Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1234 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36991 of 37607 Old 03-24-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Nonsense, your contrition involving such a benign statement is unwarranted. I likes me some "flippant demeanor" as it fits in so well with our times. What used to be called civility, is now called political correctness ... and there is nothing correct about politics.
Since we're blowing this thing ALL the way up...

I am in no way politically correct...was just pointing out that Beast may not have noticed that the dude's post was literally 1 minute after JP's...which is what ended up having transpired. Didn't appear malicious to me...just a dude spittin' some sass.
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post #36992 of 37607 Old 03-24-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Hi,

The PSA 210's and the JTR 228's were similar. The 228HT's I had were the 2014 model. Jeff has updated them several times since then. I think they now have more midbass, bigger waveguide and lower crossover. The PSA 210T's will go lower but I notice a harshness at really loud levels with some music (close to reference). It could be the room though.

The 210T's have a smaller waveguide and the crossover is higher (2k I think vs 850hz) so they would have different dispersion characteristics. I don't think you can go wrong with either though.
Thanks for the input. My 228HTs L & R are here! YAY ! Waiting to receive the center Existing Ascends will serve as surrounds for now.

I have a NOOB question about the power needed to drive the JTRs. I have the Yamaha RX V 779 AVR. Do I need to get additional amplifiers ? If so which ones?
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post #36993 of 37607 Old 03-24-2017, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SeanBWI View Post
Thanks for the input. My 228HTs L & R are here! YAY ! Waiting to receive the center Existing Ascends will serve as surrounds for now.

I have a NOOB question about the power needed to drive the JTRs. I have the Yamaha RX V 779 AVR. Do I need to get additional amplifiers ? If so which ones?
Plenty of guys run them with just receivers and are extremely happy. Just give them a try and see!
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post #36994 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post
For the amps for the JTR setup, I am leaning towards one Parasound A 51 and two A 31 amps.
One downside about these Parasound Ax1 amps is that they run fairly hot, due to the high bias AB. Getting 3 of them would give you pretty significant cooling requirements, which has it's own consequences. It's probably more practical to get a single A31 for LCR along with something more efficient for surrounds & heights.
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post #36995 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post
While most state both brands offer speakers are the very clear sounding with great detail, some have stated that the Seaton Sound offerings sound "veiled" and lacking detail. Here is one example where the user compared the 12C to a Genelec speaker: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...onitor-4897368

I don't want a veiled sounding speaker so I am a bit worried. I currently have the original (2002) model Klipsch RF-7, RC-7, and RS-7 (with a single 1000 watt SubMersive) speakers and want to setup up in output and sound quality. The reason I am leaning towards Seaton Sound is because you get the speaker + amp package which reduces the chances of user "induced" variations that could change the overall sound of the setup. Another reason is that some have stated that Seaton Sound is more refined than JTR.

Any input will be appreciated.
This is exactly where I felt the 212 + Parasound Ax1 + Dirac shine for me. The 212s are spectacularly clear and clean, with the Parasounds + Dirac, I love how they are both crystal clear and smooth - no trace of harshness, which is pretty stunning for all that detail.

I think it all is just adding up:
1) The compression driver in the 3-way JTRs is super-clean sounding, with amazing midrange and treble.
2) The controlled directivity of the horn keeps the sound off the walls, which contributes to clarity.
3) I felt that the Parasounds Ax1 combined with them in a way that was less harsh than other amps I tried, without sacrificing any detail. Surprisingly, I felt this was the case after room EQ with the same target curve. It was a subtle thing, so I wouldn't bet my life on it, but there you go. Maybe the ability to run in class A mode made the difference. I don't know.
4) With Dirac, I was able to fine tune the response curve to be exactly what I wanted. It turned out I wanted something pretty specific. There was actually a trick with this. I had to zoom in and drag the right "curtain" to get it to behave right and get that sound I wanted. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...ble-with-dirac

