Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1114 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33391 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I have that installed and only 2 channels show as available.

Would love to get that to work. Followed AustinJerrys guide exactly.
Yeah, that stuff can be a mess. The other channels showed up for me from REW, once I set my PC's HDMI as the output under ASIO4ALL.
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post #33392 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Yeah, that stuff can be a mess. The other channels showed up for me from REW, once I set my PC's HDMI as the output under ASIO4ALL.
Thanks.

I will take a look to see if I am missing something.
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post #33393 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 10:03 AM
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Lesson learned today.....


Caps are not the world's best speaker stands for 228s!!!

Ran San Andreas at reference this afternoon. The right front was turned about 90°!!! Luckily I realized it and it didn't fall.

I had put some of the thick rubber non-skid garage interlocking flooring between them. But alas it still slid. I switched over to 4 of the 2" diameter non slip pads and still moving around on me. Combination of the two must have reduced friction and made it worse. I'm guessing the 50lbs extra on the 212 would have helped. But even a 75lb 228 is nothing to the cap.

I'll have to pop some more of the non-skid adhesive feet on the bottom of it and hopefully it stays put. It does seem to wobble a bit when rocked on top of the cap. While the left front stays flat and seems stationary. Maybe Audyssey has applied a radically different EQ to the right sub and therefore it's hitting the ULF harder.......
Try blu tack
Very adhesive and easy to remove.
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post #33394 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 12:54 PM
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Try blu tack
Very adhesive and easy to remove.
Blu tack is great. I had some EmpTek subs stacked on top of each other. I think they weight 60ish pounds. I could pick the top one up and the bottom one would stay stuck to it.
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post #33395 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 01:02 PM
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. . . If I go in to the microphone properties and look at the level, it is always set at +15 to +18. I see it back to 0 db gain and then it reads correctly. I have to do this each time I start the program. It only takes a few seconds, but is a minor pain. Does anyone know what causes this?
Are you talking about the Windows properties for the microphone?

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post #33396 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 01:41 PM
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Are you talking about the Windows properties for the microphone?
Yes
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post #33397 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 01:56 PM
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ASIO4ALL makes it easier to select the desired inputs and outputs with REW.
I use ASIO4ALL v2 which i find to be fussy. When i select it, and then go into the ASIO control panel almost always the mic device is shown but not active. Then i have jump thru hoops to get it to become active.

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post #33398 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Are you talking about the Windows properties for the microphone?
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Yes
I wasn't in my previous reply, I was referring to the Omnimic software.

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post #33399 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 03:38 PM
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I wasn't in my previous reply, I was referring to the Omnimic software.
Is ther a mic volume setting in Omnimic other than the slider in the upper right?
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post #33400 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 04:05 PM
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Is ther a mic volume setting in Omnimic other than the slider in the upper right?
I was thinking you meant the setting under Config/Adjust, but now I realize you were referring to something different.

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post #33401 of 35718 Old 12-31-2015, 10:53 PM
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How low (Hz) is the horn loading for the 228HTR?
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post #33402 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 08:48 AM
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I have been interested in JTR speakers for a while now, but the cost has been an issue. For example, right now I can get brand new with a warranty from an authorized dealer a pair of Klipsch RF-7 ii and an RC-64 ii cetner for 2650 shipped. or 3 rf-7 ii towers for 2700.

How can JTR compete? I would like to buy from them something that is close to what Klipsch offers but the cost seems to be very high and not competite. Now I know the wood is better and so on, but I can only afford so much. I am a big beliver of supporting local, and small business but it has to make sense financially. so if can of you can recommed anything to me that would be great. Maybe the prices have come down or maybe I saw old prices, I hope I am wrong. Please let me know. As i am looking to buy something now.
Also is the jtr speakers web site ever going to get updated?
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post #33403 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
I have been interested in JTR speakers for a while now, but the cost has been an issue. For example, right now I can get brand new with a warranty from an authorized dealer a pair of Klipsch RF-7 ii and an RC-64 ii cetner for 2650 shipped. or 3 rf-7 ii towers for 2700.

