Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1174 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-07-2016, 06:14 PM
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As far as the uxl group by went, Mark had his cnc machine go down amd had to buy a new one. It was almost 5 months just waiting for them to install it into his shop and set it up. He only builds subs in his spare time and has a regular 9-5 job, he didn't have 15k to drop on a new machine when it broke.

When your a small company, lead times can be tough when you are at the mercy of other suppliers. It can be months waiting for the smallest thing like a Specialized cone, spider etc.
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Old 07-07-2016, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
I understand where he is coming from. No one hates delays and missed deadlines more than me.

On a good note, by the end of next week we'll have Captivator 1400's, S1's, S2's, 4000ULF's and Orbit Shifter LFU's in stock.
That's a comment that is nothing less than I would expect from you Jeff. You're a first class act.

I'm not too thrilled to see a reference to RA here, even if it was a joke.

To anyone reading this thread, this is Jeff's livelihood, and he has spent years earning the equity of trust from many customers. JTR is not a newcomer to the ID scene, and in fact is the gold standard for what an ID company should be IMO:

HIGH INTEGRITY
TRUSTWORTHY
HIGH QUALITY AND CRAFTSMANSHIP
HIGH VALUE
PROVEN, 3rd PARTY TESTED PRODUCTS

There is no similarity between JTR and RA. I do wish RA the best and hope they can pull out of this, but JTR is on a whole other level.

JTR has my highest recommendation. No one should be hesitant to purchase from JTR IMO. Delays happen, but there is no better indicator for future behavior than to look at past behavior. Which in Jeff's case has been exemplary.
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Old 07-08-2016, 06:46 AM
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Have you thought about zooming out and semi-permanently masking a few inches of the screen with an black AT fabric? This way you can maintain the same viewing angle while gaining some extra brightness from the slightly smaller image.

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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Not a bad plan ... problem is I sit really close to a huge screen. I love it, but I wouldn't want to be any closer and I can't move back the front row. I've seen 4K (well eshift anyway) and I know I can sit closer for that but it's going to be a lot of years before everything including tv is in 4K. At that point I could put them behind the screen and move it closer to me, and that's what I'll do if they don't sell.

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Old 07-08-2016, 07:14 AM
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I really hate to post this considering what I wrote above. But anyway, right after I hit send, the Fed Ex truck pulled up and with a special delivery. I forgot it was coming, however the first 4000ULF Cap has arrived!! And yes I waited a month or so for it. Hopefully get it set up by the end of weekend. Cannot wait to get my living room system back together as it has been undone for quite awhile now.
I am looking forward your impression of the 4000ULF. Are you planning on placing this nearfield in your living room system?

Perhaps a quick run down of your current system(s) configs would be helpful cause I can't seem to keep up.

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Old 07-08-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
Have you thought about zooming out and semi-permanently masking a few inches of the screen with an black AT fabric? This way you can maintain the same viewing angle while gaining some extra brightness from the slightly smaller image.
If I only had 1 row and didn't have movie nights and people over for sports etc. I would think about that... but part of what I love about the room is how big the screen is even for the people in the back.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:48 AM
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Carp, why are you so worried about putting the speakers behind the screen? just curious.

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Old 07-08-2016, 11:53 AM
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Carp, why are you so worried about putting the speakers behind the screen? just curious.
I just want to have it as an option. I like trying stuff out to see if I like it. However, I bet I'll end up just keeping them where the 215's are for movies and move them in some (to form equal triangle thing) for music and not put the mains behind the screen.

If I hadn't treated the front wall it would never have mattered because for 2 channel music I have always preferred the mains wider from each other than I am from them.

However, after treating the front wall I recently discovered that the speakers sound even better when they have 15 inches of insulation behind them instead of having stacks of subwoofers behind them.

So, honestly that's the real motivation - having speakers that are easy to move.

I have too much time on my hands in the summer to think about this stuff.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I am looking forward your impression of the 4000ULF. Are you planning on placing this nearfield in your living room system?

Perhaps a quick run down of your current system(s) configs would be helpful cause I can't seem to keep up.
In the theater I am running 2 215RT's with a 215RM center along with 4 S8's. I have them paired to dual PSA Triax's. This all running off a Denon X7200WA and an Emotiva amp.

