Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1219 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36541 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by phastm3 View Post
I have 228Ht setup at my house in Baltimore County. You're welcome to have a listen
Thank you Phastm3! I pulled the trigger already on Revel speakers with a JTR sub. Hopefully everything comes in February .

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post #36542 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 08:32 AM
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Is there a JTR Atmos package?
Ceiling mount speakers?

Mike

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post #36543 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
Is there a JTR Atmos package?
Ceiling mount speakers?

Mike
Many use the single 8lp low profile or the slanted single 8lp.
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post #36544 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
Is there a JTR Atmos package?
Ceiling mount speakers?

Mike
I'm using Slanted 8-LPs high on the walls.
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post #36545 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by booms1ra View Post
Hi All!

I am brand new to AVS Forum and just beginning to setup my HT after many years of renting I finally have pulled the trigger on purchasing a house. The first real addition to HT was building of a 8 inch platform to accomidate second row seating as the entire finished portion of the basement is rather narrow and long. With the help of my brother we were able to complete it a few weekends ago. Much of my current setup is hand me downs from generous family members. I currently am running mostly all klipsch stuff, KG 5.5 L/R, RSW-15 subwoofer and klipsch surrounds. Before upgrading to a dedicated amp I have began my search of larger L/R and eventually a center channel. After trying some B&W 703's and quickly returning to my old klipsch's i new whatever speaker i purchased going forward would have to be horn driven. After talking with some well versed people in the community it was beginning to be easy to see that JTR was easily the most competitve setup, especially at the price which unfortunately is fairly important in my case.

So 2 questions for the group. First off what does everyone recommend for an entry level JTR left/right? Are there older generations of JTR's that could serve me just as well as a new one? Second, after going down the rabbit whole of so many threads on here, I must admit i have only gone back 10 or so pages here, that being said, is there anyone out there looking to sell their JTR's. Based on everything else i have read on the speakers i am not exactly sure why anyone would, but figured i would throw it out there? I am located in Des Moines IA, so not that far from Jeff/JTR.

Thanks again for any and all help!
Don't forget to treat that room!
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post #36546 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

If you want the ultimate imaging, consider getting 3 identical vertical speakers with an AT screen.
If a vertical center isn't practical for you and you can sit in the sweet spot, you might find you prefer a phantom center over a horizontal center. The center speaker is mainly for people who aren't sitting in the sweet spot, or if you don't have a symmetrical room. (I do, and I used a laser to help aim the LRs, which helps.)
Hi rcohen,

What do you mean by phantom center?Only Left and right without center if sitting in the sweet spot?
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post #36547 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sherr127 View Post
Hi rcohen,

What do you mean by phantom center?Only Left and right without center if sitting in the sweet spot?
Great imaging mainly happens when your left and right ears hear exactly the same thing.
If your room, speaker placement, speaker angles, and listening position are all symmetrical, the illusion can be 100%.
Without that kind of symmetry, good EQ and time alignment can help get closer.
You notice it the most with stereo content that's panned in the middle.

Anyway, if you have perfect imaging, a phantom center (no center) can actually give you superior results to a horizontal center below the screen. Horizontal centers are coming from the wrong location, and their off-axis response is often problematic and always different than vertical LRs.

On the other hand, if you don't have a symmetrical setup, or you care about off-axis seats, the center channel helps a ton with imaging. For off-axis seats, the center channel can dramatically improve dialog clarity. I'd definitely recommend a center channel for most cases. With a horizontal center, sometimes I actually prefer a phantom center, though.

Unless there are serious budget constraints, I'd say get the center, even if it's horizontal. Then, perhaps experiment with phantom mode for solo listening sessions, and turn phantom off when you have company.

And if you have a lots of flexibility, check out AT screens for 3 identical vertical LCRs.
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post #36548 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sherr127 View Post
Hi rcohen,

What do you mean by phantom center?Only Left and right without center if sitting in the sweet spot?
More details:
http://www.seymourav.com/centerbestpractice.asp

The 3-way JTRs would be less prone to lobing problems with horizontal orientation. In either case, 3x vertical speakers at the same height is ideal, when possible.
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post #36549 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
More details:
http://www.seymourav.com/centerbestpractice.asp

The 3-way JTRs would be less prone to lobing problems with horizontal orientation. In either case, 3x vertical speakers at the same height is ideal, when possible.
Thanks rcohen for the useful explanation.I know AT screen is the best method but due to room size constraint, i have to stick with normal fix screen for now.

How about place the center vertically below screen ? Is it better than horizontal?
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post #36550 of 37682 Old 02-05-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sherr127 View Post
Thanks rcohen for the useful explanation.I know AT screen is the best method but due to room size constraint, i have to stick with normal fix screen for now.