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post #36996 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
One downside about these Parasound Ax1 amps is that they run fairly hot, due to the high bias AB. Getting 3 of them would give you pretty significant cooling requirements, which has it's own consequences. It's probably more practical to get a single A31 for LCR along with something more efficient for surrounds & heights.
I fully concur. While I've never had them on my jtr's, a friend had an A51 and in his room (about 3000 ft^3) it was practically a space heater.
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post #36997 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 08:03 AM
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I fully concur. While I've never had them on my jtr's, a friend had an A51 and in his room (about 3000 ft^3) it was practically a space heater.
The JC1s I had would actually get painful to the touch. The A51 just gets warm. I guess it's shades of grey, but it does add up. Three of them is three times as much heat. I think it's worth it to get that sweetness in the LCRs. For surrounds and heights, not worth it. Just find something efficient that meets the power, ohm, and SNR requirements.
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post #36998 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post
I fully concur. While I've never had them on my jtr's, a friend had an A51 and in his room (about 3000 ft^3) it was practically a space heater.
I wish you'd try it, to let me know whether I'm crazy or not.
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post #36999 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post
I fully concur. While I've never had them on my jtr's, a friend had an A51 and in his room (about 3000 ft^3) it was practically a space heater.
My A21 sits on top of our cabinet with plenty of room to disperse any heat. It barely even gets warm when played all day. Our A51 sits inside the cabinet with the accompanying cooling fan seems to run constantly and causes it to get only warm also. I am lucky that I cannot hear the fan, but know that it is on as I put my hand up to it and feel it pushing out warm air even without signal running to it while it is on when listening to a lot of 2-channel music. I have considered moving my A51 on top of our cabinet also to see if that would help it run cooler without the need for any fan. The Parasound amps do sound great though and my research has led me to believe that it's probably the best bang for the buck out there. Probably the bottom of what would be considered hi-fi due to the class A bias at lower volumes. I like most am always trying to learn more and enjoy this hobby.
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post #37000 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 09:09 AM
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post #37001 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Advertising announcement: (3) JTR 212-LP speakers & 3 MBM's listed in the classifieds.

FS (3) JTR 212-LP Noesis Speakers

FS (3) Mid Bass Modules
210RT's or ?
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post #37002 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 12:15 PM
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210RT's or ?
Trying to decide between the Bose Premium Jewel Cube Series or the new JTR 212RT. What do you guys think? Go Bose?
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post #37003 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 01:55 PM
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Trying to decide between the Bose Premium Jewel Cube Series or the new JTR 212RT. What do you guys think? Go Bose?
It's about time someone around here had the cojones to say F it, I'm going Bose ...
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post #37004 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BassMojo View Post
The Parasound amps do sound great though and my research has led me to believe that it's probably the best bang for the buck out there.
Like I was saying before, they are pretty expensive at advertised prices, but actually pretty reasonable when you find a grey market source with a big markdown. I got mine a long time ago, and I don't have my own source, but I'm sure they're still out there.

Also, the "sounds great" part only applies to the Ax1 series. The Ax2 series doesn't have much power and the other amps are run of the mill.
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post #37005 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 02:19 PM
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Trying to decide between the Bose Premium Jewel Cube Series or the new JTR 212RT. What do you guys think? Go Bose?
You're going to make everyone jealous. Any other upgrades planned?

Selling the MBMs, are you going to a more conventional Atmos receiver?
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post #37006 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I think the passive vs active issue would be my biggest concern. As good as the amps may be, I have heard of amp failures with the Seatons and being as you are in Dubai, getting a replacement will require cost and logistics issues which make that risk a factor to be considered.
This is THE reason I stopped looking at Cats and will now be getting JTR 212RT when I buy later this summer. I have a SubM and can certainly attest to the quality of product that Seaton makes. But it can be exceedingly difficult to get a hold of Mark. Just take a brief look through the Seaton thread and you'll notice a repeating pattern of people unable to get a hold of Mark by any method (phone / email / PM) for an extensive period of time. The excuse for this is how busy he is as a one man shop with a great product. So you, as the consumer, need to decide if it's worth the risk.

I, for one, do not want to spend the amount of money I'm putting down to build a home theater - only to have it unusable for months at a time because one of the amps went out on a Catalyst speaker and now I have to deal with the hassle of getting it replaced - which, based on others feedback on AVS, is no easy or quick task.
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post #37007 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
You're going to make everyone jealous. Any other upgrades planned?

