Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1265 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37921 of 37935 Old 10-14-2017, 08:19 AM
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Any changes to the 215RT's coming? I'll be purchasing before the end of the year. Should I wait?
Looking at every aspect under a microscope and refining the crossovers for even low distortion and smoother sound. We're updating as ordered so no need to hold off.
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post #37922 of 37935 Old 10-14-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Looking at every aspect under a microscope and refining the crossovers for even low distortion and smoother sound. We're updating as ordered so no need to hold off.
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the response. I'll ask here as it might be pertinent to others as well. What are the costs for other finishes on the 215RT's? I'm only getting a pair and would like them to look nicer than the standard finish. I know you offer the automotive finish, which I'm very interested in.
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post #37923 of 37935 Old 10-14-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the response. I'll ask here as it might be pertinent to others as well. What are the costs for other finishes on the 215RT's? I'm only getting a pair and would like them to look nicer than the standard finish. I know you offer the automotive finish, which I'm very interested in.
The really large cabinets like the Noesis 215RT and Captivator 4000 are $500 for veneer/finishing and $1000 for the automotive finish.
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post #37924 of 37935 Old 10-14-2017, 12:30 PM
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The really large cabinets like the Noesis 215RT and Captivator 4000 are $500 for veneer/finishing and $1000 for the automotive finish.
Prefect! Thank you, Jeff. I'll be discussing with you the automotive finish options. I'm guessing it would be best to call, which I'll do at the end of November.

Cheers!
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post #37925 of 37935 Old 10-14-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
We're updating as ordered so no need to hold off. Shipped the first 2018 Noesis 228HT last week and shipping the first 2018 Noesis 212RT next week.


Got it! I’m debating on 212RT’s all around with a 212HTR center. Just gotta finalize my decision on the subs.


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post #37926 of 37935 Old 10-18-2017, 05:19 PM
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Showed the wife how big the 210RT's are compared to my Salk's with a tape measure and she didn't even bat an eye.

210RT is 4" wider and 4" deeper than a SongTower. The 210RM is a monster compared to the SalkCenter. Might need to go bigger than 65" for viewing now too.

210RT VS Salk


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post #37927 of 37935 Old 10-20-2017, 09:50 AM
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Question Music-only 2.0 setup - 210RT?

Dear audiophiles:

I am looking for your recommendations for music-only stereo setup:

1. "Cave": 14' x 14' x 8' with a wide opening into 10' x 10' x 8' room behind my listening position (small condo).
2. Amplification: PASS Labs XA30.5 (30 W/ch into 8 Ohm).
3. Music preferences: organ, opera, orchestral works with big dynamic swings, fortepiano, vocal jazz, pop (a bit eclectic...).
4. Should provide high fidelity sound even at low listening levels (65 - 75 dB, I would say).
4. Budget: up to 5K a pair.

Would you suggest me considering the JTR 210RT's for my setup, please? Alternatives? 

What are your recommendations for the speakers placement: distances from the walls, between the speakers and from the speakers to the listening position?

Please chime in!

Respectfully,
Sound Sparks
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post #37928 of 37935 Old 10-20-2017, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundSparks View Post
Dear audiophiles:

I am looking for your recommendations for music-only stereo setup:

1. "Cave": 14' x 14' x 8' with a wide opening into 10' x 10' x 8' room behind my listening position (small condo).
2. Amplification: PASS Labs XA30.5 (30 W/ch into 8 Ohm).
3. Music preferences: organ, opera, orchestral works with big dynamic swings, fortepiano, vocal jazz, pop (a bit eclectic...).
4. Should provide high fidelity sound even at low listening levels (65 - 75 dB, I would say).
4. Budget: up to 5K a pair.

Would you suggest me considering the JTR 210RT's for my setup, please? Alternatives? 

What are your recommendations for the speakers placement: distances from the walls, between the speakers and from the speakers to the listening position?

Please chime in!
I would say either the 210RT or 212RT (more efficient but bigger). Both go down into the 30hz area in room. Since these speakers both have large waveguides you can get away with having them close to the walls if you toe them in a bit more.
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post #37929 of 37935 Old 10-20-2017, 10:07 AM
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Gonna need a lot more power than 30 watts though

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post #37930 of 37935 Old 10-20-2017, 01:53 PM
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Gonna need a lot more power than 30 watts though
Considering his listening levels, the 212RT's would probably be just fine.
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post #37931 of 37935 Old Yesterday, 10:16 AM
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Question More questions...

Dear Experts:

Thank you very kindly for your most appreciated input.

First of all, the “Boss” will never approve the 212RT’s: they are way too big for our smallish sitting room…

I am just a newbie, so please forgive my next questions…

Could you please help me to understand if the sensitivity quoted at “2.0 volts, free air” is the same as quoted at “2.0 V at 3.3 ft, free air”, is the same as quoted at “1 W at 1 m”, and in case of the 210RT’s is 95 dB?

Would you consider this tool to be sufficiently accurate to estimate the amplifier power required to produce the desired SPL?

Could you also please give me an idea of the 210RT’s placement relative to each other, side and back walls, and the sweet spot?

Please chime in!

