Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1147 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:42 PM
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Lotta kit on those boards fellas.
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:49 PM
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So I sold ghorns last night and the guy who Came over to check them out was just loving the 215s lol. I was talking to him today arranging the pickup and he couldn't believe how good they were, he had never heard of JTR before..... I think he was more excited about the 215s than the ghorns!!!
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Old 03-15-2016, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Another cool scene to demo is the bass guitar part with Robert warming up for the show. Put on a HUGE house curve and turn up the bass 30 db's hot or so.
Carp - do you have to "turn" up the bass 30db or is just always there?
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

wow!!!!! For some reason the pic didn't come through but you all know what that WOW is for.

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Old 03-15-2016, 06:22 PM
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My Cherry amps showed up and I setup a little 2 channel system in my basement. There isn't any room treatment or anything yet.



I decided to pick up an OmniMic to familiarize myself with it since so many people have it



Here is the left speaker, in room, 1 meter, no smoothing, no eq, no room treatments



1/6th smoothing:



raw vs smoothed:
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Old 03-15-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
My Cherry amps showed up and I setup a little 2 channel system in my basement. There isn't any room treatment or anything yet.



I decided to pick up an OmniMic to familiarize myself with it since so many people have it



Here is the left speaker, in room, 1 meter, no smoothing, no eq, no room treatments



1/6th smoothing:



raw vs smoothed:
Nice!! Flat to 10hz!!!

I am guessing you don't have a HPF on these?

Are these the 2015 version? How far apart are these (cd to cd)?
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Old 03-15-2016, 08:29 PM
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A thousand times this ^

It's true though that One is the best for a sub demo, but Orion sounds so good it's always dangerous for my ears. Volume keeps going up and up... and up...
Watched the blu Ray this evening and I am leaning towards Orion. It is kind of long but sounds awesome!!!

My room is totally changing after this GTG. Triax subs will be replaced with S2's and 210RT's will be going home with one of the GTG attendees - will be replaced by 215RT's in late April

Will have to slum it with some 80's era Klipsch Cornwall's (LCR) holding down the fort until the 215's arrive.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:28 AM
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wow, that's a big cap!

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Old 03-16-2016, 08:37 PM
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@desertdome , I still haven't re-run Audyssey yet, but I played with the symetrix 551e on the nearfield tonight taking a close mic measurement with the omnimic about six inches from the center of the centermost nearfield sealed sub. By boosting the snot out 10hz and 12hz I can get the following nearfield FR. The black line is with all EQ turned off - just the nearfield closemic. The green line, is the new EQ settings, with the modified EQ on the Symetrix - but still sans Audyssey. When I run Audyssey again I should be able to get flat down to below 10hz once again.

The symetrix unit has (I think) a non defeatable high pass filter at 6hz which I blame for the drop towards 10hz on the. Eq'ed chart. Seeing that I'm boosting 12dB at 10hz, that's really a reasonable explanation anyway. The hpf dial is turned all the way which reads 6hz, changing it slightly up definately increases the rolloff as measured with omnimic.

Turning on Audyssey with the former settings and dynamic EQ actually gives me a bit of a house curve now, but lately I've not been much of a fan of dynamic EQ and have been running without. I'll be curious to learn if my CV-5000 amp is up for the task of pushing this much boost to the subs for the nearfield. It doesn't appear, as one might expect, I'm getting much room gain from the three UM18-22 in sealed boxes behind my three main listening position chairs - effectively in the middle of the room.

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Old 03-16-2016, 08:46 PM
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I ran some compression sweeps tonight of the Volt 6 and JTR Speakers Slant 8. I used Omnimic and calibrated the level at 114 dB with a Galaxy Audio CM-C200 calibrator. I need -.96 dB of adjustment on my Omnimic.

I playback the Omnimic sweeps on my HTPC while using my laptop to take the measurements. I control the volume and playback with the app on my phone. I only need to hear about 3 sweeps to get the measurement.



I started each sweep with the volume at -35 dB in reference to my maximum output. I used a 400 watt per channel @ 8 ohm amp, the Digital Amp Company Cherry Mono Ultra, for the sweeps. The speaker was about 3 ft off the floor and the microphone was 1 M from the speaker.









