Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1233 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36961 of 37754 Old 03-19-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
JTR's new website looks sharp! BIG upgrade.
What's the new web address? I can't enter www.jtrspeakers.com
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post #36962 of 37754 Old 03-19-2017, 10:09 PM
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Agreed! It was discussed recently how the lineup of all the 2-ways, 3-ways, towers, etc was a little confusing. Now it looks very nicely laid out with prices, etc.

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post #36963 of 37754 Old 03-19-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
What's the new web address? I can't enter www.jtrspeakers.com

This link gets you to the new JTR Speakers website URL.

Very clean and simple. Nice pic of some 215RT's on the home page ...

They look so intimidating and I miss being able to see them when playing music. Makes me want a powered AT screen again.
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post #36964 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 08:29 AM
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New site seems to have lost the link to the old forum. Hope that gets fixed. Lots of good info there.
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post #36965 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 10:55 AM
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I have the forum open on a tab and it's operable.

https://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/?forum=104675

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post #36966 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 11:08 AM
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So I think I am reading too much into my amp situation, going OCD. My main concern though is that I just do not want to deal with noise issues AT ALL PERIOD! Most likely it will be a trial thing once I get the 215's. Crown amps look to be staying with me so I have them and the Crest amps to try.

But I was reading up on specs and discovered the Crest Pro Lite series has a measly 100db SNR rating. That's the same as an iNuke. But, and a big butt, is that many here have used iNukes with ZERO noise on the 215RT's (Carp, RMK and Raynist that I know of). Raynist even used the iNuke on the ultra conservatively rated 101DB sensitive original 212 Noesis (BMS4593/old metal horn). And HTPcat used Crown XLS 1500's on His 212's I am pretty sure with no issues.

Now my concern originates from my personal experience with separate amps. Basically the two times I tried both were fails. First was JTR triple 8's and the old Sherbourn PA-7350 many of us jumped on few years ago. The noise sucked and after a couple days I unhooked it and listed on ebay. It had a 105DB SNR rating but I think many suspected something else was wrong with that batch of PA-7350's and hence the blowout clearance prices we had gotten. Next was the Crown DSi 1000 (103db SNR rating) on the JBL 4722 (104db sensitive rating) passive and the noise was not nice. Now if I was in a absorptive room sitting 12ft back maybe it would be non issue but I don't even want that. I want ultra clean and quiet noise floor as it's important factor to me. I know the 215 is rated at 95db sensitive so that helps but Jeff is always conservative on his numbers.

Power wise I highly doubt I will ever use the DSi's 1400 watts but I do intend to run my LCR 215's AS MY MAIN subs for life with two near fields and two smoothing added in. Even then I doubt I will use all that power but want to be sure. I am not a ULF chaser and good output to 20hz is fine with me. Small room acoustics and room gain usually take it to 15hz anyway.

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post #36967 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 11:24 AM
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Anyone here have experience with Meyer Sound? I found this post comparing JTR to Meyer Sound (the poster owns both): Official JTR speaker thread

It is quite favorable towards JTR but the poster stated the Meyer Sound Acheron loudspeaker is much better for music.

Anyone else have any experience with the Meyer Sound EXP (cinema) line? How would you rate it in comparison to JTR?
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post #36968 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
So I think I am reading too much into my amp situation, going OCD. My main concern though is that I just do not want to deal with noise issues AT ALL PERIOD! Most likely it will be a trial thing once I get the 215's. Crown amps look to be staying with me so I have them and the Crest amps to try.

But I was reading up on specs and discovered the Crest Pro Lite series has a measly 100db SNR rating. That's the same as an iNuke. But, and a big butt, is that many here have used iNukes with ZERO noise on the 215RT's (Carp, RMK and Raynist that I know of). Raynist even used the iNuke on the ultra conservatively rated 101DB sensitive original 212 Noesis (BMS4593/old metal horn). And HTPcat used Crown XLS 1500's on His 212's I am pretty sure with no issues.

