Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1192 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35731 of 35751 Old Today, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Dual SVS SB-2000 after upgrading LCR. It's possible I might get a projector before I get the subs, but that will kind of depend on what I end up with for LCR. The Single 8 drops off after 80hz, so a sub upgrade might be more necessary immediately. That said, I already have a sub that I like, so I could stick with it until after I put the projector in.

Comments on that approach welcomed.
I would maybe look at other options for subs also. Those subs will not be able to attain the same output level as any of the JTR speakers.

Power Sound Audio subs would have much more output for about $200 more per sub (15S). Of course JTR subs (S1 or S2) would be the best match but they are quite a bit more expensive than SVS if you are looking at sealed subs.
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post #35732 of 35751 Old Today, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I would maybe look at other options for subs also. Those subs will not be able to attain the same output level as any of the JTR speakers.



If you are looking for something in the same price range, Power Sound Audio subs would have much more output. Of course JTR subs (S1 or S2) would be the best match but they are quite a bit more expensive than SVS if you are looking at sealed subs.


True but do you think I will need to approach JTR output in a 1400cu ft room? I listen at basically 95db peak myself, but with the family probably 90db peak. Anything more than that is to show off to guests. =D

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post #35733 of 35751 Old Today, 09:00 AM
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True but do you think I will need to approach JTR output in a 1400cu ft room? I listen at basically 95db peak myself, but with the family probably 90db peak. Anything more than that is to show off to guests. =D
Check my edited post above.

I would still go with something other than SVS in case you ever move and get a larger room.

I had on of those SVS subs and it was pretty weak.

You have a nice budget don't skimp on subs. 2 PSA 15s subs would be $1750 vs $1300 for the 2 SVS subs and probably have 3-4 times the output if needed.
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post #35734 of 35751 Old Today, 09:04 AM
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Check my edited post above.



I would still go with something other than SVS in case you ever move and get a larger room.



I had on of those SVS subs and it was pretty weak.



You have a nice budget don't skimp on subs. 2 PSA 15s subs would be $1750 vs $1300 for the 2 SVS subs and probably have 4 times the output of needed. N


Gotcha. The other thing is physical space. Would 12" PSA subs still have better output than the 12" SB-2000? The sealed SB-2000 are nice and small. I don't mind replacing subs if I move to a bigger room later.

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post #35735 of 35751 Old Today, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
True but do you think I will need to approach JTR output in a 1400cu ft room? I listen at basically 95db peak myself, but with the family probably 90db peak. Anything more than that is to show off to guests. =D
5 Single 8's and a pair of S1's. Great system at ALL listening levels and you can get a nice discount for a multi product buy.
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post #35736 of 35751 Old Today, 09:06 AM
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5 Single 8's and a pair of S1's. Great system at ALL listening levels and you can get a nice discount for a multi product buy.
I agree!
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post #35737 of 35751 Old Today, 09:08 AM
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Gotcha. The other thing is physical space. Would 12" PSA subs still have better output than the 12" SB-2000? The sealed SB-2000 are nice and small. I don't mind replacing subs if I move to a bigger room later.
PSA doesn't make a sub with a 12 inch woofer. They start at 15 inch subs. JTR has all 18 inch subs for home audio
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I forgot...what was your sub plan?
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I agree!
Lol 1400 cu ft room! Dual 18" would need to be converted into seats or come with a built-in mini fridge!

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post #35739 of 35751 Old Today, 09:15 AM
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Lol 1400 cu ft room! Dual 18" would need to be converted into seats or come with a built-in mini fridge!
They are much smaller than you would think.

They have a 21x18 inch foot print vs 14.2x15.4 for the SVS.
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I am looking at a possible upgrade path from the 212s with sensitivity of 101dB to the 215 RMs, with sensitivity of 95dB, ie, a 6dB difference.. some people have claimed that in reality it is more like a 10dB difference because the 212s could actually be under-rated by about 3dB or so...

