Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1221 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36601 of 36623 Old 02-19-2017, 08:53 AM
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We're on day 3 of our KC home theater crawl. It's a marathon people. Today we are going to demo the new 212's (what's the model name? HD?) along with the 4000 sub.

February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl
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post #36602 of 36623 Old 02-19-2017, 09:12 AM
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The 4000 ULF was the most ridiculous amount of bass I have heard come out of a single enclosure under maybe 30 Hz. Hard to say exactly but it got pretty low. Can you say pressurization?

I'm sure there will be plenty of shenanigans to come today!


Really curious about the 212 HD. I did not even know about them until I helped Jeff unload them.

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post #36603 of 36623 Old 02-19-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
The 4000 ULF was the most ridiculous amount of bass I have heard come out of a single enclosure under maybe 30 Hz. Hard to say exactly but it got pretty low. Can you say pressurization?

I'm sure there will be plenty of shenanigans to come today!


Really curious about the 212 HD. I did not even know about they existed until I helped Jeff unload them.
Correction it is an updated 2 way version of the 212 HT and the price is tempting. Listening at this moment and I like what i hear. It seems like jeff has crafted another winner!
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post #36604 of 36623 Old Today, 09:35 AM
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For those of you that have actually listened to both the ht and htr,is there really a difference for the avarage set of ears?Im trying to decide if the $800 difference per speaker is going to get me more detail for a wider sound stage or I'll hear special effects better?There doesn't seem to be any comparison other than all jtr speakers sound amazing and ones a three way speaker.
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post #36605 of 36623 Old Today, 09:53 AM
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My options are 228HT or 228HTR x3 LCR,212HT LR with a 228HT or 228HTR for center.What do ya think?I could really use the extra money spent on the htr's for surrounds or sound treatment and I won't be doing any critical music listening.
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post #36606 of 36623 Old Today, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
My options are 228HT or 228HTR x3 LCR,212HT LR with a 228HT or 228HTR for center.What do ya think?I could really use the extra money spent on the htr's for surrounds or sound treatment and I won't be doing any critical music listening.
What crossover do you plan to use? That should help decide between 212 vs 228. The 212s also have more output. That would only be a factor for an unusually large room, though.

I prefer the 3-way over the 2-way, but I do critical music listening, and I obsess over subtle differences, so we have different priorities.
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post #36607 of 36623 Old Today, 11:09 AM
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Well I'll be running a 4000 ulf or a pair of smaller caps crossed anywhere from 80 to 120,my room is 2200 cubic feet.I guess if the three way speaker would help hear a gun reloading and the tinkle tinkle of bullet casing hitting the floor or a mouse scurrying in front of me it could be worth the extra money,but $2300 better? I don't have a way to hear these speakers side by side so I'm relying the experience of others on this forum.
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post #36608 of 36623 Old Today, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
Well I'll be running a 4000 ulf or a pair of smaller caps crossed anywhere from 80 to 120,my room is 2200 cubic feet.I guess if the three way speaker would help hear a gun reloading and the tinkle tinkle of bullet casing hitting the floor or a mouse scurrying in front of me it could be worth the extra money,but $2300 better? I don't have a way to hear these speakers side by side so I'm relying the experience of others on this forum.
Frankly, the level of extra detail and resolution (Jeff defined this as lower distortion) of the HTR's is significant for some and negligible for others. I'm in the latter camp. I would still have my Noesis 212's and Orbit Shifters were it not for the fact that I wanted a full range speaker (actually LCR's), run full range with no external subwoofers. For me, this approach is great for music and movies but comes at a price in terms of cost and physical size.

Bottom line is your room is on the small side and any of the speakers mentioned would allow you to hear the bullet casing hitting the floor/mouse scurrying with amazing detail and resolution ... IMHO

Opinions are not facts.

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post #36609 of 36623 Old Today, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
Well I'll be running a 4000 ulf or a pair of smaller caps crossed anywhere from 80 to 120,my room is 2200 cubic feet.I guess if the three way speaker would help hear a gun reloading and the tinkle tinkle of bullet casing hitting the floor or a mouse scurrying in front of me it could be worth the extra money,but $2300 better? I don't have a way to hear these speakers side by side so I'm relying the experience of others on this forum.
Jeff could say better than I which speakers would work best at what crossover. My guess is that the 212s would give better midbass at 80hz, but there would be less difference at 120hz.

It's hard to predict on the mouse and bullet casing. You'd certainly be able to hear that with all the speakers, but it's a tough question whether the 3-ways would render that more lifelike.

I think the main advantages of the 3-ways are that vocals aren't in the crossover (cleaner), more high frequency extension with a more ribbon-like character, and improved off-axis response. This stuff is mainly noticeable in critical music listening.

I didn't get a chance to hear the new 2-ways, and the gap may be closing. Also, of what I have heard, the differences in room and setup tend to at least as big as the differences between speakers.

Only you can say whether that's worth $2300 to you. It was for me, but the differences I mentioned are important to me.

If you plan to orient the center speaker horizontally, I think the 3-way advantage with off-axis response would have a bigger impact. Either way, it's better to match them than mix them.
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post #36610 of 36623 Old Today, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
Well I'll be running a 4000 ulf or a pair of smaller caps crossed anywhere from 80 to 120,my room is 2200 cubic feet.I guess if the three way speaker would help hear a gun reloading and the tinkle tinkle of bullet casing hitting the floor or a mouse scurrying in front of me it could be worth the extra money,but $2300 better? I don't have a way to hear these speakers side by side so I'm relying the experience of others on this forum.
If your located near me 71854, or anyone else for that mater, your more than welcome to come listen to my Triple 12's. Soon I will have 2 118's and another Triple 8 coming for a 5.2 in my living room. Not the best setup, but never the less should give you an idea perhaps. Any version of the 212's/228's should be better than the ones I have, but I have no idea by how much. I have not had the opportunity to listen to them myself. Someone who has owned both could tell you though.