Now my concern originates from my personal experience with separate amps. Basically the two times I tried both were fails. First was JTR triple 8's and the old Sherbourn PA-7350 many of us jumped on few years ago. The noise sucked and after a couple days I unhooked it and listed on ebay. It had a 105DB SNR rating but I think many suspected something else was wrong with that batch of PA-7350's and hence the blowout clearance prices we had gotten. Next was the Crown DSi 1000 (103db SNR rating) on the JBL 4722 (104db sensitive rating) passive and the noise was not nice. Now if I was in a absorptive room sitting 12ft back maybe it would be non issue but I don't even want that. I want ultra clean and quiet noise floor as it's important factor to me. I know the 215 is rated at 95db sensitive so that helps but Jeff is always conservative on his numbers.

Power wise I highly doubt I will ever use the DSi's 1400 watts but I do intend to run my LCR 215's AS MY MAIN subs for life with two near fields and two smoothing added in. Even then I doubt I will use all that power but want to be sure. I am not a ULF chaser and good output to 20hz is fine with me. Small room acoustics and room gain usually take it to 15hz anyway.

I did not have zero noise with the 215's using the inuke. I had some hiss, but I could barely hear if from the seats. Using the 88A I had quite a bit more hiss and could easily hear it from the seats which was part of my motivation for selling the 88A.
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post #36969 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I did not have zero noise with the 215's using the inuke. I had some hiss, but I could barely hear if from the seats. Using the 88A I had quite a bit more hiss and could easily hear it from the seats which was part of my motivation for selling the 88A.
I think that's part of the mini DSP quality control problem. I wonder if it has something to do with the electrical engineering side of things we/I just don't understand. I mean how can some use the 88A with the JBL 4722 and Crown XLS 1500's with very minimal noise? And some get zero noise with the 88a and 212's? Why do some get a tiny or no noise at all then some with same amp get noise. Surely it has to be the homes electrical system/cleanliness at this point.

I don't want noise at all. I see the Crest CC2800 has an SNR of 111db and can do 2800 watts bridged in 4ohms. I think this may be the ultimate route I go. I will see what the 100db SNR Pro Lite and 103db SNR DSi amps sound like at the end of April...

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post #36970 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I think that's part of the mini DSP quality control problem. I wonder if it has something to do with the electrical engineering side of things we/I just don't understand. I mean how can some use the 88A with the JBL 4722 and Crown XLS 1500's with very minimal noise? And some get zero noise with the 88a and 212's? Why do some get a tiny or no noise at all then some with same amp get noise. Surely it has to be the homes electrical system/cleanliness at this point.



I don't want noise at all. I see the Crest CC2800 has an SNR of 111db and can do 2800 watts bridged in 4ohms. I think this may be the ultimate route I go. I will see what the 100db SNR Pro Lite and 103db SNR DSi amps sound like at the end of April...


I had noise with the emotiva xpa5/xpa2 and the 212htrs and I still had the noise when I added two of the 88as .. I managed to completely eliminate it using the Jensen ISO-max transformers.. I have everything on th same circuit but the transformers still eliminated the problem and the speakers are now dead quiet even when I put my ears against it.. I only used it with the channels that had the noise..
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post #36971 of 37754 Old 03-20-2017, 02:10 PM
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I had noise with the emotiva xpa5/xpa2 and the 212htrs and I still had the noise when I added two of the 88as .. I managed to completely eliminate it using the Jensen ISO-max transformers.. I have everything on th same circuit but the transformers still eliminated the problem and the speakers are now dead quiet even when I put my ears against it.. I only used it with the channels that had the noise..
Nice, I read up on them, thanks! My goats will no longer be disturbed by the loud humm

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post #36972 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 07:39 AM
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Anyone here have experience with Meyer Sound? I found this post comparing JTR to Meyer Sound (the poster owns both): Official JTR speaker thread

It is quite favorable towards JTR but the poster stated the Meyer Sound Acheron loudspeaker is much better for music.