The Living is where the 4000ULF will be and it will be paired with my original 212HT's. I have some Mourdant Short Carnival 2's I will be using for surrounds and running off of a Denon 4520. We have a fairly large living room that opens up into the kitchen and a long hallway, so again the room is just wide open. We don't watch many movies in the living room, but we tend to watch lots of TV and we pretty much eat in the living room. My wife has been asking me to get the living room system back up and running, but I needed a sub and I was looking at quite a few. The top of my list was a pair of 118 caps. Then I was thinking a pair of S1's. I then started looking at another Triax and Tom also has a similar sub called the 3600i. Jeff started to talk about the 4000ULF and mentioned 10HZ and he had my attention. Then a few weeks later he posted a pic on FB and I could not hold back and bought it. Not really going to use this sub to its potential, just a nice sub for movies and TV. Just wanted something capable of filling a big room and plenty of power if needed. Plan is to get another so I have it for the future for another room down the road here.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:55 AM
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Ha, I even briefly considered taking out the sub stacks and filling it all in with insulation - then I could keep the 215's. I can't do it though, I have no where else to put the subs.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
In the theater I am running 2 215RT's with a 215RM center along with 4 S8's. I have them paired to dual PSA Triax's. This all running off a Denon X7200WA and an Emotiva amp.

The Living is where the 4000ULF will be and it will be paired with my original 212HT's. I have some Mourdant Short Carnival 2's I will be using for surrounds and running off of a Denon 4520. We have a fairly large living room that opens up into the kitchen and a long hallway, so again the room is just wide open. We don't watch many movies in the living room, but we tend to watch lots of TV and we pretty much eat in the living room. My wife has been asking me to get the living room system back up and running, but I needed a sub and I was looking at quite a few. The top of my list was a pair of 118 caps. Then I was thinking a pair of S1's. I then started looking at another Triax and Tom also has a similar sub called the 3600i. Jeff started to talk about the 4000ULF and mentioned 10HZ and he had my attention. Then a few weeks later he posted a pic on FB and I could not hold back and bought it. Not really going to use this sub to its potential, just a nice sub for movies and TV. Just wanted something capable of filling a big room. Plan is to get another so I have it for the future for another room down the road here.

Dave you're my hero man. 212's and eventually dual Cap 4000's for a living room setup!!!

When you get the second, any thoughts of moving them to the HT room and moving the PSA's to the living room?
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Dave you're my hero man. 212's and eventually dual Cap 4000's for a living room setup!!!

When you get the second, any thoughts of moving them to the HT room and moving the PSA's to the living room?
I have thought about it allot! Dual Cap 4000ULF's will not fit in my theater. I mean maybe behind the seats, but the Triax's are holding my center channel and to be honest I am very happy with the set up and sound. I just want to get another so I have a pair incase we move and I get my dream room down the road here!
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I just want to have it as an option. I like trying stuff out to see if I like it. However, I bet I'll end up just keeping them where the 215's are for movies and move them in some (to form equal triangle thing) for music and not put the mains behind the screen.

If I hadn't treated the front wall it would never have mattered because for 2 channel music I have always preferred the mains wider from each other than I am from them.

However, after treating the front wall I recently discovered that the speakers sound even better when they have 15 inches of insulation behind them instead of having stacks of subwoofers behind them.

So, honestly that's the real motivation - having speakers that are easy to move.

I have too much time on my hands in the summer to think about this stuff.
That's cool. I knew you were thinking about it. I'm lucky that if I actually ever decided to sell my 215s, I could do it in a hour.... Though the thought of having to move them out of the basement means they will be down there till we move out of our house lol. Taking the ghorns up the stairs was pretty much the worst thing I've ever done. Lol

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Old 07-08-2016, 02:31 PM
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All of you JTR 215RT/RM owners out there, @rhed @RMK @raynist @reef drv27 @N8DOGG @blackangus formerly @carp what are you using for EQ? Jeff recommended dirac via nanoavr dl so that there's no additional digital/analog conversion... I also saw the DDRC-24 with Dirac was very recently released as well.

I am expecting some used 2014 215RTs\215RM to arrive next week To start off I will be running them off my Denon 4311ci with a Crown DSI 4000 for the L/R 215RTs and a Crown XTI 2002 bridged for the Center 215RM..

