Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1126 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33751 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I've properly routed the LFE to 215RT's in three different rooms and one can easily exceed reference with WOTW without any issues.
I'm going to need Jeff to personally show me then.

I've been able to bottom out the Woofers on two full sets of 215RT's running that scene at reference or even close to reference with LFE routed to them.



He is the simplest setup I've done and it still happened.


Media Player
Pre-Amp
Amp
Speakers

Settings on each

Media Player:
Source: War Of The Worlds Blu-Ray POD emergence scene
Bitstream DTS Master Audio

Pre-Amp:
Full reset to factory defaults
Fronts set to Large all other speakers and sub set to "OFF"
Run Channel level tones to level match to 75dB on left and right channel

*no bass boost or EQ applied.*

Amp:
No settings required

Speakers:
No settings required


Play anywhere near reference aka 0 in "relative scale" volume.
Bottom out the speakers



You can't get it any simpler then that!


Going to post once more....

If anyone downloads this file, and plays it and gets no sound once it hits the LFE channel, you ARE NOT routing LFE to the mains properly.

"http://s1.demo-world.eu/hd_trailers.php?filename=dts_hd_master_audio_sound _check_7_1_lossless-DWEU.mkv"




There is really no reason to go any farther with this unless Jeff can prove to me otherwise.

I would LOVE to be wrong here, as if I am, then I can learn. But this will bother me forever until I find out.



!!!!This is not a ding on Jeff's Speakers or the 215RT's as I myself have 13 speakers from him!!!!

I just don't understand how I am the only one who can bottom them out easily with nearly no effort at all.

Last edited by SOWK; 01-27-2016 at 07:21 AM.
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post #33752 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I just don't understand how I am the only one who can bottom them out easily with nearly no effort at all.
They are a ported speaker and require a high pass filter - just like the Captivator 1400. Are you using a high pass filter?

Jeff said on his forum, "The Noesis 215RT need a 16hz highpass filter." Most use a 20 Hz HPF since they don't have the capability of using a lower filter.

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post #33753 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
They are a ported speaker and require a high pass filter - just like the Captivator 1400. Are you using a high pass filter?

Jeff said on his forum, "The Noesis 215RT need a 16hz highpass filter." Most use a 20 Hz HPF since they don't have the capability of using a lower filter.
Yes I have done that as well in my personal setup with a MiniDSP Nano AVR.

For the setup I did it last on. No HPF was in the system.

And its bottoming out around the 30Hz range, and not the sub 20Hz range.

Last edited by SOWK; 01-27-2016 at 07:39 AM.
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post #33754 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 08:46 AM
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@carp , @Archaea , or other omnimic users. Any suggestions on MINIMUM windows system requirements to run it? I am going to purchase an Omnimic system as I don't want to dive into trying to diagnose the REW issues on Mac. I found a windows 10 tablet with detachable keyboard normally $350ish on sale for $169 and am thinking about trying it out. I sure wish they made it Mac compatible! Or maybe I should think into it a bit more and research a HTPC and roll with that. I have a connection to a friend at an IT company who could build a PC for me...Any thoughts greatly appreciated Need to see what the new subs will measure!!!

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post #33755 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
And its bottoming out around the 30Hz range, and not the sub 20Hz range.
It is fairly difficult to bottom out a pair of 15" drivers at 30 Hz at reference level and below. Are you using the Emotive XPA-5 on the 215RT's? The Emotive doesn't even have enough power to bottom out the drivers without a clipped signal. It is rated at 34v of output per channel. The 212HTR's can handle more than that at 40 Hz and they are tuned much higher than the 215RT's. The ported BMS 18N862 on data-bass.com has a very similar displacement and tuning to the 215RT. It can handle 259+ volts at 30 Hz without bottoming out!

One can bottom out a driver when the signal is clipped. One can clip the digital signal in a receiver, miniDSP, or a DSP amp like the iNukes.
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post #33756 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Yes please. I will eventually need to figure out how to mount to my ceiling as well.
Will do when finished tonight. Be forewarned...I make it sound easier than it is. Obviously you have to find joists or you are in for it. Mine are installed on popcorn ceiling, which means panels don't lay completely flush...Especially since one of the 4x8 pieces of drywall is guppy bellied in the center. So it's not looking as good as I would like. But acoustic panels are going to hide a lot of that. I'll probably need to caulk around some sides of the panels too.