Anyone else have any experience with the Meyer Sound EXP (cinema) line? How would you rate it in comparison to JTR?
Never heard them myself but since Meyer sound is somewhat local to me I might go check them out. For what it's worth, I have heard good things about them from a Pro Audio source. When I demoed the JBL M2's and asked "what's the best studio monitor" one of the dealers said he preferred Meyer Sound. I don't recall the model and they are expensive (something like $30K a pair).

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post #36973 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Anyone here have experience with Meyer Sound? I found this post comparing JTR to Meyer Sound (the poster owns both): Official JTR speaker thread

It is quite favorable towards JTR but the poster stated the Meyer Sound Acheron loudspeaker is much better for music.

Anyone else have any experience with the Meyer Sound EXP (cinema) line? How would you rate it in comparison to JTR?
If you're really into music and obsessive about subtleties, I'd recommend any of the 3-way JTRs and a side of Dirac.
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post #36974 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
I also am running Parasound A51/A21/2205A combo and it seems to work very well with my 228HTRs and Slanted-8 LPs. The 2205A did have a quiet hiss (barely noticeable), so it's been moved to ATMOS duty as it only get used when watching blu-ray movies. The A51 & A21 are dead quiet and and produce more power than my ears can take. They seem to mate well with the JTRs and I believe will serve me well with future JTR upgrades.
I've tried a 2205A before, and I also have a Parasound 5125. Those have decent power, but they lack the super pleasing sound of the A51/A31/A21 series with my 212s. Fine for surrounds, but I definitely prefer my A51 for my mains. I used to have JC1s, but I sold them when I realized I couldn't hear the difference between them and my A51 after room correction.

(None of these comparisons were blind, so take them for what they're worth. The noise and power are more reliable measures, of course.)

If nothing else, this tells you what specs get you hiss-free through the high sensitivity 212s:
Signal-to-noise ratio: >112 dB, input shorted, IHF A-weighted; 102 dB, input shorted, unweighted
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post #36975 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 10:40 AM
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2. Any comments/opinions on how the 228HT/228HTR compare to the Catalyst 8C?
This is purely based on second-hand in the case of the Cat8s, but reviews back and forth in comparisons has been split pretty evenly. It depends on the room more than the speaker, at that level.

The 228HTR would be the comparable one to the Cat8s, since that is the 3-way model.

Now that I've heard both 2-way and 3-way JTRs, I do favor the 3-ways.

Back to the Cat8s vs JTRs, there is a directivity difference. The JTRs have more controlled (narrower) off axis response, due to the horn. This will produce a more focus sounded that is less sensitive to room acoustics, while the Cat8s will send more sound to the walls, producing more ambience with the same room acoustics. The JTRs shine with vocal clarity, by virtue of sending less sound to the walls.

Personally, I like the JTR focus. Some people prize more ambience. Both are amazingly capable speakers. With some room treatment and EQ, I'm sure you could make either of them suit your tastes.
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post #36976 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
This is purely based on second-hand in the case of the Cat8s, but reviews back and forth in comparisons has been split pretty evenly. It depends on the room more than the speaker, at that level.

The 228HTR would be the comparable one to the Cat8s, since that is the 3-way model.

Now that I've heard both 2-way and 3-way JTRs, I do favor the 3-ways.

Back to the Cat8s vs JTRs, there is a directivity difference. The JTRs have more controlled (narrower) off axis response, due to the horn. This will produce a more focus sounded that is less sensitive to room acoustics, while the Cat8s will send more sound to the walls, producing more ambience with the same room acoustics. The JTRs shine with vocal clarity, by virtue of sending less sound to the walls.