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post #36611 of 36623 Old Today, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
My options are 228HT or 228HTR x3 LCR,212HT LR with a 228HT or 228HTR for center.What do ya think?I could really use the extra money spent on the htr's for surrounds or sound treatment and I won't be doing any critical music listening.
I was experiencing your same dilemma, and was also mostly concerned with HT application with music less so. This hobby is like a disease in that you can always wonder, what if. I decided to circumvent that thought and go for the 228HTRs over the 228Hts for LCR. I could not do a direct comparison, but am happy that I stretched for the three way design. I am extremely happy with them and have come to really enjoy them more and more for 2-Channel critical music listening.
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post #36612 of 36623 Old Today, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
The 4000 ULF was the most ridiculous amount of bass I have heard come out of a single enclosure under maybe 30 Hz. Hard to say exactly but it got pretty low. Can you say pressurization?

I'm sure there will be plenty of shenanigans to come today!


Really curious about the 212 HD. I did not even know about them until I helped Jeff unload them.
What an experience. I will agree and give the 4000ulf the stamp of approval. It was plain silly what that thing could do. Two would fit pretty well in the back of my HT and replace the rear bar....Just saying.
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post #36613 of 36623 Old Today, 03:10 PM
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What an experience. I will agree and give the 4000ulf the stamp of approval. It was plain silly what that thing could do. Two would fit pretty well in the back of my HT and replace the rear bar....Just saying.
What size room did you get to experience the 4000 in?Im torn between a single 4000 or duel 2400's for my 2200 cubic foot room 🤔
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post #36614 of 36623 Old Today, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
What size room did you get to experience the 4000 in?Im torn between a single 4000 or duel 2400's for my 2200 cubic foot room 🤔
It was in my room (well, actually we heard it in multiple rooms). Just took these pics, beer can on the sub for scale. My room is 23 feet deep, 17.5 feet wide, and 7 feet 9 inches tall.







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post #36615 of 36623 Old Today, 03:55 PM
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What size room did you get to experience the 4000 in?Im torn between a single 4000 or duel 2400's for my 2200 cubic foot room 🤔

To give you an idea, that one sub has about the same output down low and maybe a bit less higher up as all 8 of these subs in my room combined:






So, unless you are an over the top bass head and plan on getting a second 4000 someday and don't worry about possible damage to your house I would go with the 2 2400's. The foot print is a lot more room friendly compared to the 4000. Also, the bass will be a lot smoother throughout the room with 2 subs so I think that's an easy decision.
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post #36616 of 36623 Old Today, 04:26 PM
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The new 212 HT's sound fantastic guys. We had a setup problem for the GTG on Sunday which made them sound terrible IMO. Harsh, harsh, harsh. I couldn't stay in the room with them. Well, yesterday I hooked them straight up to my receiver and they sound GREAT so it sucks that all those guys heard a speaker that doesn't exist, and they sure as hell didn't hear this.


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post #36617 of 36623 Old Today, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
To give you an idea, that one sub has about the same output down low and maybe a bit less higher up as all 8 of these subs in my room combined:






So, unless you are an over the top bass head and plan on getting a second 4000 someday and don't worry about possible damage to your house I would go with the 2 2400's. The foot print is a lot more room friendly compared to the 4000. Also, the bass will be a lot smoother throughout the room with 2 subs so I think that's an easy decision.

Well, you could always port yours lol

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With the 8 up front and the nearfield sub I'm done upgrading/changing subs! That's what I keep telling myself...

I have had the 8 up front for 4 years now so I'm actually starting to believe it.
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I've been looking at the batabass graphs,they got 110db at 10 hrz and 119db at 20 hrz,now are both measurements at the same volume level?lets say your watching a movie and get 110 db at 10 hertz then you get hit with 20 hertz,will that be at 119 db?assuming we leave room gain out of it and are just going off the graph.
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Originally Posted by glissaid View Post
I've been looking at the batabass graphs,they got 110db at 10 hrz and 119db at 20 hrz,now are both measurements at the same volume level?lets say your watching a movie and get 110 db at 10 hertz then you get hit with 20 hertz,will that be at 119 db?assuming we leave room gain out of it and are just going off the graph.
You left out a key metric - what is the encoded SPL of the effect at each frequency in the movie? For example, at 23:42 into the movie there might be a large explosion. Proper playback of that explosion might require 90 dB at 10 Hz and 112 dB at 20 Hz. Will the Cap 4000ULF play that back correctly? Yes, although I'm not taking into account the listening distance.

Just because a tuba can hit 114 dB at 44 Hz doesn't mean that all the tuba's in the band will always play 44 Hz at 114 dB. That is just the maximum they can play at that frequency.

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post #36621 of 36623 Old Today, 08:10 PM
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What do you guys think of the 210rt,I haven't seen much talk about these and they look great with the horn at ear level and a large port on the bottom.
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post #36622 of 36623 Old Today, 08:27 PM
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What do you guys think of the 210rt,I haven't seen much talk about these and they look great with the horn at ear level and a large port on the bottom.
I think it is the best all around JTR speaker.

I have had:

228HT
212HTR
210RT
215RT

In that order.
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post #36623 of 36623 Old Today, 08:46 PM
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I think it is the best all around JTR speaker.

I have had:

228HT
212HTR
210RT
215RT

In that order.
Holy cow I think that is clear definition of upgraditis.You definitely have experience and commend you👍
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