How about place the center vertical below screen ? Is it better than horizontal?
That's what most people do, which is totally reasonable.
Much better horizontal, since the mid-tweeter would be closer in height to the LR mid-tweeter.
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post #36551 of 37682 Old 02-07-2017, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Click on the link skylinestar posted just above your post, duh.
I have the last set of T12 LP's Jeff made. My Anthem 710 has done wonders in my room compared to Xt32. However the bit of news about setting the speaker at 60 and adjusting the tone controls has me curious. Unfortunately the graph I saw doesn't really tell you were the tone control was to get it at 100hz that was suggested. Unless my phone isn't showing the graph properly. Most likely I just don't understand what I'm seeing. With the increments of three Batpig mentioned it looks like zero or the default position was around 100?
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post #36552 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron5 View Post
I have the last set of T12 LP's Jeff made. My Anthem 710 has done wonders in my room compared to Xt32. However the bit of news about setting the speaker at 60 and adjusting the tone controls has me curious. Unfortunately the graph I saw doesn't really tell you were the tone control was to get it at 100hz that was suggested. Unless my phone isn't showing the graph properly. Most likely I just don't understand what I'm seeing. With the increments of three Batpig mentioned it looks like zero or the default position was around 100?
Your phone must not be doing it right then. It should be very clear to see that adjusting the bass tone control definitely affects from about 60hz all the way up to 1khz, where the treble tone control takes over from there.

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post #36553 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Your phone must not be doing it right then. It should be very clear to see that adjusting the bass tone control definitely affects from about 60hz all the way up to 1khz, where the treble tone control takes over from there.
I see what was being said now. Yeah, I can see the obvious difference with bass tone controls. I was looking for the actual position or db boost the tone control was at to get a baseline/guesstimate of my tone controls. I don't have a room analyzer to see where I'm at while adjusting.

Thanks for taking the time to respond as now I see it was a duh question. Just looking for something that wasn't there.
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post #36554 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I'm using Slanted 8-LPs high on the walls.
How well does that work, since the speakers are still located on the walls and not the ceiling? I am sure it is much more attractive than having low-profile 8's all of the ceiling
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post #36555 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by acommonsoul View Post
How well does that work, since the speakers are still located on the walls and not the ceiling? I am sure it is much more attractive than having low-profile 8's all of the ceiling
They seem to work great. I really enjoy having an all JTR set up. Here are a few pics..
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post #36556 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
They seem to work great. I really enjoy having an all JTR set up. Here are a few pics..
Thanks they look great... Much better than hanging the slim 8s from the ceiling...

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post #36557 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I'm using Slanted 8-LPs high on the walls.
Also, are you using them as atmos speakers, height channels or surrounds?

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post #36558 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by acommonsoul View Post
Also, are you using them as atmos speakers, height channels or surrounds?
My current speaker setup (5.1.4) is three 228 HTRs for the front stage (elevated as bookshelves), Slanted 8HT-LPs for the rear surrounds (on-wall at eye/ear level) and front Atmos (on-wall as elevated as I could get them), and a Cap 1400. We have in-ceiling speakers (B&W I think) that were installed in the house when we purchased it and they are tasked with rear Atmos duty. They were previously used as surrounds, but are really too elevated and are placed well for rear Atmos. I have been toying with the idea of two more Slanted 8HT-LPs or Single 8HT-LPs to replace the in-cieling rear Atmos for 100% JTR , but maybe down the road. There could be better placement for all of the speakers, but this is the best that I can do with our room limitations. By the way, I did have WAF for the Cap 4000 and dearly wanted it, but couldn't make that monster fit. Jeff suggested that I take my chainsaw to our couch and shorten it for enough room. I thought about it for about 10 seconds, LOL. Our system pulls dual duty as our HT and 2.1 channel music listening. I really do love the system and enjoy the extreme level of detail more and more each time that I listen to it (mostly at moderate to low volume levels), which is almost every night. You cannot go wrong with JTR! Jeff is a true craftsman and a pleasure to support and do business with.

I am currently in the process of swapping/upgrading amplifiers and then a 4K Oppo UHD and 4K monitor will come later this year (hopefully). Damn this is an expensive hobby.

Does anyone have any experience with Parasound JC1s driving JTR speakers? If so, how did you like them (vs an A21)?
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post #36559 of 37682 Old 02-09-2017, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
Does anyone have any experience with Parasound JC1s driving JTR speakers? If so, how did you like them (vs an A21)?
I used to have JC1s and an A51.
The JC1s sounded slightly different than the A51 without room correction. Room correction completely cancelled out the differences (aside from power), so I sold the JC1s.

