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Old 01-20-2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
Just buy another pair of 212 HTR's for surrounds... problem solved =)
It's that easy!

Not that I would do it, but could that still be an issue if the speakers are so sensitive that they would all be -12?

I am kind of leaning towards keeping them but still not really sure.

If I sell them, I would move a pair of my 210RT's up to the living room. I would not be able to use the 3rd as a center. I would then see if I can return/trade in the 3rd 210RT towards 2 - 215RT's and a 215RM. Not sure how big of an upgrade that would be over the 3 210RT's I have in my gameroom now for 50/50 movies and 2 channel music. This would all cost me an extra 3K after selling the 212's and trading in a 210RT and I still would be without a center in the living room. Could maybe do a 210RM as a center down the line but not sure that would be much of an upgrade over 3 - 212HT(R)'s since I never listen to 2 channel on this system.

So options are stay put with 3 - 210RT's in my gameroom and 3 - 212HT(R)'s in the living room

Or

2 - 215RT and 1 - 215RM in the gameroom and 2 210RT's and 1 210RM in the living room for and additional $5000 after selling the 212's and trading a 210RT.

At some point it is probably diminishing returns.

I am not sure that would all be worth the $5k upgrade over what I currently have.

First world problems.......

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Old 01-20-2016, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
It's that easy!

Not that I would do it, but could that still be an issue if the speakers are so sensitive that they would all be -12?

I am kind of leaning towards keeping them but still not really sure.

If I sell them, I would move a pair of my 210RT's up to the living room. I would not be able to use the 3rd as a center. I would then see if I can return/trade in the 3rd 210RT towards 2 - 215RT's and a 215RM. Not sure how big of an upgrade that would be over the 3 210RT's I have in my gameroom now for 50/50 movies and 2 channel music. This would all cost me an extra 3K after selling the 212's and trading in a 210RT and I still would be without a center in the living room. Could maybe do a 210RM as a center down the line but not sure that would be much of an upgrade over 3 - 212HT(R)'s since I never listen to 2 channel on this system.

So options are stay put with 3 - 210RT's in my gameroom and 3 - 212HT(R)'s in the living room

Or

2 - 215RT and 1 - 215RM in the gameroom and 2 210RT's and 1 210RM in the living room for and additional $5000 after selling the 212's and trading a 210RT.

At some point it is probably diminishing returns.

I am not sure that would all be worth the $5k upgrade over what I currently have.

First world problems.......
I wouldn't know how the 215's and the 210's compare to each other. But I almost guarantee not much except the 215's dig deeper. I will do a comparison in LCR between the 2 when my 210's arrive though. I'm more curious about the sq of the the different CD. As my 215's is the 2014 version that doesn't have the phase plug. On a side note, I watched The Martian last night with the subs off, no subs on the avr, and full range LCR. The 215's puts out gobs, I mean gobs of bass on their own. I'm still wondering if it's about equal to a ported cap..
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:51 AM
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I wouldn't know how the 215's and the 210's compare to each other. But I almost guarantee not much except the 215's dig deeper. I will do a comparison in LCR between the 2 when my 210's arrive though. I'm more curious about the sq of the the different CD. As my 215's is the 2014 version that doesn't have the phase plug. On a side note, I watched The Martian last night with the subs off, no subs on the avr, and full range LCR. The 215's puts out gobs, I mean gobs of bass on their own. I'm still wondering if it's about equal to a ported cap..
Thanks

When do your 210's arrive? I will be very interested in what you find.

You must get killed on shipping
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Thanks

When do your 210's arrive? I will be very interested in what you find.

