Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1249 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37441 of 37484 Old 05-16-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
2. Anyone can chime in hear and please do so. Have you noticed over time the BMS4593 compression driver becoming better/sweeter/more refined over time and break in?
Your set of 215RT's already had at least 30 hrs on them prior to shipping since they were played at AXPONA. Any break-in is typically for the woofers which will change as the spider is softened. Dan Wiggins (founder of Adire Audio and inventor of XBL2 motor) said this about their woofers:

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The biggest reason there is a break-in period for drivers is the spider. The spider - for those who don't know - is a piece of cloth, permanent pressed, and dipped in epoxy. When you break in a driver, you introduce micro-cracks throughout the epoxy, which will make the spider softer.

ALL mechanical systems will wear and all mechanical springs will get softer; in this case, it's by design. You break/crack a lot of the epoxy bonds (phenolics are used as well) that permeate the spider, and thus it becomes softer.

We often see a 20% drop in Fs over a lengthy break-in, and we quote numbers for drivers broken in. Out of the box all our drivers measure high; beat on them for 40-50 hours, though, and they will be permanently lowered (Fs, that is).

One thing to note is that it would be expected Fs would drop, Qes and Qts would drop, and Vas would increase; all these are exactly what happens when you raise Cms, which is the same thing as making the spider softer.
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post #37442 of 37484 Old 05-16-2017, 01:20 PM
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Is there any difference in sound quality and/or output between the regular sized S8s and the low-profile S8s?
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post #37443 of 37484 Old 05-16-2017, 01:36 PM
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Is there any difference in sound quality and/or output between the regular sized S8s and the low-profile S8s?
No. And stop worrying about output on ANY of the JTR mains (read every offering that is NOT a sub). Im serious. You will tap out way before any of these speakers will, even in a larger sized room.
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post #37444 of 37484 Old 05-16-2017, 02:57 PM
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@jlpowell84 it won't be the speakers that are breaking in as much as YOU are the one being broke in by the speakers... Your mind takes time to adjust, and your ears will recalibrate far more than that dual pragm will.
Yea I should have added that part too. Audio is so weird lol...

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post #37445 of 37484 Old 05-16-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I have switched back and forth and the problem area, harshness, buzzing/resonating type effect seems to be excited with Audyssey.
You said this vanished when you were outside, right?

If you have opposite untreated walls on both sides of your head in some direction (X,Y,Z) the room could be ringing.

One time I was at my brother's house with his little dog yapping in the hallway, and the ringing almost made my head explode.

Any luck with Dirac?
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post #37446 of 37484 Old 05-16-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
You said this vanished when you were outside, right?

If you have opposite untreated walls on both sides of your head in some direction (X,Y,Z) the room could be ringing.

One time I was at my brother's house with his little dog yapping in the hallway, and the ringing almost made my head explode.

Any luck with Dirac?
Havn't made to Dirac yet. Was stomach sick yesterday. Today made a rando Chiropractor visit, then several errands with selling the house (title co, tax man, scheduling stuff to be done...

I should take pics of my room lol! The closed side has seven 4" thick panels and two 15x15x48 soffit style bass traps. Vaulted ceilings are untreated still though but it sounds better. It's only a little more than a month left here...Amps will be interesting...

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post #37447 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 03:02 PM
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Here's a picture of my front wall. The stands were built by Jeff, no center stand as the Cap S2 serves that purpose with a pair of Auralex MoPAD-XL for a slight angle.

228HT (Late 2013 Model)
Captivator S2
L/R Stands (24" Height)
Panasonic VT50 55"
Speaking of my room, I haven't made any changes since adding some GIK panels back in April 2015. The room started with the front wall JTR setup in January 2014 and the DIYSG Volt V10 surrounds were added in June 2014.

I always intended to have Slanted 8HT (or Slanted 8HT-LP) eventually, but was thinking I'd wait for a future move / new room. Not sure when that will happen, so I may pull the trigger now.