One of the Slant8s just took a 5' fall from a ladder onto it's front corner. I about cried.... No apparent or visible damage. Tested it and sounds fine. It really seems to be a 2 person job to get them up. They are a bear to line up with keyholes and you're working with arms above head for LONG time.....Very physical and tiring...

Got 3 up, 1 left.
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post #33757 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
It is fairly difficult to bottom out a pair of 15" drivers at 30 Hz at reference level and below. Are you using the Emotive XPA-5 on the 215RT's? The Emotive doesn't even have enough power to bottom out the drivers without a clipped signal. It is rated at 34v of output per channel. The 212HTR's can handle more than that at 40 Hz and they are tuned much higher than the 215RT's. The ported BMS 18N862 on data-bass.com has a very similar displacement and tuning to the 215RT. It can handle 259+ volts at 30 Hz without bottoming out!

One can bottom out a driver when the signal is clipped. One can clip the digital signal in a receiver, miniDSP, or a DSP amp like the iNukes.
When I was running my 215RT's I was using a D-SONIC M3-4500-3, 3x2100w/4 ohm

And at the other location:

Crest Pro Lite 7.5 ~ 2000w/4 ohm


Also

MiniDSP was factory reset with ONLY HPF no other changes

Pre-Pro was Fully factory restored with no EQ or tone adj aka no clipping
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post #33758 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
Will do when finished tonight. Be forewarned...I make it sound easier than it is. Obviously you have to find joists or you are in for it. Mine are installed on popcorn ceiling, which means panels don't lay completely flush...Especially since one of the 4x8 pieces of drywall is guppy bellied in the center. So it's not looking as good as I would like. But acoustic panels are going to hide a lot of that. I'll probably need to caulk around some sides of the panels too.

One of the Slant8s just took a 5' fall from a ladder onto it's front corner. I about cried.... No apparent or visible damage. Tested it and sounds fine. It really seems to be a 2 person job to get them up. They are a bear to line up with keyholes and you're working with arms above head for LONG time.....Very physical and tiring...

Got 3 up, 1 left.
Thank you!
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post #33759 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I'm going to need Jeff to personally show me then.

I've been able to bottom out the Woofers on two full sets of 215RT's running that scene at reference or even close to reference with LFE routed to them.



He is the simplest setup I've done and it still happened.


Media Player
Pre-Amp
Amp
Speakers

Settings on each

Media Player:
Source: War Of The Worlds Blu-Ray POD emergence scene
Bitstream DTS Master Audio

Pre-Amp:
Full reset to factory defaults
Fronts set to Large all other speakers and sub set to "OFF"
Run Channel level tones to level match to 75dB on left and right channel

*no bass boost or EQ applied.*

Amp:
No settings required

Speakers:
No settings required


Play anywhere near reference aka 0 in "relative scale" volume.
Bottom out the speakers



You can't get it any simpler then that!


Going to post once more....

If anyone downloads this file, and plays it and gets no sound once it hits the LFE channel, you ARE NOT routing LFE to the mains properly.

"http://s1.demo-world.eu/hd_trailers.php?filename=dts_hd_master_audio_sound _check_7_1_lossless-DWEU.mkv"




There is really no reason to go any farther with this unless Jeff can prove to me otherwise.

I would LOVE to be wrong here, as if I am, then I can learn. But this will bother me forever until I find out.



!!!!This is not a ding on Jeff's Speakers or the 215RT's as I myself have 13 speakers from him!!!!

I just don't understand how I am the only one who can bottom them out easily with nearly no effort at all.
OK no one is saying you are dinging Jeff but the info you are posting is not what others are experiencing. I checked my LFE output running full range and I do in fact have normal output from the woofers on the sub channel of the speakers test. That said, my speaker levels were all over the map. I attribute this to teenagers having used the system for gaming while I was on vacation recently ...

I have a new digital SPL meter so I level matched all the speakers and then played the Everest storm scene again this time at reference. It was intense (I think this one is mixed hot) but sounded great. I then put in War of the Worlds Bluray (DTS HDMA 5.1) and ran the entire chapter 5 (pod emerges) at reference and it sounded perfect. No bottoming or distress with my simple full range LCR setup. I don't know what your issue was but that scene on my system at reference was no problem. It had been quite a while since I watched it and it was interesting that the video is such poor quality but it remains a cool bass demo.
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post #33760 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I checked my LFE output running full range and I do in fact have normal output from the woofers on the sub channel of the speakers test.
How did you do this? What did you use to test?

