Official JTR speaker thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum
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post #3871 of 22601 Old 03-28-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

I can't go crazy in this room, a lot of the reason I want Audyssey XT32, but I CAN do some acoustic panels and bass traps. If the front wall needs to be completely covered in acoustic panels if the speakers are built into the wall, then I'll do that. Other then that, a couple of acoustic panels appropriately placed on the side walls and back walls and bass traps in the corner. I'll try and get some pics up of the room tomorrow. I just got finished working down there from the minute I got home from work at 3. It's now 9:30. This is a lot of work lmao


If you have a chance to look back at post 3533 you can see that I cut a hole in my basement wall (outside wall)for my T8lp center channel. The entire front wall is treated with 4" material and/or finished bass traps from Acousticmac. Measuring before and after showed that it remedied my 125hz peak at the listening position (and nulls in other parts of the room). It worked out really good in my setup.

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post #3872 of 22601 Old 03-28-2012, 07:07 PM
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Your material was 4" thick??? Damn, I've only seen/heard of 1 and 2 inches on these forums. What thickness should I go with do you think?

Just checked out your post. How much did those panels cost you, if you don't mind me asking? I have to cover a wall that's about 7 feet high and 13 feet wide
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post #3873 of 22601 Old 03-28-2012, 08:54 PM
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Different thickness will absorb different frequencies. Call a pro to help you out. Several have mentioned calling GIK Acoustics,this sounds like very resonable advice.
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post #3874 of 22601 Old 03-28-2012, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Different thickness will absorb different frequencies. Call a pro to help you out. Several have mentioned calling GIK Acoustics,this sounds like very resonable advice.

Yeah, I mentioned Bryan from GIK Acoustics, he helped me out tremendously and was always patient with my questions.

Good customer service like Bryan offers is rare these days.

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post #3875 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 02:43 AM
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No doubt, I'll be giving him a call. Thanks for all the advice
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post #3876 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

If you have a chance to look back at post 3533 you can see that I cut a hole in my basement wall (outside wall)for my T8lp center channel. The entire front wall is treated with 4" material and/or finished bass traps from Acousticmac. Measuring before and after showed that it remedied my 125hz peak at the listening position (and nulls in other parts of the room). It worked out really good in my setup.

On an unrelated note, what stands were you using for your front T12's? They looks like they were made for that speaker, making it look like one tall speaker lol. Something like that would be perfect for me for my left and right speakers.
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post #3877 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

On an unrelated note, what stands were you using for your front T12's? They looks like they were made for that speaker, making it look like one tall speaker lol. Something like that would be perfect for me for my left and right speakers.

Those stands were made by Jeff for the T12lp, thats why fit so well. They also have a fill port so you can easily fill them with about 80lbs of sand. That plus the almost 100lb weight of the speaker is quite the solid piee of work!! If you give him a call I'm sure he can get you what ever size you need.

As for the acoustic panels, I received really good customer service and advice from Acoutimac, I've never worked with the other guys but I've heard good things about them too. I ended up using 4" panels with a 2" gap between them and the wall. I did this by placing 2" thick wood strips onto the wall and them attaching the panels to those. I did this because I had already determined a problem at 125hz. They (and others) also make traps 6" thick for even lower frequency dampening. In the end I may still like to have a professional come over and do a full assessment of the room. Sounds pretty good now but always curious if I could improve it.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
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post #3878 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

Those stands were made by Jeff for the T12lp, thats why fit so well. They also have a fill port so you can easily fill them with about 80lbs of sand. That plus the almost 100lb weight of the speaker is quite the solid piee of work!! If you give him a call I'm sure he can get you what ever size you need.

As for the acoustic panels, I received really good customer service and advice from Acoutimac, I've never worked with the other guys but I've heard good things about them too. I ended up using 4" panels with a 2" gap between them and the wall. I did this by placing 2" thick wood strips onto the wall and them attaching the panels to those. I did this because I had already determined a problem at 125hz. They (and others) also make traps 6" thick for even lower frequency dampening. In the end I may still like to have a professional come over and do a full assessment of the room. Sounds pretty good now but always curious if I could improve it.

Oh wow, Yeah I gotta ask Jeff about a stand like that. Maybe I can make one myself like that lol.

For my room, I'm just concentrating on the whole front wall for now. The entire area behind the screen is gonna have acoustic panels, which will actually serve a dual purpose. Someone said the wall behind an acoustically transparent screen has to be black, and the wall is not going to be black lol, but the acoustic panels will be so it should be like killing 2 birds with one stone. I'm gonna have the T12's crossed over at 80Hz, so I'm guessing that means I only need a material thick enough to absorb sounds 80Hz and above?

I check out GIK Acoustics and I also e-mailed them. I didn't get a response yet. They have an acoustic panel that absorbs sounds down to 250Hz, and is a "2 inch panel (3.5 inches thick)." I would assume I need thicker for below 250Hz, which is probably what I'll need. I'm guessing 4 inches thick.

