Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1208 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #36211 of 36217 Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
What is the difference between 212 HT, and 212 HTR? (it's a $700 price jump!)

How do either of the 212 models compare to the 210 RT?


Edit:
212 HT = $1599 ea
212 HTR= $2299 ea
210 RT = $2299 ea
The 212 HT is 2 way and the 212HTR is 3 way with a better compression driver for the high-end. This translates into better sound quality over all.
The sound quality between the 210RT and 212HTR should be pretty comparable on the high-end, but the 210RT's low end is much better.

The 212HTR was designed to be run with powerful sub for home theater as a result you really need subs for (some) 2 channel music. The 212HTR has the highest output level of any JTR speaker.
The 210RT is near full range speaker which can to music very well w/o subs - and we are talking bass pumping music too. Has a bit less output but reaches much deeper than the 212's. When Jeff released the 210RT it quickly became a crowd favorite among alot of us. Nice size, crazy good output.

If you don't have a large room the 228HT and 228HTR are great choices as well, but again need a pretty competent sub to keep up (Like the 212's). By going to these you are really trading cost for max volume/watt (212HT/R) and bass extension (vs. 210RT), your not really loosing much sound quality (if any).

Also I would think about where you are using them. If you are doing this in your living room home theater with a TV, anything bigger than the 228 needs a good amount of space for the center, and even the 228 isn't small.

If you are not listening at anywhere near reference all of these speakers would be easily powered by an AVR.
If you are at reference level and about 12' from the speakers then the AVR would need to be a pretty beefy one (120+ watts/channel) for full dynamics with the 210RT, but would work. Just slightly closer or slightly below reference would be easy for most AVR's. In the same conditions the 228 or 212 would be powered easily by under 100 watts.

But for the record, if you *like* listening to music I would get the 210RT's as many have said. You could get LRC and not need subs right away.
If you are really going for best home theater and can spend 1-2k on a good sub (or two) then the 212's are a good option.

If you call Jeff and explain your situation (room layout, etc) he's very willing to help you make a choice about whats good for you.
He actually tried to help me save money by avoiding overkill for my room, but I was shooting for overkill. =)

Oh an yea - Take THXMAN up on his offer... for sure.
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Last edited by theblackangus; Yesterday at 06:38 PM.
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post #36212 of 36217 Old Yesterday, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
A question for you JTR guys....


after owning JTR speakers for a while, do you get bored with them?

Do they just become a "new normal" for you, that you take them for granted while watching movies? Or... are they so amazing on a level where they "wow" you every time you get to listen to them?
Never. I'm not exaggerating either. I am utterly satisfied on so many different levels every time I listen to my setup...and even without fine tuning further by a more knowledgeable person than me. Each session I hear something unique that I know I would miss and never experience with many other products. I do get frustrated though because I have so much to do still with the room itself, and I know that is distracting and holding back the quality of what I hear. The dynamics is where a lot of the magic happens though...and you can never get bored of that.
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post #36213 of 36217 Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Awesome. I think the 210s are almost the same exact size too, as the RF 7. I was pleased with that size, but I just wanted better quality, and better bass.


So what is the huge deal with high db efficiency then? I don't care about playing at ear-bleeding levels anyway.... does having super high efficiency help with other factors that I'm not aware of?

(The RF-7iis I had played well beyond my comfort level on a standard Denon recever at about 50% volume. I live in a tract house in Texas, and you could hear the music from the street in front of my house. )

Right now, I'd lean towards getting the 2 main speakers + a nice AV receiver to start with. I'm leaning towards either the 210 RTs, or the 212 HTRs for my L&R speakers. The sub will have to wait a while, due to funds.... as will a center channel... so the main 2 speakers would have to be sufficient for movies and music for probably a year. This probably makes a difference in your recommendations.
If you plan to run without sub(s), that narrows the choices to 210RTs or 215RTs.
I agree that the 210RTs sound like the best choice for you.
For the center, you would want a 210RM or a 3rd 210RT, depending placement issues.

Last edited by rcohen; Yesterday at 10:08 PM.
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post #36214 of 36217 Old Yesterday, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
If you have yet to hear how effective dynamic speakers are in a HT environment, you are welcome to demo my Alcons.



I love the room, especially the seating. What brand, model are your seats?
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post #36215 of 36217 Old Yesterday, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post
I love the room, especially the seating. What brand, model are your seats?
Thank you.