Last edited by SOWK; 01-27-2016 at 11:08 AM.
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post #33761 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
It had been quite a while since I watched it and it was interesting that the video is such poor quality but it remains a cool bass demo.
Yea I don't get it at all. It is SUPER grainy and almost to the point I make sure I run quite a few other demo's with good PQ before I show anyone that clip.
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post #33762 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
When I was running my 215RT's I was using a D-SONIC M3-4500-3, 3x2100w/4 ohm

And at the other location:

Crest Pro Lite 7.5 ~ 2000w/4 ohm


Also

MiniDSP was factory reset with ONLY HPF no other changes

Pre-Pro was Fully factory restored with no EQ or tone adj aka no clipping
I've read a lot of complaints about the MiniDSP clipping.

Chris
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post #33763 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 11:41 AM
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I've read a lot of complaints about the MiniDSP clipping.

Only if you don't know how to use it....
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post #33764 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
How did you do this? What did you use to test?
I have several disks (blurays) that have speaker test signals on them. I used the Auro Demo disk this morning to confirm that I had bass coming from my LCR's when it reached the subwoofer channel. I do ...

I did the level adjustments on my Marantz SSP but I do not have individual LFE adjust capability so it's just what ever is there. Works for me ...

BTW, I had my SPL meter set to slow, C, peak and the peak in WOW CH 5 was 119.1db.

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post #33765 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 01:39 PM
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All 4 Slant8LPs up. The fourth one was a B**CH to get up! Screws must have been just a little out of line so it took about 8-10 attempts! Some touch-up paint, clean up, re-run Audy etc....Should be good to go tomorrow! Last of my panels go on ceiling tomorrow, so no rush.

Can't wait to hear the all 7.2.4 JTR setup going!! All 14 matched 8"s! I know, you 215 guys can laugh and/or make me jealous. But I bet my match has to sound seamless!!!!
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LCR: JTR 228HT (3) Surrounds: JTR S8 & S8LP (4) Atmos: JTR Slant8LP (4), RBH IC (2) Subs: JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Dayton UM18-22 NF PJ: JVC RS400 Screen: Seymour UF 130"W 2.35 Misc: SimpleControl, Philips Hue(15 light), Echo Control, Synology DS216play
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post #33766 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
All 4 Slant8LPs up. The fourth one was a B**CH to get up! Screws must have been just a little out of line so it took about 8-10 attempts! Some touch-up paint, clean up, re-run Audy etc....Should be good to go tomorrow! Last of my panels go on ceiling tomorrow, so no rush.

Can't wait to hear the all 7.2.4 JTR setup going!! All 14 matched 8"s! I know, you 215 guys can laugh and/or make me jealous. But I bet my match has to sound seamless!!!!
Should be an a$$ kicker system.
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post #33767 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 02:46 PM
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I can bottom out my 215s but that's with a Clone amp and running them 6dB hot and 5 or 6 dB over reference. And it's not a full bottom, more like a " that sound can't be good" type thing lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #33768 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 03:01 PM
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When I get a chance I'll try WOTW again, but I'll need to hook up my other inuke so that each inuke 3000 is bridged to a 215. A single inuke 3000 leaves me a couple db's short of reference on that scene before clip lights come on if I remember right.
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post #33769 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 03:22 PM
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I have a question.. If I'm level matched 80 dB on the rat meter, does that mean my "0" reference is -5?
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post #33770 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 04:22 PM
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I have a question.. If I'm level matched 80 dB on the rat meter, does that mean my "0" reference is -5?
AVR and SSP test tones are "normally" 75db. That being your case then yes, setting the levels at 80db with those 75db test tones would make ref -5. My Integra SSP's all did the fixed 75db thing regardless of the MV settings.

My Current Marantx allows me to adjust the MV which raises or lowers the test tones accordingly. I just ran them this morning at -10 db and set my levels to 75db. That makes my theoretical reference -10db ...

Isn't this a fun hobby ...
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post #33771 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 04:25 PM
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So posted some basic instructions for Slant8LP install. Not pretty pics, not pretty verbiage. But it's there and will get someone started.