Would it be a noticeable upgrade over the Volt V10 surrounds to go to the Slanted 8HT-LP? Keep in mind my room is not ideal, and only ~900 ft^3. Layout is attached.
Any other input on the practical benefits of the Slanted 8HT-LPs for my particular room / setup?
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post #37448 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 04:13 PM
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Any other input on the practical benefits of the Slanted 8HT-LPs for my particular room / setup?
Well I havn't heard the S8's before. But everyone who does says it's a definite noticeable betterment of SQ/experience. And they have measured 15db better output before compression so transient peaks undistorted should have an edge. I would like to go S8's when the time comes even in spite of needing 8 for surround Atmos. Now Volts are not total trash by any means, the coaxial design and dispersion pattern, just like S8's, are perfect for an surround/Atmos. But a lower/midline BMS CD should out do the $15 Denovo-D150 the Volt has in SQ and clarity. The Volt does use a nice Eminence woofer...

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post #37449 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 04:14 PM
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So there are a few Cherry Maraschino owners out there right? I know DD and Jeff have some, who else?

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post #37450 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post
Any other input on the practical benefits of the Slanted 8HT-LPs for my particular room / setup?
I'm using the Slanted 8HT-LP for surrounds and front on-wall Atmos. Rear Atmos are in-cleiling previously installed when we bought our house. Front stage LCR is 228HTRs with a Cap 1400 to round out the bottom. I am extremely happy with all our JTRs and would highly recommend them to anyone. The Slanted 8s have not problem keeping up with the 228HTRs.

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post #37451 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 07:14 PM
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I'm using the Slanted 8HT-JP for surrounds and front on-wall Atmos. Rear Atmos are in-cleiling previously installed when we bought our house. Front stage LCR is 228HTRs with a Cap 1400 to round out the bottom. I am extremely happy with all our JTRs and would highly recommend them to anyone. The Slanted 8s have not problem keeping up with the 228HTRs.
Thats a really nice complete system
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post #37452 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 08:05 PM
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Thats a really nice complete system
Thanks, if you end up coming to Sacramento for @RMK! 's mention of a GTG, I would be happy to participate and welcome any improvement recomendation(s). I've contracted the JTR Upgradeitus disease with all of Jeff's stellar products. I almost constantly fantasize about three 212RTs (or 215RTs) if my next house would accommodate, adding another 228HTR for surround (with the other three completing side and and rear surround speakers) and using the Slanted 8HT-LPs for ceiling Atmos. Then I guess that I'd need at least one more Cap 1400 or go all-in on a pair of Cap 4000s. I can always dream.
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post #37453 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 08:34 PM
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So there are a few Cherry Maraschino owners out there right? I know DD and Jeff have some, who else?
Have you looked at the ATI Hypex n core amps? I have heard good things, too expensive for me, but if I had the coin they would be the next amp I try.

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post #37454 of 37484 Old 05-17-2017, 11:15 PM
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Thanks, if you end up coming to Sacramento for @RMK! 's mention of a GTG, I would be happy to participate and welcome any improvement recomendation(s). I've contracted the JTR Upgradeitus disease with all of Jeff's stellar products. I almost constantly fantasize about three 212RTs (or 215RTs) if my next house would accommodate, adding another 228HTR for surround (with the other three completing side and and rear surround speakers) and using the Slanted 8HT-LPs for ceiling Atmos. Then I guess that I'd need at least one more Cap 1400 or go all-in on a pair of Cap 4000s. I can always dream.
If I were you I would focus on more woofage. 228HTR has flagship CD right?
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post #37455 of 37484 Old 05-18-2017, 12:49 AM
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Have you looked at the ATI Hypex n core amps? I have heard good things, too expensive for me, but if I had the coin they would be the next amp I try.

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You seen the Nord Acoustics comments I made recently? Def a cost effective way to Hypex N core Amps. You can get the NC502MP x3 channels bridged custom amp for over 1kw power for 2k Euro. I also priced out an 8 channel surround Atmos amp at 250 watts @8ohms for 2k Euro with the NC252MP.

