Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1225 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:45 PM
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Just ordered a Captivator S1 from Jeff for the center rear of my theater to compliment the Captivator S2 up front in the center of my baffle wall. The S1 will replace dual JL Audio F112 that were previously in the rear of the room.

I also have a Seaton Submersive on each side wall and wonder if replacing them with S1's would add any real benefit. I feel like I am chasing the last 1% of performance by replacing the Seaton's with S1s.

Datasat LS10 with Atmos / DTS X and Dirac Live cards __ Parasound Halo A31, Parasound Zonemaster 1250 bridged, Parasound Zonemaster 450 bridged
Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5iw and P5v for surround/Atmos speakers __ JTR Captivator S2 (1st to receive New 2017 version) and Dual Seaton Submersive HP+ up front, JTR Captivator S1 in rear
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD, 128" diagonal / 118" wide __ Projector: JVC 4910
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:09 PM
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For those routing the LFE Channel to the 215's what gear are using. And if you are not why not?


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MiniDSP Nano AVR when I decide to run full range in 7.1. Usually for movies I cross them over to 4 S2 subs
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I am running the 215RT LCR's full range with no subs. My processor (Marantz 7702) allows the LCR's to be set as full range hence they get the LFE channel info. I originally did route the LFE to the LCR's via a Rane RPM 88. This allowed me to do the channel mixing and, place a 15hz HP filter on them as well. The Rane was noisy (fans always on) and I prefer fewer A/D conversions and connections so the current setup is direct per/pro to amp and no HP filters. Sans an HP filter I should be more cautious how hard I drive them ... but I'm not ...
lucky you! I can set my LCR to large in my Onkyo SC5509 but it does not send the LFE signal to the center channel unfortunately. This is why I have to use the Minidsp NanoAVR but it also has the benefit of being able to EQ as I wish.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:46 PM
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lucky you! I can set my LCR to large in my Onkyo SC5509 but it does not send the LFE signal to the center channel unfortunately. This is why I have to use the Minidsp NanoAVR but it also has the benefit of being able to EQ as I wish.
Yeah, that's what I should do but I'm too lazy to tackle another even simple products learning curve. I keep thinking the ideal affordable 13 channel SSP or AVR with Dirac will come along and save the day.

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Old 02-28-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
New Product idea. So, I've been working on a dual 12" professional subwoofer tuned to 38hz and realized these would work in a larger, lower tuned Noesis 212 and could make "tower" versions. Same specs as the Noesis 212HT and 212HTR but extend down to 38hz and would be called the Noesis 212T (tower) and Noesis 212RT (reference tower). The larger cabinet and high excursion drivers would add $300. I'm looking to see if there is any interest.
It may be to soon to ask but

How will these blend with the current 212HTR? A pair of the RT as L&R and use the 3 HTR as center and side surrounds in a 5.1.4 system.

Chris

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Old 02-28-2017, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I am running the 215RT LCR's full range with no subs. My processor (Marantz 7702) allows the LCR's to be set as full range hence they get the LFE channel info. I originally did route the LFE to the LCR's via a Rane RPM 88. This allowed me to do the channel mixing and, place a 15hz HP filter on them as well. The Rane was noisy (fans always on) and I prefer fewer A/D conversions and connections so the current setup is direct pre/pro to amp and no HP filters.

Sans an HP filter I should be more cautious how hard I drive them ... but I'm not
Ok so thats 7702 dependent. Is this a newer feature some pre's are coming out with? I honestly have not paid attention to the last couple years of options

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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
MiniDSP Nano AVR when I decide to run full range in 7.1. Usually for movies I cross them over to 4 S2 subs
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
lucky you! I can set my LCR to large in my Onkyo SC5509 but it does not send the LFE signal to the center channel unfortunately. This is why I have to use the Minidsp NanoAVR but it also has the benefit of being able to EQ as I wish.
Well quad S2 is just silly man! I was thinking more along the lines RMK uses them as subs essentially, six 15's across his front wall. Also having the top three up in the air to benefit for additional smoothing.