Seating -Tactical/Motion Effects (MFX)
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post #36216 of 36217 Old Today, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Of course you are correct about the efficiency advantage of the 212's but having heard the 210RT's they are a great choice for a reasonable sized, full range music speaker. IMO, they need dedicated subwoofer support for movies but even that might not be necessary for someone who isn't as bass hungry as many here seem to be. If I were putting together a system in a common living space (e.g. living room, family room) the 210RT would be my speaker choice.
I am sure RMK is correct. He is the reason I got into JTR to begin with...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I would choose the 210RT every time if you have amps to power them. I noticed no difference in dynamics. I don't think you would unless you are listening at over 120db.
Given that in real tests, the 212s are rated by data-base to be actually 105dB vs the 95dB of the 210s, you'll need 8 times the amplifier power to get to the same SPLs... I would think that at listening position, say 10-12 feet away, the 210s will not be able to get to reference without an external amp whereas the 212s will easily go there and more with just a receiver... Now, of course this all depends on application.. if one were sitting much closer, have a smaller room, and have great need to always listen to 2 channel music, then the 210s might be the route to go.. but for someone more into HT, have a big room, the 212s can't be beat for sound quality and efficiency and easy of setup (without additional amps).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
What is the difference between 212 HT, and 212 HTR? (it's a $700 price jump!)

How do either of the 212 models compare to the 210 RT?


Edit:
212 HT = $1599 ea
212 HTR= $2299 ea
210 RT = $2299 ea
The HTR has a better Compression driver and is actually a 3-way design.. if you want absolutely the smoothest voices, go for the HTR.. this is the new version of the one I have... The HT is basically a cheaper version of the HTR... I haven't heard the HT yet... I have auditioned literally dozens and dozens of commercial speakers, some costing 10x more than the HTRs and I have yet to find one I like better... I do not know why, but there's a magic to 'female vocals' on the 212s.. i have a feeling that it's because of the compression driver that goes down to 380hz (covering most of the female vocal cord)... But I could be wrong here... but whenever I hear these speakers with female vocals, I get chills... i never get this with any other speakers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Are you saying the 210 RTs are difficult to power? They are listed at 95db efficiency.

Just wondering, because i couldn't really afford to start with more power than just a single AV receiver.

Edit: how much difference does the 95db efficiency of the 210 matter compared to the 101db efficiency of the 212 HTR?
Although the 212s are listed as 101dB, they are actually 105dB (measured by data-base), and you'll need 8 times the power or wattage to get the 210s to the same volume...

For example, to get the 210s to 120dB, you'll need 250 watts of power (no receiver can give you that much per channel, all channel driven, you'll need extra expensive external amps)... To get to 120dB, the 212s only need a measly 32 watts... almost any receiver can get it there...

But as RMK says, it all depends on your application... if you're already going to get a subwoofer, and if your main priority isn't 2 channel music listening, then i see no reason why the 212s wouldn't be a better option.. of course, it's all subjective...

Last edited by coolgeek; Today at 02:52 AM.
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post #36217 of 36217 Old Today, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
For example, to get the 210s to 120dB, you'll need 250 watts of power (no receiver can give you that much per channel, all channel driven, you'll need extra expensive external amps)... To get to 120dB, the 212s only need a measly 32 watts... almost any receiver can get it there...

But as RMK says, it all depends on your application... if you're already going to get a subwoofer, and if your main priority isn't 2 channel music listening, then i see no reason why the 212s wouldn't be a better option.. of course, it's all subjective...
120db is way over reference tho.
If my understanding is correct 105db is the max needed for reference (a couple db headroom on that could be desired =))
So really about 160 watts max at 12 ft for dynamic peaks for the 210RT's which is a bit shy of the AVR range.
However at 104db only 127 watts would be needed which is in the range of some AVR's.
And at 103DB only 101 watts are needed so well with-in many AVR's.
So very close to reference peaks w/o any issue on an AVR.

That said, I would think about getting a nice amp for the 210RT's as a later purchase item. The inuke 6k can be had for less then 400$ and power both 210's to max with headroom for the amp. And you can get the DSP model to fool around with the sound if that is your thing =)
Then you can run them to max power w/o worry of clipping from the amp.
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