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post #37021 of 37034 Old 03-28-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
After several months of deliberating, on 3/24 I pulled the trigger on 3x JTR 210RT and a Captivator 4000ULF brand new from JTR. Jeff is a great guy who makes amazing products. I won't have the new speakers and sub for a couple weeks but I am already very happy and confident I made the right decision...
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
You're not messing around with the Cap 4000.
It will be interesting to hear how you feel the new setup compares.
I will report back when I have them set up for sure. I am certain I will not be disappointed but hold a very high bar after knowing what the 215s sound like in my space.


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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Nice! So what's the plan with no dedicated theater room? Drop down AT screen? 4000ulf behind seating?
I already have a Seymour Retractable Electric 137.7" with Center Stage XD installed that drops down in front of a 65" Panasonic Plasma (65VT60) in the family room, so will continue to use that. I have about 17.5" between the screen and built-in cabinets, so I will have the added placement options of fitting all 3 210RTs (with16.5" depth) behind the screen.. Will need to experiment to see how imaging and soundstage will be affected by having the speakers set up not as wide as how I have the 215s set up now.

I am not 100% certain on placement of 4000ULF, but yes, anywhere I put it, I expect to put part of the sectional right in front of it to "hide" it a bit. My initial thought is to put it back left corner along sidewall with drivers facing into that corner about 30" away. I'll post some pictures of the room later.

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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I agree you made an excellent decision. I feel once you have true full range mains that moving away from them is near impossible. They are very nice option to have with no subs running. I don't know if I could ever move away now that I am used to it, and my JBL's have a similar tuning to the 210's.
Music in 2.0 coming from the 215RTs in pure direct, (No assistance from my Cap S1) sounds so incredible. I am definitely wondering if I will miss the extra extension the 215RTs have over the 38hz of the 210RTs. Also wondering how the soundstage will be affected going from two 15" drivers to two 10" drivers...

At the same time I am also VERY excited to experience the 4000ULF. Everyone has talked about the crazy amount of output, but two major things I am hoping for is:
1. Significantly higher tactile feeling even at the same volumes as before due to going from sealed to ported as well as having much more headroom at 10hz
2. Not losing any of the tight, precise bass qualities that I've experienced with the Cap S1 and formerly with Seaton Submersives

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Last edited by Ryansboston; 03-28-2017 at 08:46 AM.
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post #37022 of 37034 Old 03-28-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
Music in 2.0 coming from the 215RTs in pure direct, (No assistance from my Cap S1) sounds so incredible. I am definitely wondering if I will miss the extra extension the 215RTs have over the 38hz of the 210RTs. Also wondering how the soundstage will be affected going from two 15" drivers to two 10" drivers...

At the same time I am also VERY excited to experience the 4000ULF. Everyone has talked about the crazy amount of output, but two major things I am hoping for is:
1. Significantly higher tactile feeling even at the same volumes as before due to going from sealed to ported as well as having much more headroom at 10hz
2. Not losing any of the tight, precise bass qualities that I've experienced with the Cap S1 and formerly with Seaton Submersives
I am very much looking forward to your impressions on all fronts. #1 I can almost guarantee. #2 was the big concern that Andrew (Rilla) and I were looking to flesh out when we were demoing the unit in KC in the two rooms we heard it. We didn't come to a complete conclusion due to the fact that in neither space was the unit properly integrated with the mains via distance and EQ settings, but even without that, I felt it was darn close enough that I would never complain. It is my one and only concern still moving from a multi-sealed setup.
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post #37023 of 37034 Old 03-28-2017, 08:55 AM
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Cool @Ryansboston

Having heard the 210RT's at RMAF two years ago and owning the 215RT's I think you will be happy with this move. When I got to RMAF, Jeff and Michael (Desertdome) were running 5 of the 210RT's with a pair of Cap 1400's. I suggested running them full range for the music demos and they created a setup in JRiver for that. The results were very impressive and I remember thinking that if I were putting together a music priority system I would use the 210RT's. By adding the 4000, you have a system that can do it all. Really looking forward to your impressions.
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post #37024 of 37034 Old 03-28-2017, 08:09 PM
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Good to hear all the positive reviews of the 210RTs. I will know more in a few weeks but all signs are pointing to a relocation to the sunny state of FL somewhere around the Tampa area. Looking at homes in the communities of FL I have absolutely no idea how I could build a HT setup and not have the neighbors complaining. Looks like my entire HT will be up for sale soon, including 3 JTR 215RT, Marantz 7702MKiii, etc.

