Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1216 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 8692Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #36451 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 06:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Construction begins today for my new theater build. It will be a 29L x 18W x 10H dedicated 11.2 space above my garage. I'm planning to outfit with JTR 212 for L/C/R and S8's for surround duty (not sure yet on which I'll use for atmos).

Could I get some candid feedback on the sub front? I have ~$6K budgeted for subs, so here are my options...

1) I already have one Seaton SubM. For about $5,600 I can add 3 more, giving me 4 SubM's.

2) Dual JTR S2's for ~$6K

3) Dual JTR 4000's

My initial leaning is towards SubM simply because I already have one and won't have to deal with trying to sell it. Plus, I'm assuming that 4 SubM's would provider greater / cleaner output than dual JTR's.

Any thoughts?
obleo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #36452 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 06:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
ahmedreda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked: 279
That is a fairly large space. It will be difficult for you to realize single digit output which is the primary advantage of going sealed. Ported would work much better IMO so my recommendation would be dual 4000ULF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Construction begins today for my new theater build. It will be a 29L x 18W x 10H dedicated 11.2 space above my garage. I'm planning to outfit with JTR 212 for L/C/R and S8's for surround duty (not sure yet on which I'll use for atmos).

Could I get some candid feedback on the sub front? I have ~$6K budgeted for subs, so here are my options...

1) I already have one Seaton SubM. For about $5,600 I can add 3 more, giving me 4 SubM's.

2) Dual JTR S2's for ~$6K

3) Dual JTR 4000's

My initial leaning is towards SubM simply because I already have one and won't have to deal with trying to sell it. Plus, I'm assuming that 4 SubM's would provider greater / cleaner output than dual JTR's.

Any thoughts?

My home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 10 Sealed UXL-18, 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
Display: JVC RS400

Last edited by ahmedreda; 01-09-2017 at 06:36 AM.
ahmedreda is online now  
post #36453 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 06:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 3,754
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1574 Post(s)
Liked: 1550
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Construction begins today for my new theater build. It will be a 29L x 18W x 10H dedicated 11.2 space above my garage. I'm planning to outfit with JTR 212 for L/C/R and S8's for surround duty (not sure yet on which I'll use for atmos).

Could I get some candid feedback on the sub front? I have ~$6K budgeted for subs, so here are my options...

1) I already have one Seaton SubM. For about $5,600 I can add 3 more, giving me 4 SubM's.

2) Dual JTR S2's for ~$6K

3) Dual JTR 4000's

My initial leaning is towards SubM simply because I already have one and won't have to deal with trying to sell it. Plus, I'm assuming that 4 SubM's would provider greater / cleaner output than dual JTR's.

Any thoughts?
If you have the room go dual 4000's and never look back.

Use the sub m in a different room or sell it.

I would have 4 4000's in my setup if they would fit.
RMK! likes this.
raynist is offline  
 
post #36454 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 06:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Construction begins today for my new theater build. It will be a 29L x 18W x 10H dedicated 11.2 space above my garage. I'm planning to outfit with JTR 212 for L/C/R and S8's for surround duty (not sure yet on which I'll use for atmos).

Could I get some candid feedback on the sub front? I have ~$6K budgeted for subs, so here are my options...

1) I already have one Seaton SubM. For about $5,600 I can add 3 more, giving me 4 SubM's.

2) Dual JTR S2's for ~$6K

3) Dual JTR 4000's

My initial leaning is towards SubM simply because I already have one and won't have to deal with trying to sell it. Plus, I'm assuming that 4 SubM's would provider greater / cleaner output than dual JTR's.

Any thoughts?
I like option #1 , if you can place 4 subs in corners.
4 subs in corners gives you great output and seat to seat consistency.

All of these options are top-notch subs.
I wouldn't lose sleep over matching brands with subs.
4x subMs match in the ways that matter.
If you wanted center wall placement due to room layout issues, then it would be a tougher decision which way to go.

The 212HTRs are amazing. You are in for a treat if you haven't heard them.
The S8s should be awesome as surrounds.

