Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1262 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37831 of 37853 Old 09-15-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post
Is there any particular trick to setting up a phantom center?
If you have a symmetrical room, speaker placement, and sidewalls, and have a centered listening position, the phantom center should be virtually perfect. With Dirac enabled, I honestly can't tell of the center speaker is on or off, unless I'm sitting off-axis.

So, I'd say the trick is to keep everything symmetrical.

When things are asymmetrical or you're sitting off axis, it's easy to tell the difference. In those cases, the center channel can help a lot.
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post #37832 of 37853 Old 09-15-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I have two infinite baffle manifolds - one in the front left corner and one in the front right corner of my room. Each manifold has 4 Acoustic Elegance IB15 woofers. With the IB manifolds and the 215RT's, I have 14 15" woofers!

When I got the 215RT's, I disconnected my IB system and have been routing all bass to the LCR. I use JRiver Media Center to copy the LFE channel to the LCR. Output the LFE channel from 3 separate channels results in a 9.54 dB gain of the LFE channel which is very close to the 10 dB requirement. Adding .46 dB to the LFE prior to adding to each channel results in a 10.002 dB overall gain for the LFE channel.

Tonight or tomorrow I'm reconnecting the IB system because I have someone coming over tomorrow afternoon for a demo. With the IB system in place, I'll only send the LFE to the IB system and send redirected bass from surrounds to the mains. I'll be able to switch back and forth for comparison.

For two channel, I can do three things with just the 215RT's:
  1. Play regular stereo
  2. Copy the bass from L/R to the center with the copied bass from each channel attenuated 6 dB (each speaker outputs same SPL)
  3. Put a 80 Hz high pass on L/R , combine bass from L/R, attenuate by 3.5 dB, route bass back to LCR

I think 1 or 2 are the best options. 2 sounds a little weightier since you are getting a 3.54 dB gain in the bass.

The bass from the 215RT's and the infinite baffle system sound very close. I really haven't spent any time switching back and forth, though. I wanted to really do some extended listing with the 215RT's before using the IB system again. I listen almost every night, but like to spend weeks (months?) with the same system before starting to compare.
Thanks, that is impressive. I am considering selling my LCR 212 originals and purchasing a pair of 215s. I would eventually get another when I build the theater (garage conversion in a year or so), but a center won't fit behind AT screen now. I love the idea of having full range Mains for 2 channel music, but I am unsure if I could let go of my subs for movies I guess only one way to know.
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post #37833 of 37853 Old 09-15-2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post
Thanks, that is impressive. I am considering selling my LCR 212 originals and purchasing a pair of 215s. I would eventually get another when I build the theater (garage conversion in a year or so), but a center won't fit behind AT screen now. I love the idea of having full range Mains for 2 channel music, but I am unsure if I could let go of my subs for movies I guess only one way to know.
EXACTLY HTPCat! I like that way that you think. If I go with 215RTs (and maybe a 215RM for center duty), I would keep my Cap 1400 and most likely place it in the rear (near field) for some added bass and smoothing.
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post #37834 of 37853 Old 09-17-2017, 12:24 PM
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Quick question, New JTR speaker owner here. It's totally normal to hug and kiss your JTR speakers before going to bed every night right? Needless to say I'm in absolute love with these things 😄🔉🔉🔉 🔉🔉🤗
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post #37835 of 37853 Old 09-19-2017, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by turbojohngt View Post
Quick question, New JTR speaker owner here. It's totally normal to hug and kiss your JTR speakers before going to bed every night right? Needless to say I'm in absolute love with these things 😄🔉🔉🔉 🔉🔉🤗
Nice set up !

Samsung 55 inch lcd Marantz sr5400
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JTR OS LFU (2013)
JTR OS LFU (2016)
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post #37836 of 37853 Old 09-19-2017, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohngt View Post
Quick question, New JTR speaker owner here. It's totally normal to hug and kiss your JTR speakers before going to bed every night right? Needless to say I'm in absolute love with these things 😄🔉🔉🔉 🔉🔉🤗
Nice set up !

Samsung 55 inch lcd Marantz sr5400
Parasound HCA 1500 Parasound HCA 1000
JTR OS LFU (2013)
JTR OS LFU (2016)
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post #37837 of 37853 Old 09-21-2017, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohngt View Post
Quick question, New JTR speaker owner here. It's totally normal to hug and kiss your JTR speakers before going to bed every night right? Needless to say I'm in absolute love with these things 😄🔉🔉🔉 🔉🔉🤗
What center channel stand are you using?
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post #37838 of 37853 Old 09-21-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohngt View Post
Quick question, New JTR speaker owner here. It's totally normal to hug and kiss your JTR speakers before going to bed every night right? Needless to say I'm in absolute love with these things 😄🔉🔉🔉 🔉🔉🤗
I do the same thing. I look at my speakers every night and place my hands on them before going to bed. It is a a great feeling to work hard and be blessed to be able to buy your dream speakers.
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post #37839 of 37853 Old 09-23-2017, 05:33 PM
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We've now shipped some Noesis 212T speakers and finished crossover updates to the Noesis 212HT.
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post #37840 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 04:51 AM
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Hello all! I’ve got an active thread that I figure I’ll drop a link to here as well, since I’m specifically targeting my interest and questions towards JTR loudspeakers. Any thoughts everyone? Link below. I have some placement questions in there as well, that I’d like help with too. Fire away!

