Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1259 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37741 of 37754 Old 08-10-2017, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
^

Thank you, Desertdome.

That's strange. 1% THD @ 1khz. It's a little deceptive for those who wouldn't think to dig further. I was thinking about using the Nord amps, but I read about one guy having a number of issues with them and having to return them. Not sure if I want to potentially deal with that, being in Canada.

I think I'll give the D-Sonic's a go and see what they can do. I don't hear about many dissatisfied customers with the current modules.
And just to confirm that, I am another happy customer of Dsonic amps. It is now the longest standing unit in my rack with absolutely no plans to replace it.
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post #37742 of 37754 Old 08-10-2017, 05:46 PM
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Thanks, Beast!
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post #37743 of 37754 Old 08-10-2017, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Rather than guessing about distances and height, the real thing to do is just measure it. Unless you have nulls, it's all fixable with EQ, anyway. I've had some speakers where you can move your head up and down a couple feet and hear a pretty big shift. The JTRs behave pretty well in that respect.

The bigger problem you may run into against the wall is more problems with bass...much bigger peaks and nulls.
Sorry, not feeling well last couple days so I was incognito...Yea I'm aware you want to stay off walls. Thats why I'm splitting the rear wall and 3/4 point of room. 3/4 point is nasty natural null and we know what walls do. 3ft 3inch off wall is enough, I haven't measured yet but my ears say so, to avoid bloating issues. Still close to 3/4 point but I'm going to plop an 18" single woofer on each side wall close to it and inline with seating. Plus a near field. This may cause more than basic 2channel for music though if bass is not good enough...

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post #37744 of 37754 Old 08-10-2017, 06:01 PM
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Sorry, not feeling well last couple days so I was incognito...Yea I'm aware you want to stay off walls. Thats why I'm splitting the rear wall and 3/4 point of room. 3/4 point is nasty natural null and we know what walls do. 3ft 3inch off wall is enough, I haven't measured yet but my ears say so, to avoid bloating issues. Still close to 3/4 point but I'm going to plop an 18" single woofer on each side wall close to it and inline with seating. Plus a near field. This may cause more than basic 2channel for music though if bass is not good enough...
I guess I misread your post.
Anyway, if you have a closed rectangular room, you can use that REW room simulator to get a quick idea. Not as good as measuring, but I still find it very helpful.
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post #37745 of 37754 Old 08-10-2017, 06:18 PM
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Here's a good article. I've never tried it, but without one, I do have the problem they describe with some cancellation from front wall reflections. Some people address this with a couple feet of insulation as acoustical treatment.
http://www.pmiltd.com/published%20ar...ed%20Again.pdf

Aside from the extra work&cost, it seems like the only downside of baffle walls is that you can no longer move/angle/replace speakers.

Also, after hearing The Savoy, I will vouch for Nyal.
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...-of-the-month/

Carp is getting excellent results with the insulation approach.
Yea, I'm working with Shawn Byrne who is from the same school of thought as Nyal, particularly side wall reflection management and not absorption as well as no more than 25-30% absorption maximum among other theories.

Ive never heard even one 'meh' comment about the savoy. Wish I lived closer!

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SBIR is mitigated if your speakers are at least 36" from the front wall (I prefer 40-42") and your subwoofers are closer than 36" and you use an 80 Hz crossover. Low frequency boosting and diffraction can be done with the existing front wall. There are trade offs either way.

Disadvantages of a baffle wall:
  • You are locked into speaker and subwoofer locations. Since both side walls are rarely constructed the same, it is beneficial to be able to move the subwoofers laterally to find the acoustic 1/4 points. The goal of subwoofer placement at the front of the room is to reduce the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd axial width modes. This makes sure all seats in a row have the same bass response. You also can't play with toe-in of the speakers. I position subwoofers bassed on boundary gain, mutual coupling, and room mode suppression.
  • You have shrunk the room's length. Yes, a baffle wall will act just like the other walls and reflect some bass back in to the room. Some even make the baffle thicker than their regular walls. By having a shorter acoustic room, you have a narrower area for optimum seating placement. Your quarter points are base on the measurement of the room from baffle wall to rear wall.
  • In a the size of most home theaters, the subwoofers often become part of the baffle immediately beside a speaker. You end up with a true baffle on one side of the speaker and the subwoofer on the other that really isn't acting like a baffle.

I've measured and calibrated dlbeck's room many times. I would have preferred placement options vs the baffle wall. Also, his baffle wall doesn't measure like the theoretical optimum.

I like to put a furring strip across the ceiling 4-6" out from the front wall. Then staple 3.5" UltraTouch across the width. The UltraTouch comes in 93" lengths and 23" widths. Cover in a few pieces of 70" wide grill cloth from Parts Express.


The Noesis 215RT has its lowest impedence at around 60 Hz of 2.6 ohms. This means the amp is outputting 600+ watts. Each amp has a 1kW power supply so can provide plenty of peak output. Note that your amp is spec'd with RMS power vs peak levels used for Pascal and other modules.
Thanks for the amp reassurance!

Speakers will not be that far off front wall. Room is only 20ft 5 inches deep and I am modeling about 30 inches for false wall. I need to keep it as minimal as possible because my Sony 40es throw distance and room length.

Do you think modeling my two big subs sandwiching the center 215 is best or split in between L&C and R&C speakers to keep and even 'imaging' effect? I'm not motivated to build a baffle wall really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
^

Thank you, Desertdome.

That's strange. 1% THD @ 1khz. It's a little deceptive for those who wouldn't think to dig further. I was thinking about using the Nord amps, but I read about one guy having a number of issues with them and having to return them. Not sure if I want to potentially deal with that, being in Canada.