How can JTR compete? I would like to buy from them something that is close to what Klipsch offers but the cost seems to be very high and not competite. Now I know the wood is better and so on, but I can only afford so much. I am a big beliver of supporting local, and small business but it has to make sense financially. so if can of you can recommed anything to me that would be great. Maybe the prices have come down or maybe I saw old prices, I hope I am wrong. Please let me know. As i am looking to buy something now.
Also is the jtr speakers web site ever going to get updated?
The difference is the guts, not the wood, even though they look a bit similar from the outside. The prices are on the web site, or perhaps you could find some used ones. If you say your budget and what you want to use it for, you should be able to get some good recommendations.
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post #33404 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 09:55 AM
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A great , healthy and wonderful 2016 to all members and their families.
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post #33405 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
I have been interested in JTR speakers for a while now, but the cost has been an issue. For example, right now I can get brand new with a warranty from an authorized dealer a pair of Klipsch RF-7 ii and an RC-64 ii cetner for 2650 shipped. or 3 rf-7 ii towers for 2700.

How can JTR compete? I would like to buy from them something that is close to what Klipsch offers but the cost seems to be very high and not competite. Now I know the wood is better and so on, but I can only afford so much. I am a big beliver of supporting local, and small business but it has to make sense financially. so if can of you can recommed anything to me that would be great. Maybe the prices have come down or maybe I saw old prices, I hope I am wrong. Please let me know. As i am looking to buy something now.
Also is the jtr speakers web site ever going to get updated?
Based on these numbers you could get 3 single 8's from JTR which imo sound wonderful. JTR speakers are made with some of the best drivers available and custom crossovers and are priced competively. Periodically it is mentioned that the website is being updated, but it isn't a priority as Jeff is busy building and shipping out all the speakers we buy 😉

If you look long enough you could find some used triple 12s which are awesome speakers usually they sell between 600 and 700 each plus shipping.

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Last edited by HTPCat; 01-01-2016 at 11:18 AM.
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post #33406 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 03:08 PM
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JBL Synthesis SAM3HA/SAM3VA vs JTR 228HTR as LCR for movies (high priority for the best reproduction of dialogue). Which will you choose?
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post #33407 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 03:24 PM
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JBL Synthesis SAM3HA/SAM3VA vs JTR 228HTR as LCR for movies (high priority for the best reproduction of dialogue). Which will you choose?
Since you're asking on a JTR thread, I'm guessing you could imagine what everyones gonna pick lol
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post #33408 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
I have been interested in JTR speakers for a while now, but the cost has been an issue. For example, right now I can get brand new with a warranty from an authorized dealer a pair of Klipsch RF-7 ii and an RC-64 ii cetner for 2650 shipped. or 3 rf-7 ii towers for 2700.

How can JTR compete? I would like to buy from them something that is close to what Klipsch offers but the cost seems to be very high and not competite. Now I know the wood is better and so on, but I can only afford so much. I am a big beliver of supporting local, and small business but it has to make sense financially. so if can of you can recommed anything to me that would be great. Maybe the prices have come down or maybe I saw old prices, I hope I am wrong. Please let me know. As i am looking to buy something now.
Also is the jtr speakers web site ever going to get updated?
Those klipsch are decent enough. i had a set of 7's and a 64 at one point.
What you're getting in JTR, is better quality everything (drivers, xovers, cabinet etc). Thats not to say you'll like the JTR's more, only you can answer that. Generally most of us are on here because we've made comparisons and JTR is the sound we like. For me? I used to be a paradigm guy, had a beautiful set of Sig 8's in piano black ($7500 CD... before that the RF-7's) I bought a set of Triple 12's just to try out.... well that day I sold my S8's.... and have bought lots of various models from JTR, even had 3 different custom versions of his speakers made for myself. I currently have the 215RT's and can't imagine ever selling them.
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post #33409 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 05:21 PM
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Those klipsch are decent enough. i had a set of 7's and a 64 at one point.
What you're getting in JTR, is better quality everything (drivers, xovers, cabinet etc). Thats not to say you'll like the JTR's more, only you can answer that. Generally most of us are on here because we've made comparisons and JTR is the sound we like. For me? I used to be a paradigm guy, had a beautiful set of Sig 8's in piano black ($7500 CD... before that the RF-7's) I bought a set of Triple 12's just to try out.... well that day I sold my S8's.... and have bought lots of various models from JTR, even had 3 different custom versions of his speakers made for myself. I currently have the 215RT's and can't imagine ever selling them.
I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but your budget is quite different from where I am. I know everything is better, but at what cost? I get the whole high end market but is there nothing to attract people to the line in the first place then? Also even with better everything you mentioned, JTR being that much more expensive even over products that are close to the quality is hard to swallow, and as I said leaves out alot of people. I am not looking for cheap best buy stuff. But If I am looking at klipsch rf 7 ii which are not cheap, i cant even get close to what the jtf speakrs, it would seem yes, he would be more expensive given what is in there, but to elimante even the market of the high end klipsch people seems odd to me. But that might just be me.