Respectfully,
Sound Sparks
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post #37932 of 37935 Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
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Official JTR speaker thread

First off, I have heard almost all of the current line aside from the 212rt, and the 210rt is my favorite. I own a pair. I won't go on and on how they are perfection again, unless you want me to, because I will . The cool part about them is they aren't huge and have a massive sound. Quite petite compared to the 215 in fact. I have them set up in a less than ideal temporary setup right now as they wait for a room build / they are 1' from back and side walls and they are outstanding. They are getting 100w from an old avr and are not short on output. I have heard them several feet from any wall and 2' from side and back walls in different arrangements. Each time the spacing between each other and MLP was equidistant or close to it with 10 degrees toed in. 12' spacing for the golden triangle is probably my favorite arrangement. I have a Crown xti 4002 amp with dsp for them - I think it's 600w ch - and a hpf at 30hz. The end use will have them running 2.1 with s sealed hs24 sub. It is not at all necessary to run a sub with these because they dig deep, but the hpf is a good idea in case you don't want to blow the drivers, which I have a tendency to do because I'm an idiot.
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post #37933 of 37935 Old Today, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundSparks View Post
Dear Experts:

Thank you very kindly for your most appreciated input.

First of all, the “Boss” will never approve the 212RT’s: they are way too big for our smallish sitting room…

I am just a newbie, so please forgive my next questions…

Could you please help me to understand if the sensitivity quoted at “2.0 volts, free air” is the same as quoted at “2.0 V at 3.3 ft, free air”, is the same as quoted at “1 W at 1 m”, and in case of the 210RT’s is 95 dB?

Would you consider this tool to be sufficiently accurate to estimate the amplifier power required to produce the desired SPL?

Could you also please give me an idea of the 210RT’s placement relative to each other, side and back walls, and the sweet spot?

Please chime in!
volts = sqrt(watts x ohms)
So, yes, they are equivalent.

Keep in mind that JTR specs are accurate, if not conservative, while most speakers publish wishful specs, particularly for sensitivity and low frequency extension.

Your amps are specced at 60 watts at 4 ohms.
I think you are in good shape for your listening levels.
Since the 210RTs are very robust with 2000 watt RMS power handling, if you do move them into a larger room with more power requirements, or you want to use lots of EQ with aggressive bass boost, you could push them harder in the future with more amp power.
The 2000 watt power handling will make them sound better than other speakers at 60 watts, not worse (less distortion.)

I think they will sound great with the Pass Labs amps, unless your needs change. Since JTRs sound so clean, playing louder is very different than you may be used to from other speakers, so it's possible you will change your mind in the future.

Last edited by rcohen; Today at 07:07 AM.
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post #37934 of 37935 Old Today, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundSparks View Post
Could you please help me to understand if the sensitivity quoted at “2.0 volts, free air” is the same as quoted at “2.0 V at 3.3 ft, free air”, is the same as quoted at “1 W at 1 m”, and in case of the 210RT’s is 95 dB?
Actually, this is a very tricky question thanks to the marketing departments of large manufactures. The 1w doesn't tell you how many volts was applied. If the sensitivity spec is 1w than it could be based off the average impedance or the normalized impedance. The "normalized" impedance is based off the minimum resistance and is used to properly match an amplifier to a speaker. The minimum impedance shouldn't be less than 70% of the normalized impedance (4 ohm = 2.8 ohm). So, if you see a speaker that is rated at 8 ohm but has a minimum impedance of 3.1 ohm than it's really a 4 ohm speaker even though is might have an 8 ohm average impedance. If a speaker has a normalized 4 ohm impedance than 2.0 volts would normally be 1 watt however if that normalized 4 ohm speaker has an average impedance of 10 ohms than 3.16 volts would equal an average of 1 watt (2.5 watts at 4 ohm).

Speakers benefit from boundary gain. If a speaker is rated at ground plane (1/2 space) than the measurement would be 6db higher than a free air (full space) measurement. Just to throw a wrench in the mix, some manufactures are using an "axial" spec which is 3db more than free air and 3db less than ground plane.

So, a 2.0 volt, free air spec will result in the lowest number of all other ways of rating the sensitivity of a 4 ohm speaker which is why customers have noted that the Noesis 212HTR (101db/1m/2.0v, free air) was more sensitive than speakers with a 104db/1w/3.3ft rating (1m = 3.3ft).

Even still, JTR is going to adjust its specs. The Noesis 212 was measured at 105db, 2.0v, halfspace by Data-Bass which would be 99db, 2.0v, free air or 102db, 2.83v, free air or 102db, 2.0v, axial or 105db, 2.83v, axial. The Noesis 215 was measured at 100db, 2.0v, halfspace by Data-Bass which would be 94db, 2.0db, free air or 97db, 2.83v, free air or 97db, 2.0v, axial.

To be the most transparent, I think we are going to list several different ratings so that people can compare them to others.
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Last edited by Jeff Permanian; Today at 07:14 AM.
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post #37935 of 37935 Old Today, 07:21 AM
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I am using a Parasound A51 with 212s, and I felt that the high bias A51s had smoother treble than other amps I tried. Maybe I am on crack (comparing amps is sketchy territory), or maybe it had something to do with mixing class A and JTRs. Still, maybe your Pass Labs amps will yield similarly pleasing results? I'd certainly try them before considering anything beefier.

BTW, the extra 6db efficiency in the 212s is equivalent to quadrupling your amp power! Just the thing if you love your amps. Maybe a custom finish will ease the WAF. As previously said, it probably isn't needed for your listening levels and small room, but something to consider. 210RTs may indeed be the best compromise, overall.
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