Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1190 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35671 of 35693 Old 08-25-2016, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexBPM View Post
Are there any Noesis owners in Southern California that might be willing to give me a demo? I've been reading this thread for years and I've been dying to hear these speakers. I was even considering flying out to one of the GTG's but I keep missing them!
Hello Alex, you are welcome to come and listen to mine, may be a little bit however as my daughter is pregnant (she still lives at home) and is due any where's within the next week or so but after things settle a bit no problem.


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post #35672 of 35693 Old 08-25-2016, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post
Hello Alex, you are welcome to come and listen to mine, may be a little bit however as my daughter is pregnant (she still lives at home) and is due any where's within the next week or so but after things settle a bit no problem.
Wow congrats! Sounds like a very exciting time. I will absolutely take you up on that offer when things settle down. Love that drive up the coast!

"Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me" -Vizzini
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post #35673 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
As incredible as the number are for the 4000, the 215RT is pretty close from 20hz on up. I think I am most impressed with the numbers that puts up considering it isn't a dedicated sub.

Seriously. Look at this sh*t. The 215 is in light blue in all of these. From 20 hz and up (more like 17 hz actually) these are unreal. How many of you guys with 215 have been motivated to get a more powerful amp(s) for them since the measurements?

215 vs. Cap 1400








215 vs. Orbit Freaking Shifter:





215 vs. Cap 4000:






Just for fun, 215 vs well regarded sub the HSU VTF 15:


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post #35674 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Seriously. Look at this sh*t. The 215 is in light blue in all of these. From 20 hz and up (more like 17 hz actually) these are unreal. How many of you guys with 215 have been motivated to get a more powerful amp(s) for them since the measurements?

215 vs. Cap 1400








215 vs. Orbit Freaking Shifter:





215 vs. Cap 4000:






Just for fun, 215 vs well regarded sub the HSU VTF 15:




Here's a bassheads attempt to nudge a few 215RT owners into giving these speakers more wattage so they can really shine.


First off let me say that going into my amp testing of the NU4-6000 I wasn't expecting much but this amp pleasantly surprised me. It held really nice power all the way down to 5hz and took all the testing in stride. It never power cycled or muted, and also ran cool to the touch the whole time.


Second, the DB numbers lost going from a bridged K20 to an iNuke I'm showing below are conservative for several reasons, the most important being that the wattage numbers are only for a single channel driven. Once you're driving both channels into 4ohm loads on an inuke3k or two of four channels into 4ohm loads on an nu4-6000 the numbers only go down.









A doubling of wattage = 3db. A doubling of both the speaker and wattage = 6db. Going from (1) 215RT to (4) 215RT with 4 times the wattage = 12db.


That means from 50hz and up, if you're using a NU4-6000 not even (3) 215RT will match Ricci's K20 numbers for a single 215RT. At 100hz and 125hz, not even (4) 215RT will.


Food for thought
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Last edited by lukeamdman; Yesterday at 09:54 PM.
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post #35675 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 07:03 PM
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^^^^^^

BTW, that also means that if Josh used the NU4-6000 (in stereo mode) or iNuke 3k in stereo to test the 215RT, it would have lower SPL numbers at every single frequency vs. the Cap 1400 and its built in 1,400w amp.

Last edited by lukeamdman; Yesterday at 07:08 PM.
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post #35676 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM
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Yeah, DD posted that about the Cap 1400 having more than a 215 using non nuclear power. Or, you could think of it as the old passive Cap with Ricci's amp would have more output than the 215 on Ricci's amp.

All of that information goes out the window in my brain when I see those little lines on the graph next to each other.


Luke, have you happened to test a Crown 4002 xti? I'm using that now and noticed that it didn't clip as soon on the same sections of songs and movies as the inuke 6000 dsp so a lot more power than the inuke 3000 dsp I was using. If you have, how many db's down would my setup be from Ricci's amp?
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post #35677 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Yeah, DD posted that about the Cap 1400 having more than a 215 using non nuclear power. Or, you could think of it as the old passive Cap with Ricci's amp would have more output than the 215 on Ricci's amp.

All of that information goes out the window in my brain when I see those little lines on the graph next to each other.


Luke, have you happened to test a Crown 4002 xti? I'm using that now and noticed that it didn't clip as soon on the same sections of songs and movies as the inuke 6000 dsp so a lot more power than the inuke 3000 dsp I was using. If you have, how many db's down would my setup be from Ricci's amp?