I am a bit torn on whether to invest in dirac knowing there's dsp abilities on the amps, XT32 on my Denon, and having a UMIK/REW and minidsp 2x4 to play with already.

I plan to have an older S1 in the mix if I ever get it working properly but that will likely be it for subs, at least for a while. So I am hoping to tweak the low end of the 215s to make up for the decrease in number of subs.

Thoughts/ suggestions? Greatly appreciate any advice guys.

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Old 07-08-2016, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
All of you JTR 215RT/RM owners out there, @rhed @RMK @raynist @reef drv27 @N8DOGG @blackangus formerly @carp what are you using for EQ? Jeff recommended dirac via nanoavr dl so that there's no additional digital/analog conversion... I also saw the DDRC-24 with Dirac was very recently released as well.

I am expecting some used 2014 215RTs\215RM to arrive next week To start off I will be running them off my Denon 4311ci with a Crown DSI 4000 for the L/R 215RTs and a Crown XTI 2002 bridged for the Center 215RM..

I am a bit torn on whether to invest in dirac knowing there's dsp abilities on the amps, XT32 on my Denon, and having a UMIK/REW and minidsp 2x4 to play with already.

I plan to have an older S1 in the mix if I ever get it working properly but that will likely be it for subs, at least for a while. So I am hoping to tweak the low end of the 215s to make up for the decrease in number of subs.

Thoughts/ suggestions? Greatly appreciate any advice guys.


For a long time (2 years) I used the dsp on the inuke 3000. A few weeks ago I bought a Crown xti 4002 and it has a similar, if not better dsp. It's quieter too (less hiss). However, even more recently I hooked up a minidsp 88A with the 88 MB plug in and it has everything for dsp I would ever want, not only for the mains but for all the speakers and subs.

If I were you I'd try out the dsp in those amps before getting anything else, you may find they have everything you need.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:54 PM
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I don't use anything at the moment. My room is pretty good for them. I use the Audyssey in my 7702 but set it to bypass L and R. They measure good enough for me not to bother eq'ing.
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:19 PM
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I don't use anything at the moment. My room is pretty good for them. I use the Audyssey in my 7702 but set it to bypass L and R. They measure good enough for me not to bother eq'ing.
Same here ...
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
All of you JTR 215RT/RM owners out there, @rhed @RMK @raynist @reef drv27 @N8DOGG @blackangus formerly @carp what are you using for EQ? Jeff recommended dirac via nanoavr dl so that there's no additional digital/analog conversion... I also saw the DDRC-24 with Dirac was very recently released as well.

I am expecting some used 2014 215RTs\215RM to arrive next week To start off I will be running them off my Denon 4311ci with a Crown DSI 4000 for the L/R 215RTs and a Crown XTI 2002 bridged for the Center 215RM..

I am a bit torn on whether to invest in dirac knowing there's dsp abilities on the amps, XT32 on my Denon, and having a UMIK/REW and minidsp 2x4 to play with already.

I plan to have an older S1 in the mix if I ever get it working properly but that will likely be it for subs, at least for a while. So I am hoping to tweak the low end of the 215s to make up for the decrease in number of subs.

Thoughts/ suggestions? Greatly appreciate any advice guys.
For movies I don't EQ at all other than Audyssey (my subs are using a mini DSP 10x10). For music I use the EQ in jriver.