I think I'll give the D-Sonic's a go and see what they can do. I don't hear about many dissatisfied customers with the current modules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
And just to confirm that, I am another happy customer of Dsonic amps. It is now the longest standing unit in my rack with absolutely no plans to replace it.

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post #37746 of 37754 Old 08-12-2017, 12:46 PM
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Has this been posted up yet? I did a quick search, and haven't seen it on this thread?!?!?!

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post #37747 of 37754 Old 08-12-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Has this been posted up yet? I did a quick search, and haven't seen it on this thread?!?!?!

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You are late to the party
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post #37748 of 37754 Old 08-12-2017, 04:18 PM
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You are late to the party
FML!!!!!!

You guys never freakin invite me....
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post #37749 of 37754 Old 08-13-2017, 03:57 PM
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FML!!!!!!

You guys never freakin invite me....
The main question is have you seen the vid of the duals in Jeff's shop 'flying the hat?' I was late on that and double posted like a month late...
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post #37750 of 37754 Old 08-15-2017, 07:09 AM
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I like to put a furring strip across the ceiling 4-6" out from the front wall. Then staple 3.5" UltraTouch across the width. The UltraTouch comes in 93" lengths and 23" widths. Cover in a few pieces of 70" wide grill cloth from Parts Express.
I'm wanting to use this idea! Do you use some type of frame to staple to grill cloth to? Any pics you could possibly post?

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post #37751 of 37754 Old 08-15-2017, 08:18 AM
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I'm wanting to use this idea! Do you use some type of frame to staple to grill cloth to? Any pics you could possibly post?
If you use a power staple gun, you can put a few staples through the insulation to tack it to the furring strip and then staple the grill cloth over it the same furring strip. This increases the staples holding the insulation. I'm not sure it is necessary, but my customer used small pieces of rubber to stable through to act as "washers" for the staples. This was to help prevent any tear through. One could also tack up the insulation and then put another thin piece of wood over it and screw into the furring strip. This would pinch the insulation and allow one to staple the grill cloth to the thin piece of wood.

I just checked and don't have any pictures. The customer's screen would have to come down to take some.

I heard your old LS9's a few weeks ago. They sound great as mains in a large home theater.

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post #37752 of 37754 Old 08-15-2017, 01:23 PM
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If you use a power staple gun, you can put a few staples through the insulation to tack it to the furring strip and then staple the grill cloth over it the same furring strip. This increases the staples holding the insulation. I'm not sure it is necessary, but my customer used small pieces of rubber to stable through to act as "washers" for the staples. This was to help prevent any tear through. One could also tack up the insulation and then put another thin piece of wood over it and screw into the furring strip. This would pinch the insulation and allow one to staple the grill cloth to the thin piece of wood.

I just checked and don't have any pictures. The customer's screen would have to come down to take some.

I heard your old LS9's a few weeks ago. They sound great as mains in a large home theater.
Man I loved those LS9's, I've wondered if they made the trip back to Nebraska unscathed in the back of that pickup truck. I regret selling them honestly.

How do you think the LS9's compare to the JTR215? I currently run Danleys, have never heard the 215's but would love to hear them and how they compared to the LS9 and my active SH100B

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post #37753 of 37754 Old 08-15-2017, 04:20 PM
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Man I loved those LS9's, I've wondered if they made the trip back to Nebraska unscathed in the back of that pickup truck. I regret selling them honestly.

How do you think the LS9's compare to the JTR215? I currently run Danleys, have never heard the 215's but would love to hear them and how they compared to the LS9 and my active SH100B
Unfortunately, they didn't make it all the way to Nebraska . . . because Ryan lives in Iowa just a few miles east of Nebraska.

I probably shouldn't say anything since my LS6's are up for sale. I bought 3 of the 215RT's what were at AXPONA.

The 215RT's are tuned much lower - 17Hz vs ~26Hz and they have over twice the bass displacement of an LS9. Organ music that pushed my LS6's to the limits will hardly make the 215RT woofers move. They have so much headroom that distortion is super low for most listening levels. When using LS6's or 215RT's fullrange in my room, the 215RT's easily win. They also have a better frequency response in the bass than the LS6's. It is the horn and coaxial compression driver that are really special on the 215RT. There is a clarity and naturalness that the LS speakers just can't achieve. The highs are more extended, but never harsh. The soundstage is deeper with the 215RT's and the imaging is always locked in. What I mean by that is on the LS6's the center imaging would move left to right and was more diffuse. It was a little like the speakers were out of phase. After living with the 215RT's for several months now and getting through more of my catalog of content, I know made the right decision to buy them.

My parents stopped by last week. My dad has listened to my LS6's many times for extended sessions. He hadn't had a chance to sit down and listen to my 215RT's yet. He said he has never heard a speaker so natural in its presentation of instruments and voices as my 215RT's. He likes attending live organ concerts. I played some Toccata and Fugue and he said it sounded like I had a real organ in the room. He is coming back for a more extended listening session soon.

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post #37754 of 37754 Old Yesterday, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
If you use a power staple gun, you can put a few staples through the insulation to tack it to the furring strip and then staple the grill cloth over it the same furring strip. This increases the staples holding the insulation. I'm not sure it is necessary, but my customer used small pieces of rubber to stable through to act as "washers" for the staples. This was to help prevent any tear through. One could also tack up the insulation and then put another thin piece of wood over it and screw into the furring strip. This would pinch the insulation and allow one to staple the grill cloth to the thin piece of wood.

I just checked and don't have any pictures. The customer's screen would have to come down to take some.

I heard your old LS9's a few weeks ago. They sound great as mains in a large home theater.
I certainly don't miss my LS9's!
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