At 100 Hz, the Slant 8's have 8 dB more output than the Volt 6's. The measurements don't tell you what the speakers sound like. When just listening to the sweeps, the Slant 8's could be played about 15 dB higher than the Volt 6's without sounding uncomfortable to listen to.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:59 PM
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Here is a measurement of my dual LS-6 center speaker project with active crossovers . . . from the listening position. It shows it with no smoothing and with 1/6 octave smoothing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I still haven't re-run Audyssey yet, but I played with the symetrix 551e on the nearfield tonight taking a close mic measurement with the omnimic about six inches from the center of the centermost nearfield sealed sub. By boosting the snot out 10hz and 12hz I can get the following nearfield FR. The black line is with all EQ turned off - just the nearfield closemic. The green line, is the new EQ settings, with the modified EQ on the Symetrix - but still sans Audyssey.
I bet that feels very impressive from the seats! Looks great!
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:01 AM
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What are the enclosures for the Volts and S8's that you tested?
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:37 AM
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Do you have any measurments in half space? I am curious to see if the low end will be more in line with the rest of the curve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I ran some compression sweeps tonight of the Volt 6 and JTR Speakers Slant 8. I used Omnimic and calibrated the level at 114 dB with a Galaxy Audio CM-C200 calibrator. I need -.96 dB of adjustment on my Omnimic.

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Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:52 AM
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What are the enclosures for the Volts and S8's that you tested?
The JTR is the Slant 8 and the Volt 6 is in the Volt 6 angled cabinet from DIY Sound Group.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
Do you have any measurments in half space? I am curious to see if the low end will be more in line with the rest of the curve.
No, I don't. I probably should have used an 80 Hz high pass since most will use that anyway.

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Old 03-17-2016, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post




At 100 Hz, the Slant 8's have 8 dB more output than the Volt 6's. The measurements don't tell you what the speakers sound like. When just listening to the sweeps, the Slant 8's could be played about 15 dB higher than the Volt 6's without sounding uncomfortable to listen to.

Another note - those measurements are at 1 meter....


At 3 meter (9 feet) you lose right at about 10dB at the same power levels. The volt six won't meet reference expectation (105dB per speaker) at that distance with a ~10dB drop from their max shown output. Couple that with Desertdome's subjective note quoted above - and you've got a pretty clear case for the S8 if the budget allows.


SPL/Distance calculator

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

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Old 03-17-2016, 07:17 AM
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Any measurements on sealed volt 10s? Wondering how they compare with the slant 8's.

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Old 03-17-2016, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Here is a measurement of my dual LS-6 center speaker project with active crossovers . . . from the listening position. It shows it with no smoothing and with 1/6 octave smoothing.




I bet that feels very impressive from the seats! Looks great!

Wow man.... that's the smoothest/best looking at the seat measurement I've ever seen!! How far back from your LS-6 center do you sit and what are the room dimensions?
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:26 AM
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heheh


no, might I remind you @carp, those polk towers at zltful holds that honor.

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Old 03-17-2016, 07:35 AM
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heheh


no, might I remind you @carp, those polk towers at zltful holds that honor.

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Ha! I forgot about that. However, I'd bet that DD has him beat if you post from 7hz up to 20 khz.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:44 AM
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This is all I've got. Still -- frankly not a bad FR for a pair of Polk towers in a very small untreated townhouse room with (was it three?) SVS ported subs. No previous attempt at fine tuning anything - just plopped them down in really the only available spots, and run Audyssey XT32. IIRC, he hadn't ever measured his room before. This is just what it chanced to be. Probably, personally, the most surprising FR I've ever captured. He's moved now, lives right by dlbeck. I've not kept up, but I think he's changing out his whole system as part of his move.


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Old 03-17-2016, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
This is all I've got. Still -- frankly not a bad FR for a pair of Polk towers in a very small untreated townhouse room with (was it three?) SVS ported subs. No previous attempt at fine tuning anything - just plopped them down in really the only available spots, and run Audyssey XT32. IIRC, he hadn't ever measured his room before. This is just what it chanced to be. Probably, personally, the most surprising FR I've ever captured. He's moved now, lives right by dlbeck. I've not kept up, but I think he's changing out his whole system as part of his move.



