Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1130 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33871 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 09:36 AM
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I have a question regarding subs and placement. I have two Seaton submersives in the front of my room about 10 feet apart one happens to be corner loaded.

I've never felt like I was lacking bass but I'm Tempted to get a 3rd submersive and place it behind my sectional also corner loaded.

It would end up two in the front next to my main speakers and one in the back, any guesses if I would notice a big difference getting the 3rd?

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post #33872 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Chriscorv58 View Post
I have a question regarding subs and placement. I have two Seaton submersives in the front of my room about 10 feet apart one happens to be corner loaded.

I've never felt like I was lacking bass but I'm Tempted to get a 3rd submersive and place it behind my sectional also corner loaded.

It would end up two in the front next to my main speakers and one in the back, any guesses if I would notice a big difference getting the 3rd?

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Unless it's nearfield or you have some huge null, I highly doubt you'll notice much of a difference. It's only going to net you 3dB extra.
BUT, if you can place one nearfield.... I'd bet you will have a face full of smiles for a long time. It's the easiest way to get some fun experience out of your subs.

It's kinda funny, I've been running nearfield subs for 7 or 8 years now. People balked at running nearfield subs that entire time. I personally always loved it, it's truly a fun experience.... Now all of the sudden in the last year or so, it's pretty much the #1 recommendation..... I'm glad people finally came to their senses
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post #33873 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Unless it's nearfield or you have some huge null, I highly doubt you'll notice much of a difference. It's only going to net you 3dB extra.
BUT, if you can place one nearfield.... I'd bet you will have a face full of smiles for a long time. It's the easiest way to get some fun experience out of your subs.

It's kinda funny, I've been running nearfield subs for 7 or 8 years now. People balked at running nearfield subs that entire time. I personally always loved it, it's truly a fun experience.... Now all of the sudden in the last year or so, it's pretty much the #1 recommendation..... I'm glad people finally came to their senses
Would it be considered nearfeild 8 feet away, vs my other 2 being 14 feet?

Wondering about room modes as well with a 3rd, It was such a difference adding the 2nd. Just seemed so much more balanced no weird peeks or dips.

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post #33874 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chriscorv58 View Post
Would it be considered nearfeild 8 feet away, vs my other 2 being 14 feet?

Wondering about room modes as well with a 3rd, It was such a difference adding the 2nd. Just seemed so much more balanced no weird peeks or dips.

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No. I don't know if there is an accepted standard at what distance represents nearfield, but i have a seaton hp master and slave placed on both sides of my head with drivers facing forward and back. Forward facing drivers (top edge) are about 10 inches from each ear
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post #33875 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post
No. I don't know if there is an accepted standard at what distance represents nearfield, but i have a seaton hp master and slave placed on both sides of my head with drivers facing forward and back. Forward facing drivers (top edge) are about 10 inches from each ear
Lmao, that is nutty

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post #33876 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM
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When I think if nearfield, I generally think of around 4 feet or less.

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post #33877 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
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Well I guess we could get the 3rd sub and use it for an end table lol. It would be 4 feet or less then.

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post #33878 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
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Well I guess we could get the 3rd sub and use it for an end table lol. It would be 4 feet or less then.

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You could just try one of your current subs nearfield and see if you like the experience for fun!

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post #33879 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 01:40 PM
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I bet at that distance of 8 ft compared to 14ft for the current subs plus corner loaded he will gain 6dB maybe slightly more @MLP . Just a guess based on my testing experience.
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post #33880 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 01:40 PM
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I bet at that distance of 8 ft compared to 14ft for the current subs plus corner loaded he will gain 6dB maybe slightly more @MLP . Just a guess based on my testing experience.
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post #33881 of 33900 Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PianoProdigy View Post
When you say opposing corners, do you mean diagonally across the room? I did move a sub to the left rear corner and the response wasn't terrible facing the rear wall (south), but I don't recall whether I had the other sub in the front right corner at the time, whether I measured it separately and together. In short, I don't know, but maybe I'll feel inclined to push them around some more tonight...
Yep...reading back my post, it was kind of confusing.

Opposing corners can work very well, combined with EQ.
Any opposite sides cancels nulls.
Opposing corners can cancel nulls along the length and width axes.
Plus, you get the (big) output benefit of corner loading.
The potential down sides are:
1) It can create some big peaks (easily tamed with EQ).
2) It doesn't cancel the null from the perpendicular diagonal.
3) You'll get some seat to seat inconsistency.

In some cases it's a great option, though. Worth a try.
There are always compromises, especially without more subs.