Last edited by rcohen; 01-09-2017 at 06:51 AM.
rcohen is offline  
post #36455 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 07:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asoofi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NoVA
Posts: 1,722
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Liked: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Construction begins today for my new theater build. It will be a 29L x 18W x 10H dedicated 11.2 space above my garage. I'm planning to outfit with JTR 212 for L/C/R and S8's for surround duty (not sure yet on which I'll use for atmos).

Could I get some candid feedback on the sub front? I have ~$6K budgeted for subs, so here are my options...

1) I already have one Seaton SubM. For about $5,600 I can add 3 more, giving me 4 SubM's.

2) Dual JTR S2's for ~$6K

3) Dual JTR 4000's

My initial leaning is towards SubM simply because I already have one and won't have to deal with trying to sell it. Plus, I'm assuming that 4 SubM's would provider greater / cleaner output than dual JTR's.

Any thoughts?
Everything else is good, but I would do dual 4000...you won't need anymore subs for sure.
RMK! likes this.
asoofi1 is offline  
post #36456 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 07:37 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Thanks for the replies everyone, greatly appreciate it. So, I'm guessing I can sell the SubM for $1K which would take the cost of dual 4000's to ~$5.4K. Since I already have one SubM, adding the additional 3 would be ~$5.6K. Whichever the solution, all subs will need to go behind the AT screen wall.

Since these have to be behind the AT wall and cost is a wash, it sounds like JTR 4000's are the way to go.
obleo is offline  
post #36457 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 09:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1698 Post(s)
Liked: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone, greatly appreciate it. So, I'm guessing I can sell the SubM for $1K which would take the cost of dual 4000's to ~$5.4K. Since I already have one SubM, adding the additional 3 would be ~$5.6K. Whichever the solution, all subs will need to go behind the AT screen wall.

Since these have to be behind the AT wall and cost is a wash, it sounds like JTR 4000's are the way to go.
Yep ...

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
RMK! is offline  
post #36458 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 01:06 PM
Member
 
appleseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I ordered (2) 118's. Still need a T8 or T12 or.... to complete the surround set. In the interim, I have been thinking about the room treatments and whatnot. Regardless if I get any, it would seem I'd still benefit from some form of room eq. So I've been mulling options over.

Keep the 3313 and get a miniDSP.

Get a newer receiver or preamp with XT32

Get an Anthem of some iteration with their version of REQ.

Save my money and get an Arcam 550?...............<--edited to ad this.

IF.. it matters. I got a good deal on a Sherwood Newcastle A 965 that I can put to use. Otherwise if I just get a new receiver, I'll probably give it to my father.

Any thoughts on these options?

WTB JTR Speakers and etc.

Dogs love me cuz I'm crazy sniffable

Last edited by appleseed; 01-09-2017 at 01:28 PM.
appleseed is offline  
post #36459 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 09:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone, greatly appreciate it. So, I'm guessing I can sell the SubM for $1K which would take the cost of dual 4000's to ~$5.4K. Since I already have one SubM, adding the additional 3 would be ~$5.6K. Whichever the solution, all subs will need to go behind the AT screen wall.

Since these have to be behind the AT wall and cost is a wash, it sounds like JTR 4000's are the way to go.
It's usually MUCH better to have subs on opposite sides of the room. If you have a closed rectangular room, you can use the REW room simulator to give a good guess of nulls and frequency response. The nulls are the main concern, since the rest can be corrected with EQ.

IMO, it would be worth revising the plans around good sub placement, but everyone has different priorities.
rcohen is offline  
post #36460 of 37932 Old 01-09-2017, 09:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleseed View Post
I ordered (2) 118's. Still need a T8 or T12 or.... to complete the surround set. In the interim, I have been thinking about the room treatments and whatnot. Regardless if I get any, it would seem I'd still benefit from some form of room eq. So I've been mulling options over.

Keep the 3313 and get a miniDSP.

Get a newer receiver or preamp with XT32

Get an Anthem of some iteration with their version of REQ.

Save my money and get an Arcam 550?...............<--edited to ad this.

IF.. it matters. I got a good deal on a Sherwood Newcastle A 965 that I can put to use. Otherwise if I just get a new receiver, I'll probably give it to my father.

