Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1250 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37471 of 37492 Old 05-21-2017, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
111-112db SNR minimum. I don't want even the faintest humm, pure black background for amazing beauty in dynamics. THD+N will be good enough in any amp I considered (already bought the Cherries). I can't prove anything but will play around with measuring but an extended frequency response @rcohen has mentioned with the BMS cd having a response out to 24khz. In theory it makes sense as an amp board with a 20khz filter could mess with the upper end, again theory but why not get an amp that has extended response? Some things getting into the deep hole are DC coupling and non phase shifting in bass frequencies. cheaper amps can have minor phase shifting. Another no one really understands is switching frequency and filtering feedback. It gets really technical and things I'm still learning. Nothing I'm talking about here is 'Audiofoolery' but actual electrical engineering science. Most amps simply filter feedback round and round until it is generally un audible and measures well in this day of oogling over specs.
It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, whether it's romantic adjectives or electrical engineering.
I'm pretty sure I can't do it. My track purchasing track record is too spotty to claim otherwise, but it's fun to try.

When I read you getting excited about the Hypex tech talk, it reminds me of my past mistakes, but I'm sure the Cherries will work out awesome for you.

With this A51 that I like so much with the 212s, it makes me wonder if I'm responding so well to the presence of distortion or the lack of distortion. After all, real life doesn't give me chills like listening to it. <shrug>
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post #37472 of 37492 Old 05-22-2017, 04:23 AM
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Finally getting the room to an almost usable state... JTR-gasum shots:


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post #37473 of 37492 Old 05-22-2017, 05:23 AM
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Looks amazing!

Mike

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post #37474 of 37492 Old 05-22-2017, 05:46 AM
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Looks amazing!

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I think it kinda looks like a Captain's bridge of a starship. LOL
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post #37475 of 37492 Old 05-22-2017, 07:03 AM
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Finally getting the room to an almost usable state... JTR-gasum shots:


That is an awesome space. Well done!

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post #37476 of 37492 Old 05-22-2017, 02:52 PM
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Well done SOWK, sure it sounds amazing!

How you liking the 4000ULF's? Where did you end up placing them?

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post #37477 of 37492 Old 05-23-2017, 05:50 AM
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Well done SOWK, sure it sounds amazing!

How you liking the 4000ULF's? Where did you end up placing them?
Right behind the left and right mains facing towards the outer walls.

Not aesthetically pleasing. But that's where they measured the best. Will be doing a complete calibration this weekend and finally get a chance to sit and listen to them in real world material.
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post #37478 of 37492 Old 05-23-2017, 10:06 AM
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Hi everyone,

We're doing a home theatre build, and have pretty much decided on getting JTR speakers.

After reading through this forum, I've decided on the following speakers:
  • Front left / right: 212htr (x2)
  • Centre: 228htr
  • Surround left/right: 8HT-lp (x2)
  • Surround back left/right: Slanted 8HT (x2)
  • On ceilings: Single 8HT-lp x 2
  • Subs: Captivator 1400 x 2
The room is approximately 14.75' x 19' x 8.5'


We're going to be spending a lot of money on these speakers, and are a bit wary of plopping down so much cash without auditioning them. Is there anybody remotely close to Toronto, Ontario, Canada who would be willing to let us come over for a listen? I'd be really, really grateful for any help with this. I wouldn't mind traveling a bit too, even to another nearby province in Canada if necessary (but preferably not to the US).


Also, what do you guys think about the speakers for the room size? We have a home theatre consultant helping us more with the aesthetic side of the build, and he is insisting that these speakers are way overkill for the room and that we won't be able to appreciate them at normal listening volumes. My research on this forum seems to be telling me otherwise, but what do you guys think?


We're adding in over $10,000 of extra soundproofing costs to accommodate these speakers so I'd be super grateful for any input anyone has on these, and if someone would be willing to let me come over for a listen I'd be eternally grateful!



Thanks so much!!
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post #37479 of 37492 Old 05-23-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
Hi everyone,

We're doing a home theatre build, and have pretty much decided on getting JTR speakers.