I mean LCR 215's with lets say 2-4 smoothing subs (18's) should add a pretty stellar visceral bass experience from 15-17hz on up.

And you get no noise from the mini dsp unit? I know several 4722 owners recently have had issues with them, quality control problems and noise. Of course 104db vs 95db sensitive...
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Ok so thats 7702 dependent. Is this a newer feature some pre's are coming out with? I honestly have not paid attention to the last couple years of options





Well quad S2 is just silly man! I was thinking more along the lines RMK uses them as subs essentially, six 15's across his front wall. Also having the top three up in the air to benefit for additional smoothing.

I mean LCR 215's with lets say 2-4 smoothing subs (18's) should add a pretty stellar visceral bass experience from 15-17hz on up.

And you get no noise from the mini dsp unit? I know several 4722 owners recently have had issues with them, quality control problems and noise. Of course 104db vs 95db sensitive...
No noise at all. I also have one in a different system with 212HT(R)'s. The NanoAVR accepts a PCM signal over hdmi and you tweak that signal in the digital domain. No additional D/A conversion. I primarily use it for a HPF on my 215RT's. Downside for some would be it doesn't work with atmos but I don't have that and don't plan on adding it any time sooon.
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Just ordered a Captivator S1 from Jeff for the center rear of my theater to compliment the Captivator S2 up front in the center of my baffle wall. The S1 will replace dual JL Audio F112 that were previously in the rear of the room.

I also have a Seaton Submersive on each side wall and wonder if replacing them with S1's would add any real benefit. I feel like I am chasing the last 1% of performance by replacing the Seaton's with S1s.
I have seaton master/slave up front and s1 in back. I sometimes want to add something and i think about changing out the seatons for s1s, but then I listen and think why.....i would like to eventually add another s1 to back to balance it out.

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Old 02-28-2017, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Ok so thats 7702 dependent. Is this a newer feature some pre's are coming out with? I honestly have not paid attention to the last couple years of options





Well quad S2 is just silly man! I was thinking more along the lines RMK uses them as subs essentially, six 15's across his front wall. Also having the top three up in the air to benefit for additional smoothing.

I mean LCR 215's with lets say 2-4 smoothing subs (18's) should add a pretty stellar visceral bass experience from 15-17hz on up.

And you get no noise from the mini dsp unit? I know several 4722 owners recently have had issues with them, quality control problems and noise. Of course 104db vs 95db sensitive...
The 215's themselves don't need subs. I can tune in all of the bass boost I could ever want. I sit about 15-16 feet from them and to really get the couch rocking I need to play them really loud. 2 S2's placed nearfield give me all the tactile feedback I could want (and I have 2 more up front for good measure).
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:34 PM
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^That's overkill "good measure" but in a good way
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:40 PM
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The 215's themselves don't need subs. I can tune in all of the bass boost I could ever want. I sit about 15-16 feet from them and to really get the couch rocking I need to play them really loud. 2 S2's placed nearfield give me all the tactile feedback I could want (and I have 2 more up front for good measure).
2 S2's nearfield....OMG!!!!

Does that ever feel overwhelming?

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Old 02-28-2017, 06:53 PM
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2 S2's nearfield....OMG!!!!

Does that ever feel overwhelming?
Yes - during hacksaw ridge in particular. I also have 4 midbass modules on top of the S2's.
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:56 PM
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And you get no noise from the mini dsp unit? I know several 4722 owners recently have had issues with them, quality control problems and noise. Of course 104db vs 95db sensitive...
Did you see my comment about using the NanoAVR which is Hdmi only? I also use one on my system with 3 212HTR's and zero noise. I think the one you are talking about is the 88A like @carp had. I think he had noise problems. No issue with these units but they also don't work with atmos, 7.1 PCM only.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Did you see my comment about using the NanoAVR which is Hdmi only? I also use one on my system with 3 212HTR's and zero noise. I think the one you are talking about is the 88A like @carp had. I think he had noise problems. No issue with these units but they also don't work with atmos, 7.1 PCM only.
I have dual 88a's and I don't have any noise problems.