Any thoughts on these options?

WTB JTR Speakers and etc.
I'm a big fan of Dirac. If you have a PC and a calibrated mic, you can test the PC version for free.
http://www.dirac.com/online-store

If you have external amplification the Arcam 390 looks like a good value for an Atmos receiver with Dirac.
Some people have been running into trouble with the new Arcams, though, so you might want to wait to see if they get fixed.

For non-Atmos, there is the XMC-1.

I am using JRiver + Dirac for PC, plus an older XT32 surround preamp. This is great sounding and cost effective for non-atoms, but there's no way to get Dirac for PC to work with Atmos. Also, this doesn't support Dirac for other sources.

Outside of Dirac, some sort of EQ for bass frequencies is a must for hifi sound, IMO.
XT32 can do a pretty good job. The biggest thing it lacks is the ability to dial in a custom frequency response curve for your room and taste.

Some people use pure JRiver, since it has extremely flexible DSP.
rcohen is offline  
post #36461 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 08:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 3,534
Mentioned: 223 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1335 Post(s)
Liked: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone, greatly appreciate it. So, I'm guessing I can sell the SubM for $1K which would take the cost of dual 4000's to ~$5.4K. Since I already have one SubM, adding the additional 3 would be ~$5.6K. Whichever the solution, all subs will need to go behind the AT screen wall.

Since these have to be behind the AT wall and cost is a wash, it sounds like JTR 4000's are the way to go.
In the past month I've heard dual 4000ULF's, dual Orbit Shifter LFU's, and dual S2's. These vary in size so placement options become a consideration. Since you have an 18' wide room, and the 212HTR is 16.5" wide, you can place 4000ULF's with their backs to the center 212HTR and the front of the sub will be at about the 1/4 point of the width of the room. Since they fit, go for the 4000ULF's!

You are really going to like the 212HTR's and S8's. Should be an incredible theater!

High Impact AV
- ISF Level II Video Calibrator, THX-HAA Level III Audio Designer/Calibrator
desertdome is offline  
post #36462 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 09:33 AM
Member
 
appleseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I'm a big fan of Dirac. If you have a PC and a calibrated mic, you can test the PC version for free.
http://www.dirac.com/online-store

If you have external amplification the Arcam 390 looks like a good value for an Atmos receiver with Dirac.
Some people have been running into trouble with the new Arcams, though, so you might want to wait to see if they get fixed.

For non-Atmos, there is the XMC-1.

I am using JRiver + Dirac for PC, plus an older XT32 surround preamp. This is great sounding and cost effective for non-atoms, but there's no way to get Dirac for PC to work with Atmos. Also, this doesn't support Dirac for other sources.

Outside of Dirac, some sort of EQ for bass frequencies is a must for hifi sound, IMO.
XT32 can do a pretty good job. The biggest thing it lacks is the ability to dial in a custom frequency response curve for your room and taste.

Some people use pure JRiver, since it has extremely flexible DSP.
Thank you. On the PC side of things. My local walmart had an ASUS T100TA-C2-GR that I picked up to resell, but maybe it'd be worth it to keep for this purpose?
https://www.asus.com/us/2-in-1-PCs/A...pecifications/

Atmos seems like it'd be great but I'm going to wait on that for now I think. Not sure how best to implement it in my room anyway.

In my want ad, I have a couple of miniDSP options I'm asking for. I will add a receiver with XT32 as an option also.

Dogs love me cuz I'm crazy sniffable
appleseed is offline  
post #36463 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 09:40 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 12,702
Mentioned: 292 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4158 Post(s)
Liked: 3515
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Outside of Dirac, some sort of EQ for bass frequencies is a must for hifi sound, IMO.
XT32 can do a pretty good job. The biggest thing it lacks is the ability to dial in a custom frequency response curve for your room and taste.