Also why are the triple 12s not made anymore? And how low do they go, and how do them compare to the current range of jtr speakers? And it seem from looking at the website, everthing is horn based now versus the drivers they were using before, how come? And the triple 12s look amazing for what i am looking for which they still made the, or at least could find them for sale, checked ebay, not one single jtr speaker listed at all.

Last edited by metalguy; 01-01-2016 at 05:36 PM.
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post #33410 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
I have been interested in JTR speakers for a while now, but the cost has been an issue. For example, right now I can get brand new with a warranty from an authorized dealer a pair of Klipsch RF-7 ii and an RC-64 ii cetner for 2650 shipped. or 3 rf-7 ii towers for 2700.

How can JTR compete? I would like to buy from them something that is close to what Klipsch offers but the cost seems to be very high and not competite. Now I know the wood is better and so on, but I can only afford so much. I am a big beliver of supporting local, and small business but it has to make sense financially. so if can of you can recommed anything to me that would be great. Maybe the prices have come down or maybe I saw old prices, I hope I am wrong. Please let me know. As i am looking to buy something now.
Also is the jtr speakers web site ever going to get updated?
I'm not entirely sure you are comparing apples to apples here. The RF-7 has a list price of $1600 each or $4800 for an LCR. It is almost unheard of to get 3 for nearly half price of $2700 (new from authorized???). Maybe refurb or black market. An authorized distributor cost is nearly that much. Add in the shipping and they would lose money. If it's too good to be true....

Anyway, a "comparable" JTR would be the 228HT listed at $1299 each on the website. Or even the 212HT listed at $1799 each on website. If you shop around for used deals you could probably find something price comparative to the questionable Klipsch deal.
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post #33411 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by metalguy View Post
I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but your budget is quite different from where I am. I know everything is better, but at what cost? I get the whole high end market but is there nothing to attract people to the line in the first place then? Also even with better everything you mentioned, JTR being that much more expensive even over products that are close to the quality is hard to swallow, and as I said leaves out alot of people. I am not looking for cheap best buy stuff. But If I am looking at klipsch rf 7 ii which are not cheap, i cant even get close to what the jtf speakrs, it would seem yes, he would be more expensive given what is in there, but to elimante even the market of the high end klipsch people seems odd to me. But that might just be me.

Also why are the triple 12s not made anymore? And how low do they go, and how do them compare to the current range of jtr speakers? And it seem from looking at the website, everthing is horn based now versus the drivers they were using before, how come? And the triple 12s look amazing for what i am looking for which they still made the, or at least could find them for sale, checked ebay, not one single jtr speaker listed at all.
You could check out PSA - they have speakers that start at $600 each and $800 for dual 10 inch driver speakers with a similar philosophy. The JTR speakers will have horn loading to a much lower frequency though if that is important to you.
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post #33412 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 07:37 PM
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I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but your budget is quite different from where I am. I know everything is better, but at what cost? I get the whole high end market but is there nothing to attract people to the line in the first place then? Also even with better everything you mentioned, JTR being that much more expensive even over products that are close to the quality is hard to swallow, and as I said leaves out alot of people. I am not looking for cheap best buy stuff. But If I am looking at klipsch rf 7 ii which are not cheap, i cant even get close to what the jtf speakrs, it would seem yes, he would be more expensive given what is in there, but to elimante even the market of the high end klipsch people seems odd to me. But that might just be me.

Also why are the triple 12s not made anymore? And how low do they go, and how do them compare to the current range of jtr speakers? And it seem from looking at the website, everthing is horn based now versus the drivers they were using before, how come? And the triple 12s look amazing for what i am looking for which they still made the, or at least could find them for sale, checked ebay, not one single jtr speaker listed at all.
The JTR's cost is actually pretty respectable given how they are built. The reason there isn't 500$ speakers is probably because Jeff can't meet the performance he wants using lower cost drivers.
JTR is also not the high end market, he's mid range. High end market is stuff 20K and over. JTR does have "higher end" speakers in their product line but he doesn't have much of anything under 1K and he's likely got his own reasons for that.