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Old 02-28-2017, 07:11 PM
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Yes - during hacksaw ridge in particular. I also have 4 midbass modules on top of the S2's.
I've heard nothing but good things (sonically) about Hacksaw Ridge and I can't wait to watch it.

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Old 02-28-2017, 07:13 PM
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I have dual 88a's and I don't have any noise problems.
Which speakers are you using with them?
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:18 PM
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Which speakers are you using with them?
Same as you my friend, except I have a 215RM for center.

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Old 02-28-2017, 07:24 PM
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Same as you my friend, except I have a 215RM for center.
I knew that LOL, sorry!

I think Carp had noise problems with his 88A and the JBL4722, but they are 9db more sensitive than the 215's and would magnify any noise.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
New Product idea. So, I've been working on a dual 12" professional subwoofer tuned to 38hz and realized these would work in a larger, lower tuned Noesis 212 and could make "tower" versions. Same specs as the Noesis 212HT and 212HTR but extend down to 38hz and would be called the Noesis 212T (tower) and Noesis 212RT (reference tower). The larger cabinet and high excursion drivers would add $300. I'm looking to see if there is any interest.
This is VERY interesting Jeff, I mentioned this in another forum the other day thinking it was this forum and didn't realize it until after I posted it but as I stated in the other forum if these would have been available before my 215RT/215RM/210RT purchase this is the route I would have chosen with not even a second guess as i have and was hoping for quite some time before my purchase that you would have had this exact speaker option available as, for me this intermediate size between the 210RT and 215RT would have fit my HT room perfectly and obviously the performance would and will be there if you make these and for a measly $300 up charge that is a steal! I would have taken the money savings over my 215RT's and purchased another sub from you in addition as i am having 4000ULF lust even though I own an OS!
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:00 AM
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Official JTR speaker thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Yes - during hacksaw ridge in particular. I also have 4 midbass modules on top of the S2's.


You need help



Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Did you see my comment about using the NanoAVR which is Hdmi only? I also use one on my system with 3 212HTR's and zero noise. I think the one you are talking about is the 88A like @carp had. I think he had noise problems. No issue with these units but they also don't work with atmos, 7.1 PCM only.


Yes, I am familiar with the HDMI based nano AVR. I like not adding an extra DA conversion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
I've heard nothing but good things (sonically) about Hacksaw Ridge and I can't wait to watch it.


Watched Hacksaw ridge tonight on the 4722's and 17cu ft ported FTW 21's (15.7 hz port tune) and dang it was intense. The newer Dolby thing before the movie was sweet too, seriously amazing actually. But I have a sudden desire to experience a 215RT . Crossover points are 350hz and what else? It's a 3-way right unless I'm blanking. Also what is the CD height?

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Old 03-01-2017, 08:59 AM
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No problem! I hope you like them as much as I do. I would imagine the 15 in your tempest would give the 210 a run for the money, but everything else would be no contest. I'm test driving Carp's Crown xti4002 so I can use the 30hz hpf in its dsp to protect the drivers. I will also try crossing a sealed hs24 for 34hz down. This combo I think will be my huckleberry.
But then what would you do with those sweet Ghorns? Basement duty?

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Yeah, that's what I should do but I'm too lazy to tackle another even simple products learning curve. I keep thinking the ideal affordable 13 channel SSP or AVR with Dirac will come along and save the day.
Perhaps a few of those arcam units will show up used soon enough, the avr's should be at a decent price.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:16 AM
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Perhaps a few of those arcam units will show up used soon enough, the avr's should be at a decent price.
Yeah, with my full range LCR's and no separate subs, I may be one of the few who could use the units as is with the BM issues. Does give me pause though and I wonder if the amp channels are assignable since I would not be powering the LCR's with the AVR but would like to use the AVR for the 4 surround and 4 Atmos channels.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:08 PM
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But then what would you do with those sweet Ghorns? Basement duty?