You must get killed on shipping
Shipping?- $ xxx.xx
Having the best sounding speakers and subs. And probably the only one with JTR here in Hawaii?- Priceless!
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:14 AM
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I wouldn't know how the 215's and the 210's compare to each other. But I almost guarantee not much except the 215's dig deeper. I will do a comparison in LCR between the 2 when my 210's arrive though. I'm more curious about the sq of the the different CD. As my 215's is the 2014 version that doesn't have the phase plug. On a side note, I watched The Martian last night with the subs off, no subs on the avr, and full range LCR. The 215's puts out gobs, I mean gobs of bass on their own. I'm still wondering if it's about equal to a ported cap..
I do believe Jeff has said before that the 215's is about equivalent to a ported cap....
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:00 PM
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I do believe Jeff has said before that the 215's is about equivalent to a ported cap….
^^^^Yup! Personally I think more.
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:04 PM
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I wouldn't know how the 215's and the 210's compare to each other. But I almost guarantee not much except the 215's dig deeper. I will do a comparison in LCR between the 2 when my 210's arrive though. I'm more curious about the sq of the the different CD. As my 215's is the 2014 version that doesn't have the phase plug. On a side note, I watched The Martian last night with the subs off, no subs on the avr, and full range LCR. The 215's puts out gobs, I mean gobs of bass on their own. I'm still wondering if it's about equal to a ported cap..
Carp has heard both and he said the 210's were pretty much on par with the 215's. I believe he may have even said they sounded better with music or at least on par?? I will let him answer that, but I know he raved about them.
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Carp has heard both and he said the 210's were pretty much on par with the 215's. I believe he may have even said they sounded better with music or at least on par?? I will let him answer that, but I know he raved about them.
On several occasions I have been listening to 2 channel music on the 210's with subs off and then started watching a movie the next day and not noticed the subs were off. This happened when watching the star wars movies over Xmas in preparation for watching the newest. I thought the movies lacked a bit of impact, however is was not obvious.

I Measured the 210 center channel to be flat to 30hz in my room. Did not check the L/R
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:58 PM
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Also I forgot to add... Recent talks here on this thread about toe in. I decided to experiment with my LR speakers. My room is 20x18. My mains is about 16" away from the wall and my MLP is 11 feet away from the mains. So I set a line laser from the MLP and turned it towards the speakers. I then toed in each LR angled evenly apart. Till the laser lined up dead center of the CD. Now the front stage sounding more like just one big speaker up front. Sounds way better then just the slight toe in I gave them. More energy and impact coming out from them now. Wow, what a big difference.. Oh and my LR is 11' appart CD to CD..
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:07 PM
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Also I forgot to add... Recent talks here on this thread about toe in. I decided to experiment with my LR speakers. My room is 20x18. My mains is about 16" away from the wall and my MLP is 11 feet away from the mains. So I set a line laser from the MLP and turned it towards the speakers. I then toed in each LR angled evenly apart. Till the laser lined up dead center of the CD. Now the front stage sounding more like just one big speaker up front. Sounds way better then just the slight toe in I gave them. More energy and impact coming out from them now. Wow, what a big difference.. Oh and my LR is 11' appart CD to CD..
I perceived my front mids took a big hit when I added treatments. I then realized that I had toed out the 228 LR, which were originally pointing right at the center of my head at MLP. I had moved them to grazing past each ear. When I toed them back in to dead-center MLP, the mids and impact increased significantly. I still think it's down a bit due to treatments, but probably because I'm use to hearing all the reflections. I agree that it's a lot harder to localize them now.

So I concur with the advice you and others gave. They sound best when toed right at MLP.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Carp has heard both and he said the 210's were pretty much on par with the 215's. I believe he may have even said they sounded better with music or at least on par?? I will let him answer that, but I know he raved about them.

I've said it before - I believe that the 210 RT's should be the most popular speaker in the whole JTR line up. They can be played full range for music (except for techno or dubstep type stuff) and still have all the crazy output and dynamics you would ever need. On top of that, they look small to me. Which means they look big to most people but probably not too big to sneak them into a living room without ticking off the wife - unless she is unreasonable (IMO!! )

So, they are a jack of all trades. They sound fantastic and then some for a 2 channel setup but also are as good as it gets as a LRC in a HT setup providing you don't live in a gymnasium.

The 215 RT's are still MY favorite though. It wouldn't surprise me if someday I get rid of all of my 8 up front corner subs and just use the RT's for bass along with my nearfield sub if for no other reason then to clear up some space in the front of my room. Other than demo's I haven't needed anymore bass than what my 215's and nearfield sub provide for a very long time. Keep in mind this is with under powering my 215's, I am powering them with a single inuke 3000. However... I'm not sure if I could go without hearing that John Wick scene with all those 18's and 15's going together...