I have 8 extra channels in the mini DSP and plan to use that to do some EQ. Interesting about the nanoavr. I just about everything through my Oppo 105 so I could use that.
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Old 07-08-2016, 04:17 PM
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I disabled all EQ done on my Inuks. I just let my new avr do all the EQ. Did a pretty good job too.
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Old 07-08-2016, 04:26 PM
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I disabled all EQ done on my Inuks. I just let my new avr do all the EQ. Did a pretty good job too.
Each one of my 215RT's is hooked up to a single bridged inuke 3000 DSP but I don't use the DSP at all.
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Old 07-08-2016, 04:40 PM
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Each one of my 215RT's is hooked up to a single bridged inuke 3000 DSP but I don't use the DSP at all.
Nice.. Yea, I'm still running the 12000 dsp for the 2 RT's, 6000 for the RM, and 2 3000 for the 4 210 RT's. All DSP from the amps disabled. I recently ran 2 more circuits for the amps pushing the 210's. Now every single amp including the subs are on their own circuit. Including the avr. I think that's too over board though.I let it loose 4th of July weekend with some music through Tidal. Switch the avr to EXT. stereo. It's just crazy how much you can push these JTR equipment without a hiccup. Friggin amazing! Kudos to Jeff for badass designs.. Solid investments..
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Old 07-08-2016, 05:48 PM
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Nice.. Yea, I'm still running the 12000 dsp for the 2 RT's, 6000 for the RM, and 2 3000 for the 4 210 RT's. All DSP from the amps disabled. I recently ran 2 more circuits for the amps pushing the 210's. Now every single amp including the subs are on their own circuit. Including the avr. I think that's too over board though.I let it loose 4th of July weekend with some music through Tidal. Switch the avr to EXT. stereo. It's just crazy how much you can push these JTR equipment without a hiccup. Friggin amazing! Kudos to Jeff for badass designs.. Solid investments..
Yeah, although I don't crank it like that often, I think it would be impossible for me to go back to typical consumer designs where you're thinking about smoking drivers instead of smoking your ears . I recall when I had the LG10000Q on my 212's, haha. Sick man. Overkill drizzled over overkill.

Even if it was only once a year, being able to indiscriminately spin the volume knob is priceless.
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Old 07-08-2016, 07:39 PM
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Nice.. Yea, I'm still running the 12000 dsp for the 2 RT's, 6000 for the RM, and 2 3000 for the 4 210 RT's. All DSP from the amps disabled. I recently ran 2 more circuits for the amps pushing the 210's. Now every single amp including the subs are on their own circuit. Including the avr. I think that's too over board though.I let it loose 4th of July weekend with some music through Tidal. Switch the avr to EXT. stereo. It's just crazy how much you can push these JTR equipment without a hiccup. Friggin amazing! Kudos to Jeff for badass designs.. Solid investments..
Actually, I am using the HP filter (@ 20hz with a 12db slope) on the Inuke for the full range 215RT LCR's. This was based upon Jeff's recommendation. I have plenty of room gain down low and the bass is very impactfull in the audible frequency range. Chasing single digit output is tilting at windmills.

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Old 07-08-2016, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
All of you JTR 215RT/RM owners out there, @rhed @RMK @raynist @reef drv27 @N8DOGG @blackangus formerly @carp what are you using for EQ? Jeff recommended dirac via nanoavr dl so that there's no additional digital/analog conversion... I also saw the DDRC-24 with Dirac was very recently released as well.

I am expecting some used 2014 215RTs\215RM to arrive next week To start off I will be running them off my Denon 4311ci with a Crown DSI 4000 for the L/R 215RTs and a Crown XTI 2002 bridged for the Center 215RM..

I am a bit torn on whether to invest in dirac knowing there's dsp abilities on the amps, XT32 on my Denon, and having a UMIK/REW and minidsp 2x4 to play with already.

I plan to have an older S1 in the mix if I ever get it working properly but that will likely be it for subs, at least for a while. So I am hoping to tweak the low end of the 215s to make up for the decrease in number of subs.

Thoughts/ suggestions? Greatly appreciate any advice guys.
If you have a calibrated mic and a PC/laptop, you can try Dirac for free before investing in it. I use the software version along with JRiver.
http://www.dirac.com/online-store
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Old 07-09-2016, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
All of you JTR 215RT/RM owners out there, @rhed @RMK @raynist @reef drv27 @N8DOGG @blackangus formerly @carp what are you using for EQ? Jeff recommended dirac via nanoavr dl so that there's no additional digital/analog conversion... I also saw the DDRC-24 with Dirac was very recently released as well.

I am expecting some used 2014 215RTs\215RM to arrive next week To start off I will be running them off my Denon 4311ci with a Crown DSI 4000 for the L/R 215RTs and a Crown XTI 2002 bridged for the Center 215RM..

I am a bit torn on whether to invest in dirac knowing there's dsp abilities on the amps, XT32 on my Denon, and having a UMIK/REW and minidsp 2x4 to play with already.

