Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1201 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36001 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 12:00 PM
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JTR Speakers Inc is all signed up for Axpona Audio Expo 2017. We will be in LaSalle Ballroom B in between Emotiva and Seaton Sound. JTR Speakers will have seven Noesis 215RT speakers for a 7.0 system. All LFE will be routed to all seven Noesis 215RT with 2,000 watts going to each. More information coming soon.
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post #36002 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers Inc is all signed up for Axpona Audio Expo 2017. We will be in LaSalle Ballroom B in between Emotiva and Seaton Sound. JTR Speakers will have seven Noesis 215RT speakers for a 7.0 system. All LFE will be routed to all seven Noesis 215RT with 2,000 watts going to each. More information coming soon.
Wow!!!!!!

It will look like Stonehenge!!
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post #36003 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers Inc is all signed up for Axpona Audio Expo 2017. We will be in LaSalle Ballroom B in between Emotiva and Seaton Sound. JTR Speakers will have seven Noesis 215RT speakers for a 7.0 system. All LFE will be routed to all seven Noesis 215RT with 2,000 watts going to each. More information coming soon.
I think that is a wonderful decision to put you and @Mark Seaton beside each other. Just wonderful. Lol.
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post #36004 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Wow!!!!!!

It will look like Stonehenge!!
Noesis 215RT= 126db at 20hz/1m/peak + 16db for seven of them. I'm going to get into so much trouble.
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post #36005 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Noesis 215RT= 126db at 20hz/1m/peak + 16db for seven of them. I'm going to get into so much trouble.
That is going to be amazing for sure
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post #36006 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I like to specify systems that are capable of playing Blu-ray concerts at actual concert level. This requires peaks into the 130 dB's and lots of power.
At the speaker or at the listening position?
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post #36007 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Noesis 215RT= 126db at 20hz/1m/peak + 16db for seven of them. I'm going to get into so much trouble.
How big is the room?
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post #36008 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers Inc is all signed up for Axpona Audio Expo 2017. We will be in LaSalle Ballroom B in between Emotiva and Seaton Sound. JTR Speakers will have seven Noesis 215RT speakers for a 7.0 system. All LFE will be routed to all seven Noesis 215RT with 2,000 watts going to each. More information coming soon.
That is a heck of a lot of firepower. I hope they will invite you back after a weekend of that.
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post #36009 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
At the speaker or at the listening position?
Listening position
At RMAF 2015 (210RT's and Cap 1400's) I recorded peak SPL in excess of 130 dB behind the listening position and quite off axis to the surrounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
How big is the room?
The room is 30' x 59' x 13'
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post #36010 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers Inc is all signed up for Axpona Audio Expo 2017. We will be in LaSalle Ballroom B in between Emotiva and Seaton Sound. JTR Speakers will have seven Noesis 215RT speakers for a 7.0 system. All LFE will be routed to all seven Noesis 215RT with 2,000 watts going to each. More information coming soon.
I was going to suggest this for the Dec party, but then I thought I was going to be acting silly =)


So just for the record - has any customer actually done this yet?
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post #36011 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 06:04 PM
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Crest vs. Lab Gruppen

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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Recommended for the 212HTR's:
Lab Gruppen FP10000Q, Crest CC5500, or QSC PL380 - these all require a 30 amp circuit
It just so happens that I own 2 Crest CC5500 amplifiers that I won't be using once my new amps come in. I have been utilizing them to power my DIY Othorns, but I just went overboard and purchased 2 more Speakerpower SP2-12000 amps after adding 6 more Othorns to my set-up, so the Crests will need to find a new use or home.
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post #36012 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 06:17 PM
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Why ask why?

I listen to short bass clips, usually lasting less than 30 seconds each. When I play my favorite scenes from Underworld Awakening, The Haunting, etc., I want to enjoy great bass with as clean of output from my speakers as I can get.

I have assembled 12 subs and purchased amplifiers that could potentially take the system to 150 db if I so wish, so I am entertaining options for how best to have my speakers keep up with multiple subs that are coupling. Essentially, you are looking at a 25 db hot bass scenario, so surround speakers and even ceiling/atmos speakers need to be able to produce around 125 db at 1.5-2 meters. Mains need to be able to produce 125 db at 3.5 meters.

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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
My question is why would you need to plan for a 134db peak?
134db in the mid/high frequencies would cause permanent hearing damage in a matter of seconds. I would instead set a target of how loud could you realistically listen to and plan accordingly. It will likely require a fairly limited amount of amplifier power with the 212HTR which is a 101db sensitive speaker.
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post #36013 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Wow!!!!!!