Selling the MBMs, are you going to a more conventional Atmos receiver?
Maybe later...taking it one step at a time. But it does give me a little more flexibility later on.
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post #37008 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 04:06 PM
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Also, the "sounds great" part only applies to the Ax1 series. The Ax2 series doesn't have much power and the other amps are run of the mill.
That is the exact reason that I held onto my 2205A and use four of the five channels for my ATMOS speakers. I may get another A51 in the future to replace the 2205A.
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post #37009 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
It's about time someone around here had the cojones to say F it, I'm going Bose ...
They could be mightly powerful if he just covered every square inch of his theater with them =)
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post #37010 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Also, the "sounds great" part only applies to the Ax1 series. The Ax2 series doesn't have much power and the other amps are run of the mill.
That is the exact reason that I held onto my 2205A and use four of the five channels for my ATMOS speakers. I may get another A51 in the future to replace the 2205A.
I think the 5125/5250 ones may be better suited for Atmos duty, since they are cheaper and more efficient than the A51 or 2205. They don't sound as nice as the A51, but it probably isn't worth the extra money and heat for Atmos. I think they may have better SNR than the 2205s, too. Of course, if you just want everything to match, I can understand that.
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post #37011 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I think the 5125/5250 ones may be better suited for Atmos duty, since they are cheaper and more efficient than the A51 or 2205. They don't sound as nice as the A51, but it probably isn't worth the extra money and heat for Atmos. I think they may have better SNR than the 2205s, too. Of course, if you just want everything to match, I can understand that.
Thanks for the suggestion. I would consider the 5250 instead of the 2205A for my Atmos duty. I just watched Hacksaw Ridge (great movie) and the 2205 got pretty warm where the A51 & A21 stayed luke warm at most.
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post #37012 of 37607 Old 03-25-2017, 11:47 PM
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Thanks for the suggestion. I would consider the 5250 instead of the 2205A for my Atmos duty. I just watched Hacksaw Ridge (great movie) and the 2205 got pretty warm where the A51 & A21 stayed luke warm at most.
Never mind. It looks like they don't even make those anymore. Well anyway, my remaining point is just to consider your AC capacity before getting a stack of A51s. There are lots of efficient amps out there that are fine for Atmos. If the heat and money aren't a concern, I'm sure that the A51 can do the job nicely.
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post #37013 of 37607 Old 03-26-2017, 09:31 AM
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Picked these bad boys up from carp today but haven't had a chance to play with them yet:

Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Stay tuned...
I ended up having the JTR 212HTs in my home theater for about three weeks. As a refresher, I usually run a 7.2.2 setup with all Dynaudio speakers. For those unfamiliar with Dyns, they are a little laid back. They don't lack for treble by any means, when a tracks calls for it, they shine, but they don't over-exaggerate the top end. The room is 16.5' wide x 17' long with 10' ceilings and is treated with numerous absorption and diffusion panels, along with corner bass traps. Finally, I'm a music-first kind of guy and use the room probably 60/40 in terms of music/movies.

I have an Anthem AVM 60 and I ran Anthem Room Correction (ARC) on the JTRs and subs (dual Rythmik F12s). Once done, I configured the various inputs so that room correction processing was off and just used bass management. The speakers were driven by a Parasound Halo A21. Below are the ARC measurement graphs of the uncorrected response without bass management applied - one thing to note is that Anthem limits room correction to a max EQ frequency of 5000 Hz and they only claim the mic is accurate to that point:





For comparison, the same measurements for my Dyns are in the following spoiler to avoid confusion:
Spoiler!


@Archaea took measurements with an Omnimic so hopefully he'll get those posted soon as well.

Anyway, initial setup took a little work to find proper placement (this was hampered a bit by my existing floor-standers) and toe-in. When it clicked, I found the 212s to have amazing imaging. I listened to an opera track that has four singers and two of them were placed just to the left and right of center - you could tell no one was directly in the center. And then the other two singers were just outside the middle two so basically at the quarter points between a speaker and dead center. Couple that with a full orchestra behind and wrapped around - it was pretty cool. Unfortunately it's not a great recording, quite a bit of hiss, and that really came through with the JTRs; I had to change to something else after maybe five minutes because it was so bad. As I listened to music I'm very familiar with, including Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Paul Simon, and Brand New, I found the 212s to be a little bright for my tastes but knocking the treble down a couple notches helped. Although the speakers never gave me that magical back-of-the-neck-tingly feeling, they never stepped out of line and did something to make me lose focus on the music. This is really important as I've had other speakers that would occasionally produce a sound that was just off and totally pull me out of the music - very annoying.