PSA? JTR? $3k-$7k on LCR? Pics inside.
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post #37841 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Hello all! I’ve got an active thread that I figure I’ll drop a link to here as well, since I’m specifically targeting my interest and questions towards JTR loudspeakers. Any thoughts everyone? Link below. I have some placement questions in there as well, that I’d like help with too. Fire away!

PSA? JTR? $3k-$7k on LCR? Pics inside.
Well, they are pretty different price leagues. I love my JTR 212 3-ways. They are much more capable speakers than PSAs. Better sound quality. More output capability. More frequency extension. Lower distortion. Better components. It's worth the money to me. Not at all a case of speakers that are more expense because of the brand. The PSAs are great values for their price class, though. It just depends on your priorities.

Looking at your photos, it looks like you'd have to replace that table under the screen to fit a center channel. Since your seating needs to support a pretty wide range of angles, I don't thank phantom center would work well for you. I'm not a fan of center channels above the screen. I find that pretty distracting.

Some JTR options to consider:
1) 3x228HTR
2) 3x212HTR
3) 2x210RT + 1x210RM
4) 2x212RT + 1x212HTR

The RTs are capable of playing lower without subs. It depends whether you plan to do that.
The bigger models get you more output capability and lower frequency extension for more size, weight, and money.
They aren't necessarily better. It just depends on your needs.

You might be able to find AVS shootouts with both PSAs and JTRs to get better feedback on the differences.

Nice looking room!

While I'm spending your money, you might want to consider a scope screen that fills that space in your wall and placing your LRs in the corners. The ultimate option would be to get an AT scope screen and going with 3 identical vertical speakers with the C or LCR behind the screen. The depth of the wall would help determine which speaker models would fit.
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post #37842 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Well, they are pretty different price leagues. I love my JTR 212 3-ways. They are much more capable speakers than PSAs. Better sound quality. More output capability. More frequency extension. Lower distortion. Better components. It's worth the money to me. Not at all a case of speakers that are more expense because of the brand. The PSAs are great values for their price class, though. It just depends on your priorities.



Looking at your photos, it looks like you'd have to replace that table under the screen to fit a center channel. Since your seating needs to support a pretty wide range of angles, I don't thank phantom center would work well for you. I'm not a fan of center channels above the screen. I find that pretty distracting.



Some JTR options to consider:

1) 3x228HTR

2) 3x212HTR

3) 2x210RT + 1x210RM

4) 2x212RT + 1x212HTR



The RTs are capable of playing lower without subs. It depends whether you plan to do that.

The bigger models get you more output capability and lower frequency extension for more size, weight, and money.

They aren't necessarily better. It just depends on your needs.



You might be able to find AVS shootouts with both PSAs and JTRs to get better feedback on the differences.



Nice looking room!



While I'm spending your money, you might want to consider a scope screen that fills that space in your wall and placing your LRs in the corners. The ultimate option would be to get an AT scope screen and going with 3 identical vertical speakers with the C or LCR behind the screen. The depth of the wall would help determine which speaker models would fit.


Awesome info! That table under the screen will not exist. I’m having all of the components in a back corner of the room. So, the center, whatever I choose, will be able to be placed under the screen. I was actually thinking of having two Cap 1400s or two Cap 2400s laying on their sides underneath the screen, and vertical size permitting, placing the center on them. Might be too tall though and make the display too high.

I might just get a short center channel stand like what the poster used above me a few posts, and implementing that.

It’s funny you mentioned basically placing an AT screen, and running three towers behind it. I’ve considered that. I won’t be doing that initially, though.


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post #37843 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM
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I might just get a short center channel stand like what the poster used above me a few posts, and implementing that.
That works. Just keep the size and weight of the speaker in mind.

For wide seating angles like you have and a horizontal center channel, the 3-way models will have a pretty big advantage with off-axis response, thanks to the coax mid-tweeter.
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post #37844 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 08:05 AM
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Official JTR speaker thread

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That works. Just keep the size and weight of the speaker in mind.



For wide seating angles like you have and a horizontal center channel, the 3-way models will have a pretty big advantage with off-axis response, thanks to the coax mid-tweeter.


That is a fantastic point I didn’t consider at all versus having 2-ways.

Hmmmmm.

Going 210RT for LR, and then 210RM for center, is that a problem with LR being ported and C not? Maybe just got LCR all 210RM?


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post #37845 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 08:09 AM
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That is a fantastic point I didn’t consider at all versus having 2-ways.

Hmmmmm.