Some people use pure JRiver, since it has extremely flexible DSP.
In the event you didn't already know, the new audyssey app will allow for target curve manipulation, as well as limiting of correction similar to dirac. The app has not been released yet but I am waiting VERY impatiently to test it out when it does release later this month or next.... It will be available for late 2016 and on models of D&M. No update planned for earlier models that can still use audyssey pro.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is offline  
post #36464 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
In the event you didn't already know, the new audyssey app will allow for target curve manipulation, as well as limiting of correction similar to dirac. The app has not been released yet but I am waiting VERY impatiently to test it out when it does release later this month or next.... It will be available for late 2016 and on models of D&M. No update planned for earlier models that can still use audyssey pro.
Sounds promising. Took them long enough!
Where can I find more info?
rcohen is offline  
post #36465 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 12:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleseed View Post
Thank you. On the PC side of things. My local walmart had an ASUS T100TA-C2-GR that I picked up to resell, but maybe it'd be worth it to keep for this purpose?
https://www.asus.com/us/2-in-1-PCs/A...pecifications/

Atmos seems like it'd be great but I'm going to wait on that for now I think. Not sure how best to implement it in my room anyway.

In my want ad, I have a couple of miniDSP options I'm asking for. I will add a receiver with XT32 as an option also.
You can use pretty much any TV with JRiver. They also have a free trial. For something near your PC, the main concern is that you get something quiet.

My main HTPC is running JRiver and Plex server (free version), and I have Rokus in the rest of the house. I finally cancelled traditional cable for Playstation Vue via Roku. For the HTPC, I have a Thecus N5550 in my closet via iSCSI, which the HTPC boots of an SSD.
rcohen is offline  
post #36466 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 12:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1698 Post(s)
Liked: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Sounds promising. Took them long enough!
Where can I find more info?
Tarot cards?
beastaudio likes this.

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
RMK! is offline  
post #36467 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 01:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 12,702
Mentioned: 292 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4158 Post(s)
Liked: 3515
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Sounds promising. Took them long enough!
Where can I find more info?
That's all that we know basically atm. It will be $20 in de app stoah ("the app store" in ahnold.)
jlpowell84 likes this.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
beastaudio is offline  
post #36468 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 05:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
It's usually MUCH better to have subs on opposite sides of the room. If you have a closed rectangular room, you can use the REW room simulator to give a good guess of nulls and frequency response. The nulls are the main concern, since the rest can be corrected with EQ.

IMO, it would be worth revising the plans around good sub placement, but everyone has different priorities.
Thanks for the feedback. Subs in the corners is a possibility, but would take a hit in the WAF. For about the same $$ I can do dual JTR 4000's up front or 4 SubM's in each of the corners. Would one really be that much of an improvement over the other? If not, I lean towards the simplicity and WAF of the JTR. But, if it would make a big improvement, I can do SubM's in the 4 corners.
obleo is offline  
post #36469 of 37932 Old 01-10-2017, 06:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Thanks for the feedback. Subs in the corners is a possibility, but would take a hit in the WAF. For about the same $$ I can do dual JTR 4000's up front or 4 SubM's in each of the corners. Would one really be that much of an improvement over the other? If not, I lean towards the simplicity and WAF of the JTR. But, if it would make a big improvement, I can do SubM's in the 4 corners.
It's different in every room, but yes, this difference can be huge, depending on the room.

If you have a closed rectangular room, the free REW room simulator can give a pretty accurate estimate for sub layouts and counts. The main concerns are minimizing nulls and maximizing output, since peaks can be EQed out. Make sure to turn on time alignment. This doesn't require a microphone to use the simulator. It's actually fun...try this right now!
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

The trouble with all the subs on one side of a closed room is that you usually end up with bad nulls. You want a sub on the opposite side to cancel out the nulls. There's a lot you can read on sub placement, but here are some to try in the simulator (in no particular order):

1) Nearfield can work great when the room can accommodate it. This is an exception, where the sub is close enough for the direct sound to overpower the reflections.

2) 2 subs on the center of the opposing walls (preferably opposite the room's longer axis).

3) 2 subs on opposite corners.

4) 4 subs in 4 corners.

5) 4 subs at 1/4 3/4 positions on opposite walls (preferably opposite the room's longer axis).