After reading through this forum, I've decided on the following speakers:
  • Front left / right: 212htr (x2)
  • Centre: 228htr
  • Surround left/right: 8HT-lp (x2)
  • Surround back left/right: Slanted 8HT (x2)
  • On ceilings: Single 8HT-lp x 2
  • Subs: Captivator 1400 x 2
The room is approximately 14.75' x 19' x 8.5'


We're going to be spending a lot of money on these speakers, and are a bit wary of plopping down so much cash without auditioning them. Is there anybody remotely close to Toronto, Ontario, Canada who would be willing to let us come over for a listen? I'd be really, really grateful for any help with this. I wouldn't mind traveling a bit too, even to another nearby province in Canada if necessary (but preferably not to the US).


Also, what do you guys think about the speakers for the room size? We have a home theatre consultant helping us more with the aesthetic side of the build, and he is insisting that these speakers are way overkill for the room and that we won't be able to appreciate them at normal listening volumes. My research on this forum seems to be telling me otherwise, but what do you guys think?

We're adding in over $10,000 of extra soundproofing costs to accommodate these speakers so I'd be super grateful for any input anyone has on these, and if someone would be willing to let me come over for a listen I'd be eternally grateful!

Thanks so much!!
Hi,

I can't help you with the audition aspect of your post, but I do have a couple of thoughts, for what they are worth. First, I would go with identical speakers for the front soundstage if I were you. You are already configuring your center channel vertically, so why not match all three for optimum blending and imaging?

Second, I think that in that room size, the 228's would give you plenty of mid-bass SPL. And, with dual Cap 1400's, you are probably going to cross them at 80Hz. I would either get three 212's or three 228's and I think that I would lean toward three 228's in that size room.

Third, unless your consultant's idea of what constitutes a normal listening volume happens to coincide with your own, I'm not sure that he is in a position to say what constitutes overkill. I would generally prefer to have too much capability rather than too little, and your room treatments will help to attenuate your SPL by about 3db, anyway. So, I don't see anything at all wrong with what you are planning, absent the reservations expressed in the first two paragraphs.

Regards,
Mike
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post #37480 of 37492 Old 05-23-2017, 11:23 AM
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post #37481 of 37492 Old 05-23-2017, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
Hi everyone,

We're doing a home theatre build, and have pretty much decided on getting JTR speakers.

After reading through this forum, I've decided on the following speakers:
  • Front left / right: 212htr (x2)
  • Centre: 228htr
  • Surround left/right: 8HT-lp (x2)
  • Surround back left/right: Slanted 8HT (x2)
  • On ceilings: Single 8HT-lp x 2
  • Subs: Captivator 1400 x 2
The room is approximately 14.75' x 19' x 8.5'


We're going to be spending a lot of money on these speakers, and are a bit wary of plopping down so much cash without auditioning them. Is there anybody remotely close to Toronto, Ontario, Canada who would be willing to let us come over for a listen? I'd be really, really grateful for any help with this. I wouldn't mind traveling a bit too, even to another nearby province in Canada if necessary (but preferably not to the US).


Also, what do you guys think about the speakers for the room size? We have a home theatre consultant helping us more with the aesthetic side of the build, and he is insisting that these speakers are way overkill for the room and that we won't be able to appreciate them at normal listening volumes. My research on this forum seems to be telling me otherwise, but what do you guys think?


We're adding in over $10,000 of extra soundproofing costs to accommodate these speakers so I'd be super grateful for any input anyone has on these, and if someone would be willing to let me come over for a listen I'd be eternally grateful!



Thanks so much!!
I assume the reason you're going with a smaller Center Channel (CC) is due to using a flat screen TV or, if you are going front projection, you will not be doing an AT screen. In that case, I think the suggestion of 3 228HTR's for LCR is a good one. That said, I don't think the 212/228 front stage would cause much of a mismatch as all the JTR's sound similar in the frequencies that matter due to using the same compression driver. So I say good call on the speakers and welcome to hi resolution Home Theater. There's no going back ...

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Does my room make me look like a JTR (w)hore? LOL
Yeah, but you're in good company ...
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post #37482 of 37492 Old 05-23-2017, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
Hi everyone,

We're doing a home theatre build, and have pretty much decided on getting JTR speakers.