Perhaps a few of those arcam units will show up used soon enough, the avr's should be at a decent price.

The 210s are going downstairs in the ht for 2ch, or 2.1 with the nearfield hs24. Movies will have 11 Radian 5210, pair of Othorns, and hs24.

I've been watching the Arcam thread and their Dirac issue. Looks like they are getting closer to sorting it out with the firmware update on Monday.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:18 PM
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The 210s are going downstairs in the ht for 2ch, or 2.1 with the nearfield hs24. Movies will have 11 Radian 5210, pair of Othorns, and hs24.

I've been watching the Arcam thread and their Dirac issue. Looks like they are getting closer to sorting it out with the firmware update on Monday.
Duh, I knew that....
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:14 PM
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So how can one tell if an AVR/Pre is capable of routing LFE to mains? This a new 2016+ feature on select few?

And what do you all think of the Crown DSi 1000 Amplifer for the 215RT? 1400 watts rated @4ohm s, Harman's DSP is decent for EQ manipulation, HP filter available of course...
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
So how can one tell if an AVR/Pre is capable of routing LFE to mains? This a new 2016+ feature on select few?

And what do you all think of the Crown DSi 1000 Amplifer for the 215RT? 1400 watts rated @4ohm s, Harman's DSP is decent for EQ manipulation, HP filter available of course...
I think they pretty much all let you run "double bass", LFE+Main or whatever they call it. I knew Jeff planted a seed the other day with his male voices being low comment huh

What AVR do you have?

HTPC, Sony 40es, Marantz 7702mkii, Sunfire Cinema Grand 225w x 5, JBL 590, JBL 520

PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive, 2 Um-18 8cf sealed, Outlaw Ultra x 12, Kappa Pro 18LF, BFM Tuba 60 horn, B&C 18TBW100 6cf 41hz, 34hz, 28hz tune

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Old 03-02-2017, 06:44 AM
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So how can one tell if an AVR/Pre is capable of routing LFE to mains? This a new 2016+ feature on select few?
I've never seen one that couldn't do this, although they use varying terminology. I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of the spec.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:55 AM
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Yeah, with my full range LCR's and no separate subs, I may be one of the few who could use the units as is with the BM issues. Does give me pause though and I wonder if the amp channels are assignable since I would not be powering the LCR's with the AVR but would like to use the AVR for the 4 surround and 4 Atmos channels.
Not assignable. You can use 4 internal amps to run surrounds, but would need external amps for atmos speakers.

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Old 03-02-2017, 07:16 AM
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Not assignable. You can use 4 internal amps to run surrounds, but would need external amps for atmos speakers.
Thanks for the confirmation Scott. I downloaded the Arcam manual thought that was the case. To bad really as with all the new immersive formats, and additional channels, the HT AVR manufacturers need to allow for amp channel assignment. Looks like a pre/pro is the only option for me.

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Old 03-02-2017, 07:20 AM
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On any receiver/processor I've tested, the only way to route LFE to the mains is to set the subwoofer to off. You can't use the subwoofer output if you want to route the LFE to the mains. When the sub is set to off, the LFE is routed to either LR or LCR.

The LFE+MAIN is always a subwoofer setting, not a speaker setting. It determines what is sent to the subwoofer. If on, it routes low frequencies from speakers to sub even if the speaker is set to large. Onkyo has called it "Double Bass" and Yamaha has called it "Both." Yamaha no longer includes it as an option. When subwoofer output is set to None on a Yamaha, the LFE and bass from surrounds is routed to the LCR.

Marantz's answer to What is “LFE” and what is the difference between “LFE” and "LFE+MAIN?” has been up for 9 years now.
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