Paper on placing multiple subs:
https://www.harman.com/sites/default...s/multsubs.pdf

Last edited by rcohen; 01-10-2017 at 06:06 PM.
rcohen is offline  
post #36470 of 37932 Old 01-11-2017, 01:11 PM
Member
 
DRC3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Got to visit JTR's Production Facility

Had business up in Milwaukee and dropped by to see Jeff's new digs.

I was with a couple of coworkers, but Jeff was kind enough to show us around and briefly test drove the dual Cap 4000 ULF's. He decided to play Bass I Love You and everything on the floor within 20 was literally blown away from the air movement. Just an amazing amount of output. The entire building was shaking and this is a big warehouse, LOL. He must have very understanding neighbors.

Jordan and Michael, my colleagues, not being familiar with anything but Sonos or HTIB stuff were stunned. They couldn't stop talking about the intensity. Definitely a fun time.

Thanks Jeff!
carp, desertdome, dlbeck and 4 others like this.
DRC3 is offline  
post #36471 of 37932 Old 01-11-2017, 01:16 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Mike_WI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,992
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC3 View Post
Had business up in Milwaukee and dropped by to see Jeff's new digs.

I was with a couple of coworkers, but Jeff was kind enough to show us around and briefly test drove the dual Cap 4000 ULF's. He decided to play Bass I Love You and everything on the floor within 20 was literally blown away from the air movement. Just an amazing amount of output. The entire building was shaking and this is a big warehouse, LOL. He must have very understanding neighbors.

Jordan and Michael, my colleagues, not being familiar with anything but Sonos or HTIB stuff were stunned. They couldn't stop talking about the intensity. Definitely a fun time.

Thanks Jeff!
I used to work in Racine, WI.
I wish I knew about them then.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & output x1 cards} - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
Mike_WI is offline  
post #36472 of 37932 Old 01-11-2017, 02:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
bambam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 878
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC3 View Post
Had business up in Milwaukee and dropped by to see Jeff's new digs.

I was with a couple of coworkers, but Jeff was kind enough to show us around and briefly test drove the dual Cap 4000 ULF's. He decided to play Bass I Love You and everything on the floor within 20 was literally blown away from the air movement. Just an amazing amount of output. The entire building was shaking and this is a big warehouse, LOL. He must have very understanding neighbors.

Jordan and Michael, my colleagues, not being familiar with anything but Sonos or HTIB stuff were stunned. They couldn't stop talking about the intensity. Definitely a fun time.

Thanks Jeff!
Very cool. I hope to do the same in the near future. Did you just align the tour with Jeff prior to your arrival?
bambam is offline  
post #36473 of 37932 Old 01-11-2017, 03:02 PM
Member
 
DRC3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam View Post
Very cool. I hope to do the same in the near future. Did you just align the tour with Jeff prior to your arrival?
Yeah- I called a couple of days in advance and asked to drop by...Next time, a movie in the front office/theater would be in order.
Jeff Permanian likes this.
DRC3 is offline  
post #36474 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 09:40 AM
Member
 
appleseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I have a strange curiosity that someone may be able to explain to me. Up until recently I've only been using a 3313CI receiver to power my speakers. With the Deftech's I had, in direct mode, they sounded ok. But with audyssey it was better. After getting the T12's, in direct mode they sound very good. I have not re-run the audyssey settings so its still set to the Deftech's. Just for curiosities sake I tried it with the T12's and even though it seemed like the stereo imaging was wider it was not to my liking as far as sound. To be expected I suppose. So, I've just been using direct for now thinking that I have no reason to use audyssey until I finish getting the rest of the surround system together, since it sounds so good already. Don't mess with a good thing right? However, now I have a separate amp and things have changed. Using the Denon as a preamp and a Sherwood Newcastle A-965 for the amp, I've notice the sound is not the same. Not bad, just not the same. Again in direct mode, the sound is now no longer as pleasing to listen to. It's hard to explain since I do not know what terminology I should use to convey to someone what I'm experiencing. I'll do my best. The imaging now seems off, not as expansive, like someone just stood in front of the speakers. Stereo to Mono is what it also reminds me of but still have stereo separation. Now what really seems weird is if I go back to the audyssey setting meant for the Deftech's things get much much better. In fact, so much improved that its better than it was in direct without the amp. This setting was un-listenable straight from the receiver but now its enjoyable with the amp? I'm not understanding why there is such a difference to be honest. I got the amp thinking I would benefit from a dedicated power amp and possibly have more control and better dynamics in movies and music. Also would be necessary if I wanted to add a miniDSP 88 in the future. I honestly did not expect the sound to change much if at all. But I was wrong. Could someone be so kind as to explain what is the reason for this. In layman's terms. lol