After reading through this forum, I've decided on the following speakers:
  • Front left / right: 212htr (x2)
  • Centre: 228htr
  • Surround left/right: 8HT-lp (x2)
  • Surround back left/right: Slanted 8HT (x2)
  • On ceilings: Single 8HT-lp x 2
  • Subs: Captivator 1400 x 2
The room is approximately 14.75' x 19' x 8.5'


We're going to be spending a lot of money on these speakers, and are a bit wary of plopping down so much cash without auditioning them. Is there anybody remotely close to Toronto, Ontario, Canada who would be willing to let us come over for a listen? I'd be really, really grateful for any help with this. I wouldn't mind traveling a bit too, even to another nearby province in Canada if necessary (but preferably not to the US).


Also, what do you guys think about the speakers for the room size? We have a home theatre consultant helping us more with the aesthetic side of the build, and he is insisting that these speakers are way overkill for the room and that we won't be able to appreciate them at normal listening volumes. My research on this forum seems to be telling me otherwise, but what do you guys think?


We're adding in over $10,000 of extra soundproofing costs to accommodate these speakers so I'd be super grateful for any input anyone has on these, and if someone would be willing to let me come over for a listen I'd be eternally grateful!



Thanks so much!!
I vote against mixing different model front speakers. You could get by with that if you had to, but that's not something you should do on purpose. They weren't designed to be used together. They have different crossovers and other important differences.

The exception to this rule is mixing RT & RMs. Those are designed to be used together.
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Last edited by rcohen; 05-23-2017 at 10:08 PM.
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post #37483 of 37492 Old 05-24-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,
I can't help you with the audition aspect of your post, but I do have a couple of thoughts, for what they are worth. First, I would go with identical speakers for the front soundstage if I were you. You are already configuring your center channel vertically, so why not match all three for optimum blending and imaging?

Second, I think that in that room size, the 228's would give you plenty of mid-bass SPL. And, with dual Cap 1400's, you are probably going to cross them at 80Hz. I would either get three 212's or three 228's and I think that I would lean toward three 228's in that size room.

Third, unless your consultant's idea of what constitutes a normal listening volume happens to coincide with your own, I'm not sure that he is in a position to say what constitutes overkill. I would generally prefer to have too much capability rather than too little, and your room treatments will help to attenuate your SPL by about 3db, anyway. So, I don't see anything at all wrong with what you are planning, absent the reservations expressed in the first two paragraphs.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike. I agree better to have more capacity than less. His concern was that sound quality would be compromised at lower volumes as the driver would be designed to operate at a higher SPL than we'd be using it at.

Sounds like, from all your comments, we shouldn't be too worried about that. As long as it sounds good at both typical movie theatre levels, and also, say, 1/2 to 3/4 of that level, we should be good.

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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I assume the reason you're going with a smaller Center Channel (CC) is due to using a flat screen TV or, if you are going front projection, you will not be doing an AT screen. In that case, I think the suggestion of 3 228HTR's for LCR is a good one. That said, I don't think the 212/228 front stage would cause much of a mismatch as all the JTR's sound similar in the frequencies that matter due to using the same compression driver. So I say good call on the speakers and welcome to hi resolution Home Theater. There's no going back ...
That's right, we're not doing an AT screen. We're restricted by the room and other elements going in the room.

Thank you, for both your advice and the warm welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I vote against mixing different model front speakers. You could get by with that if you had to, but that's not something you should do on purpose. They weren't designed to be used together. They have different crossovers and other important differences.

The exception to this rule is mixing RT & RMs. Those are designed to be used together.
Alright, so that makes 3/3 advising against mixing. Thank you all, I'm really glad I asked for help here. So we will go with 3 228's.

The reason why I had originally put 212's as FL and FR are because I thought a larger driver would be better designed to reproduce lower frequencies. I like hearing a good level of depth to both voices and other sounds while watching movies. I trust everything will still sound stunning (and more so) with three 228's.

Still hope I can find someone in Eastern or Central Canada (or even Western, up to Saskatchewan) with these speakers who would allow me to audition. I'll bring lots of beer plus whatever else you request!