Personally, I like the JTR focus. Some people prize more ambience. Both are amazingly capable speakers. With some room treatment and EQ, I'm sure you could make either of them suit your tastes.
I've heard great things about the 210RT's, I do wonder how cat 8's would sound against them in a head to head if there is anything significant to be gained. For the record I run Cat 8's LCR.
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post #36977 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 05:21 PM
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I've heard great things about the 210RT's, I do wonder how cat 8's would sound against them in a head to head if there is anything significant to be gained. For the record I run Cat 8's LCR.
That would be neat to compare. I suspect that they would be subtlely different. Pretty minor stuff, compared to room and EQ.

Both are 3 way.
Both are extremely dynamic, with low distortion.
Cat8 is active.
Different off-axis response, particularly with the horn vs 8" coax & different crossover points to the woofers.
210 plays lower, which is only an issue if you don't use subs.
210 is floor standing, so that depends on practical issues.
210 may have an advantage with mid-bass, with the larger woofers.

I'd be happy with either, once I tailored them with EQ.

I guess I worried about subtleties with speaker voicing more before I started really using EQ.
Now I worry more about speaker capability & distortion.

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post #36978 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
That would be neat to compare. I suspect that they would be subtlely different. Pretty minor stuff, compared to room and EQ.

Both are 3 way.
Both are extremely dynamic, with low distortion.
Cat8 is active.
Different off-axis response, particularly with the horn vs 8" coax & different crossover points to the woofers.
210 plays lower, which is only an issue if you don't use subs.
210 is floor standing, so that depends on practical issues.
210 may have an advantage with mid-bass, with the larger woofers.

I'd be happy with either, once I tailored them with EQ.

I guess I worried about subtleties with speaker voicing more before I started really using EQ.
Now I worry more about speaker capability & distortion.
I always keep an eye out for improvement haha. I heard a few members talking very highly about the 210's even in relation to the 215's and it always makes me a little curious. I just had a run in with some M2's and it was a real eye opener in terms of how good sound reproduction can get, not that the cat 8's are any slouch.
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post #36979 of 37754 Old 03-21-2017, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
That would be neat to compare. I suspect that they would be subtlely different. Pretty minor stuff, compared to room and EQ.

Both are 3 way.
Both are extremely dynamic, with low distortion.
Cat8 is active.
Different off-axis response, particularly with the horn vs 8" coax & different crossover points to the woofers.
210 plays lower, which is only an issue if you don't use subs.
210 is floor standing, so that depends on practical issues.
210 may have an advantage with mid-bass, with the larger woofers.

I'd be happy with either, once I tailored them with EQ.

I guess I worried about subtleties with speaker voicing more before I started really using EQ.
Now I worry more about speaker capability & distortion.
I always keep an eye out for improvement haha. I heard a few members talking very highly about the 210's even in relation to the 215's and it always makes me a little curious. I just had a run in with some M2's and it was a real eye opener in terms of how good sound reproduction can get, not that the cat 8's are any slouch.
I'd love to hear an M2 to see what the fuss is about. Several forum members getting those lately. I'm honestly not sure how it can get better, but maybe I just need to experience it.

I don't know that the 210 would be better than 215s, but it is certainly smaller and cheaper, which is pretty cool for something comparable in many ways. The crossover is at a different point, so that will be different, depending on content. All of the variants will be slightly better or worse depending on the room, setup, and content.
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post #36980 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 09:22 AM
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New Cap 118HT owners - Hey all, I am one of the lucky early recipients of the new JTR Cap 118HTs at the beginning of this month. It plays great, but unfortunately came without the front magnetic grill. I was wondering if other earlier owners had the same issue and if they had received them yet? It is sitting in my family room and a cover up of the huge woofer would be a god send for WAF.

Thanks
Have you contacted @Jeff Permanian about it?
When I received my Cap 118HTs they both had the covers included in the boxes.

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post #36981 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 09:37 AM
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A couple went out without grills due to issues with the fabric. We willl be getting everyone's grills out by the end of this week.
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post #36982 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 10:18 AM
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Yes... I have spoken to him and sent e-mails. I still haven't received it yet. I am not really sure what to do.
Maybe work on your reading comprehension? I believe Jeff answered your question in the post immediately preceding your last one.
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post #36983 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 12:05 PM
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Wow!!!!