I am going to try some Digital Amplifier Company Golden Cherry Amps here soon Fun times like Christmas
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post #37456 of 37484 Old 05-18-2017, 08:28 AM
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If I were you I would focus on more woofage. 228HTR has flagship CD right?
I like your thinking regarding more wooferage. I was originally planning to get the Cap 4000, and even had my wife on board, but could not fit it into our multi-purpose living room. I bought the maximum that our room could accommodate in all aspects. From what I understand, the 228HTRs have the same CDs as the other HTR and RT lines. That was my thinking when decided to go with the HTR over the HT. I am extremely pleased with their performance.
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post #37457 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 07:43 AM
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I like your thinking regarding more wooferage. I was originally planning to get the Cap 4000, and even had my wife on board, but could not fit it into our multi-purpose living room. I bought the maximum that our room could accommodate in all aspects. From what I understand, the 228HTRs have the same CDs as the other HTR and RT lines. That was my thinking when decided to go with the HTR over the HT. I am extremely pleased with their performance.
I could be wrong here, but I believe the compression driver isn't the same across all the HTR/RT lines. Im pretty sure the 215 and possibly others have a larger driver, but the specs are pretty close. The horn size also impacts the cross over point between the CD and woofers.

Ignore as I remember wrong

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post #37458 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 07:59 AM
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I could be wrong here, but I believe the compression driver isn't the same across all the HTR/RT lines. Im pretty sure the 215 and possibly others have a larger driver, but the specs are pretty close. The horn size also impacts the cross over point between the CD and woofers.
The HTR, RM and RT have the same compression driver.
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post #37459 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 08:16 AM
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The HTR, RM and RT have the same compression driver.
So was I at least right on the horn size affecting the CD/Woofer cross-over point or is my hung over morning just getting worse =)
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post #37460 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 08:18 PM
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So there are a few Cherry Maraschino owners out there right? I know DD and Jeff have some, who else?
I dunno, I just can't take that company seriously lol. I have a friend's who's dad has a set. They were like 10$ CDN and he runs a set of martin Logan 3.7i and they run out of steam so quick. I know the Maggie's are power hungry but even my old ncores 400s have more steam.
Once you get over a 3-4k for the price of an amp, you are paying for such small percentages of improvement, your money is much better off being spent elsewhere (IMO of course)

You just gotta put your foot down and pick something and stick with it lol. No matter what you end up with, it's gonna be great man! Don't over think it all.

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post #37461 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 09:04 PM
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^^^ Yup

Just finished a solo little too long, little too loud session in the HT revisiting Roger Waters The Wall in Atmos. Heads a little foggy but damn that was a some amazing sound.
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post #37462 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 09:23 PM
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I dunno, I just can't take that company seriously lol. I have a friend's who's dad has a set. They were like 10$ CDN and he runs a set of martin Logan 3.7i and they run out of steam so quick. I know the Maggie's are power hungry but even my old ncores 400s have more steam.
Once you get over a 3-4k for the price of an amp, you are paying for such small percentages of improvement, your money is much better off being spent elsewhere (IMO of course)

You just gotta put your foot down and pick something and stick with it lol. No matter what you end up with, it's gonna be great man! Don't over think it all.
3.7i's are 86db sens which is a good bit less. The 215RT is 100-102db sens as measured by Ricci from 44hz-135hz then trails down to 90db by 20hz. So the 215RT bass section is actually amazingly efficient. @desertdome could chime in with output numbers but it was plenty. I may end up missing some of the transient peaks in low the ULF region but I have tons of woofage! I also am thinking of swooping up the Nord Acoustics custom Hypex NC502MP bridged amp for over 1kw power...

Ncore 400 having more output than a Cherry Maraschino 400 I would have to see bench tests to be convinced about that Fun times to try diff gear.

Do you know what EXACT models friends dad has?

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post #37463 of 37484 Old 05-20-2017, 09:24 PM
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^^^ Yup

Just finished a solo little too long, little too loud session in the HT revisiting Roger Waters The Wall in Atmos. Heads a little foggy but damn that was a some amazing sound.
Won't be too long till I get to hear it! We close June 27th...

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post #37464 of 37484 Old 05-21-2017, 08:10 AM
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3.7i's are 86db sens which is a good bit less. The 215RT is 100-102db sens as measured by Ricci from 44hz-135hz then trails down to 90db by 20hz. So the 215RT bass section is actually amazingly efficient. @desertdome could chime in with output numbers but it was plenty. I may end up missing some of the transient peaks in low the ULF region but I have tons of woofage! I also am thinking of swooping up the Nord Acoustics custom Hypex NC502MP bridged amp for over 1kw power...

