Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1191 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 7203Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #35701 of 35715 Old 08-28-2016, 01:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,008
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 589 Post(s)
Liked: 426
And here's another at the rear..

Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	56.2 KB
ID:	1628041
rhed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #35702 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 07:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,710
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1477 Post(s)
Liked: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Well since most of you here know what JTR gear I'm sporting. I just took couple of shots with my iPad last night. Mind the bad shots. It was late and was tired..

Attachment 1628017

Attachment 1628025
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
And here's another at the rear..

Attachment 1628041
So you have 215RT mains, 215RM for center, 210RT's for surrounds and Slanted 8's for Atmos plus 4 S2's? That is totally insanely bad ass.

Opinions are not facts.
RMK! is online now  
post #35703 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 08:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Suggestions for a JTR on-wall setup?

For space and future-proofing reasons, I need to go on-wall.

12'x13'x9' dedicated/treated room, 98% home theater use, going for an IMAX-like experience: massive, deep, enveloping soundstage with big dynamics. I want to be transported away and my current setup doesn't do that.

I have a flat panel now but plan to go projector in 6-8 months, so the speakers would either go around the display or sit below it until I put them behind the screen. I don't mind if I have to use a vertical speaker horizontally below the flat panel for now until I get the screen.

I don't mind building shelves to put the speakers on, so long as the speakers can be placed flush against the wall. JBL has compression driver in-walls, but I don't want a permanent installation.

Appreciate any thoughts and ideas!

DefTech ProCinema 1000 L/R/SL/SR
DefTech ProCinema 2000 C
DefTech Supercube III
Denon AVR790
Oppo PM-3
GIK bass traps and absorption
sunPin is online now  
post #35704 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,949
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Suggestions for a JTR on-wall setup?

For space and future-proofing reasons, I need to go on-wall.

12'x13'x9' dedicated/treated room, 98% home theater use, going for an IMAX-like experience: massive, deep, enveloping soundstage with big dynamics. I want to be transported away and my current setup doesn't do that.

I have a flat panel now but plan to go projector in 6-8 months, so the speakers would either go around the display or sit below it until I put them behind the screen. I don't mind if I have to use a vertical speaker horizontally below the flat panel for now until I get the screen.

I don't mind building shelves to put the speakers on, so long as the speakers can be placed flush against the wall. JBL has compression driver in-walls, but I don't want a permanent installation.

Appreciate any thoughts and ideas!
Probably 228HTR's to put on he walls (shelf) as that is the lightest speaker other than the single 8's.

@carp mounted one of his 212's to a shelf on the wall so that could work also. Could go with HT's instead of HTR's to save some money (I wouldn't though)

Some form of S8's for the surrounds and probably a few S1's or S2's for subs.
1redz06 likes this.
raynist is online now  
post #35705 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Probably 228HTR's to put on he walls (shelf) as that is the lightest speaker other than the single 8's.

@carp mounted one of his 212's to a shelf on the wall so that could work also. Could go with HT's instead of HTR's to save some money (I wouldn't though)

Some form of S8's for the surrounds and probably a few S1's or S2's for subs.
That sounds cool. The HTR has a coaxial mid-range driver and the HT doesn't? Are the mids that much improved with the HTR?

Could the 228HTR be used horizontally for a while?

Also, is it recommended to place the 228HTR tweeters at ear level or is vertical dispersion so uniform that it doesn't matter so much? I ask because I might just keep them on the floor instead of building shelves if that's an option.

I wonder what kind of shelf @carp had to build for a 125lb speaker! I'd be scared that if the shelf broke, the speaker would fall through my second story floor.

DefTech ProCinema 1000 L/R/SL/SR
DefTech ProCinema 2000 C
DefTech Supercube III
Denon AVR790
Oppo PM-3
GIK bass traps and absorption
sunPin is online now  
post #35706 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 10:16 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
JBL Synthesis SAM3HA/SAM3VA vs JTR 228HTR as LCR for movies (high priority for the best reproduction of dialogue). Which will you choose?
I'm doing this exact comparison right now. What did you end up doing?

DefTech ProCinema 1000 L/R/SL/SR
DefTech ProCinema 2000 C
DefTech Supercube III
Denon AVR790
Oppo PM-3
GIK bass traps and absorption
sunPin is online now  
post #35707 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 10:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,949
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
That sounds cool. The HTR has a coaxial mid-range driver and the HT doesn't? Are the mids that much improved with the HTR?

Could the 228HTR be used horizontally for a while?

Also, is it recommended to place the 228HTR tweeters at ear level or is vertical dispersion so uniform that it doesn't matter so much? I ask because I might just keep them on the floor instead of building shelves if that's an option.

I wonder what kind of shelf @carp had to build for a 125lb speaker! I'd be scared that if the shelf broke, the speaker would fall through my second story floor.
The JTR speakers have a symmetrical waveguide so you can lay them sideways with no issue.

It would be best to have them at hear hieght if possible but if not maybe you can angle them up?

I am sure you could put them on the floor but I would angle them up towards your ears. It you are putting them on the floor until you get a screen then go for the 212 if you have room.
raynist is online now  
post #35708 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 10:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 3,032
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 931 Post(s)
Liked: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
This is really interesting stuff Luke but who the hell listens to movies or music at 120+db? That is like driving a dragster to the supermarket ...
I've listened to most of my concert Blu-rays at those levels. That's part of the point of a concert Blu-ray.

Audio systems are voltage systems and voltage requirements are often misunderstood. For example, someone says "This amp has a sensitivity of 1.4 VRMS and my receiver can output 4 VRMS. I guess I'm good!" What they are missing is that testing is always done with a sine wave with a 3 dB crest factor. The Common Amp Format calculator (available from cfgroup.org or in the AudioTools iOS app from Studio Six Digital) is useful for determining output voltage from either the source or amplifier.