I know one of the main selling points of JTR speakers are high levels of distortion free output. Though I've experienced this in several other rooms around the KC area, I didn't put it to the test in my room as it's not that large and I like my hearing. And I have neighbors below me. I guess I did crank them a little more than usual on the song 'One' from Metallica Through The Never and they sounded quite good.

Last week, when @Archaea and @ChldsPlay stopped by, we pitted the JTRs against what I normally use for rear surrounds - Dynaudio Contour S1.4 bookshelf speakers. New, these speakers MSRP'd for around $3k which is pretty close to what the 212HTs run. I wish I had taken a picture of them on top of the JTRs because the size difference was pretty funny. I didn't have the treble knocked down that evening and again I found the JTRs a little too forward. After going back and forth between the two sets of speakers a few times, we decided to watch part of The Fourth Phase, a follow-up to Art of Flight. We did this with the JTRs as mains and kicked in the rest of the system for 5.2.2 Atmos (I didn't bother re-connecting the rear surrounds). I was surprised at how well the JTRs meshed with the rest of the system and I think if I was more of a movie person and had a larger room, I'd be happy running the 212HTs.

Last edited by cvinfig; 03-26-2017 at 09:34 AM.
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post #37014 of 37607 Old 03-27-2017, 10:16 AM
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I ended up having the JTR 212HTs in my home theater for about three weeks.....
Do you have any graphs or overlays of the uncorrected vs. corrected responses you got with ARC?

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post #37015 of 37607 Old 03-27-2017, 10:23 AM
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Do you have any graphs or overlays of the uncorrected vs. corrected responses you got with ARC?
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post #37016 of 37607 Old 03-27-2017, 11:02 AM
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Excellent thanks! It seems you don't use the rising curve option then on the arc? Actually, I see an ever so slight rise on the bottom, but not sure if that is intentional or not?

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post #37017 of 37607 Old 03-27-2017, 05:43 PM
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Excellent thanks! It seems you don't use the rising curve option then on the arc? Actually, I see an ever so slight rise on the bottom, but not sure if that is intentional or not?
I ran ARC last night and did bump up the room gain on one of the four profiles. The attached pic shows two target curves for my left front speaker. The top has no modifications to the parameters set by ARC and the second has the room gain adjusted to the max value. This is really the only adjustment that can be made that modifies the look of the target curve.

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post #37018 of 37607 Old 03-28-2017, 07:52 AM
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I ran ARC last night and did bump up the room gain on one of the four profiles. The attached pic shows two target curves for my left front speaker. The top has no modifications to the parameters set by ARC and the second has the room gain adjusted to the max value. This is really the only adjustment that can be made that modifies the look of the target curve.

Yep, that's what I was talking about. I'd be interested in your thoughts between the two profiles, especially matching your subs to each curve, where one would end up 4-5dB boosted over the other with that slight rise starting at just above 200hz. To my ears personally, the second boosted profile fills out the bottom end significantly more, and creates and much more "Robust" sound to the presentation. Looking forward to additional impressions.

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post #37019 of 37607 Old 03-28-2017, 08:16 AM
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Transitioning from 215s to ?

Re-posting/ summarizing from my sales thread as it's more appropriate here.

The JTR 215RTs/RM for LCR are the best speakers I've ever heard and am extremely sad to let them go. I purchased them from another AVS member thinking they would be my LCR for the dedicated theater room I had been planning to build. Unfortunately, my expansion proposal got rejected by my town (due to a wetland setback requirement) so a dedicated theater isn't going to happen in the near future.

The 215RTs are truly amazing for music in 2.0 and the set is equally impressive for movie use. The bass output from these are incredible; you can easily go without subs and not notice.

I am in the process of selling the 215s, bascially to appease WAF as they are a bit intimidating in my multi-purpose family room.