Currently, I can easily drive the 212s with just my receiver with no issues and lots of headroom to spare.. I have even tested it with the FP10,000 amp and i can discern zero difference in either SQ or Volume... I mean, I can already play it at way above reference with just my receiver so using the dedicated amp is just wasting time...

Now the question is, can I power the 215 RMs like I power the 212s? With just the receiver and hit reference with room to spare or would I be disappointed with the sudden lost of power / sound and would require a much bigger external amp to get the volume back up? Have anyone tried powering the 215s with just a receive and be happy with the results?
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post #35741 of 35751 Old Today, 11:17 AM
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I am looking at a possible upgrade path from the 212s with sensitivity of 101dB to the 215 RMs, with sensitivity of 95dB, ie, a 6dB difference.. some people have claimed that in reality it is more like a 10dB difference because the 212s could actually be under-rated by about 3dB or so...

Currently, I can easily drive the 212s with just my receiver with no issues and lots of headroom to spare.. I have even tested it with the FP10,000 amp and i can discern zero difference in either SQ or Volume... I mean, I can already play it at way above reference with just my receiver so using the dedicated amp is just wasting time...

Now the question is, can I power the 215 RMs like I power the 212s? With just the receiver and hit reference with room to spare or would I be disappointed with the sudden lost of power / sound and would require a much bigger external amp to get the volume back up? Have anyone tried powering the 215s with just a receive and be happy with the results?
I ran my 215's with my avr for a little while when I first got them. It played just fine. Though, I didn't increase bass levels or try to hit reference. The most I went up to was at least -12 MLV. Other then that, it played jus fine.
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post #35742 of 35751 Old Today, 11:21 AM
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I ran my 215's with my avr for a little while when I first got them. It played just fine. Though, I didn't increase bass levels or try to hit reference. The most I went up to was at least -12 MLV. Other then that, it played jus fine.
This meant that it couldn't drive the speakers to reference then?
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post #35743 of 35751 Old Today, 11:48 AM
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True but do you think I will need to approach JTR output in a 1400cu ft room? I listen at basically 95db peak myself, but with the family probably 90db peak. Anything more than that is to show off to guests. =D
I am going to agree with the pushback here on the svs subs. Two 12's are going to easily get overrun by a few 228's and s8's. When it comes to subs, especially sealed, you always need more than you think. To get 95dB peaks with your mains means you need 105dB peaks if you run your subs dead flat. Not too many people I know of run their subs dead flat, and can boost the bass anywhere from 3 to 15dB hot to get things to "Sound right." Science seems to be on our side as the Fletcher Munson curves would explain why most people prefer a decent boost in the bass spectrum. The human ear is actually less sensitive in that frequency range, so a boost makes the sound "Sound" more flat than a truly flat FR.
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Official JTR speaker thread

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I am going to agree with the pushback here on the svs subs. Two 12's are going to easily get overrun by a few 228's and s8's. When it comes to subs, especially sealed, you always need more than you think. To get 95dB peaks with your mains means you need 105dB peaks if you run your subs dead flat. Not too many people I know of run their subs dead flat, and can boost the bass anywhere from 3 to 15dB hot to get things to "Sound right." Science seems to be on our side as the Fletcher Munson curves would explain why most people prefer a decent boost in the bass spectrum. The human ear is actually less sensitive in that frequency range, so a boost makes the sound "Sound" more flat than a truly flat FR.


Very interesting. What do you mean by "dead flat"? You mean at reference, which is +20db?


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post #35745 of 35751 Unread Today, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Dual SVS SB-2000 after upgrading LCR. It's possible I might get a projector before I get the subs, but that will kind of depend on what I end up with for LCR. The Single 8 drops off after 80hz, so a sub upgrade might be more necessary immediately. That said, I already have a sub that I like, so I could stick with it until after I put the projector in.

Comments on that approach welcomed.
Checkout Rythmik Audio subs if PSAs 15s are too big (~17x18x18). Rhythmik makes dual 8s, ported and sealed 12s, dual 12, and 15s. The Rythmik F12 and F12SE look great and should smoke the SVSs.

http://rythmikaudio.com/F12SE.html
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Very interesting. What do you mean by "dead flat"? You mean at reference, which is +20db?


