateral sweet spot is very wide and it doesn't matter with MC music but I can tell the difference in stereo mode. My second row is the right height and I spent most of the 2 channel time back there.
Interesting observation. How high is the center of the horn on the 215's?

My 210RT's are right at ear height but one potential problem is that the bottom woofer is going to fire right into the frame of my screen. I could raise it 6-8 inches, but then the CD will be above my ear height.

I wish the 210's were WTW instead of TWW.

Maybe it doesn't matter if the bottom woofer fires into the screen frame - anyone have any thoughts?
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post #32857 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Interesting observation. How high is the center of the horn on the 215's?

My 210RT's are right at ear height but one potential problem is that the bottom woofer is going to fire right into the frame of my screen. I could raise it 6-8 inches, but then the CD will be above my ear height.

I wish the 210's were WTW instead of TWW.

Maybe it doesn't matter if the bottom woofer fires into the screen frame - anyone have any thoughts?
Yes, the 215RT horn center is over 40" off the floor (45" AFAIR) while 210RT's have the horn center pretty much perfect for seated listening when they are on the floor. As to the screen frame blocking the woofer, it may be an issue since the woofer is playing all frequencies under 350Hz or so. I would imagine the "normal LFE frequencies would be mostly unaffected by the frame but 100-350Hz might start to show some issues with the frame dissecting the woofer. Measurements would tell the tale.
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post #32858 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Which blurays do you think are better than native Atmos? I'd like to experiment --- I haven't found any yet.


Personally I felt like Dolby ProLogic IIz was pretty much identical to Dolby Surround Upmixer (having installed my initial Atmos Speaker setup, before I got a Atmos receiver and having placed the ceiling speaker in the correct Atmos spot.
So you could 'try before you buy' potentially if you have a receiver capable of Pro Logic IIz


My understanding is that Pro Logic IIz just took out of phase noise recorded on the track and placed them in the ceiling speakers -- since the noise is out of phase you can't tell where the sound is coming from anyway - so it doesn't matter where your speakers really are. Hence Dolby's stated flexibility in putting the height speakers pretty much anywhere they fit on the ceiling - in front of you, over you, behind you - wherever (just above you). Dolby Surround Upmixer is supposed to do more than that mysteriously - but in practice - to my ears and comparisons they were very much alike. Dolby Pro Logic IIz and Dolby Surround Upmixer both have not been as good as dedicated Atmos content in my experience, but both do seem to be a reasonable step up from regular DD HD or DTS MA in my opinion.


Here is a short thread link into my experimentation on the matter.
Traditional height speakers directly above or slightly forward of seating area?
Perhaps I should have said as good as and not better than. I'm new to Atmos so I haven't watch too many movies from start to finish. I've played around with some of the ones I have and my legacy ones. So far (from a DSU) standpoint I've liked the following:


1) Prometheus
2) Ender's Game
3) Transformers Dark of the Moon


The only Atmos movie I've watched all the way through was Terminator Genisys and I thought Prometheus (in DSU) was every bit as good. The level of immersion was outstanding. I plan on re-watching some of the Atmos discs I have, especially some of the ones lots of folk say are excellent like:


1) Gravity
2) Fifth Element
3) Mad Max


but I also plan on watching others in DSU that I think have the ability to be excellent as well:


1) Interstellar
2) Transformers 1 & 2
3) Tomorrowland
4) Ant Man - Ralph gave it a 5 star DSU rating.
5) All 6 Star Wars in preparation for Star Wars 7.


and a bunch of others.


My Atmos speakers are setup with the TF's at 45 and TR's at 40. Right now they are old Def Tech Promonitor 800's that I do have the ability to move around a bit....until my JTR Slanted 8 LP's come.


I will read your experimentation thread because I've wondered where the best place is for the overheads. Primarily should they line up with the fronts or be inside more....this is what I want to play with prior to mounting the JTR's because once they go up...it's permanent.

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post #32859 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Yes, the 215RT horn center is over 40" off the floor (45" AFAIR) while 210RT's have the horn center pretty much perfect for seated listening when they are on the floor. As to the screen frame blocking the woofer, it may be an issue since the woofer is playing all frequencies under 350Hz or so. I would imagine the "normal LFE frequencies would be mostly unaffected by the frame but 100-350Hz might start to show some issues with the frame dissecting the woofer. Measurements would tell the tale.
Thanks.

If I need to raise the speakers, I guess I could angle the speakers a bit to compensate for the higher CD level.
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post #32860 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Thanks.