I haven't tested that one, but just by looking at the specs (and Crown's spec are pretty accurate), you can add at least 3-4db to the inuke 3k's numbers.


The 4002 looks to have more power in 4ohm stereo than the 3k has in 2ohm stereo. Looks like a stout amp.
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post #35678 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I haven't tested that one, but just by looking at the specs (and Crown's spec are pretty accurate), you can add at least 3-4db to the inuke 3k's numbers.


The 4002 looks to have more power in 4ohm stereo than the 3k has in 2ohm stereo. Looks like a stout amp.
How about with a bridged CC4000?

Those numbers on the K20 are max output. We don't know how many watts he was feeding the 215RT's do we?
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post #35679 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 09:12 PM
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Absolutely love my 4002 xti and my 215 RM's, Match made on heaven. I can only imagine how you 215 RT owners feel.

I can eq the bass to the moon and still play almost any bass heavy music I want +6db over reference.

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post #35680 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
How about with a bridged CC4000?

Those numbers on the K20 are max output. We don't know how many watts he was feeding the 215RT's do we?

A bridged CC4000 will be 6-7db higher than the inuke 3k. However, the K20 and even a bridged CC4000 can get the 215RT into trouble (excursion limits) below 30hz, so it's not recommended.


Since Ricci took an impedance sweep and also noted the voltages used for each max burst reading, we actually have a pretty good idea of the wattage used. Take a look at the columns highlighted in blue in my post from a few hours ago.


Now, impedance will typically rise slightly as power goes up, and the impedance curve will also slightly change, but it'll still be fairly close to what I posted.
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post #35681 of 35693 Old Yesterday, 10:33 PM
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What about a bridge PLX-2502? Or a D-sonic M3-600M?
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post #35682 of 35693 Old Today, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Yeah, DD posted that about the Cap 1400 having more than a 215 using non nuclear power. Or, you could think of it as the old passive Cap with Ricci's amp would have more output than the 215 on Ricci's amp.

All of that information goes out the window in my brain when I see those little lines on the graph next to each other.


Luke, have you happened to test a Crown 4002 xti? I'm using that now and noticed that it didn't clip as soon on the same sections of songs and movies as the inuke 6000 dsp so a lot more power than the inuke 3000 dsp I was using. If you have, how many db's down would my setup be from Ricci's amp?
Crown XTi4002 is a nice amp.
I used a pair on my passive Captivators for 3 years and they never ran out of steam.
Quiet fans as wel.
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post #35683 of 35693 Old Today, 04:50 AM
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I had the Powersoft K3 on my subs very shortly.
Due to not excessive , but in my small room noticeable , fan noise I got a great deal on a pair of Powersofts M20D.

I already have one and these are very quiet under reasonable load.
The pair will be in bridge mode so 2400W for each Captivator.

Still want the S1's but now I can offer the passive Caps with great amps.....or keep them in case the Caps are sold..
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post #35684 of 35693 Old Today, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I haven't tested that one, but just by looking at the specs (and Crown's spec are pretty accurate), you can add at least 3-4db to the inuke 3k's numbers.


The 4002 looks to have more power in 4ohm stereo than the 3k has in 2ohm stereo. Looks like a stout amp.

It does seem pretty powerful. The inuke 6000 was giving me over 6 db's more before clip lights compared to the inuke 3000 on the same song and movie clips (I know that doesn't make sense, it shouldn't be that big of a difference but it was) and the Crown 4002 had another 1 to 1.5 db's on the same content before clip lights compared to the inuke 6000.

From owning passive Caps in the past I would estimate that a single 215 ran off of 1 channel of the Crown 4002 would be about the same output as a single Cap 1400. Does that sound about right?
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post #35685 of 35693 Old Today, 07:59 AM
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Note that I'm referring to the 6000 dsp, not the NU 4 6000 when comparing to the inuke 3000 dsp.
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post #35686 of 35693 Old Today, 08:08 AM
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i had the opportunity to pick up a pair of 215's not too long ago, and i regret not doing so. out of curiosity, would a setup of 215 (LR), 212(c) and no subs sound right if I set the 215's to full range? Or would I need to do a full LCR with them set to full. I currently have 212's as LCR and S2's as my subs, but with how powerful the S2's are, i have them set soooo low lol Just wondering if I would lose much performance in doing so.
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post #35687 of 35693 Old Today, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
It does seem pretty powerful. The inuke 6000 was giving me over 6 db's more before clip lights compared to the inuke 3000 on the same song and movie clips (I know that doesn't make sense, it shouldn't be that big of a difference but it was) and the Crown 4002 had another 1 to 1.5 db's on the same content before clip lights compared to the inuke 6000.