As you all said, I'm gonna speak with Brian at GIK and see what he recommends. I'm only treating the front wall FOR NOW. I want some money left over for some new toys lol.
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post #3879 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

I'm gonna have the T12's crossed over at 80Hz, so I'm guessing that means I only need a material thick enough to absorb sounds 80Hz and above?

I check out GIK Acoustics and I also e-mailed them. I didn't get a response yet. They have an acoustic panel that absorbs sounds down to 250Hz, and is a "2 inch panel (3.5 inches thick)." I would assume I need thicker for below 250Hz, which is probably what I'll need. I'm guessing 4 inches thick.

As you all said, I'm gonna speak with Brian at GIK and see what he recommends. I'm only treating the front wall FOR NOW. I want some money left over for some new toys lol.

The frequency or the thickness of the panel is determined by your room not your speaker. Or where you set the crossover.
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post #3880 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ifor View Post

The frequency or the thickness of the panel is determined by your room not your speaker. Or where you set the crossover.

By whichever frequency spikes there may be which are caused by the room. But from what I gather, the entire front wall needs to be treated to cause no reflection of any sound that comes out of the speaker that is built into a cubby in the wall. So if the speaker is playing frequencies from 80Hz and above, all frequencies from 80Hz and above would have to be absorbed in order for them not to be reflected.

I was told if you don't do this, the entire front wall that the speaker is built into will act as a baffle. I believe a page or two back is where I was told.
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post #3881 of 22601 Old 03-29-2012, 07:32 PM
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You will want to refer to Dennis Erskine for acoustical advice as well. He is very open to helping here in AVS.

He hangs out in the Triad thread often. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...21427&page=134
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post #3882 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 08:29 AM
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I was just looking through the older posts in this thread, and on page 22, post number 653, a post stated that the Triple 8's are actually better then the Triple 12's and that Jeff also confirmed and recommended the Triple 8's over the Triple 12's? He didn't provide any other details, but I'm curious as to why that is.

Here's a link back to page 22. Scroll down to post 653:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...165099&page=22
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post #3883 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 02:42 PM
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I finally had a chance to do a side by side comparison of my t12 and t8 and found the difference very minimal. Now i've decided to keep the t8's as l/r and just gonna go with t8's as surrounds. I would think if my room was larger i may think different. My room is around 2600 cubic ft.
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post #3884 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

I was just looking through the older posts in this thread, and on page 22, post number 653, a post stated that the Triple 8's are actually better then the Triple 12's and that Jeff also confirmed and recommended the Triple 8's over the Triple 12's? He didn't provide any other details, but I'm curious as to why that is.

Here's a link back to page 22. Scroll down to post 653:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...165099&page=22

You are reading into that statement as we have no idea what context it was taken from. Jeff could have just meant it was better for him personally in his room, we don't know.
For the record, when I was buying stuff, Jeff told me he liked the T12's better but recommended the T8's for my room. I still went with the 12's

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post #3885 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoop View Post

I finally had a chance to do a side by side comparison of my t12 and t8 and found the difference very minimal. Now i've decided to keep the t8's as l/r and just gonna go with t8's as surrounds. I would think if my room was larger i may think different. My room is around 2600 cubic ft.

This minimal differences, what were they? Did one have a slightly fuller sound or a bit more "punch?"

Getting the T8's would save a bit of money as well. The room they will be going in is 25 by 14 with 7 foot ceilings lol.
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post #3886 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 04:13 PM
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You are reading into that statement as we have no idea what context it was taken from. Jeff could have just meant it was better for him personally in his room, we don't know.
For the record, when I was buying stuff, Jeff told me he liked the T12's better but recommended the T8's for my room. I still went with the 12's

That's what I was thinking but I couldn't find if the poster clarified this anywhere. He simply stated Jeff says the T8's are better, with no reason or more info behind it.

With that being said, two more questions popped into my head today, and I'm sure most of you are damn sick of the millions of questions I've asked, but there's an encyclopedia of knowledge on here, I can't help but get carried away sometimes lol.

First question is, why doesn't Jeff use an acoustically transparent dust cap on Triple 12's but DOES use them on the Triple 8's? Wouldn't it clean up the look a tad bit more on the T12's, or is there a functional reason for this?

Second is, I can't find a review or even impression on the Quintuple ANYWHERE, not through google, or searching on here. Has anybody heard the JTR quintuple? How does it compare to the Triple 8's and the Triple 12's? The sheer amount of drivers definitely has a sex appeal about it, but how does it sound?
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post #3887 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 05:26 PM
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I have Quintuple's for my L&R, Center and 6 Triple 8's for surrounds. Quint's have excellent mid bass.
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post #3888 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

That's what I was thinking but I couldn't find if the poster clarified this anywhere. He simply stated Jeff says the T8's are better, with no reason or more info behind it.

With that being said, two more questions popped into my head today, and I'm sure most of you are damn sick of the millions of questions I've asked, but there's an encyclopedia of knowledge on here, I can't help but get carried away sometimes lol.

First question is, why doesn't Jeff use an acoustically transparent dust cap on Triple 12's but DOES use them on the Triple 8's? Wouldn't it clean up the look a tad bit more on the T12's, or is there a functional reason for this?