I've read through a ton of threads in the past few months and have been considering a few different things:

-Replacing my JTR 215 LCR with relatively smaller/ shorter speakers:

- DIYSG Titan-615LX
- DIYSG Maximus-12 LXE
- JBL 4722n with the 2453H-SL cd upgrade and Be diaphragms
- JTR 210RTs
- DIYSG Fusion-4 Quad-4 LR (That I already own) with phantom center to buy me some time to consider further

-Replacing all speakers (LCR, SR, SBR, SL, SBL) with JBL 708 or another "smaller form factor" speaker I could use all around.

-Replacing or supplementing my JTR Cap S1 with:

- 2-3 low-tuned, custom-sized DIY 18", 21" or 24" driver ported subs with a small footprint and tall cabinet
-A Deep Sea Sounds 24"Mariana, Side Table option
-A JTR S2 or Captivator 4000 ULF or 2x Captivator 1400s
-A Seaton F18 with two slave F18s


After several months of deliberating, on 3/24 I pulled the trigger on 3x JTR 210RT and a Captivator 4000ULF brand new from JTR. Jeff is a great guy who makes amazing products. I won't have the new speakers and sub for a couple weeks but I am already very happy and confident I made the right decision...
chucky7, dlbeck, RMK! and 4 others like this.

Buy my awesome gear so I can buy more awesome gear! ...please...
Will get around to listing soon, PM me if interested: 6 month old, barely used Crest Audio CC4000 Amplifier, Crown XTI 2002 Amplifier, MiniDSP 88a with BM Plugin upgrade (UMIK-1 not included), 6 month old, barely used Emotiva Basx A-500 Amplifier
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post #37020 of 37607 Old 03-28-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
After several months of deliberating, on 3/24 I pulled the trigger on 3x JTR 210RT and a Captivator 4000ULF brand new from JTR. Jeff is a great guy who makes amazing products. I won't have the new speakers and sub for a couple weeks but I am already very happy and confident I made the right decision...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
You're not messing around with the Cap 4000.
It will be interesting to hear how you feel the new setup compares.
I will report back when I have them set up for sure. I am certain I will not be disappointed but hold a very high bar after knowing what the 215s sound like in my space.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Nice! So what's the plan with no dedicated theater room? Drop down AT screen? 4000ulf behind seating?
I already have a Seymour Retractable Electric 137.7" with Center Stage XD installed that drops down in front of a 65" Panasonic Plasma (65VT60) in the family room, so will continue to use that. I have about 17.5" between the screen and built-in cabinets, so I will have the added placement options of fitting all 3 210RTs (with16.5" depth) behind the screen.. Will need to experiment to see how imaging and soundstage will be affected by having the speakers set up not as wide as how I have the 215s set up now.

I am not 100% certain on placement of 4000ULF, but yes, anywhere I put it, I expect to put part of the sectional right in front of it to "hide" it a bit. My initial thought is to put it back left corner along sidewall with drivers facing into that corner about 30" away. I'll post some pictures of the room later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I agree you made an excellent decision. I feel once you have true full range mains that moving away from them is near impossible. They are very nice option to have with no subs running. I don't know if I could ever move away now that I am used to it, and my JBL's have a similar tuning to the 210's.
Music in 2.0 coming from the 215RTs in pure direct, (No assistance from my Cap S1) sounds so incredible. I am definitely wondering if I will miss the extra extension the 215RTs have over the 38hz of the 210RTs. Also wondering how the soundstage will be affected going from two 15" drivers to two 10" drivers...

At the same time I am also VERY excited to experience the 4000ULF. Everyone has talked about the crazy amount of output, but two major things I am hoping for is:
1. Significantly higher tactile feeling even at the same volumes as before due to going from sealed to ported as well as having much more headroom at 10hz
2. Not losing any of the tight, precise bass qualities that I've experienced with the Cap S1 and formerly with Seaton Submersives

Buy my awesome gear so I can buy more awesome gear! ...please...
Will get around to listing soon, PM me if interested: 6 month old, barely used Crest Audio CC4000 Amplifier, Crown XTI 2002 Amplifier, MiniDSP 88a with BM Plugin upgrade (UMIK-1 not included), 6 month old, barely used Emotiva Basx A-500 Amplifier

Last edited by Ryansboston; 03-28-2017 at 08:46 AM.
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