From owning passive Caps in the past I would estimate that a single 215 ran off of 1 channel of the Crown 4002 would be about the same output as a single Cap 1400. Does that sound about right?
With your amp I'd say you'd have a little more than a Cap 1400.
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post #35688 of 35693 Old Today, 09:08 AM
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i had the opportunity to pick up a pair of 215's not too long ago, and i regret not doing so. out of curiosity, would a setup of 215 (LR), 212(c) and no subs sound right if I set the 215's to full range? Or would I need to do a full LCR with them set to full. I currently have 212's as LCR and S2's as my subs, but with how powerful the S2's are, i have them set soooo low lol Just wondering if I would lose much performance in doing so.
I had 212's and dual OS's prior to the LCR 215RT's. The OS's were just loafing along and there was one period (about a week) where I watched several movies not nowing that one of the OS's was turned off . Although their overall performance was stellar, the only time the OS's were really able to show their stuff was when I would go crazy with the volume on demos. I think you are in the same boat with the 212's and S2's.

As to whether L&R 215RT's would supply sufficient bass, that is a question that only you can answer. Several 215RT mains only owners report very good bass from the full range pair for music but feel the need to supplement the bass for movies. My experience with the 215 LCR's is that I do not need to add subs for music or movies. The 215RT's impressive measurement numbers support my feelings in that regard but we all have different taste and goals so ... YMMV

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post #35689 of 35693 Old Today, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Here's a bassheads attempt to nudge a few 215RT owners into giving these speakers more wattage so they can really shine.


First off let me say that going into my amp testing of the NU4-6000 I wasn't expecting much but this amp pleasantly surprised me. It held really nice power all the way down to 5hz and took all the testing in stride. It never power cycled or muted, and also ran cool to the touch the whole time.


Second, the DB numbers lost going from a bridged K20 to an iNuke I'm showing below are conservative for several reasons, the most important being that the wattage numbers are only for a single channel driven. Once you're driving both channels into 4ohm loads on an inuke3k or two of four channels into 4ohm loads on an nu4-6000 the numbers only go down.






A doubling of wattage = 3db. A doubling of both the speaker and wattage = 6db. Going from (1) 215RT to (4) 215RT with 4 times the wattage = 12db.


That means from 50hz and up, if you're using a NU4-6000 not even (3) 215RT will match Ricci's K20 numbers for a single 215RT. At 100hz and 125hz, not even (4) 215RT will.


Food for thought
This is really interesting stuff Luke but who the hell listens to movies or music at 120+db? That is like driving a dragster to the supermarket ...
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post #35690 of 35693 Old Today, 09:35 AM
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Curious if any one has used Seaton submersives and jtr s2's at the same time.

I currently have a master slave submersive set up one on each side of my 215rms. I'd like to move the submersives to the right side of my sectional and run the S2's in the front of my room.

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post #35691 of 35693 Old Today, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylorman32 View Post
i had the opportunity to pick up a pair of 215's not too long ago, and i regret not doing so. out of curiosity, would a setup of 215 (LR), 212(c) and no subs sound right if I set the 215's to full range? Or would I need to do a full LCR with them set to full. I currently have 212's as LCR and S2's as my subs, but with how powerful the S2's are, i have them set soooo low lol Just wondering if I would lose much performance in doing so.


JTR 215 speakers for sale
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post #35692 of 35693 Old Today, 10:07 AM
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This is really interesting stuff Luke but who the hell listens to movies or music at 120+db? That is like driving a dragster to the supermarket ...
I seem to recall being at your place and being pummeled by ~130db levels by dual OS, and we couldn't wipe the smiles of our faces
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post #35693 of 35693 Old Today, 10:09 AM
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I seem to recall being at your place and being pummeled by ~130db levels by dual OS, and we couldn't wipe the smiles of our faces
Well there was that ...

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