I'm currently running my A51 with JTR 212s, and I love that combination. Silky smooth sounding.
The extra power from JC1s would be pointless with 212s, but not with 215s.
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post #36560 of 37682 Old 02-11-2017, 10:11 AM
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Between everything else going on, I'm building a pair of Noesis 212HT to bring to Kansas City next week. I can't wait to get them in front of people and compare them to others.
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post #36561 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 10:19 AM
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This might sound a little silly but I was wondering if anyone has ever used some noesis 228s as surrounds?

The reason I ask is I might upgrade my fronts to some 12.2hps from funk audio. I didn't know if I would be better purchasing one more 228 and use them for surround or just sell the 228s and and buy something that ment for surround duty?

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post #36562 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
This might sound a little silly but I was wondering if anyone has ever used some noesis 228s as surrounds?

The reason I ask is I might upgrade my fronts to some 12.2hps from funk audio. I didn't know if I would be better purchasing one more 228 and use them for surround or just sell the 228s and and buy something that ment for surround duty?
What are the particulars on the funk speakers? I didn't see these on their site. The only pair I saw was a 6.1 which is a low efficiency speaker.
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post #36563 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 07:00 PM
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What are the particulars on the funk speakers? I didn't see these on their site. The only pair I saw was a 6.1 which is a low efficiency speaker.
Ya I know they are called the 12.2hp but they are not on the Web page as they were a custom order but the results were so good that Nathan wanted to keep the designe and add it to the Web page. Give me a bit and I can post the only specs I have here's a pic for nowAttachment 1963041

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post #36564 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 07:04 PM
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What are the particulars on the funk speakers? I didn't see these on their site. The only pair I saw was a 6.1 which is a low efficiency speaker.
Here's the only info I have for now. It's an email from nathan
Josh,

 

The 12.2HP’s are a great high output speaker, offering massive dynamics and output in the range needed most for movie affects, that is 80-800hz, with 105db/watt sensitivity in that range and 1000 watts from two channels for each speaker of the 6x500 amp included with them, driving a pair of high power 12” drivers in a front loaded horn, the maximum output is simply staggering. The distortion is also very low, and with the planar mid tweeter handling 800hz up, mounted “coaxially” with the horn mouth, it has very high sound quality, smooth yet powerful and accurate. The fully active crossover system in the included amplifier allows us to tune them for integration between the horn and tweeter unprecedented and impossible with passive designs. 

 

The overall distortion profile is very similar to the measurements for the 8.2P, but at much higher output levels. Frequency response is not quite as smooth as our other offerings but as you can see in the attached response it is +/- 3db over 200hz, and off axis response is well controlled up to 30 degrees off axis, and even at 45 degrees is not bad. Blue is on axis, yellow 15 degrees, pink 30 degrees and white 45 degrees.

 

These speakers like all our designs have very good imaging when setup correctly, looking at the pictures of your setup they should work very well there. When the imaging is good I personally feel that the phantom center sound better overall. The only time a center is better is if due to screen size etc the main speakers have to be too far apart to image correctly. The 228’s should work ok for surrounds, although I do not have personal experience with them so you could see if you can find someone who has tried them in that application, and or check with JTR. We do have some surround speakers available as well if your interested in a whole package, they are not too expensive and are deceptively compact, but they work amazingly well even in our 7000 cubic foot test area. They are $500 USD each.
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post #36565 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 09:12 PM
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Here's the only info I have for now. It's an email from nathan
Josh,

 

The 12.2HP’s are a great high output speaker, offering massive dynamics and output in the range needed most for movie affects, that is 80-800hz, with 105db/watt sensitivity in that range and 1000 watts from two channels for each speaker of the 6x500 amp included with them, driving a pair of high power 12” drivers in a front loaded horn, the maximum output is simply staggering. The distortion is also very low, and with the planar mid tweeter handling 800hz up, mounted “coaxially” with the horn mouth, it has very high sound quality, smooth yet powerful and accurate. The fully active crossover system in the included amplifier allows us to tune them for integration between the horn and tweeter unprecedented and impossible with passive designs. 

 

The overall distortion profile is very similar to the measurements for the 8.2P, but at much higher output levels. Frequency response is not quite as smooth as our other offerings but as you can see in the attached response it is +/- 3db over 200hz, and off axis response is well controlled up to 30 degrees off axis, and even at 45 degrees is not bad. Blue is on axis, yellow 15 degrees, pink 30 degrees and white 45 degrees.