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It wouldn't affect the center seat, but the side seats could have cancellation of vocal frequencies, hurting dialog clarity.
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post #37846 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 08:29 AM
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It wouldn't affect the center seat, but the side seats could have cancellation of vocal frequencies, hurting dialog clarity.


This isn’t also an issue with surround speakers, correct?

Any comments on 210RMs vs 228HTRs?


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post #37847 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 08:56 AM
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This isn’t also an issue with surround speakers, correct?

Any comments on 210RMs vs 228HTRs?


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Not as much, since dialog clarity is less of a concern. The best way to solve this with surrounds, though, is to use coaxes.

210RM is designed to be used as a center with 210RT LRs.
Comparing 2x210RTs + 1x210RM vs 228HTRs, the 210RT has goes lower, although the 228HTRs are more efficient.
Also, the 210RT is a tower.

Aside from that, they are actually quite similar.
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Not as much, since dialog clarity is less of a concern. The best way to solve this with surrounds, though, is to use coaxes.



210RM is designed to be used as a center with 210RT LRs.

Comparing 2x210RTs + 1x210RM vs 228HTRs, the 210RT has goes lower, although the 228HTRs are more efficient.

Also, the 210RT is a tower.



Aside from that, they are actually quite similar.


It honestly looks like the flavors of the 212s are the best value. Can you toss me a comparison of the 212HTRs and the 212RT or the 212T?

I know two are towers and one isn’t, plus two are 3-ways and one isn’t.


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post #37849 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 12:50 PM
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It honestly looks like the flavors of the 212s are the best value. Can you toss me a comparison of the 212HTRs and the 212RT or the 212T?

I know two are towers and one isn’t, plus two are 3-ways and one isn’t.


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It depends on what you're looking for. There isn't really a better, although the 3-ways are better than the 2-ways, at a significant price difference. That's not to say that the 2-ways are bad. Some have estimated a 5-10% difference, but the difference may be bigger for running them horizontal far off axis. Personally, I really prefer what the 3-ways do. Extended clean treble, super-clean and lifelike mids.

212HTR vs 212RT - the RTs play lower and are floor standing.

212RT vs 212T - The RTs are 3-way with the fancy coax.

If you need a horizontal center, with 212RTs, you'd use a 212HTR.
With 212Ts, you'd use a 212HT.

Lots of big fans around here for the 210RTs.
I haven't seen any impressions on the new 212RT and 212Ts, yet.
The 212RTs and 212Ts are a lot bigger than the 210RTs, if that is a concern for you.
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post #37850 of 37853 Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
It depends on what you're looking for. There isn't really a better, although the 3-ways are better than the 2-ways, at a significant price difference. That's not to say that the 2-ways are bad. Some have estimated a 5-10% difference, but the difference may be bigger for running them horizontal far off axis. Personally, I really prefer what the 3-ways do. Extended clean treble, super-clean and lifelike mids.



212HTR vs 212RT - the RTs play lower and are floor standing.



212RT vs 212T - The RTs are 3-way with the fancy coax.



If you need a horizontal center, with 212RTs, you'd use a 212HTR.

With 212Ts, you'd use a 212HT.



Lots of big fans around here for the 210RTs.

I haven't seen any impressions on the new 212RT and 212Ts, yet.

The 212RTs and 212Ts are a lot bigger than the 210RTs, if that is a concern for you.


Awesome! That is great info. If I’m running 2 Cap 1400s or 2 Cap 2400s....is there a reason to get a floor standing model at all? I’ll be crossing them over at 60-80 anyway...so maybe bookshelfs (if you can call a 212HTR that!) are the best bet?


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Awesome! That is great info. If I’m running 2 Cap 1400s or 2 Cap 2400s....is there a reason to get a floor standing model at all? I’ll be crossing them over at 60-80 anyway...so maybe bookshelfs (if you can call a 212HTR that!) are the best bet?


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If you're using them with subs, it's mainly a practical/aesthetic/size/weight question.
Behind an AT screen, I'd say wrap some cinder blocks with black felt and use those for stands. It saves money/shipping and it makes the height adjustable.
For out in the room, the towers would look nicest.
JTR also makes stands at various heights.
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Official JTR speaker thread

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If you're using them with subs, it's mainly a practical/aesthetic/size/weight question.

Behind an AT screen, I'd say wrap some cinder blocks with black felt and use those for stands. It saves money/shipping and it makes the height adjustable.

For out in the room, the towers would look nicest.

JTR also makes stands at various heights.


Is there any issue using something other than a matched set for LCR? Perhaps a 212HTR for LR, and a 228HTR for C?

Does any one have any reviews of the 212RT yet? The tower version of the 212HTR?


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Is there any issue using something other than a matched set for LCR? Perhaps a 212HTR for LR, and a 228HTR for C?

Does any one have any reviews of the 212RT yet? The tower version of the 212HTR?


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Yes. The crossover is different, so you could get phase cancellation when sound is panned between speakers. You want speakers that are designed to be used together. Some people mix them and are happy with the results, but you definitely don't want to walk those kinds of problems if you can avoid it.
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