A receiver with a max output of 4 VRMS is tested with a sine wave with 3 dB crest factor. What happens when real content is used? A movie can have a crest factor of 22 dB. The calculator only goes to a crest factor of 18 dB. At 18 dB, the voltage drops to 0.6 VRMS.



If the person with that receiver/amp combination has a 1000 watt amp with a 1.4 VRMS sensitivity, and they really want 1000 watts, then they either need to increase their output voltage with a different receiver or they need an amp with over 5000 watts. A 5007 watt amp with 1.4 VRMS sensitivity and 0.6 VRMS actual input voltage puts out 1000 watts.

Crest factor not only affects the source component's voltage, but also the amplifier's output voltage. If an amplifier outputs 993 watts with a sine wave, the same amplifier will only output 19.8 watts with actual content that has a crest factor of 18 dB.



All that has changed is crest factor of the content. One can see that for movies with their high crest factor, one needs much more power on hand than for playing sine waves in order to have the same average listening volume.

The calculator I posted pictures of is actually an older version. The new version lets one also use the maximum voltage capability of a speaker and known crest factor of content to determine the maximum amplifier power.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Source Crest Factor.gif
Views:	121
Size:	335.5 KB
ID:	1629729   Click image for larger version

Name:	3 dB crest factor watts to speaker.gif
Views:	121
Size:	337.1 KB
ID:	1629745  

High Impact AV
- ISF Level II Video Calibrator, THX-HAA Level III Audio Designer/Calibrator
- Colorimetry Research CR-250 Spectroradiometer & CR-100 Colorimeter
- Murideo Fresco SIX-G/SIX-A Generator/Analyzer (HDMI 2.x, HDR, UHD)
- ACO Pacific and Earthworks Class 1 microphones
desertdome is online now  
post #35709 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 10:36 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
The JTR speakers have a symmetrical waveguide so you can lay them sideways with no issue.

It would be best to have them at hear hieght if possible but if not maybe you can angle them up?

I am sure you could put them on the floor but I would angle them up towards your ears. It you are putting them on the floor until you get a screen then go for the 212 if you have room.
The 212HTR looks killer but is physically too big.

What about the 210? Curious that despite have 10" woofers, the 8" 228 goes lower. What is the advantage of going sealed with the 210 if the ported 228 is smaller and goes lower?

I should add that my listening distance will be about 7'.

DefTech ProCinema 1000 L/R/SL/SR
DefTech ProCinema 2000 C
DefTech Supercube III
Denon AVR790
Oppo PM-3
GIK bass traps and absorption

Last edited by sunPin; Yesterday at 10:39 AM.
sunPin is online now  
post #35710 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,949
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
The 212HTR looks killer but is physically too big.

What about the 210? Curious that despite have 10" woofers, the 8" 228 goes lower. What is the advantage of going sealed with the 210 if the ported 228 is smaller and goes lower?

I should add that my listening distance will be about 7'.
The 210RM is the matching center to the 210RT towers.
raynist is online now  
post #35711 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,008
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 589 Post(s)
Liked: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
So you have 215RT mains, 215RM for center, 210RT's for surrounds and Slanted 8's for Atmos plus 4 S2's? That is totally insanely bad ass.
No? I'm jus using the 4 S2's for stands only for the 4 210RT's lol.. The 215's is taking care most of the LFE these days..
rhed is offline  
post #35712 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 6,335
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Spoiler!

Much of what you wrote is correct but some is incorrect. Crest factor is a measure of average power vs peak power. If you have an amplifier with a sensitivity of 1V, a receiver or processor with a preamp output of 1.2V can drive that amp to Max power/clipping regardless of crest factor.

You are just doing the math backwards. A sine wave, white noise, or pink noise test signals are worse case scenarios in which there is not much dynamic range. Average preamp voltage will be much closer to 1V than high dynamic content. Real word signals like Blu-ray movies or concerts have a much lower average power due to the much greater dynamic range. The average preamp voltage will be much lower than that of the test signals. You don't need more preamp voltage for content with high dynamic range. 1V will still drive said amp into clipping.

So yes, you do need to take speakers sensitivity and amplifier power into account in regards to peak dynamic levels. No math needs to be done in regards to preamp voltages.

My apologies for this tangent. Further discussion likely belongs elsewhere.

Good reference/sticky:
Amplifier FAQ

Last edited by Marc Alexander; Yesterday at 10:26 PM.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #35713 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Any JTR owners in Austin, TX willing to do a demo? Would love to hear what JTRs can do! Will bring beer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DefTech ProCinema 1000 L/R/SL/SR
DefTech ProCinema 2000 C
DefTech Supercube III
Denon AVR790
Oppo PM-3
GIK bass traps and absorption
sunPin is online now  
post #35714 of 35715 Old Yesterday, 09:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
7channelfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Houston
Posts: 997
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 187
There are a couple over in Austin but I won't speak for them. But if you make it to the woodlands, let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Any JTR owners in Austin, TX willing to do a demo? Would love to hear what JTRs can do! Will bring beer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sunPin likes this.
7channelfreak is offline  
post #35715 of 35715 Old Today, 07:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,710
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1477 Post(s)
Liked: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
No? I'm jus using the 4 S2's for stands only for the 4 210RT's lol.. The 215's is taking care most of the LFE these days..
Expensive speaker stands and even when powered off they will act as bass resonators (passive radiators) so keep that in mind.

What xover are you using for the 210RT surrounds? You probably can't go full range but I would think as low as you can go would be best ... I heard them run full range at RMAF and they were impressive.

Opinions are not facts.
RMK! is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp , noesis



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off