Ideally, use two corners that are good for corner loading (no open hallways).
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post #33882 of 33900 Old Today, 08:47 AM
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So my neighbor switched out his 215's for some 212's and dual OS's. He also got the 228HTR center with custom center stand to angle the speaker up. They are all the 2016 models and the 212's feature the new Neo magnet woofers Jeff recently posted pictures of. Wow is all I can say. Not only was the headroom ridiculous, with almost no setup other than delay setting for the subs and one small filter the seamless integration with the mains was outstanding. No comparison to the previous set up at any listening volume. The room also now featured a full ceiling cloud with 4 inch absorbers about an inch off the ceiling. Looked good and performed really well. Here are a few pics. Had to have the lights on otherwise the screen image was too bright for my camera settings. With the lights off the speakers disappeared. Really cool.

Not convinced I was impressed with the new 212's, just click the link.

JTR 212HTRs FOR SALE
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post #33883 of 33900 Old Today, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
So my neighbor switched out his 215's for some 212's and dual OS's. He also got the 228HTR center with custom center stand to angle the speaker up. They are all the 2016 models and the 212's feature the new Neo magnet woofers Jeff recently posted pictures of. Wow is all I can say. Not only was the headroom ridiculous, with almost no setup other than delay setting for the subs and one small filter the seamless integration with the mains was outstanding. No comparison to the previous set up at any listening volume. The room also now featured a full ceiling cloud with 4 inch absorbers about an inch off the ceiling. Looked good and performed really well. Here are a few pics. Had to have the lights on otherwise the screen image was too bright for my camera settings. With the lights off the speakers disappeared. Really cool.

Not convinced I was impressed with the new 212's, just click the link.

JTR 212HTRs FOR SALE
I wonder if swapping out the 213 model's woofers would be a worthwhile upgrade.
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post #33884 of 33900 Old Today, 09:09 AM
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I wonder if swapping out the 213 model's woofers would be a worthwhile upgrade.
probably would from what I heard last night. Might need xo work not sure. I just figured go for the whole enchalata if mine sell.

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post #33885 of 33900 Old Today, 09:21 AM
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probably would from what I heard last night. Might need xo work not sure. I just figured go for the whole enchalata if mine sell.
Any chance that you would be able to A B them with yours?

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probably would from what I heard last night. Might need xo work not sure. I just figured go for the whole enchalata if mine sell.
Could it be the room setup he has?

Maybe take your speakers over to see how they sound before making such a drastic move?
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post #33887 of 33900 Old Today, 09:48 AM
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Any chance that you would be able to A B them with yours?
That would be the only way I'd do it. Drag the old 212's down there and A/B them. I personally think the room is the difference. Although they are improved, I doubt it's a drastic improvement between the 2.
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aint the room guys. If anything my room is probably better. We already checked FR, impulse response. I set our FR to almost identical and my IR is way better (we didnt get dirac going yet on his). What we are hearing is driver differences. Overall there are still things in my set up that are better due to dirac, but what heard in the upper midbass area was due to driver difference. If I take more time to do IR in just a very specific band I can probably prove it, but I dont need to. This aint our first rodeo.

If it makes everyone feel better just go with the room theory, its a lot cheaper. I may even talk myself into it.

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post #33889 of 33900 Old Today, 10:14 AM
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aint the room guys. If anything my room is probably better. We already checked FR, impulse response. I set our FR to almost identical and my IR is way better (we didnt get dirac going yet on his). What we are hearing is driver differences. Overall there are still things in my set up that are better due to dirac, but what heard in the upper midbass area was due to driver difference. If I take more time to do IR in just a very specific band I can probably prove it, but I dont need to. This aint our first rodeo.

If it makes everyone feel better just go with the room theory, its a lot cheaper. I may even talk myself into it.

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post #33890 of 33900 Old Today, 10:26 AM
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Hearing the sub/mid driver difference?

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post #33891 of 33900 Old Today, 10:39 AM
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I think the mid to upper bass. I may do more measurements when I go back in a couple of weeks. Maybe I can do some range specific IR's

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post #33892 of 33900 Old Today, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
aint the room guys. If anything my room is probably better. We already checked FR, impulse response. I set our FR to almost identical and my IR is way better (we didnt get dirac going yet on his). What we are hearing is driver differences. Overall there are still things in my set up that are better due to dirac, but what heard in the upper midbass area was due to driver difference. If I take more time to do IR in just a very specific band I can probably prove it, but I dont need to. This aint our first rodeo.

If it makes everyone feel better just go with the room theory, its a lot cheaper. I may even talk myself into it.
Even if you are positive it would still be a cool test. If all you did was set distance settings you can just swap them out real quick and give all of us that don't have the opportunity to hear the differences in the same setup. All you have to lose is your back from carrying them over!!

Would love to know the results to see if the woofer upgrade would be worth it.