It will look like Stonehenge!!
Noesis 215RT= 126db at 20hz/1m/peak + 16db for seven of them. I'm going to get into so much trouble.
Yes you are. RMAF last year X 7 number of complaints.
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post #36014 of 36578 Old 10-18-2016, 11:25 PM
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Seven 215RT's running full range ... I like it!
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post #36015 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Noesis 215RT= 126db at 20hz/1m/peak + 16db for seven of them. I'm going to get into so much trouble.
I am there!!

On a side note, I have had a really bad hum in my theater. I found it to be the cable tv. I found the problem by just simply unscrewing the coaxial cable from the cable box and the hum/buzz all but shut off. It was still there, but nothing like it was plugged into the cable box, but even unscrewed, it was still pretty bad. I seen a cable guy out front today and told him what was going on and he came over and grounded it, not to mention he cleaned it all up. He put everything in a box, looks nice and clean now. There is a very, very low hum on the subs now, I can hear it, but not like It was. I was using cheater plugs in the time being and had zero noise with the cheaters. Going out in a bit to install the Dsonic. When I went to switch the Emotiva for the Dsonic, it was impossible because of the hum/buzz. I don't know why but there was no buzz with the Emotiva, but yet the DSonic had a severe buzz?

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post #36016 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I am there!!

On a side note, I have had a really bad hum in my theater. I found it to be the cable tv. I found the problem by just simply unscrewing the coaxial cable from the cable box and the hum/buzz all but shut off. It was still there, but nothing like it was plugged into the cable box, but even unscrewed, it was still pretty bad. I seen a cable guy out front today and told him what was going on and he came over and grounded it, not to mention he cleaned it all up. He put everything in a box, looks nice and clean now. There is a very, very low hum on the subs now, I can hear it, but not like It was. I was using cheater plugs in the time being and had zero noise with the cheaters. Going out in a bit to install the Dsonic. When I went to switch the Emotiva for the Dsonic, it was impossible because of the hum/buzz. I don't know why but there was no buzz with the Emotiva, but yet the DSonic had a severe buzz?
Just put a D-sonic (3X1500wpc) into service and no hum so I'm thinking it isn't the amp.

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post #36017 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 07:18 PM
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A HUGE thank you to RMK! who invited me to his home to demo his theater for me this afternoon per my request as I am considering upgrading my current speakers (Definitive Technology) to JTRs. What an experience! This was my first time for me ever hearing JTRs, and it did not disappoint. It was so impressive, but words cannot give it the justice that it deserves. He started by showing me his setup and moving right into some Atmos demo material and trailers. It was so lifelike and the bass shook my entire body. I even asked if he had transducers in the seats as his three 215s really moved the room. We watched a few scenes from Cloverfield. The destruction/chaos scenes blew me away with felt debris falling all around. Net we watched a couple of short clips from Michael Jackson's: This Is It and it gave the impression that MJ was right there signing in front of us. Then we switched to some BB King and Jeff Beck in 2 Channel music. If I closed my eyes during the 2 channel experience, it seemed as if I was sitting directly in front of the stag during a live performance with instruments recognizable from separate locations. Simply AMAZING! We ended up watching a scene from The Art of Flight where he pushed to ~+15. What was so amazing was that the 215s, and the rest of the JTRs in his setup, didn't even break a sweat or appeared to breath heavy. It was like they kept smiling as he pushed them, indicating that there was no upper end. I have a feeling that our ears would give out well before the JTRs would. During my time with RMK! demonstrating to me what a stellar theater can do, I found that I could not remove the permanent ear-to-ear grin from my face. My cheeks even got painful near the end as I was so thrilled. Thank you again RMK!. I definitely see a JTR set in my future.
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post #36018 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Can you post pictures of your rerouted LFE in the BM tab? I did the same thing in my minidsp nano AVR and would like to compare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Ryan, you have to post how to run the LFE through the mains!

Hmm... I wonder if I should be selling my up front subs instead of the 215's. This would give me a lot more space up front and could put the 215's in the corners to the sides of the screen where the subs currently are. I can't just set my AVR to no subs, because I would still be using my near field sub.



Here is a comparison, 1 215 speakers compared to 1 SI HT 18 sub:




Obviously with 4 SI's stacked I'd get 12 more db's than seen above, so I do have more output at most frequencies from the SI's than I do the 215's but not a ton more and actually I get more at 20hz from the 215's than I do the subs. I know this is with a crazy powerful amp, but it's the same amp with the SI subs, so apples to apples right?


I'm all about trying stuff out, so a couple days ago I moved the 215's behind my screen, each sitting next to the stack of subs. I set my screen on top of the speakers I was using for rear surrounds, perfect height for wedging the screen between the speakers it is sitting on and the beam on the upper left side of my ceiling so this shows me perfectly what it would be like to move the screen up and have the 215's behind the screen.