Thanks again everyone for your input

Faraaz
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post #37484 of 37492 Old 05-24-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
His concern was that sound quality would be compromised at lower volumes as the driver would be designed to operate at a higher SPL than we'd be using it at.

The reason why I had originally put 212's as FL and FR are because I thought a larger driver would be better designed to reproduce lower frequencies. I like hearing a good level of depth to both voices and other sounds while watching movies. I trust everything will still sound stunning (and more so) with three 228's.
Speakers that can play loud do better than less capable speakers at lower SPLs, not worse. The exception is for speakers that are designed to play loud at the expense of fidelity. That's not what you're getting here. Another potential issues is that some huge speakers are optimized for bigger listening distances. That shouldn't be an issue with either the 228s or 212s.

Certainly the 212s would have more output capability than the 228s on the bottom end. It depends what sub crossover frequency you plan to use, how loud you play, and how much midbass you want. With the 228s, you could probably get very similar results with a higher crossover frequency. Either should work out great.
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post #37485 of 37492 Old 05-24-2017, 12:48 PM
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Have you looked at the ATI Hypex n core amps? I have heard good things, too expensive for me, but if I had the coin they would be the next amp I try.
How do you think that the ATI AT52XNC and AT54XNC amps compare to the Parasound A51/A21s with JTRs? I'd be interested in anyone's impressions.
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post #37486 of 37492 Old 05-24-2017, 01:09 PM
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How do you think that the ATI AT52XNC and AT54XNC amps compare to the Parasound A51/A21s with JTRs? I'd be interested in anyone's impressions.
I don't own either so can't say, but most likely either would sound awesome. For me, if I were considering these 2 amps I would probably opt for the amps I could get for the best price and also if heat is a concern the ATI is much cooler, but you already know this. I know that you are aware of Dave Vaughn's recent review of the ATI amps for Sound and Vision and that he sold his parasounds and kept the ATI's.
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post #37487 of 37492 Old 05-24-2017, 04:34 PM
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I don't own either so can't say, but most likely either would sound awesome. For me, if I were considering these 2 amps I would probably opt for the amps I could get for the best price and also if heat is a concern the ATI is much cooler, but you already know this. I know that you are aware of Dave Vaughn's recent review of the ATI amps for Sound and Vision and that he sold his parasounds and kept the ATI's.
Thanks for the response. I am aware of his review. I was the one who bought his A51. I also have an A21 and now that the weather is warmer in Sacramento, I notice the heat more. That would be the only reason that I would consider making a switch to the ATIs, but was hoping to hear another JTR owner who could be familiar with them who could comment on the sound quality. The Parasounds do sound fantastic.
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post #37488 of 37492 Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
Thanks Mike. I agree better to have more capacity than less. His concern was that sound quality would be compromised at lower volumes as the driver would be designed to operate at a higher SPL than we'd be using it at.

Sounds like, from all your comments, we shouldn't be too worried about that. As long as it sounds good at both typical movie theatre levels, and also, say, 1/2 to 3/4 of that level, we should be good.



That's right, we're not doing an AT screen. We're restricted by the room and other elements going in the room.

Thank you, for both your advice and the warm welcome!



Alright, so that makes 3/3 advising against mixing. Thank you all, I'm really glad I asked for help here. So we will go with 3 228's.

The reason why I had originally put 212's as FL and FR are because I thought a larger driver would be better designed to reproduce lower frequencies. I like hearing a good level of depth to both voices and other sounds while watching movies. I trust everything will still sound stunning (and more so) with three 228's.

Still hope I can find someone in Eastern or Central Canada (or even Western, up to Saskatchewan) with these speakers who would allow me to audition. I'll bring lots of beer plus whatever else you request!

Thanks again everyone for your input

Faraaz
Fire your theater consultant. You'll get better advice in this thread.

The SPL is just one aspect. You're paying for the dynamics and clarity....and the ability to go as high as you please (and can bare).

Unless your building your HT from scratch, sound proofing in an already built structure is next to impossible, so $10,000 is a waste....is the HT yet to be built? All you can really do treat the room if the room already has drywall...and I can see spending around around 1k for treatments.