For 3-4 years the old site said 'new site coming soon'. I thought maybe it was a joke.

Very nice upgrade!!
@ Raynist : If I remember correctly from older posts - you own both PSA 210s and JTR big boys!
I am trying to reach an LCR upgrade decision between the PSA 210T + 210C vs the JTR 228 HTs. Which are both highly regarded here. Appreciate your opinion as to the relative merits and negatives if any of the PSA and JTR speakers.

I am a relative noob having been infected by this virus only 18 month ago!

I especially welcome comments from this knowledgeable group who have experienced the PSAs and/or JTRs.

The new LCR will replace my Ascend 340SE + Ascend 170 set up in my 20' x 15' x 8' dedicated HT room.
Power is from a Yamaha RX V779 AVR. Lower end is covered by a single 15" Hsu Vtf3 Mk5 sub near-field used as an end table inches from my elbow. However a second Sub will join next. The excellent Ascends will move to my living room.

MLP couch is 17' from screen/speakers. My usage is 70/30 movies & music.

Price diff is roughly $1000 between these two LCR sets, which is significant. So other than price what aspects should I be considering? I do not listen at anywhere near reference level as I have sensitive hearing. I do enjoy good clean sound and bass with ample headroom. Music without a Sub (ie 2 speakers only) is not really a priority as I enjoy the fullness and depth a Sub adds. I like vocals and jazz not EDM nor heavy classical.

Physically the 210T Cab is bigger likely allowing it to dig deeper also it wont need stands, the 228HTs weighing in at 75lbs will need expensive sturdy stands.

PSA and JTR each have a strong and loyal following among the discerning AVS members and I will probably not regret going with either set. However I want to make the best choice.

Another factor is the ease of resale when inevitably I decide to upgrade further up!

Thank you for reading!

Sean

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post #36984 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 03:36 PM
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Maybe work on your reading comprehension? I believe Jeff answered your question in the post immediately preceding your last one.
Do you think he may have missed it due to him posting 1 minute (or less) after Jeff?
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post #36985 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 04:15 PM
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Do you think he may have missed it due to him posting 1 minute (or less) after Jeff?
Yes, and as I made a horrible attempt to appear in joking matter, we have already cleared it up via PM. All is good! I rarely try to be combative or talk like that in real life, but I seem to do a better job there than on the interwebz on portraying my flippant demeanor.

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post #36986 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 04:53 PM
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I saw on JTR's facebook page mention of a pending 212RT. I have been contemplating the 210s, but a 212RT might just make me pull the trigger.
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post #36987 of 37754 Old 03-23-2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanBWI View Post
@ Raynist : If I remember correctly from older posts - you own both PSA 210s and JTR big boys!
I am trying to reach an LCR upgrade decision between the PSA 210T + 210C vs the JTR 228 HTs. Which are both highly regarded here. Appreciate your opinion as to the relative merits and negatives if any of the PSA and JTR speakers.

I am a relative noob having been infected by this virus only 18 month ago!

I especially welcome comments from this knowledgeable group who have experienced the PSAs and/or JTRs.

The new LCR will replace my Ascend 340SE + Ascend 170 set up in my 20' x 15' x 8' dedicated HT room.
Power is from a Yamaha RX V779 AVR. Lower end is covered by a single 15" Hsu Vtf3 Mk5 sub near-field used as an end table inches from my elbow. However a second Sub will join next. The excellent Ascends will move to my living room.

MLP couch is 17' from screen/speakers. My usage is 70/30 movies & music.

Price diff is roughly $1000 between these two LCR sets, which is significant. So other than price what aspects should I be considering? I do not listen at anywhere near reference level as I have sensitive hearing. I do enjoy good clean sound and bass with ample headroom. Music without a Sub (ie 2 speakers only) is not really a priority as I enjoy the fullness and depth a Sub adds. I like vocals and jazz not EDM nor heavy classical.