The screen is just too close. It's now 9 feet from my eyes. 2:35:1 is 158 inches diagonal and 16:9 is 128 diagonal. Too close.

I ran Dirac and the sound is very good with the speakers behind the screen for movies. Watched Goosebumps last night with the family and I like it better this way with the mains not so wide. Need to do some listening for music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I'm liking it too. A lot cleaner look, although I'll have to tidy up the velvet under and above the screen.

Really? Not having an LFE channel didn't make a difference? That doesn't seem right.... maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying.

If I sold the up front sub stacks I'd want the LFE to go to the mains for sure, otherwise it would only go to my nearfield sub. Obviously my mains would get all the bass meant for the L and R speakers, along with the re-directed bass below the crossover to all other speakers, but no LFE channel at all.

I also want to try to run the LFE to the mains with all 9 subs just because I'm curious. I don't run my mains large for movies because the exact same signal wouldn't be going to the mains as it would the subs, however, if I can get the LFE to go to the subs then it would be just like having 11 subs instead of 9. Not that it would add much if anything to the db level (I'm more than fine on how much headroom for bass I have as is), but it might allow an even smoother response because of 2 more "sub" positions in the room. Maybe it wouldn't be an improvement, but I'm curious and have always wanted to try it.

So, that's why I'm very curious how @Ryansboston is routing the LFE to the mains with the 88BM.
Here's a few screenshots (attached images), I know it shows DiracLive is off but in my current setting it is on...



Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
As you know, with no subs and running the LCR 215's full range (large), the LFE is automatically routed to the LCR's by the SSP/AVR. Once you attach a cable to your LFE output the SSP/AVR will automatically send the LFE to that output. You need a mixer to be able to mix the LFE signal into the full range mains as well as subs if you have both. I assume the 88 has mixing capability as well as BM.

I did this with a Rane RPM 88, JRiver and recently the Motu but found little or no difference vs just running the LCR as large with no separate subwoofers. The limitation of the full range config is you have no independent adjustment of the LFE levels e.g. no bass management.
Sorry RMK but I have to disagree... with the 88BM plugin, setting a high pass filter and boosting just the LFE channel makes a world of difference! It is the difference between great bass coming from the 215s and heart-pounding, punch-in-the-gut blissful BASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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post #36019 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers Inc is all signed up for Axpona Audio Expo 2017. We will be in LaSalle Ballroom B in between Emotiva and Seaton Sound. JTR Speakers will have seven Noesis 215RT speakers for a 7.0 system. All LFE will be routed to all seven Noesis 215RT with 2,000 watts going to each. More information coming soon.
I think I need to plan a trip now

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post #36020 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
Here's a few screenshots (attached images), I know it shows DiracLive is off but in my current setting it is on...





Sorry RMK but I have to disagree... with the 88BM plugin, setting a high pass filter and boosting just the LFE channel makes a world of difference! It is the difference between great bass coming from the 215s and heart-pounding, punch-in-the-gut blissful BASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Thanks!

Do you have a picture of the LFE Mgmt tab?
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post #36021 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Thanks!

Do you have a picture of the LFE Mgmt tab?

Ask, and you shall receive....
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post #36022 of 36578 Old 10-19-2016, 09:46 PM
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Ask, and you shall receive....
Thanks.

In the routing tab, do you notice a difference if you turn off the LFE on the bottom row?
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post #36023 of 36578 Old 10-20-2016, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
A HUGE thank you to RMK! who invited me to his home to demo his theater for me this afternoon per my request as I am considering upgrading my current speakers (Definitive Technology) to JTRs. What an experience! This was my first time for me ever hearing JTRs, and it did not disappoint. It was so impressive, but words cannot give it the justice that it deserves. He started by showing me his setup and moving right into some Atmos demo material and trailers. It was so lifelike and the bass shook my entire body. I even asked if he had transducers in the seats as his three 215s really moved the room. We watched a few scenes from Cloverfield. The destruction/chaos scenes blew me away with felt debris falling all around. Net we watched a couple of short clips from Michael Jackson's: This Is It and it gave the impression that MJ was right there signing in front of us. Then we switched to some BB King and Jeff Beck in 2 Channel music. If I closed my eyes during the 2 channel experience, it seemed as if I was sitting directly in front of the stag during a live performance with instruments recognizable from separate locations. Simply AMAZING! We ended up watching a scene from The Art of Flight where he pushed to ~+15. What was so amazing was that the 215s, and the rest of the JTRs in his setup, didn't even break a sweat or appeared to breath heavy. It was like they kept smiling as he pushed them, indicating that there was no upper end. I have a feeling that our ears would give out well before the JTRs would. During my time with RMK! demonstrating to me what a stellar theater can do, I found that I could not remove the permanent ear-to-ear grin from my face. My cheeks even got painful near the end as I was so thrilled. Thank you again RMK!. I definitely see a JTR set in my future.
Thanks Brian, it was good meeting you and I'm glad you enjoyed the system. I'm getting better at the demo thing by not starting the demos off with the Art of Flight-Deadmau5 Ghost'n Stuff-(Nero Remix) at plus 15db ref. Best to save that for last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
Here's a few screenshots (attached images), I know it shows DiracLive is off but in my current setting it is on...