I remember Jeff stating that the 2015 model had 'relatively more' mid-bass, I think it says this on his site too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
So my neighbor switched out his 215's for some 212's and dual OS's. He also got the 228HTR center with custom center stand to angle the speaker up. They are all the 2016 models and the 212's feature the new Neo magnet woofers Jeff recently posted pictures of. Wow is all I can say. Not only was the headroom ridiculous, with almost no setup other than delay setting for the subs and one small filter the seamless integration with the mains was outstanding. No comparison to the previous set up at any listening volume. The room also now featured a full ceiling cloud with 4 inch absorbers about an inch off the ceiling. Looked good and performed really well. Here are a few pics. Had to have the lights on otherwise the screen image was too bright for my camera settings. With the lights off the speakers disappeared. Really cool.

Not convinced I was impressed with the new 212's, just click the link.

JTR 212HTRs FOR SALE
I missed this. I was talking with my wife last night about selling my 212HT's also. Thinking about getting a new pair of HTR's. Thinking of a new pair of caps to go with them. You think it is worth doing?
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
I think the mid to upper bass. I may do more measurements when I go back in a couple of weeks. Maybe I can do some range specific IR's
There must be some significant xover changes vs the older versions if there's enough difference to notice a difference lol

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post #33895 of 33900 Old Today, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
So my neighbor switched out his 215's for some 212's and dual OS's. He also got the 228HTR center with custom center stand to angle the speaker up. They are all the 2016 models and the 212's feature the new Neo magnet woofers Jeff recently posted pictures of. Wow is all I can say. Not only was the headroom ridiculous, with almost no setup other than delay setting for the subs and one small filter the seamless integration with the mains was outstanding. No comparison to the previous set up at any listening volume. The room also now featured a full ceiling cloud with 4 inch absorbers about an inch off the ceiling. Looked good and performed really well. Here are a few pics. Had to have the lights on otherwise the screen image was too bright for my camera settings. With the lights off the speakers disappeared. Really cool.

Not convinced I was impressed with the new 212's, just click the link.

JTR 212HTRs FOR SALE
Looks great but couldn't you talk him into an AT screen? I know the 228 is a capable speaker but I would think matching LCR's would make a significant (e.g noticeable) difference.

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post #33896 of 33900 Old Today, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Even if you are positive it would still be a cool test. If all you did was set distance settings you can just swap them out real quick and give all of us that don't have the opportunity to hear the differences in the same setup. All you have to lose is your back from carrying them over!!

Would love to know the results to see if the woofer upgrade would be worth it.

I remember Jeff stating that the 2015 model had 'relatively more' mid-bass, I think it says this on his site too.
I may do it once they sell if the buyer doesn't mind since they have to come out but I probably wont remove them twice.

The 2015 model did get a bit of mid bass boost with some xo change from what I remember, but the new 2016 has a new Neo magnet driver so it is a new animal.

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post #33897 of 33900 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I missed this. I was talking with my wife last night about selling my 212HT's also. Thinking about getting a new pair of HTR's. Thinking of a new pair of caps to go with them. You think it is worth doing?
yes I do, firs impression was really good!

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Sony VPL HW40ES
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #33898 of 33900 Old Today, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
There must be some significant xover changes vs the older versions if there's enough difference to notice a difference lol
I think there are some differences to the XO but of course only Jeff would know the details. Just so everyone is clear I am not even saying more midbass b/c we have almost identical FR, I am noticing tighter midbass going into the upper base. Maybe the larger horn is affecting too, but then again two weeks earlier with the 215, in the same room I did not get the same impression at all.

I am not a speaker engineer but maybe a better driver with stonger magnet can react quicker or more accurately. It just sounds tighter with more impact at the same SPL. Just guessing on that.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Sony VPL HW40ES
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
lbrown105 is online now  
post #33899 of 33900 Old Today, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Looks great but couldn't you talk him into an AT screen? I know the 228 is a capable speaker but I would think matching LCR's would make a significant (e.g noticeable) difference.
you know I love the AT screen with matching LCR but he has done a great job in such a short time, and the 228HTR does perform well. Plus looking at the set up is kind of fun and intimidating for people who have never seen a system like this. None of us crazies, just the general public of course.
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Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Sony VPL HW40ES
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
lbrown105 is online now  
post #33900 of 33900 Old Today, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
I think there are some differences to the XO but of course only Jeff would know the details. Just so everyone is clear I am not even saying more midbass b/c we have almost identical FR, I am noticing tighter midbass going into the upper base. Maybe the larger horn is affecting too, but then again two weeks earlier with the 215, in the same room I did not get the same impression at all.

I am not a speaker engineer but maybe a better driver with stonger magnet can react quicker or more accurately. It just sounds tighter with more impact at the same SPL. Just guessing on that.
I'm sure theres some reason it sounds better.... and now you get the fun task of finding out why! My personal favorite part!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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