I plan to have an older S1 in the mix if I ever get it working properly but that will likely be it for subs, at least for a while. So I am hoping to tweak the low end of the 215s to make up for the decrease in number of subs.

Thoughts/ suggestions? Greatly appreciate any advice guys.
Everyone seems to agree dirac in some form is one of the best room correction systems to use. Its on my list of things to try over time.
Currently I have my AVR doing room correction on the system with a minidsp 2x4 doing the highpass on the 215RT's. I am then using the AVR to manage the sub from 80hz down.
Im going to fool around with having the AVR do room correction except for the 215's and do manual filters on the 2x4 for room correction.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:49 AM
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Everyone seems to agree dirac in some form is one of the best room correction systems to use. Its on my list of things to try over time.
They are honestly all good. You'll find a lot of fans of all the different room corrections.

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Old 07-09-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Actually, I am using the HP filter (@ 20hz with a 12db slope) on the Inuke for the full range 215RT LCR's. This was based upon Jeff's recommendation. I have plenty of room gain down low and the bass is very impactfull in the audible frequency range. Chasing single digit output is tilting at windmills.
That's an interesting plot.

Could you let me know the smoothing and time window in OM for the measurement,any other processing applied including any auto correction and I'm assuming measured at MLP for a single speaker?
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Old 07-10-2016, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
Everyone seems to agree dirac in some form is one of the best room correction systems to use. Its on my list of things to try over time.
Currently I have my AVR doing room correction on the system with a minidsp 2x4 doing the highpass on the 215RT's. I am then using the AVR to manage the sub from 80hz down.
Im going to fool around with having the AVR do room correction except for the 215's and do manual filters on the 2x4 for room correction.
I've tried the following room correction systems. Here are my impressions.

Velodyne DD - Just sub EQ. Big improvement over no EQ for subs.

Older Audyssey versions - meh, sometimes better than nothing, sometimes not

Audyssey XT32 - Good. Overall, the bass was definitely improved over no EQ and it helped remove some room coloration, but no ability to dial in the target curve. Not enough control.

Audyseey XT32 Pro - Similar to XT32, but allows you to disable "midbass compensation," which I found to be a small improvement. Target curve UI tuning is impractical to use, due to long iteration time and bugs (which force you to remeasure for every iteration). I was able to pick my favorite preset curve, though.

Dirac - Far superior to any of these, once you get it tuned. Better sounding room correction + great iteration process for dialing in the target curve. I felt it was a big improvement over the entire frequency range. It cleans up issues with the room and speakers, and lets you dial in exactly what you want (as long as it's within the capabilities of the speakers - not an issue with JTRs!) The only potential downside with Dirac is that it removes some ambiance, more like you're listening to headphones. I liked this, but that's a subjective thing.

That said, I'd still recommend trying the free Dirac demo before spending money. You just need a PC/laptop, calibrated mic, and a boom stand. The main downside of Dirac is that if you want to combine it with Atmos, there still aren't many great options. Perhaps 2xDDRC-88As or future Emotiva products. My setup is still non-Atmos, using Dirac Live + JRiver + a 7.2 Preamp via HDMI.

Based on what I've read from other users, the only room correction systems that have been in Dirac's league are Trinnov and Audiolense XO.
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Last edited by rcohen; 07-10-2016 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 10:22 AM
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I am thinking of trying one of the Dirac options. The NanoAVR is pretty tempting as I only need 2 HDMI devices hooked up to it.
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Old 07-10-2016, 10:24 AM
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I am thinking of trying one of the Dirac options. The NanoAVR is pretty tempting as I only need 2 HDMI devices hooked up to it.
Except now that I think about it I like that Audyssey handles dual subs. Not sure how that would be done if the Nano AVR is only seeing a .1 signal.
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Old 07-10-2016, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Except now that I think about it I like that Audyssey handles dual subs. Not sure how that would be done if the Nano AVR is only seeing a .1 signal.
I have used all the audyssey variations including the pro kit and now have a 88A with dirac and although I prefer the dirac final results, it certainly makes for a more complicated system. Audyssey provides really good results at the xt32 and above level, all in a simple process. This is especially true if you have a atmos/dts-x speaker system.

For the amount of money i spent on amps, 88a, 2x4, cables and plugins i could have a jtr s2 and been happier.
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