Not looking forward to the realistic possibility of never having a HT again. Hopefully I can have a nice, modest 2 channel setup and maybe the 210RT's will be the right fit. We will see!
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post #37025 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Not looking forward to the realistic possibility of never having a HT again. Hopefully I can have a nice, modest 2 channel setup and maybe the 210RT's will be the right fit. We will see!
If you are buying house , you could find one with a nice garage and build a " room inside of a room " . It would definitely help tame some of the sound if done right .

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post #37026 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
After several months of deliberating, on 3/24 I pulled the trigger on 3x JTR 210RT and a Captivator 4000ULF brand new from JTR. Jeff is a great guy who makes amazing products. I won't have the new speakers and sub for a couple weeks but I am already very happy and confident I made the right decision...
If you aren't going to receiving the speakers for a while, why did you go with the 210RT over the 212RT? Or is the 212RT not going to be available anytime soon?
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post #37027 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 09:01 AM
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Quick movie review (and reality check)

We watched Hidden Figures last night. Good movie but the sound track was an excellent vintage 1960's compilation of songs including some written and produced by Pharrell Williams. The emphasis was on the bass especially in the closing credits which were stunning in detail and articulation. Once again we just sat there during the closing credits in awe of the music we were hearing. Quite a testament to the cohesion and articulation of the LCR 215RT's run in full range mode.

For me, there is simply no possibility to upgrade the sound I heard last night.

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post #37028 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
If you aren't going to receiving the speakers for a while, why did you go with the 210RT over the 212RT? Or is the 212RT not going to be available anytime soon?
There's a pretty substantial size difference between the 212rt and 210rt. Both have an f3 of 38hz but the 212rt is (potentially) 6db more sensitive. So less amp and a larger horn seem to be the only benefits of which I'm aware. That said, I'm sure I'll ponder getting 212rt's to replace my 210's but I highly doubt it right now.
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post #37029 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
If you aren't going to receiving the speakers for a while, why did you go with the 210RT over the 212RT? Or is the 212RT not going to be available anytime soon?
Height and overall size. The whole reason I sold the 215RTs was due to WAF, them being too tall and initimidating in my family room. The 212RT is slated to be 58" tall; the 210RT is 43" tall. With the 210s being 43" tall, I can get away with running 3x 210RT instead of 2x210RT and a 210RM placed horizontally for center, and still have my TV not placed too high. I wanted to have the same exact speaker for LCR.

All that being said, I had asked Jeff about a 212RT a long time ago, so was definitely interested when he first announced it. However, I figured the layout would be more like the 210RT (TWW instead of WTW) which would have meant it being much shorter, probably just a few inches taller than the 210RT so that the center of the horn would be around ear height when seated. If that had been the case, I would have definitely gone with 3x212RTs...

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post #37030 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post
However, I figured the layout would be more like the 210RT (TWW instead of WTW) which would have meant it being much shorter, probably just a few inches taller than the 210RT so that the center of the horn would be around ear height when seated. If that had been the case, I would have definitely gone with 3x212RTs...
Yep. Right there with you Ryan.
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post #37031 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
*snip* I will know more in a few weeks but all signs are pointing to a relocation to the sunny state of FL somewhere around the Tampa area. Looking at homes in the communities of FL I have absolutely no idea how I could build a HT setup and not have the neighbors complaining. *snip*
There are larger lots available if you have the budget. Especially if you don't care about the school districts. I was looking a while back thinking I may be able to convince my wife to return to the area, but I doubt that's happening, and we have to care about schools and that drove prices up a lot.
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post #37032 of 37034 Old Yesterday, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cvinfig View Post
I ended up having the JTR 212HTs in my home theater for about three weeks. As a refresher, I usually run a 7.2.2 setup with all Dynaudio speakers. For those unfamiliar with Dyns, they are a little laid back. They don't lack for treble by any means, when a tracks calls for it, they shine, but they don't over-exaggerate the top end. The room is 16.5' wide x 17' long with 10' ceilings and is treated with numerous absorption and diffusion panels, along with corner bass traps. Finally, I'm a music-first kind of guy and use the room probably 60/40 in terms of music/movies.