Stoked Home Theater in KC

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post #33772 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
@carp , @Archaea , or other omnimic users. Any suggestions on MINIMUM windows system requirements to run it? I am going to purchase an Omnimic system as I don't want to dive into trying to diagnose the REW issues on Mac. I found a windows 10 tablet with detachable keyboard normally $350ish on sale for $169 and am thinking about trying it out. I sure wish they made it Mac compatible! Or maybe I should think into it a bit more and research a HTPC and roll with that. I have a connection to a friend at an IT company who could build a PC for me...Any thoughts greatly appreciated Need to see what the new subs will measure!!!
PC requirements are really low. Omnimic will run fine on something as slow as an atom processor.

You may have gain issues on windows 8 or 10. You just have to run omnimic in windows 7 compatibility mode. This is well documented.
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post #33773 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 06:51 PM
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PC requirements are really low. Omnimic will run fine on something as slow as an atom processor.

You may have gain issues on windows 8 or 10. You just have to run omnimic in windows 7 compatibility mode. This is well documented.
Thanks for responding. I shall read up, just wanted to see if there was any "insider" tips

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post #33774 of 35308 Old 01-27-2016, 07:42 PM
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Thanks for responding. I shall read up, just wanted to see if there was any "insider" tips
I run a Mac as well. Use REW and same gripe about omnimic not being supported. However, I was concerned about all the REW nightmares I heard about. Come to find out, non existent issues on Mac. It runs great. If you read @AustinJerry guide it's great and easy.

Only issue I've had is getting 7.1 out of a several year old Mac Air. I guess newer ones are okay. Typically you are only looking at lcr and sub. So it's been fine. If you want to measure surrounds or Atmos, you have to run multi-ch stereo and unplug the speakers you are not measuring. I just turn off the amps for those channels so it's simple. I'm sure there's a workaround to get 7.1 out of the minidisplay port to HDMI adapter. But I havent looked, since my solution has been quick and easy with a wall of proamps that have power switches.
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post #33775 of 35308 Old 01-28-2016, 07:10 AM
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So posted some basic instructions for Slant8LP install. Not pretty pics, not pretty verbiage. But it's there and will get someone started.

Stoked Home Theater in KC

Those are great looking HT chairs. What make/model?
Only problem is I have white dogs that shed so the black cloth fabric would be a no go.

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post #33776 of 35308 Old 01-28-2016, 10:48 AM
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Those are great looking HT chairs. What make/model?
Only problem is I have white dogs that shed so the black cloth fabric would be a no go.
They are VERY comfortable too.
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post #33777 of 35308 Old 01-28-2016, 11:33 AM
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Those are great looking HT chairs. What make/model?
Only problem is I have white dogs that shed so the black cloth fabric would be a no go.
Seatcraft Signature. Don't remember model name..Got them from 4seating. Couple other places sell them too. I was worried about the black myself and wanted to go with "pomegranate". Wife said....No too many reds. Black it was.
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Yea I don't get it at all. It is SUPER grainy and almost to the point I make sure I run quite a few other demo's with good PQ before I show anyone that clip.
Haha- Same thing happened when I had someone over to demo things a while back. I put in the WOTW Chap.5 and let it rip. Afterwords he said sounds incredible, but whats wrong with the video and your projector. Not only was it grainy, as everyone knows, it was vibrating too. For such a great bass demo scene...the video needs editing, LOL.

I agree and usually demo some other stuff first (try to fill up the CIH screen too or they think somethings wrong).
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post #33779 of 35308 Old 01-29-2016, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I can bottom out my 215s but that's with a Clone amp and running them 6dB hot and 5 or 6 dB over reference. And it's not a full bottom, more like a " that sound can't be good" type thing lol
That's about what I recall when I had the LG driving the 215's. I had to be over +10db to hear TCBG "that can't be good" sounds. That said, the OS's would start to make some unusual sounds at +15db. These things could be room resonances chiming in as at those levels, it's hard to pinpoint the origin of anything .

Are you using an HP filter?

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post #33780 of 35308 Old 01-29-2016, 08:54 AM
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When I did run full range for movies, it was 18Hz when I boosted them and nothing when they were flat. It only ever happened once or twice before I knew where the cutoff line was...... At those volumes though, they were just hammering. I still can't believe that much bass comes out of that speaker lol.

Though with my dsonic, I don't run a filter as they don't have enough power to bottom the drivers, just the clone did.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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