Physically the 210T Cab is bigger likely allowing it to dig deeper also it wont need stands, the 228HTs weighing in at 75lbs will need expensive sturdy stands.

PSA and JTR each have a strong and loyal following among the discerning AVS members and I will probably not regret going with either set. However I want to make the best choice.

Another factor is the ease of resale when inevitably I decide to upgrade further up!

Thank you for reading!

Sean
Hi,

The PSA 210's and the JTR 228's were similar. The 228HT's I had were the 2014 model. Jeff has updated them several times since then. I think they now have more midbass, bigger waveguide and lower crossover. The PSA 210T's will go lower but I notice a harshness at really loud levels with some music (close to reference). It could be the room though.

The 210T's have a smaller waveguide and the crossover is higher (2k I think vs 850hz) so they would have different dispersion characteristics. I don't think you can go wrong with either though.
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post #36988 of 37754 Old 03-24-2017, 04:00 AM
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Looking for some more input...

I live in Dubai and I won't be able to hear any of the speakers I am considering for my new home theater setup (Seaton Sound and JTR). Because of this, I need to rely on everyone's comments/opinions on each speaker.

For the Seaton Sound setup, I am considering the 8C or the 12C for LCR, the new passive Spark for side and back surrounds along with the ceiling speakers. For the subwoofers, they will be two powered SubMersive HPs with two slave SubMersive HPs.

For the JTR setup, I am considering the 228HTR for LCR, and Single 8HT-lp or Slanted 8HT-lp for sides, backs, and ceiling speakers. The subwoofers will remain SubMersives (same setup as the Seaton Sound subwoofer setup).

If I want to setup it up a bit, I could try to spring for 8C all around for LCR, sides, and backs with the passive Spark for ceiling speakers. Subwoofer setup will remain the same.

For the JTR side, if I wanted to setup it up, I could try 228HTR for LCR, 228HT for sides and backs, and Single 8HT-lp or Slanted 8HT-lp for ceiling speakers. Subwoofer setup remains the same.

For the amps for the JTR setup, I am leaning towards one Parasound A 51 and two A 31 amps.

Now the subjective part...

While most state both brands offer speakers are the very clear sounding with great detail, some have stated that the Seaton Sound offerings sound "veiled" and lacking detail. Here is one example where the user compared the 12C to a Genelec speaker: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...onitor-4897368

I don't want a veiled sounding speaker so I am a bit worried. I currently have the original (2002) model Klipsch RF-7, RC-7, and RS-7 (with a single 1000 watt SubMersive) speakers and want to setup up in output and sound quality. The reason I am leaning towards Seaton Sound is because you get the speaker + amp package which reduces the chances of user "induced" variations that could change the overall sound of the setup. Another reason is that some have stated that Seaton Sound is more refined than JTR.

Any input will be appreciated.
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post #36989 of 37754 Old 03-24-2017, 07:25 AM
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I think the 228HTR will be a bit cleaner sounding all the way up the SPL scale due to a higher quality compression driver. They will be a bit more dynamic as well. That was my feeling when comparing the JTR Triple 12's to the Cat 12's several years ago. As others have said, either of these speakers can be made to sound just as you like it with EQ so any native performance delta may not be noticeable. That said, you can't EQ in better clarity or lower distortion of the CD.

I think the passive vs active issue would be my biggest concern. As good as the amps may be, I have heard of amp failures with the Seatons and being as you are in Dubai, getting a replacement will require cost and logistics issues which make that risk a factor to be considered.

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post #36990 of 37754 Old 03-24-2017, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Yes, and as I made a horrible attempt to appear in joking matter, we have already cleared it up via PM. All is good! I rarely try to be combative or talk like that in real life, but I seem to do a better job there than on the interwebz on portraying my flippant demeanor.
Nonsense, your contrition involving such a benign statement is unwarranted. I likes me some "flippant demeanor" as it fits in so well with our times. What used to be called civility, is now called political correctness ... and there is nothing correct about politics.
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