Second is, I can't find a review or even impression on the Quintuple ANYWHERE, not through google, or searching on here. Has anybody heard the JTR quintuple? How does it compare to the Triple 8's and the Triple 12's? The sheer amount of drivers definitely has a sex appeal about it, but how does it sound?

Bsoko2 has the quintuples, you may want to reach out to him. He seems quite fond of them.


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3 Submersive HP's and 3 Quintuples, 6 Triple 8's in a 6000+ cu ft open room. Mid range bass is incredible!


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post #3889 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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Did you hear them compared to the Triple 12's? Are they the same clarity wise? The Triple 12's seem to get the most glory being the big bad kid on the street.
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post #3890 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 06:41 PM
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May sound strange, but we found the t8 more detailed then the t12... No idea why. The t12 was fuller, more sound, maybe it was the bass, but didn't seem more detailed. Hope that makes sense. Iam sticking with the t8's. I still think if i had a larger room, i would go with the t12's.

The t8's imo would do it for most people. Plays loud and with detail and sounds fantastic! If you got a super sized space, then the t12 may make sense.

For reference, i had klipsch kl650, ed c12's and aperions. The t8's are my personal favorite and think iam finally done upgrading my front stage. Surrounds next.
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post #3891 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcoop View Post

May sound strange, but we found the t8 more detailed then the t12... No idea why. The t12 was fuller, more sound, maybe it was the bass, but didn't seem more detailed. Hope that makes sense. Iam sticking with the t8's. I still think if i had a larger room, i would go with the t12's.

The t8's imo would do it for most people. Plays loud and with detail and sounds fantastic! If you got a super sized space, then the t12 may make sense.

For reference, i had klipsch kl650, ed c12's and aperions. The t8's are my personal favorite and think iam finally done upgrading my front stage. Surrounds next.

So would you say that the quintuple would have the detail of the T8, and also the fullness, and other strengths of the T12?
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post #3892 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:05 PM
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I guess thats very possible assuming they are the same drivers with 2 extra ones. They also go lower. But all speculation since i personally never heard the quin.
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post #3893 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
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I guess thats very possible assuming they are the same drivers with 2 extra ones. They also go lower. But all speculation since i personally never heard the quin.

Maybe someone who has heard the quintuple, T8's and T12's can chime in. It does make sense that the T8's may have a bit more detail then the T12's with slightly smaller, more easily controlled drivers. They probably have an easier time with the higher mid frequencies, especially right before the crossover point to the CD.
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post #3894 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:32 PM
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Who knows what the crossover specs are, but it would seem that a 12" midrange driver is a bit larger than ideal with respect to dispersion. It would tend to get beamy in the upper part of it's range. The 8" would be able to maintain better dispersion higher up into the midrange area. That might tend to allow the T8 to have better detail.
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post #3895 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:37 PM
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I doubt there are many who have heard all of them........Jeff certainly. Obviously though, only your ears will be the true test and let's face it......you're probably not going to be able to listen to them all. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the 3. I've only had the T8s and haven't heard the 12s or quints. I got the T8s because they were the least expensive and I knew they still have way more output than I'd ever use. I think they sound fantastic and now have a full JTR setup. Had I purchased the T12s or quints, I'm sure I'd be sayIng the same thing though.

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post #3896 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:43 PM
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. And an 8 inch driver is quicker also, as in it's ability to start and stop is greater then a 12" driver, and the starting/stopping quickness would result in better clarity.

Maybe Jeff could chime in with his thoughts on this.

Are you guys referring to the older midrange/crossover/CD's or the newest T12HT's with the newest components when you compare the T12 to the T8?
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post #3897 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:53 PM
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I have the newer t12 and t8. Like others have said, i would think either of the three would put a smile on someones face.
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post #3898 of 22601 Old 04-01-2012, 07:58 PM
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The quickness theory doesn't actually hold up. A 12" designed to be a midrange will have no problem moving fast enough to accurately cover anything that might fall within midrange frequencies, but dispersion issues are simply a matter of wavelength vs. cone size. As the midrange wavelengths become small relative to the cone size, the sound begins to beam more and more. The higher the crossover is to the tweeter, the worse the problem gets. I would think that a 12" cone is going to get beamy by 1000hz.
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post #3899 of 22601 Old 04-02-2012, 12:57 AM
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Brent Butterworth of Sound & Vision:
"crossing a tweeter over to a woofer any larger than 6.5 inches in diameter almost always causes dispersion problems and nasty “cupped hands” coloration, as if singers had their hands cupped around their mouths."

It's that larger diameter drivers generally have a harder time producing the higher frequencies to match the crossover point of anywhere between 2kHz and 3kHz.
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post #3900 of 22601 Old 04-02-2012, 01:09 AM
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You can look at the differences between JBLs 2 drivers. A 8" http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...pe=3&docid=867 and a 12" http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...pe=3&docid=865. Check out the differences between the 2 in the conical off-axis responses around the 1.5kHz mark, much larger aberration on the 12".
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