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Flat Frequency response can be played back at any level spl wise up to the speaker's capability. You are essentially looking at a straight line from 10hz-20khz +/- a few dB. On the other hand, you have the Equal Loudness Contours and the Fletcher munson curve here:



Which these ^^^^^ Would tell the story of how our ears actually "Perceive" flat sound. If you just took this curve above and flattened it out, 8/10 people would think things would sound dull and thin, a common argument from many people who use Audyssey which attempts to do just that.
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Very interesting. What do you mean by "dead flat"? You mean at reference, which is +20db?


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Sorry, more on this, JBL has done extensive testing and found that slightly sloping (In room) response is much preferred to a dead flat freq. response. Their synthesis line and process shoots for a FR that looks like this:



I personally follow that same concept and find the sound to be extremely more pleasing that a flat FR.
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post #35748 of 35751 Unread Today, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Dual SVS SB-2000 after upgrading LCR. It's possible I might get a projector before I get the subs, but that will kind of depend on what I end up with for LCR. The Single 8 drops off after 80hz, so a sub upgrade might be more necessary immediately. That said, I already have a sub that I like, so I could stick with it until after I put the projector in.

Comments on that approach welcomed.
Gotcha. Many of the JTR speakers are designed to be used with subs, so you'd need to use something. The SVS subs can probably hold you over until you get a bigger room. The RT speakers are designed to be used with or without subs.

I haven't personally heard the S8s, but from what I've read, they really impressive for their size. If you are after extremely high fidelity, they probably fall short of the 3-way JTRs (HTRs and RTs.) This may not be noticeable for average content, but if you are after that last 5% of quality, it's something to consider.

On the other hand, the S8s are very practical, and their wide dispersion pattern is good for certain applications - not to mention lower cost.

The S8s are practical to wall mount and aim straight forward. The HTRs and RTs would need to be toed in. Not so practical for wall mounting, but they can be floor standing, inside the wall, or behind the screen. Keep in mind that floor standing HTRs and RTs can be placed against the wall and in corners with great results, thanks to the directivity control.

My instincts say that 210RTs tucked in the corners might be best, if the room can accommodate that.

Only you can say what your room can really accommodate. If it's S8s, and you use them with subs, that can work great.
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post #35749 of 35751 Unread Today, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Flat Frequency response can be played back at any level spl wise up to the speaker's capability. You are essentially looking at a straight line from 10hz-20khz +/- a few dB. On the other hand, you have the Equal Loudness Contours and the Fletcher munson curve here:







Which these ^^^^^ Would tell the story of how our ears actually "Perceive" flat sound. If you just took this curve above and flattened it out, 8/10 people would think things would sound dull and thin, a common argument from many people who use Audyssey which attempts to do just that.


Really interesting, thanks for sharing this. So basically you and others are saying that Audessey and other room correction algos will boost low bass to compensate for perceived loss of SPL in that region, and that the sub will need to be able to keep up with that boost should mains peak at 95db?


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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Checkout Rythmik Audio subs if PSAs 15s are too big (~17x18x18). Rhythmik makes dual 8s, ported and sealed 12s, dual 12, and 15s. The Rythmik F12 and F12SE look great and should smoke the SVSs.

http://rythmikaudio.com/F12SE.html


The Rhythmik is about $300 more than the 12" SVS. Is that for the headroom? Also, I heard that Rhythmiks don't have a circuit to protect the woofer from bottoming out. That ever a problem? I don't know that I will ever play loud enough for that to be a benefit but...

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The Rhythmik is about $300 more than the 12" SVS. Is that for the headroom? Also, I heard that Rhythmiks don't have a circuit to protect the woofer from bottoming out. That ever a problem? I don't know that I will ever play loud enough for that to be a benefit but...
Rythmiks have limiters. They are defeatable to get that last few %, kind of like turning off traction control. I wouldn't recommend disabling them. Also, limiters don't protect you 100%. They are tuned for a balance between output and protection.
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