Your best bet to find used JTR is here on AVS, throw up a wanted add on wanted section and even on here with your location, maybe someone has some that you can have a listen too, then that could make your decision easier.

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post #33413 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 09:31 PM
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I'm not entirely sure you are comparing apples to apples here. The RF-7 has a list price of $1600 each or $4800 for an LCR. It is almost unheard of to get 3 for nearly half price of $2700 (new from authorized???). Maybe refurb or black market. An authorized distributor cost is nearly that much. Add in the shipping and they would lose money. If it's too good to be true....<br />
<br />
Anyway, a &quot;comparable&quot; JTR would be the 228HT listed at $1299 each on the website. Or even the 212HT listed at $1799 each on website. If you shop around for used deals you could probably find something price comparative to the questionable Klipsch deal.
<br />
<br />
The price is real, from an authorised online klipsch dealer, brand new stuff. Most people in here have bought there klipsch from them. And heck even avs it self sells stuff at 50% offist. The thx ultra 2 for example is sold at 50% off all the time. Just letting you know the prices are real.

Last edited by metalguy; 01-01-2016 at 10:18 PM.
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post #33414 of 35718 Old 01-01-2016, 10:08 PM
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The price is real, fro. An authorised online klipsch dealer, brand new stuff. Most people in here have bought there klipsch from them. And hekl even avs it self sells stuff at 50% offist. The thx ultra 2 for example is sold at 50% off all the time. Just letting you know the prices are real.

I think markup is the key here. How much do the materials cost to make the 7s vs the 212 for instance? Pretty sure you are getting a superior product with the JTR lineup in that respect, as in price to quality ratio.
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post #33415 of 35718 Old 01-03-2016, 07:19 AM
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JTR markup is not significant given the topshelf components he uses. Over and over in the DIY threads people say they want a JTR copycat speaker, but DIY to save cost, and over and over the knowledgable DIY guys say you can't do it at a significant enough cost savings to be worth the effort, and the poster should just buy from JTR if he wants a similar speaker with the same components. Don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.

JTR costs more than klipsch, because what n8dogg said --- every single aspect about the speaker is better quality. (Thick and strong baltic birch wood, heavy duty binding posts, incredibly high quality crossovers with lifetime rated capacitors and components, and top shelf -- best of class speaker drivers). In contrast Klipsch uses middling components in pretty boxes. The cost of the actual components making up a klipsch speaker as compared to a JTR speaker at similar asking price is probably 1/4 to 1/3 at most. Compare pictures of klipsch speaker guts compared to JTR speaker guts by web searching images online.

People have regularly asked Jeff why he doesn't sell on partsexpress or similar resellers, he has stated because their ~15% markup would eliminate his profit. In 2012 he said on some items that would actually cost him money to sell through them

Your point about them being too expensive is misplaced. Rather it is fair to ask why he doesn't make a lesser product with cheaper components to compete in the lower price tiers for those with less disposable income. I've asked Jeff that myself, and the sentiment I've heard Jeff relay is because he can't meet his own personal standards and expectation of excellence at lower price tiers.
----
One would also assume (realizing Jeffs profit margins are thin) it would be harder to compete against the mass market fodder at the lower price points and still make a small business work. After all, 15% profit on a $2000 speaker is 300 bucks. 15% on a $200 speaker is 30 bucks. As a small business where the owner personally builds all speakers and crossovers inhouse, and who typically has enough customers to keep him beyond busy --- as that business proprieter, which speaker would you rather spend your time building and selling?
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post #33416 of 35718 Old 01-03-2016, 08:56 AM
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I found a local Rotel 1095 for $800 that I'm going to pick up today for when I go to Atmos....
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post #33417 of 35718 Old 01-03-2016, 10:39 AM
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JTR markup is not significant given the topshelf components he uses. Over and over in the DIY threads people say they want a JTR copycat speaker, but DIY to save cost, and over and over the knowledgable DIY guys say you can't do it at a significant enough cost savings to be worth the effort, and the poster should just buy from JTR if he wants a similar speaker with the same components. Don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.

JTR costs more than klipsch, because what n8dogg said --- every single aspect about the speaker is better quality. (Thick and strong baltic birch wood, heavy duty binding posts, incredibly high quality crossovers with lifetime rated capacitors and components, and top shelf -- best of class speaker drivers). In contrast Klipsch uses middling components in pretty boxes. The cost of the actual components making up a klipsch speaker as compared to a JTR speaker at similar asking price is probably 1/4 to 1/3 at most. Compare pictures of klipsch speaker guts compared to JTR speaker guts by web searching images online.