Recap.....
A) receiver in direct mode with T12's = great.

B) receiver with audyssey for Deftech's but with T12's instead = not good. Obviously.

C) receiver in direct mode but with separate amp and T12's = not terrible, just not as good as (A)

D) receiver with audyssey for Deftech's but with separate amp and T12's = sounds great, actually better than (A)


BTW still looking for a T8 WTB JTR Speakers and etc.

Dogs love me cuz I'm crazy sniffable
appleseed is offline  
post #36475 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1698 Post(s)
Liked: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleseed View Post
I have a strange curiosity that someone may be able to explain to me. Up until recently I've only been using a 3313CI receiver to power my speakers. With the Deftech's I had, in direct mode, they sounded ok. But with audyssey it was better. After getting the T12's, in direct mode they sound very good. I have not re-run the audyssey settings so its still set to the Deftech's. Just for curiosities sake I tried it with the T12's and even though it seemed like the stereo imaging was wider it was not to my liking as far as sound. To be expected I suppose. So, I've just been using direct for now thinking that I have no reason to use audyssey until I finish getting the rest of the surround system together, since it sounds so good already. Don't mess with a good thing right? However, now I have a separate amp and things have changed. Using the Denon as a preamp and a Sherwood Newcastle A-965 for the amp, I've notice the sound is not the same. Not bad, just not the same. Again in direct mode, the sound is now no longer as pleasing to listen to. It's hard to explain since I do not know what terminology I should use to convey to someone what I'm experiencing. I'll do my best. The imaging now seems off, not as expansive, like someone just stood in front of the speakers. Stereo to Mono is what it also reminds me of but still have stereo separation. Now what really seems weird is if I go back to the audyssey setting meant for the Deftech's things get much much better. In fact, so much improved that its better than it was in direct without the amp. This setting was un-listenable straight from the receiver but now its enjoyable with the amp? I'm not understanding why there is such a difference to be honest. I got the amp thinking I would benefit from a dedicated power amp and possibly have more control and better dynamics in movies and music. Also would be necessary if I wanted to add a miniDSP 88 in the future. I honestly did not expect the sound to change much if at all. But I was wrong. Could someone be so kind as to explain what is the reason for this. In layman's terms. lol

Recap.....
A) receiver in direct mode with T12's = great.

B) receiver with audyssey for Deftech's but with T12's instead = not good. Obviously.

C) receiver in direct mode but with separate amp and T12's = not terrible, just not as good as (A)

D) receiver with audyssey for Deftech's but with separate amp and T12's = sounds great, actually better than (A)


BTW still looking for a T8 WTB JTR Speakers and etc.
You need to re-run Audyssey with the T12's. Then try direct mode vs Audyssey. Many of us who use Audyssey have run it many times with different results being the norm rather than the exception. It only takes a few minutes and practice makes it easier (if not perfect).

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
RMK! is offline  
post #36476 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 10:09 AM
Member
 
appleseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
You need to re-run Audyssey with the T12's. Then try direct mode vs Audyssey. Many of us who use Audyssey have run it many times with different results being the norm rather than the exception. It only takes a few minutes and practice makes it easier (if not perfect).
I'm going to definitely, but why such a difference in direct mode with receiver + T12 ...VS...receiver + amp + T12? Just curious why it sounds better without the amp in the chain.