I have an Anthem AVM 60 and I ran Anthem Room Correction (ARC) on the JTRs and subs (dual Rythmik F12s). Once done, I configured the various inputs so that room correction processing was off and just used bass management. The speakers were driven by a Parasound Halo A21. Below are the ARC measurement graphs of the uncorrected response without bass management applied - one thing to note is that Anthem limits room correction to a max EQ frequency of 5000 Hz and they only claim the mic is accurate to that point:





For comparison, the same measurements for my Dyns are in the following spoiler to avoid confusion:
Spoiler!


@Archaea took measurements with an Omnimic so hopefully he'll get those posted soon as well.

Anyway, initial setup took a little work to find proper placement (this was hampered a bit by my existing floor-standers) and toe-in. When it clicked, I found the 212s to have amazing imaging. I listened to an opera track that has four singers and two of them were placed just to the left and right of center - you could tell no one was directly in the center. And then the other two singers were just outside the middle two so basically at the quarter points between a speaker and dead center. Couple that with a full orchestra behind and wrapped around - it was pretty cool. Unfortunately it's not a great recording, quite a bit of hiss, and that really came through with the JTRs; I had to change to something else after maybe five minutes because it was so bad. As I listened to music I'm very familiar with, including Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Paul Simon, and Brand New, I found the 212s to be a little bright for my tastes but knocking the treble down a couple notches helped. Although the speakers never gave me that magical back-of-the-neck-tingly feeling, they never stepped out of line and did something to make me lose focus on the music. This is really important as I've had other speakers that would occasionally produce a sound that was just off and totally pull me out of the music - very annoying.

I know one of the main selling points of JTR speakers are high levels of distortion free output. Though I've experienced this in several other rooms around the KC area, I didn't put it to the test in my room as it's not that large and I like my hearing. And I have neighbors below me. I guess I did crank them a little more than usual on the song 'One' from Metallica Through The Never and they sounded quite good.

Last week, when @Archaea and @ChldsPlay stopped by, we pitted the JTRs against what I normally use for rear surrounds - Dynaudio Contour S1.4 bookshelf speakers. New, these speakers MSRP'd for around $3k which is pretty close to what the 212HTs run. I wish I had taken a picture of them on top of the JTRs because the size difference was pretty funny. I didn't have the treble knocked down that evening and again I found the JTRs a little too forward. After going back and forth between the two sets of speakers a few times, we decided to watch part of The Fourth Phase, a follow-up to Art of Flight. We did this with the JTRs as mains and kicked in the rest of the system for 5.2.2 Atmos (I didn't bother re-connecting the rear surrounds). I was surprised at how well the JTRs meshed with the rest of the system and I think if I was more of a movie person and had a larger room, I'd be happy running the 212HTs.
I apologize for the long delay in getting these posted. I was out of town this weekend, and have been working in the evenings to get a pool removed from the yard. I currently have the 212HT speakers, but haven't gotten to spend that much time listening to them. Tomorrow night @d_c is coming over to listen to them with me so we may have some impressions and measurements from my room to share then. In the meantime these are the measurements of the 212HT as we measured them in Chuck's room with the Omnimic. I used an average of 10 captures from the MLP. 1/6 smoothing was utlized. We didn't have a mic stand that fit the omnimic handy - so i just held the mic while track 6 and 12 played and I took the FR. One set of measurements is with Chuck's subs, the other is without --- with the 212HT in Pure Direct mode equivalent.

I've also attached the .frd files for anyone interested (@desertdome).

With and Without Subs - 10hz to 20Khz


Pure direct mode, no subs - 50hz to 20Khz.