And three 228 across will be great.

I don't have any regret in getting my S8s for surrounds...you won't either. It's perfect to match the jtr sound.

Two 1400 is all you'll ever need...and still get you in trouble with the Mrs.

You're going to love this setup. Guaranteed.

Be prepared to listen to every song and movie for the first time all over again...but with a much bigger grin.
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Has anyone gone from Martin Logan stats to JTRs? If so, what are your impressions?
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post #37490 of 37492 Old Today, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
Hi everyone,

We're doing a home theatre build, and have pretty much decided on getting JTR speakers.

After reading through this forum, I've decided on the following speakers:
  • Front left / right: 212htr (x2)
  • Centre: 228htr
  • Surround left/right: 8HT-lp (x2)
  • Surround back left/right: Slanted 8HT (x2)
  • On ceilings: Single 8HT-lp x 2
  • Subs: Captivator 1400 x 2
The room is approximately 14.75' x 19' x 8.5'


We're going to be spending a lot of money on these speakers, and are a bit wary of plopping down so much cash without auditioning them. Is there anybody remotely close to Toronto, Ontario, Canada who would be willing to let us come over for a listen? I'd be really, really grateful for any help with this. I wouldn't mind traveling a bit too, even to another nearby province in Canada if necessary (but preferably not to the US).


Also, what do you guys think about the speakers for the room size? We have a home theatre consultant helping us more with the aesthetic side of the build, and he is insisting that these speakers are way overkill for the room and that we won't be able to appreciate them at normal listening volumes. My research on this forum seems to be telling me otherwise, but what do you guys think?


We're adding in over $10,000 of extra soundproofing costs to accommodate these speakers so I'd be super grateful for any input anyone has on these, and if someone would be willing to let me come over for a listen I'd be eternally grateful!



Thanks so much!!
Your room is close to the same size as mine volume wise (28x11x7.5) I'm in the same boat, deciding if three 228ht with twin cap 1400 and s8 for sides and surrounds or three 212ht with a cap4000ulf is the way to go. Don't worry about buying jtr anything blind you won't be dissatisfied, these things just don't happen. I've heard triple 8's and they were amazing and the 228's are better in every way from what I've read. I've also owned a Cap and again, just no chance in hell you'll ever regret it.
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post #37491 of 37492 Old Today, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
Fire your theater consultant. You'll get better advice in this thread.

The SPL is just one aspect. You're paying for the dynamics and clarity....and the ability to go as high as you please (and can bare).

Unless your building your HT from scratch, sound proofing in an already built structure is next to impossible, so $10,000 is a waste....is the HT yet to be built? All you can really do treat the room if the room already has drywall...and I can see spending around around 1k for treatments.

And three 228 across will be great.

I don't have any regret in getting my S8s for surrounds...you won't either. It's perfect to match the jtr sound.

Two 1400 is all you'll ever need...and still get you in trouble with the Mrs.

You're going to love this setup. Guaranteed.

Be prepared to listen to every song and movie for the first time all over again...but with a much bigger grin.
Very true, and dynamics and clarity is why we are willing to pay extra for these. We're setting ourselves up with really high expectations but sounds like none of you have been disappointed. Just wish there was a way to audition!

The HT is yet to be built, we're at the end of the planning stage. The sound treatments he is adding are:
  1. Ceiling insert MDF/Green Glue $5500 (note there is a lot of molding on the ceiling)
  2. Sound absorption flooring $1600
  3. Wrap back booth in MLV $550
  4. Foam bass traps $1500
  5. Screen/cabinet wall foam $1700
  6. Decoupling speaker base $400
Totaling $11,250 CAD ($8400 USD). Do these numbers look totally out of whack or are we doing the right thing here?


Actually our "consultant" is more accurately the general contractor for the build, and he's putting in some really beautiful designs, so it's going to look great thanks to him. That being said you are right on the money and I am definitely getting better advice with all of you as my A/V consultants...thank you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzydee View Post
Decoupling speaker base $400
What exactly does he say about this? Yea it's the cheapest part, but very likely completely pointless.

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