 

These speakers like all our designs have very good imaging when setup correctly, looking at the pictures of your setup they should work very well there. When the imaging is good I personally feel that the phantom center sound better overall. The only time a center is better is if due to screen size etc the main speakers have to be too far apart to image correctly. The 228’s should work ok for surrounds, although I do not have personal experience with them so you could see if you can find someone who has tried them in that application, and or check with JTR. We do have some surround speakers available as well if your interested in a whole package, they are not too expensive and are deceptively compact, but they work amazingly well even in our 7000 cubic foot test area. They are $500 USD each.
What is the price on these? Sound beastly.
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post #36566 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 09:53 PM
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I'm working out the price right now. Looks like in the ballpark of 6500 for a pair.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
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Ascend acoustics cmt 340se side ss.
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post #36567 of 37682 Old 02-12-2017, 09:57 PM
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Nathan seems to think I will be okay going with a phantom center since they image so well and have such a large soundstage. So I think I will try just a pair for now, and buy a center if I feel the need

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s LCR
Ascend acoustics cmt 340se side ss.
ascend acoustics cbm170se rear ss
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post #36568 of 37682 Old 02-13-2017, 08:00 AM
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CONSIDERING UPGRADE:

I would like to upgrade my system with an acoustically transparent screen and get my front soundstage off the floor. I currently have a system I am quite happy with. I have the flagship full range Definitive BP 7000 SC's that are capable of handling up to 1000 watts and have a 91 db sensitivity. They just take up a lot of floor space and because they are large bi-polar towers that require a couple of feet of room behind them, they will not fit behind my hypothetical AT screen. I will have up to about 21" behind the screen to work with.

Considering switching over to JTR 212 HTR's LCR or JTR 215 RM's (not towers) LCR. My amplifier is a Sunfire TGA 7401 which can provide 400 watts into 8 ohms and 800 watts into 4 ohms. I also have quad Deepseasound Mariana 24" subs so no issues in that department . The option of running without subs for full range is nice. Would the Sunfire be enough to power the 215's full range? When compared to the 212 HTR, does the larger physical horn of the 215 make a difference with respect to soundstage and imaging? And finally, could I squeeze the 215's behind the AT screen? What is the minimum about of space I should have to fit these either model behind an AT screen? I see the dimensions on Jeff's website but I am also considering speaker binding posts and the actual speakers blowing the screen like a tornado. I do have a couple inches of flexibility with respect to depth.

Rationally, and from a space perspective the 212 HTR's would probably be fine from what I have seen on the threads. I just don't want to be second guessing and re-upgrading so I guess I am looking for excuses to just get the 215 monitors and be done. Really appreciate all of your insights. Thanks.
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post #36569 of 37682 Old 02-13-2017, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
CONSIDERING UPGRADE:

I would like to upgrade my system with an acoustically transparent screen and get my front soundstage off the floor. I currently have a system I am quite happy with. I have the flagship full range Definitive BP 7000 SC's that are capable of handling up to 1000 watts and have a 91 db sensitivity. They just take up a lot of floor space and because they are large bi-polar towers that require a couple of feet of room behind them, they will not fit behind my hypothetical AT screen. I will have up to about 21" behind the screen to work with.

Considering switching over to JTR 212 HTR's LCR or JTR 215 RM's (not towers) LCR. My amplifier is a Sunfire TGA 7401 which can provide 400 watts into 8 ohms and 800 watts into 4 ohms. I also have quad Deepseasound Mariana 24" subs so no issues in that department . The option of running without subs for full range is nice. Would the Sunfire be enough to power the 215's full range? When compared to the 212 HTR, does the larger physical horn of the 215 make a difference with respect to soundstage and imaging? And finally, could I squeeze the 215's behind the AT screen? What is the minimum about of space I should have to fit these either model behind an AT screen? I see the dimensions on Jeff's website but I am also considering speaker binding posts and the actual speakers blowing the screen like a tornado. I do have a couple inches of flexibility with respect to depth.

Rationally, and from a space perspective the 212 HTR's would probably be fine from what I have seen on the threads. I just don't want to be second guessing and re-upgrading so I guess I am looking for excuses to just get the 215 monitors and be done. Really appreciate all of your insights. Thanks.
Due to your already having very capable subwoofer(s), the 212HTR's seem like the best option. The 215RM's were designed for Center Channel duty and are I'm sure are very capable but I think you would benefit from the increased sensitivity of the 212HTR's. They will easily keep up with your subs and give you an amazing setup that I'd love to hear.

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post #36570 of 37682 Old 02-13-2017, 12:47 PM
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215 RM's

I have 215 RM's across the front and really like them. Jeff just made us some stands and they look great. I am sure that the 212's are great speakers, but the fuller range of the 215's did it for me, especially with music (think Floyd, DeadMau5, or or other bass heavy tracks).

As an added bonus, I also like being able to turn off my subs and let the 215's handle the bass (and I am running multiple subs like you). The 215 RM's sound great and they pound if needed.

My 2 cents....

Two very good choices, good luck!
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