Proof that pretty measurements don't mean everything!
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Another note - those measurements are at 1 meter....


At 3 meter (9 feet) you lose right at about 10dB at the same power levels. The volt six won't meet reference expectation (105dB per speaker) at that distance with a ~10dB drop from their max shown output. Couple that with Desertdome's subjective note quoted above - and you've got a pretty clear case for the S8 if the budget allows.


SPL/Distance calculator

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm
Good points Archaea. I did a mono music listening test between my JBL Cinema 8340a and the Slanted 8 and the SQ differences and output capability were obvious with the Slanted 8's preferable by a good margin. I failed in an attempt to sell the JBL's and so still have them for ceiling (ATMOS/DSU) duty. Actually the JBL's sound fine when played as part of the total sound system and so like the Volts, they are an acceptable inexpensive alternative. But once I did my A/B listening test my goose was cooked so I will be getting S8-LP's this year and someone will be getting some JBL's for a very good price.

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Old 03-17-2016, 08:04 AM
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Wow man.... that's the smoothest/best looking at the seat measurement I've ever seen!! How far back from your LS-6 center do you sit and what are the room dimensions?

Room treatments and DSP does a lot however a line source can never be as coherent as a point source. The trouble with line sources is the sound gets smeared from the multiple arrivals because of the distances between the drivers. JTR act as a true point source because the sound from the tweeter, mid and woofers arrive to the listener at the same time and from apparently the same location.
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Old 03-17-2016, 08:32 AM
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Proof that pretty measurements don't mean everything!


agreed. His measurement looked flatter than dlbeck's on that home theater crawl, but there is no question which one sounded better.

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Old 03-17-2016, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Room treatments and DSP does a lot however a line source can never be as coherent as a point source. The trouble with line sources is the sound gets smeared from the multiple arrivals because of the distances between the drivers. JTR act as a true point source because the sound from the tweeter, mid and woofers arrive to the listener at the same time and from apparently the same location.
My system is sort of like DLP projectors. With a DLP projector only red, blue, or green is displayed at one time on the screen. However, it happens so fast that your brain thinks it is seeing one image. I hear the sound separately from each woofer and tweeter, but the interval is so minor that I hear it all as a point source. Or something like that.

I've learned to listen fast . . . so I can understand my wife.
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Old 03-17-2016, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
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Any measurements on sealed volt 10s? Wondering how they compare with the slant 8's.

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@W00lly lives about 4 miles from me and has some Volt 10's. I'm not sure if they are sealed or ported. I'll see if he will bring one over for a measurement.

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Old 03-17-2016, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
@W00lly lives about 4 miles from me and has some Volt 10's. I'm not sure if they are sealed or ported. I'll see if he will bring one over for a measurement.
That would be awesome, curious to hear the results. I built some sealed volt 10s and am impressed with them for surround duity, but it would be nice to see what I'm missing from not having slant 8s. 100hz seems to be the ideal crossover for the volts.

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Old 03-17-2016, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
This is all I've got. Still -- frankly not a bad FR for a pair of Polk towers in a very small untreated townhouse room with (was it three?) SVS ported subs. No previous attempt at fine tuning anything - just plopped them down in really the only available spots, and run Audyssey XT32. IIRC, he hadn't ever measured his room before. This is just what it chanced to be. Probably, personally, the most surprising FR I've ever captured. He's moved now, lives right by dlbeck. I've not kept up, but I think he's changing out his whole system as part of his move.


That's pretty lucky right there. I'd rather be lucky than good at anything as my dad would say... Some people spend 6 figures and can't boast a response like that. With that said, we all know a flat line doesn't mean everything is accounted for.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:25 PM
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That's pretty lucky right there. I'd rather be lucky than good at anything as my dad would say... Some people spend 6 figures and can't boast a response like that. With that said, we all know a flat line doesn't mean everything is accounted for.

Yep ^. It did not sound very good. Not to be mean, it just wasn't a sound that I like.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:16 PM
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Yep ^. It did not sound very good. Not to be mean, it just wasn't a sound that I like.
yep, need to see the IR, group delay and bass decay waterfall. Still doesn't tell you everything but a lot more than FR alone. Still an impressive looking curve. If the other key measurements were equally as impressive then I bet it would sound great!
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