If I need to raise the speakers, I guess I could angle the speakers a bit to compensate for the higher CD level.
That's what I was thinking (angle the speakers forward) for my installation but I'm pretty short on room as the front baffle of the speakers is only a couple of inches from the screen as it is. Moving the screen forward is the only way to create space and that ain't happening. It's really only noticeable with 2 channel and I'm fine sitting in the back row for that occasional use.

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post #32861 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Interesting observation. How high is the center of the horn on the 215's?

My 210RT's are right at ear height but one potential problem is that the bottom woofer is going to fire right into the frame of my screen. I could raise it 6-8 inches, but then the CD will be above my ear height.

I wish the 210's were WTW instead of TWW.

Maybe it doesn't matter if the bottom woofer fires into the screen frame - anyone have any thoughts?
In planning I have wondered the same and have asked around. The 4722's are crossed at 800hz (JBL advertises 630 for active but other owners have said in experimentation not to go below 740ish) so even more important for me to get it right. Not sure what screen aspect ratio you have and how that bottom border comes into play with the 210's in respect to being at ear height but a combination of things could make it work out best. Maybe a small riser even if it is single of front row? Perhaps sacrificing having CD at optimal height behind screen (5/8's I believe). In the end unless one built a DIY screen with complete AT frame, borders or whatever there will be some kind of tradeoff. I have thought about a DIY screen with the the border material being AT for those frequencies. Maybe extra screen material a few ft past the actual border fastened to stretch it out with the border covering the unwanted white screen areas. For example I have some black microsuede fabric from ATS acoustics they advertise as 100% acoustically transparent. When I got it I suspected it was not with the simple "blow test." I draped it over the left main and ran a sweep. It was 100% acoustically transparent to right at 1000hz then it began to taper off in a steady line to 20,000 to where it was 0db. So the frequency response was 95db and unaffected out to 1000hz then a literal straight line to 0db at 20,000. I have the graph saved at home. Anyway I may try and develop something like that to avoid the issue you brought up Or go with this and get the border in between best I can, would be much less labor. Thing is I don't know many screen borders that are fairly thin. Most I see are 4-6 inches wide and rightly so...
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post #32862 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 02:57 PM
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Damn, my JBL Control 328 speaker and pre made cans do not fit in my ceiling for Atmos. Back to the drawing board for Atmos.

Any ideas for 4 ceiling Atmos speakers???


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post #32863 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Damn, my JBL Control 328 speaker and pre made cans do not fit in my ceiling for Atmos. Back to the drawing board for Atmos.

Any ideas for 4 ceiling Atmos speakers???


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You probably don't want to her my suggestion but with a 10% discount (multi speaker, remember, you bought triple 12's too) you would be in good shape with the new Slanted 8-LP's.
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post #32864 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
You probably don't want to her my suggestion but with a 10% discount (multi speaker, remember, you bought triple 12's too) you would be in good shape with the new Slanted 8-LP's.

Bought 3 215RT and 4 S8-lp. I'll need the dimensions of these new speakers. With a low ceiling I'd like to get the speaker between the joist. I have about 13" wide and I think about 10" deep.




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post #32865 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 04:42 PM
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Atmos

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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Bought 3 215RT and 4 S8-lp. I'll need the dimensions of these new speakers. With a low ceiling I'd like to get the speaker between the joist. I have about 13" wide and I think about 10" deep.
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If you want them in-ceiling then their 14"X14"X8" dimensions won't work. Why don't you try the system without Atmos speakers first? The dust hasn't settled on the format wars and I am hassling with a change out of my JBL ceiling speakers so that I can get a fully timbre matched set of speakers in the HT. My advice is to run the wires but wait a bit before pulling the trigger on Atmos. Low ceilings negate much of the effect anyway and I bet that you'll find the 7 speakers do an amazing job ... IMHO .

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post #32866 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 05:40 PM
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... wait a bit before pulling the trigger....
That has to be the funniest thing I heard in the Jtr thread. People here don't wait. I'm convinced they pre-ordered speakers that don't exist yet 😀
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post #32867 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 05:42 PM
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That has to be the funniest thing I heard in the Jtr thread. People here don't wait. I'm convinced they pre-ordered speakers that don't exist yet
Exactly. It's only because I am impatient that I want the Atmos speakers installed asap. And that is coming from someone who hasn't even received their LCR or surround speakers yet!