Sorry RMK but I have to disagree... with the 88BM plugin, setting a high pass filter and boosting just the LFE channel makes a world of difference! It is the difference between great bass coming from the 215s and heart-pounding, punch-in-the-gut blissful BASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Interesting Ryan, thanks for screen shots and the interface looks pretty straight forward. But with an 11 channel Atmos setup, the 8 channel limit, another AD conversion in the chain plus all of those damn Euroblock to XLR cables to buy/build make it a non-starter.

How much are you boosting the LFE? The reason I'm asking is the bass in my room at the LP is 6-7db hot native with no boost.

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Last edited by RMK!; 10-21-2016 at 08:22 AM.
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post #36024 of 36578 Old 10-20-2016, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
Here's a few screenshots (attached images), I know it shows DiracLive is off but in my current setting it is on...





Sorry RMK but I have to disagree... with the 88BM plugin, setting a high pass filter and boosting just the LFE channel makes a world of difference! It is the difference between great bass coming from the 215s and heart-pounding, punch-in-the-gut blissful BASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Very cool Ryan, I'm going to hopefully try it out today.

So, this sends the LFE to the subs AND the mains at the same time right? Hmmm at 20 hz I could be seeing a 3 db or more increase because the dual 215's have a bit more output at 20 hz than all of my subs combined. Interesting... very interesting...may have to put a sale on hold if this pans out because I'm a big fan of 15-30 hz in my room, and 3 db's higher is significant in that region in my experience.
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post #36025 of 36578 Old 10-20-2016, 09:42 AM
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That is assuming I don't get massive cancellations around the port tune of the 215's when trying to combine them with my sealed subs.
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post #36026 of 36578 Old 10-20-2016, 09:54 AM
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Ryan, I think I understand. To get LFE to BOTH subs and main speakers then this LPF tab for the L and R main speakers needs to look something like this:

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post #36027 of 36578 Old 10-20-2016, 11:19 AM
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Success!! I put in the WOW disk and the LFE signal goes to both, I can toggle the mute on each speaker and all the subs individually.

Cool. Now to hook up the omnimic and see if I can get the speakers and subs to play well together.
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post #36028 of 36578 Old 10-21-2016, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Success!! I put in the WOW disk and the LFE signal goes to both, I can toggle the mute on each speaker and all the subs individually.

Cool. Now to hook up the omnimic and see if I can get the speakers and subs to play well together.
Carp, does your AVR have LFE+Main? I know both my Denon's have that feature which routes the LFE to the mains. When I shut off my subs, set speakers to large and set LFE+Mains, I get LFE. I don't use any other source of EQ right now other than the graphic EQ in the AVR. I also use Audy but I bypass L&R. As I said I am crossed with subs for movies as I pretty much only watch movies. I am very happy with simple tweaking and running it how it is. I will say that I pulled my hair out for awhile that the subs were just not giving me the bass I knew they were capable of giving me. Sure enough I never switched off LFE+Mains to LFE only. It was like Christmas day when I ran a test. It is the easiest things that get you.

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post #36029 of 36578 Old 10-21-2016, 09:58 AM
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Carp, does your AVR have LFE+Main? I know both my Denon's have that feature which routes the LFE to the mains. When I shut off my subs, set speakers to large and set LFE+Mains, I get LFE. I don't use any other source of EQ right now other than the graphic EQ in the AVR. I also use Audy but I bypass L&R. As I said I am crossed with subs for movies as I pretty much only watch movies. I am very happy with simple tweaking and running it how it is. I will say that I pulled my hair out for awhile that the subs were just not giving me the bass I knew they were capable of giving me. Sure enough I never switched off LFE+Mains. It was like Christmas day when I ran a test. It is the easiest things that get you.
So do you currently have the LFE+Mains switched on or off?

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post #36030 of 36578 Old 10-21-2016, 10:01 AM
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So do you currently have the LFE+Mains switched on or off?
Off!! That is what meant to say. When I set up the subs I could clearly hear that I was not getting the bass they are capable of. When I switched it to just LFE the subs kicked in. I fixed it, sorry bout that.
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