Dogs love me cuz I'm crazy sniffable
appleseed is offline  
post #36477 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1698 Post(s)
Liked: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleseed View Post
I'm going to definitely, but why such a difference in direct mode with receiver + T12 ...VS...receiver + amp + T12? Just curious why it sounds better without the amp in the chain.
It shouldn't sound different unless the amp or connection cables are are introducing distortion noise. If anything, the amp should add head room but with the T12's very high efficiency, they should be plenty loud with the AVR.

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
RMK! is offline  
post #36478 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 11:45 AM
Member
 
appleseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
It shouldn't sound different unless the amp or connection cables are are introducing distortion noise. If anything, the amp should add head room but with the T12's very high efficiency, they should be plenty loud with the AVR.
I guess that's why it's intriguing me. I did not expect there to be a difference, better or worse, just more head room as you put it. The cables I'm using are older but a short run of only 3ft so I wouldn't think that'd make much of an impact, but I may try different cables if I can find some somewhere.

Dogs love me cuz I'm crazy sniffable
appleseed is offline  
post #36479 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 01:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,274
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1401 Post(s)
Liked: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleseed View Post
I have a strange curiosity that someone may be able to explain to me. Up until recently I've only been using a 3313CI receiver to power my speakers. With the Deftech's I had, in direct mode, they sounded ok. But with audyssey it was better. After getting the T12's, in direct mode they sound very good. I have not re-run the audyssey settings so its still set to the Deftech's. Just for curiosities sake I tried it with the T12's and even though it seemed like the stereo imaging was wider it was not to my liking as far as sound. To be expected I suppose. So, I've just been using direct for now thinking that I have no reason to use audyssey until I finish getting the rest of the surround system together, since it sounds so good already. Don't mess with a good thing right? However, now I have a separate amp and things have changed. Using the Denon as a preamp and a Sherwood Newcastle A-965 for the amp, I've notice the sound is not the same. Not bad, just not the same. Again in direct mode, the sound is now no longer as pleasing to listen to. It's hard to explain since I do not know what terminology I should use to convey to someone what I'm experiencing. I'll do my best. The imaging now seems off, not as expansive, like someone just stood in front of the speakers. Stereo to Mono is what it also reminds me of but still have stereo separation. Now what really seems weird is if I go back to the audyssey setting meant for the Deftech's things get much much better. In fact, so much improved that its better than it was in direct without the amp. This setting was un-listenable straight from the receiver but now its enjoyable with the amp? I'm not understanding why there is such a difference to be honest. I got the amp thinking I would benefit from a dedicated power amp and possibly have more control and better dynamics in movies and music. Also would be necessary if I wanted to add a miniDSP 88 in the future. I honestly did not expect the sound to change much if at all. But I was wrong. Could someone be so kind as to explain what is the reason for this. In layman's terms. lol

Recap.....
A) receiver in direct mode with T12's = great.

B) receiver with audyssey for Deftech's but with T12's instead = not good. Obviously.

C) receiver in direct mode but with separate amp and T12's = not terrible, just not as good as (A)

D) receiver with audyssey for Deftech's but with separate amp and T12's = sounds great, actually better than (A)


BTW still looking for a T8 WTB JTR Speakers and etc.
It's really easy to end up chasing your tail if you aren't using measurements to help make these types of comparisons.

If you don't already have it, pick up a $20 boom mic stand and a calibrated mic, like a UMIK-1, and take some measurements with REW.

As was said, with Audyssey, it's important to remeasure with any equipment or layout change.
Also, make sure you have silence during the measurements (air conditioning, pool equipment, etc.)

Once you have REW figured out, you can take a measurement in under a minute.
It's much faster than doing an Audyssey calibration.
rcohen is offline  
post #36480 of 37932 Old 01-15-2017, 02:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,887
Mentioned: 159 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3114 Post(s)
Liked: 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleseed View Post
I'm going to definitely, but why such a difference in direct mode with receiver + T12 ...VS...receiver + amp + T12? Just curious why it sounds better without the amp in the chain.
Just wandered in here, but sounds to me like a phase problem. Check all of your wiring and double check the amp is not doing a phase inversion on one of the channels. Or, just switch + and - on one of the speakers and see if that fixes it.
Gooddoc is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp , noesis

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off