Hoping I can return or at least exchange the 4 JBL 328C and 4 cans. If so the JBL 227c and can will fit. Knowing what I spent on the s8-lp's I can't spend that much now for 4 ceiling speakers.

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post #32868 of 35898 Old 11-24-2015, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
In planning I have wondered the same and have asked around. The 4722's are crossed at 800hz (JBL advertises 630 for active but other owners have said in experimentation not to go below 740ish) so even more important for me to get it right. Not sure what screen aspect ratio you have and how that bottom border comes into play with the 210's in respect to being at ear height but a combination of things could make it work out best. Maybe a small riser even if it is single of front row? Perhaps sacrificing having CD at optimal height behind screen (5/8's I believe). In the end unless one built a DIY screen with complete AT frame, borders or whatever there will be some kind of tradeoff. I have thought about a DIY screen with the the border material being AT for those frequencies. Maybe extra screen material a few ft past the actual border fastened to stretch it out with the border covering the unwanted white screen areas. For example I have some black microsuede fabric from ATS acoustics they advertise as 100% acoustically transparent. When I got it I suspected it was not with the simple "blow test." I draped it over the left main and ran a sweep. It was 100% acoustically transparent to right at 1000hz then it began to taper off in a steady line to 20,000 to where it was 0db. So the frequency response was 95db and unaffected out to 1000hz then a literal straight line to 0db at 20,000. I have the graph saved at home. Anyway I may try and develop something like that to avoid the issue you brought up Or go with this and get the border in between best I can, would be much less labor. Thing is I don't know many screen borders that are fairly thin. Most I see are 4-6 inches wide and rightly so...
I guess I have a few options. I could build a riser equal to the hieght I would need to raise the 210's. Another option would to lower the screen a little. It is currently centered perfectly between the ceiling and the floor. I could probably drop it 2 inches or so. I need to go measure how much I need to tweak to not have the screen brace on the bottom woofer.

Edit - good news for me.

I would need to raise the 210's about 3-4 inches to not have the bottom woofer fire into the bottom brace. The center of the 210's CD is 38 inches off of the floor. When seated in my MLP, my ear is at 43 inches high so I can raise the 210's 4-5 inches and not need to adjust anything else - WIN!!!
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post #32869 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I guess I have a few options. I could build a riser equal to the hieght I would need to raise the 210's. Another option would to lower the screen a little. It is currently centered perfectly between the ceiling and the floor. I could probably drop it 2 inches or so. I need to go measure how much I need to tweak to not have the screen brace on the bottom woofer.

Edit - good news for me.

I would need to raise the 210's about 3-4 inches to not have the bottom woofer fire into the bottom brace. The center of the 210's CD is 38 inches off of the floor. When seated in my MLP, my ear is at 43 inches high so I can raise the 210's 4-5 inches and not need to adjust anything else - WIN!!!
If you want perfect alignment, you could try tilting them forward a bit with some shims.
Having the CD a little high for movies might line up better with actor heads.
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post #32870 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I guess I have a few options. I could build a riser equal to the height I would need to raise the 210's. Another option would to lower the screen a little. It is currently centered perfectly between the ceiling and the floor. I could probably drop it 2 inches or so. I need to go measure how much I need to tweak to not have the screen brace on the bottom woofer.

Edit - good news for me.

I would need to raise the 210's about 3-4 inches to not have the bottom woofer fire into the bottom brace. The center of the 210's CD is 38 inches off of the floor. When seated in my MLP, my ear is at 43 inches high so I can raise the 210's 4-5 inches and not need to adjust anything else - WIN!!!
Sounds good Ray. A 5" high speaker base will give you the best of both worlds.

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post #32871 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 11:17 AM
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Pretty bummed. Hung my Falcon AT screen from essentially a joist that drops down about 5" from ceiling. Guess the screen needs support from below and across the bottom because it is flexed like you would't believe. Thought for sure hanging from the 2 hanging mounts would be enough to have a straight floating screen. I've had screens hung and floating before and they were fine and retained their shape. This is pretty bad. Guess it's back to the drawing board for mounting ideas.

JTR 215 cabinets could be done by end of this week. That will be a fun day when they arrive!!
Did you get this sorted yet? Sorry, I skipped a page or two to catch up. What I did was just take an Lbracket and scrap strip of plywood. Screwed the L bracket on the end and wrapped it all in velvet. I then just screwed this into the side wall on the side of the frame that needed squaring, at the right distance. voila!
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post #32872 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 12:20 PM
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Did you get this sorted yet? Sorry, I skipped a page or two to catch up. What I did was just take an Lbracket and scrap strip of plywood. Screwed the L bracket on the end and wrapped it all in velvet. I then just screwed this into the side wall on the side of the frame that needed squaring, at the right distance. voila!