People have regularly asked Jeff why he doesn't sell on partsexpress or similar resellers, he has stated because their ~15% markup would eliminate his profit. In 2012 he said on some items that would actually cost him money to sell through them

Your point about them being too expensive is misplaced. Rather it is fair to ask why he doesn't make a lesser product with cheaper components to compete in the lower price tiers for those with less disposable income. I've asked Jeff that myself, and the sentiment I've heard Jeff relay is because he can't meet his own personal standards and expectation of excellence at lower price tiers.
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One would also assume (realizing Jeffs profit margins are thin) it would be harder to compete against the mass market fodder at the lower price points and still make a small business work. After all, 15% profit on a $2000 speaker is 300 bucks. 15% on a $200 speaker is 30 bucks. As a small business where the owner personally builds all speakers and crossovers inhouse, and who typically has enough customers to keep him beyond busy --- as that business proprieter, which speaker would you rather spend your time building and selling?
Excellent post Archaea. The only thing I would add is that any SQ differences gained by using better components is subjective. A speaker like JTR with low distortion, high efficiency and build quality that allow the speakers last forever is unusual. I have heard from cheap to very expensive speakers that sound good to great when played within their design limits. I never liked having limitations imposed on my HT system regardless of design's limitations and or cost. JTR speakers are not furniture grade, nor aesthetically interesting but they are a great example of function over form. Seaton and Danley are both excellent examples high efficiency, pro audio r=derived loudspeakers but they come at a higher price that is based upon their business model (overhead + desired margins) and customer demographics.

I'm sure there are other products that get close to JTR performance at a lower cost. With his success, Jeff has created the opportunity for others to slip in under his price point with similar designs and margins based upon a lower BOM (Bill of Materials) cost. That is the nature of business and as a consumer it's good to have options. Personally, I prefer to buy the best product at the best price and Jeff has always delivered.
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Last edited by RMK!; 01-05-2016 at 10:23 PM.
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post #33418 of 35718 Old 01-03-2016, 11:44 PM
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Do 210RM and 212HTR share the same compression driver?
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post #33419 of 35718 Old 01-04-2016, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Do 210RM and 212HTR share the same compression driver?

As far as I understand all of the 3-way Noesis designs use the exact same BMS 4593nd coax compression driver.
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post #33420 of 35718 Old 01-04-2016, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsbound View Post
Surround and over-head speaker postions: Am I right in thinking I should use bipole surround for the sides? What about the rears? What JTR offerings should I use for each surround position? Where I need bipoles, what other manufacturer's product would match up nicely with the proposed JTRs?
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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
I would use monopole speakers for every position. Bipole and dipole speakers do not work well with object based audio formats (Atmos/DTS:X).

In a perfect world you'd use the same speaker in every position. Not feasible to hang four 215RTs from the ceiling. So pick another option and use the same speaker for all your surrounds and overhead speakers. That's the next best thing.

Good luck with your build. You'll get more recommendations from some of the JTR regulars in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
I'm not sure why you wouldn't use S8 or S8LP for surround and surround backs. With Atmos, the goal is to have ONLY monopole speakers. No dipoles for sure and try to limit bipole usage to only where mandatory. The LP is only about 7" deep. For your side surrounds, that could limit your walking paths a bit as 11' is pretty narrow for 3 seat width already. If you have a contractor you are working with, they could always recess them into the walls. But for your rear surrounds, you have a lot of depth to accommodate them as is.
Thanks for helpful responses! I'm hoping to clarify and re-ask where I quoted myself. I understand and plan to implement monopole speakers for overhead positions as well as rears. The position I'm really concerned about is the Surround LR which would be on the side walls close to seating positions. The room will only be about 11' wide. In just the Suround LR position, does it make sense to use bipole (or switchable) in-wall speakers to alleviate the effect of listeners getting blasted by close speakers? Or is there a method by which to use monopoles and make it work? Such as putting them higher up and between rows (or whatever. I don't really know.)

If i had to go with bipoles or switchables (just surround LR), would something like the JBL S4AI work? it's thin, switchable etc. Any other recommendations?

Thanks guys. I've learned a lot from folks in this thread!
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