Ncore 400 having more output than a Cherry Maraschino 400 I would have to see bench tests to be convinced about that Fun times to try diff gear.

Do you know what EXACT models friends dad has?
It's the cherry monoblocks, not the ultra ones. He's got 5 of them, im pretty sure they are around 3-4 years old. He paid 10k CDN for the lot from some dude is Texas.

Edit: you also realize that a bridged ncore like mine will do over 800 watts into 4ohms and are stable into 2ohms and will hold close to 1100 watts...... So not sure why you can't believe it would have more power than the cherries.

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post #37465 of 37484 Old 05-21-2017, 08:48 AM
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Just to throw another amp into the mix, a fellow AVS'er found this amp from Lab Gruppen to be a great fit for his speakers.

http://labgruppen.com/view-model/ipd-series/ipd-2400
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post #37466 of 37484 Old 05-21-2017, 09:45 AM
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It's the cherry monoblocks, not the ultra ones. He's got 5 of them, im pretty sure they are around 3-4 years old. He paid 10k CDN for the lot from some dude is Texas.

Edit: you also realize that a bridged ncore like mine will do over 800 watts into 4ohms and are stable into 2ohms and will hold close to 1100 watts...... So not sure why you can't believe it would have more power than the cherries.


I think we had a mix in info here Part of it mine and knowledge on the NC400 as most of my research was on the NC500, NC502MP modules. I thought the NC400 was 400 watts output ASSUMED by my 500 module research on output. Other part is i don't remember BRIDGED comments. I suspected a single nc400 module which we have established I was kindly wrong on with specs

The stats I mentioned on the 215RT's sens #'s make it very easy to power. I can't remember the exact output numbers DD said but it was 120 at least I remember from the 60v King Cherries he has. Step up the capacitance on the Golden model and I juts don't see any issues getting loud SPL from the 215/Cherry amp combo besides transient peaks in ULF and some ULF output. I may end up crossing anyways for movies though...
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post #37467 of 37484 Old 05-21-2017, 09:48 AM
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Just to throw another amp into the mix, a fellow AVS'er found this amp from Lab Gruppen to be a great fit for his speakers.

http://labgruppen.com/view-model/ipd-series/ipd-2400
Looks like a good amp and LG makes top notch stuff. But I want a lower noise floor going after a low noise floor theater room.

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post #37468 of 37484 Old 05-21-2017, 11:18 AM
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Looks like a good amp and LG makes top notch stuff. But I want a lower noise floor going after a low noise floor theater room.
What are some of the spec numbers you are actually looking for in an amp for your new room.
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post #37469 of 37484 Old 05-21-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post


I think we had a mix in info here Part of it mine and knowledge on the NC400 as most of my research was on the NC500, NC502MP modules. I thought the NC400 was 400 watts output ASSUMED by my 500 module research on output. Other part is i don't remember BRIDGED comments. I suspected a single nc400 module which we have established I was kindly wrong on with specs

The stats I mentioned on the 215RT's sens #'s make it very easy to power. I can't remember the exact output numbers DD said but it was 120 at least I remember from the 60v King Cherries he has. Step up the capacitance on the Golden model and I juts don't see any issues getting loud SPL from the 215/Cherry amp combo besides transient peaks in ULF and some ULF output. I may end up crossing anyways for movies though...
Ya, that makes sense. I wasn't sure what amps he had, I had to call him this morning lol.

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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
What are some of the spec numbers you are actually looking for in an amp for your new room.
111-112db SNR minimum. I don't want even the faintest humm, pure black background for amazing beauty in dynamics. THD+N will be good enough in any amp I considered (already bought the Cherries). I can't prove anything but will play around with measuring but an extended frequency response @rcohen has mentioned with the BMS cd having a response out to 24khz. In theory it makes sense as an amp board with a 20khz filter could mess with the upper end, again theory but why not get an amp that has extended response? Some things getting into the deep hole are DC coupling and non phase shifting in bass frequencies. cheaper amps can have minor phase shifting. Another no one really understands is switching frequency and filtering feedback. It gets really technical and things I'm still learning. Nothing I'm talking about here is 'Audiofoolery' but actual electrical engineering science. Most amps simply filter feedback round and round until it is generally un audible and measures well in this day of oogling over specs.

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