Do they have as much bass as a ported Cap? My impression (having owned dual ported Caps) is that my 2 215's have as much bass as 2 ported Caps when I powered them with a behringer EP 4000. Now, when you powered those passive powered Caps with a CV 5000 or Crown 5000 amp they had a significant increase in output.

The current Cap 1400 has less than the passive Cap I had powered by a CV 5000 I think??.... so maybe a single 215 is indeed equal to a Cap 1400?

If Jeff is reading he can come clean up my mess.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:45 PM
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The 215RT's look pretty awesome, and the RMAF reporting back that up. Seems like a lot of speaker for the price.

What is the prescribed cutoff frequency for the HPF when running full range at high volume?

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Old 01-21-2016, 01:46 PM
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Double post,

Hey Dave you guys supposed to get hit with the blizzard on Fri-Sat. 18-24+ inches of wet heavy snow predicted here.

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Old 01-21-2016, 01:51 PM
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I've said it before - I believe that the 210 RT's should be the most popular speaker in the whole JTR line up. They can be played full range for music (except for techno or dubstep type stuff) and still have all the crazy output and dynamics you would ever need. On top of that, they look small to me. Which means they look big to most people but probably not too big to sneak them into a living room without ticking off the wife - unless she is unreasonable (IMO!! )

So, they are a jack of all trades. They sound fantastic and then some for a 2 channel setup but also are as good as it gets as a LRC in a HT setup providing you don't live in a gymnasium.

The 215 RT's are still MY favorite though. It wouldn't surprise me if someday I get rid of all of my 8 up front corner subs and just use the RT's for bass along with my nearfield sub if for no other reason then to clear up some space in the front of my room. Other than demo's I haven't needed anymore bass than what my 215's and nearfield sub provide for a very long time. Keep in mind this is with under powering my 215's, I am powering them with a single inuke 3000. However... I'm not sure if I could go without hearing that John Wick scene with all those 18's and 15's going together...

Do they have as much bass as a ported Cap? My impression (having owned dual ported Caps) is that my 2 215's have as much bass as 2 ported Caps when I powered them with a behringer EP 4000. Now, when you powered those passive powered Caps with a CV 5000 or Crown 5000 amp they had a significant increase in output.

The current Cap 1400 has less than the passive Cap I had powered by a CV 5000 I think??.... so maybe a single 215 is indeed equal to a Cap 1400?

If Jeff is reading he can come clean up my mess.
The 210RT would be a great living room speaker. It is only 12.25 inches wide which makes it appear smaller in the room than the 212's.

I may still pursue that route even though it looks like Jon (Archaea) isn't buying my 212's.

Last edited by raynist; 01-21-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jtavan View Post
You can purchase inline attenuators for RCA and XLR connections if you don't have sufficient gain control otherwise.

That said... I've been thinking about buying 212HTR for my home theater LCR, so if you do decide to sell and move to something less sensitive, let me know.
PM sent
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:04 PM
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I perceived my front mids took a big hit when I added treatments. I then realized that I had toed out the 228 LR, which were originally pointing right at the center of my head at MLP. I had moved them to grazing past each ear. When I toed them back in to dead-center MLP, the mids and impact increased significantly. I still think it's down a bit due to treatments, but probably because I'm use to hearing all the reflections. I agree that it's a lot harder to localize them now.

So I concur with the advice you and others gave. They sound best when toed right at MLP.
For one person yes, but for a wider sweet spot you would want to toe them in a lot more than that so that the further speaker is more on axis to people further away from that speaker and not sitting in the dead center seat. This makes the volume from each speaker more even and results in the wide sweet spot.

I've tried them like this ^ many times but I always come back to much less toe in than that (since I only care about the sweet spot seat anyway), and even less toe in than having the CD aimed right at me. My CD's intersect a few feet behind my head. I like this the best after tons of experimenting. I think I like having a bit more sound hitting the side walls or something. Mark Seaton was saying something about this being beneficial for the sound stage with 60 degree horizontal dispersion speakers. I think it all comes down to personal preference though.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
The 215RT's look pretty awesome, and the RMAF reporting back that up. Seems like a lot of speaker for the price.

What is the prescribed cutoff frequency for the HPF when running full range at high volume?