Chuck's room bass decay - just for fun



As to my subjective impressions. I liked both speakers for different reasons. I too thought the JTR were a little brighter than I subjectively most prefer in Chuck's room, and frankly I'm finding the same thing so far in my room --- in the little bit of listening I've been able to do. On the other hand --- they have that big huge soundstage that I love from the 2014 and older JTR 212 that I'm more familiar with (that carp owned, that I had in my room for a time, and that jedimastergrant owns now) I'm referring to that full wall of sound --- where two speakers produce a soundstage so big you'd think Dolby Surround is on. It really is a fantastic soundstage. In contrast to the JTR, Chuck's speakers seemed more laid back and less aggressive or forward -- easier to listen to if you will. We listened to a Disturbed live track from Conan where the Sound of Silence was covered. We listened on both speakers and I thought the beginning of the song was better on the JTR, and the later part of the song was better on the dynaudio -- and so it went -- some songs I preferred on one set of speakers, other on the other. Another positive for the JTR was that the huge soundstage seems to be really good off center MLP too. So if you are in the seat to the left or right of the center when listening to stereo music it still sounds excellent. I thought they did very well in that regard. I think for my preferences I'd use a bit of EQ to tame the "bright" a wee bit. I disklike the generic treble and bass controls on modern AVRs, or weaksauce 5 band PEQ under manual EQ on my Denon and Onkyos. Wouldn't it be nice to have one of those 31 Band EQ's hooked up and dial the speaker into your own subjective perfection -- and just see what that is. (is it a smiley face eq? vs flat? )

I should be able to get some measurements tomorrow night in my room with Doug, and share some more info on the 212HT in the next couple days.

Thanks for letting this stuff make the rounds in KC, Jeff. It's been fun to have the opportunity to play with the gear after the KC Crawl in Feb.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	JTR Speakers - 212HT - Omnimic 1-6 smoothing - JTR sans subs (direct mode) in cvinfig room.png
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Name:	JTR Speakers - 212HT - Omnimic 1-6 smoothing in cvinfig room.png
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Attached Files
File Type: zip Chucks Omnimic.zip (33.4 KB, 7 views)
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February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl

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post #37033 of 37034 Old Today, 05:08 AM
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Cap S2 Questions

Hey All,

I recently got a Cap S2 and had a few (perhaps noob) questions.

- Is there a rule of thumb as to how hard I can drive this? Eventually I'd like to get duals because I am running it in an open living room but for now I am stuck with 1. So far I've run Audyssey XT32 and bumped the sub up 5db from there. Its doing pretty well but would still like more output. How hot can I run this sub without damaging it? Is there an easy way to tell when you've gone beyond the limit?

- When the sub is sitting idle and everything is off in the system (sub power on automatic), I can heard it randomly switching between on and standby during the day. Any idea what could be causing this? Perhaps some interference in my signal path?

Thanks everyone
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post #37034 of 37034 Unread Today, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GT666GT View Post
Hey All,

I recently got a Cap S2 and had a few (perhaps noob) questions.

- Is there a rule of thumb as to how hard I can drive this? Eventually I'd like to get duals because I am running it in an open living room but for now I am stuck with 1. So far I've run Audyssey XT32 and bumped the sub up 5db from there. Its doing pretty well but would still like more output. How hot can I run this sub without damaging it? Is there an easy way to tell when you've gone beyond the limit?

- When the sub is sitting idle and everything is off in the system (sub power on automatic), I can heard it randomly switching between on and standby during the day. Any idea what could be causing this? Perhaps some interference in my signal path?

Thanks everyone
It should have protection circuitry built in. As long as it's not making strange noises, you should be okay. To be careful, it wouldn't hurt to turn it up slowly, and have your finger on the volume, so if/when you find the limit, you can turn it down quickly.

Can you hear any buzzing on the sub? If so, you could have some kind of ground loop problem.
Otherwise, you can try experimenting with turning the sub gain knob up/down and counteracting that with the receiver gain. That will help get the noise floor and auto-power in the right place, assuming it's not a hardware or ground loop problem. One thing to watch out for, though, is that turning the gain up too loud on your receiver can cause output clipping.
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