Just put the new brackets on this am. Will hang the screen when I get home tonight and see how it looks.

Exchanging the JBL 328c for the 200 series. The 328 didn't fit between joist was just barely too deep as well. See, I told you guys my DIY skills suck!!


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I ordered 5 boxes of knauf 1.6lb ecose insulation panels from GIK to use behind my screen wall. I received them last week and have been thinking about how I can wrap them and build wooden panels for them. After hearing Jeff say that to get rid of the SBIR interference you should have insulation equal to half the distance from the speaker to the back wall I decided I want these to be 1ft thick. They come 6 per box and each panel is 2 inches thick. The box they come in is just a 1/4 inch shy of a foot thick so they shouldn't really be compressed in the box.

I had an idea last night at about 3am when I woke up to get a drink. I thought about using the box to contain the fiberglass panels. I cut most of the box face out and figured I could glue some fabric over the exposed insulation.

These will be behind a screen so looks are not an issue. I also thought about cutting the cardboard off the back too, but if I have these up against the wall I am not sure there would be any be benefit. I could probably cut more off of the opening but I am not sure if the box would lose too much rigidity.

So do you think these ghetto bass traps/panels would work? They cost about $60 each box after shipping. I am not sure I really even need to wrap them. One side seems to be faced so there isn't any dust particles coming out even if you pat them.


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post #32874 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 05:40 PM
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I dont know what the deal is but I keep getting info that @RMK! posts something negative about certain things and then the post somehow never shows up? retraction of commentary?
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post #32875 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I dont know what the deal is but I keep getting info that @RMK! posts something negative about certain things and then the post somehow never shows up? retraction of commentary?
It's called self editing. I had posted (quoting you) that no one should have to jury rig a new screen frame. Just as my post hit I saw that John had just posted that he received replacement brackets and was going to re-hang the screen. Seems he is ok with his screen and the CS he is getting so I deleted the post. Pretty simple really.

Opinions are not facts.
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post #32876 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I ordered 5 boxes of knauf 1.6lb ecose insulation panels from GIK to use behind my screen wall. I received them last week and have been thinking about how I can wrap them and build wooden panels for them. After hearing Jeff say that to get rid of the SBIR interference you should have insulation equal to half the distance from the speaker to the back wall I decided I want these to be 1ft thick. They come 6 per box and each panel is 2 inches thick. The box they come in is just a 1/4 inch shy of a foot thick so they shouldn't really be compressed in the box.

I had an idea last night at about 3am when I woke up to get a drink. I thought about using the box to contain the fiberglass panels. I cut most of the box face out and figured I could glue some fabric over the exposed insulation.

These will be behind a screen so looks are not an issue. I also thought about cutting the cardboard off the back too, but if I have these up against the wall I am not sure there would be any be benefit. I could probably cut more off of the opening but I am not sure if the box would lose too much rigidity.

So do you think these ghetto bass traps/panels would work? They cost about $60 each box after shipping. I am not sure I really even need to wrap them. One side seems to be faced so there isn't any dust particles coming out even if you pat them.

Interesting approach, so the 210's are 2' off of the wall and you're covering the entire front wall with 1' thick insulation and Jeff at GIK suggested this?

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post #32877 of 35898 Old 11-25-2015, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Interesting approach, so the 210's are 2' off of the wall and you're covering the entire front wall with 1' thick insulation and Jeff at GIK suggested this?
The front of the 210 drivers will be about 28 inches off the front wall. Jeff (JTR) suggested having insulation equal to half the distance from the speaker to the front wall. it was in the thread about the data-bass test on the 212HTR

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2213114-databass-tests-jtr-212htr-2.html#post39127698
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post #32878 of 35898 Old 11-26-2015, 05:21 AM
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Happy Thanksgiving to all you JTR guys and family.
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post #32879 of 35898 Old 11-26-2015, 05:29 AM
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Thx nab. Same to you

Ps. I heard Jeff is running a BOGO specials today on speakers and subs. What a guy.

Pps. This is a joke before someone calls him and says he read it on Avs
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post #32880 of 35898 Old 11-26-2015, 10:23 AM
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Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
I hope all of you and yours all have some good family time and enjoy some good food and tunes.
Cheers all!
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