17 hz is what Jeff told me. I think I've told you already, but in my room they measure flat to 12.5 hz.

I used a HPF for awhile but haven't used one for a long time and haven't had any issues or heard any bad noises. I'm not too worried since I'm underpowering them. If I someday give them 2000 watts a piece I'll make sure to always use a HPF.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:10 PM
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Oops.. I think you meant to ask about the 210 RT's right?
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:13 PM
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I did, stupid auto correct. The 215's are just to big for me. Perhaps when I get a new listening space that will change.

I am thinking three JTR's, four 4 Pi's as surrounds, and my 10" coaxial's as Atmos would be pretty sweet.

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Old 01-21-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
I did, stupid auto correct. The 215's are just to big for me. Perhaps when I get a new listening space that will change.

I am thinking three JTR's, four 4 Pi's as surrounds, and my 10" coaxial's as Atmos would be pretty sweet.
Agreed!

The 210's really do make WAY more sense. It takes a ton of size and space to cover that last little more than an octave difference between the two speakers.

However.... I bet in the end you will build your own mains!!
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:17 PM
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I did, stupid auto correct. The 215's are just to big for me. Perhaps when I get a new listening space that will change.

I am thinking three JTR's, four 4 Pi's as surrounds, and my 10" coaxial's as Atmos would be pretty sweet.
Jeff told me corner loaded the 210RT can hit 20hz

He said high pass at 30hz if you can.

My center is flat to 30hz in my room, didn't test the mains. One is in a corner, the other is not.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:22 PM
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Jeff told me corner loaded they can hit 20hz.

He said high pass at 30hz if you can.

My center is flat to 30hz in my room, didn't test the mains. One is in a corner, the other is not.

JTR conservative ratings rears it's ugly head again.

Jeff's ratings:

210: 38 hz
215: 18 hz

If Klipsch made these speakers:

210: 18hz
215: 8 hz (hahaha )

I see Jeff recommends a 15hz HP (24 db slope) for the 215's. I don't remember him having that on the website before.

No offense to Klipsch fans... however the Klipsch fans I know would take no offense to this anyway...
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:56 PM
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I've said it before - I believe that the 210 RT's should be the most popular speaker in the whole JTR line up. They can be played full range for music (except for techno or dubstep type stuff) and still have all the crazy output and dynamics you would ever need. On top of that, they look small to me. Which means they look big to most people but probably not too big to sneak them into a living room without ticking off the wife - unless she is unreasonable (IMO!! )

So, they are a jack of all trades. They sound fantastic and then some for a 2 channel setup but also are as good as it gets as a LRC in a HT setup providing you don't live in a gymnasium.

The 215 RT's are still MY favorite though. It wouldn't surprise me if someday I get rid of all of my 8 up front corner subs and just use the RT's for bass along with my nearfield sub if for no other reason then to clear up some space in the front of my room. Other than demo's I haven't needed anymore bass than what my 215's and nearfield sub provide for a very long time. Keep in mind this is with under powering my 215's, I am powering them with a single inuke 3000. However... I'm not sure if I could go without hearing that John Wick scene with all those 18's and 15's going together...

Do they have as much bass as a ported Cap? My impression (having owned dual ported Caps) is that my 2 215's have as much bass as 2 ported Caps when I powered them with a behringer EP 4000. Now, when you powered those passive powered Caps with a CV 5000 or Crown 5000 amp they had a significant increase in output.

The current Cap 1400 has less than the passive Cap I had powered by a CV 5000 I think??.... so maybe a single 215 is indeed equal to a Cap 1400?

If Jeff is reading he can come clean up my mess.
Agree about the 210's and I also agree about the 215's bass output. Having a suspension floor, and three 215's up front makes it even more satisfying.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:02 PM
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Jeff told me corner loaded the 210RT can hit 20hz

He said high pass at 30hz if you can.

My center is flat to 30hz in my room, didn't test the mains. One is in a corner, the other is not.
Looking at the specs I was guessing around 30 Hz. That should be sufficient for 90% of the music I like. I do like the idea of full range for music (and times when I don't the whole house to shake with bass from multiple subs).

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Old 01-21-2016, 06:54 PM
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Well I got the 7702 setup... Man its got to be the ugliest piece of gear out there lol.
Sq is same as everything else. I really liked the initial setup assistant. Even though you don't need it, it's still a great idea.

I just need to get my volt 6s from the boarder and I will be rocking.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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Old 01-21-2016, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Well I got the 7702 setup... Man its got to be the ugliest piece of gear out there lol.
Sq is same as everything else. I really liked the initial setup assistant. Even though you don't need it, it's still a great idea.

I just need to get my volt 6s from the boarder and I will be rocking.
Did you order the Volt 6 Atmos flat packs?
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Did you order the Volt 6 Atmos flat packs?
Yup, they are waiting at the boarder for my lazy ass to go get them lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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Old 01-21-2016, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I've said it before - I believe that the 210 RT's should be the most popular speaker in the whole JTR line up. They can be played full range for music (except for techno or dubstep type stuff) and still have all the crazy output and dynamics you would ever need. On top of that, they look small to me. Which means they look big to most people but probably not too big to sneak them into a living room without ticking off the wife - unless she is unreasonable (IMO!! )

So, they are a jack of all trades. They sound fantastic and then some for a 2 channel setup but also are as good as it gets as a LRC in a HT setup providing you don't live in a gymnasium.

The 215 RT's are still MY favorite though. It wouldn't surprise me if someday I get rid of all of my 8 up front corner subs and just use the RT's for bass along with my nearfield sub if for no other reason then to clear up some space in the front of my room. Other than demo's I haven't needed anymore bass than what my 215's and nearfield sub provide for a very long time. Keep in mind this is with under powering my 215's, I am powering them with a single inuke 3000. However... I'm not sure if I could go without hearing that John Wick scene with all those 18's and 15's going together...

Do they have as much bass as a ported Cap? My impression (having owned dual ported Caps) is that my 2 215's have as much bass as 2 ported Caps when I powered them with a behringer EP 4000. Now, when you powered those passive powered Caps with a CV 5000 or Crown 5000 amp they had a significant increase in output.

The current Cap 1400 has less than the passive Cap I had powered by a CV 5000 I think??.... so maybe a single 215 is indeed equal to a Cap 1400?

If Jeff is reading he can come clean up my mess.
Hey carp.. Here's something might interest you if you do get rid of those 18's up front. So, my quest to add more bass up front stage before I decided to go with the 210's all around. Btw, I don't know what I was thinking adding more bass to what already have. Which is made me think if I did that, I'd probably end up on the ground floor with all that heavy hitting bass.lol.. Anyway, I was talking with Jeff about it. And we had a couple of options to accompany the 215's up front. Dual 1400, dual 218's. But he came up with a better idea that intrigue me. He called it the 215 Captivator (passive). So basically it's a 215RT with out the CD and horn. I thought so hard about it. And at the same time not telling the wife it's not a speaker but another bass addition to what I already have. That will probably bring the house down. Made feel bad.. So I decided to go full range surrounds instead with the 4 210's and move to atmos with the slanted's. Anyway, I can only imagine these upfront powered each with a 3000 dsp bridge or a PLX2502 bridged with a mini. That would've look wicked too with 10 15's all upfront.. Oh well, I only can dream of it now.
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:22 AM
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We watched Everest last night and this was the first time I noticed what seemed to me to be distress by the 215's woofers. It was during the storm scenes near the end of the movie and I didn't check the amps for clipping. I have a 20hz HP filter engaged on the Inuke Nu6000DSP and the MV was at -12. Perhaps all that low end room gain is now biting me in the butt. I may have to re-run Audyssey and see if that tames the bass as I am not currently using Audyssey and bass control is the one thing Audyssey XT32 seems to do right.

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Old 01-22-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
We watched Everest last night and this was the first time I noticed what seemed to me to be distress by the 215's woofers. It was during the storm scenes near the end of the movie and I didn't check the amps for clipping. I have a 20hz HP filter engaged on the Inuke Nu6000DSP and the MV was at -12. Perhaps all that low end room gain is now biting me in the butt. I may have to re-run Audyssey and see if that tames the bass as I am not currently using Audyssey and bass control is the one thing Audyssey XT32 seems to do right.
I plan on watching that this weekend, it received very good audio reviews. How would you rate the Atmos for this movie?

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