Official JTR speaker thread - Page 134 - AVS Forum
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post #3991 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Seems right, 2 of them can add anywhere from 3-6dbs. 95 dBs for me clean was from 15 feet away which I lost 10 dbs from the speaker. My room loses 12 dbs at 14 feet so that room is easier to get loud.

Wow, I figured the Sigs would be able to go quite a bit louder then the Monitors. And mine are underpowered to, they got a little bit left in them, maybe 2-3db or so. I think the power handling is 180, and I'm sure they aren't getting the full 105 Marantz claims, considering manufacturer claims are usually higher then real world numbers.
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post #3992 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I blew my Sig tweeters as well. 400 watt amp, not a clean power issue.

That's a shame then. Which model/version? If it's the S8, don't they claim 500 watt power handling?
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post #3993 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

That's a shame then. Which model/version? If it's the S8, don't they claim 500 watt power handling?

I bet 500 watts will fry them but the 8's have extra drivers. Still only one tweeter and that is the problem.

Anyways, I have always said sounding great is easy, just buy a set of Magnepan MMG's for $600/pair. I say getting loud is easy, just buy any PA speaker at your local music store. The hard part is combining the two! Triad Platinums can play 124 dbs(according to specs) and sound great doing so but they cost what? Enter JTR, they come close in the sound at a much lower cost. There are others out there as well now but that was the point of my speaker shootout! I want great sound and the dynamics for reference levels. If I wanted great sound only I would have kept the maggies and sat in one spot. I told my cousin to be careful with those Paradigms because they don't handle as much power as you would think, I guess he thought I was wrong, now he has two blown tweeters he wanted to blame on the powerful amp he was using. My local paradigm dealer told my friend that he blows up his tweeters because he needs more power! They sold him the sunfire amp he is using with them. They recommended the sunfire signature amp that is 800 watts rather than 400 watts. He told me what do I think and I said those speakers can't handle 200 watts nevermind 800 watts. They told him his sunfire was clipping and that is why his tweeters blew, I told him no, the sunfire blew up your tweeters because you turned it up too much. Anyways I let him borrow my M&K S-5000's which can play much louder and he loved them except he fried their tweeters as well which I found out later. This is the guy I bought the JTR 888's for with dual Cap1000's(his paradigms had built in powered subs which he liked) and powered by all Ada gear! I told him if he blows these up that means he will be pushing over 123 dBs and his ears should give out first! I told him I can get him even more headroom with a more powerful amp but he said he did not want to spend too much. I told him really, you spend more on a bottle of wine with dinner! He said he never invested this much before on his setup that was great and I said if it was great you would not be talking to me in the first place! You gotta love people!
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post #3994 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

True, but the typical Audyssey user (me) will not really understand that paragraph.

Proper speaker positioning is an important and easy first step. Optimizing a room for sound is not something the casual hobbyist can do correctly. I think a hap hazard approach to absorption/diffusion without taking measurements may or may not be beneficial. Even then, that optimization is only for a single point in space.

The current XT32 version of Audyssey is really an amazing product for getting good to great sound (including lfe) over a larger area in average room environments. For most Home Theaters, it is the silver bullet ... IMHO

I meant we hear differently than the mic does,...so you really need to get things as sorted as possible prior to Audyssey,...then it really, really shines.

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post #3995 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post

so you really need to get things as sorted as possible prior to Audyssey,...then it really, really shines.

+1, there's a limit to how much Audyssey can polish a turd.

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post #3996 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 11:06 AM
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A lot of people dis-like audyssey and say it compresses the sound and especially for 2 channel listening, it greatly shrinks the sound stage. Could this be if Audyssey has to do too much for a terrible room, or is this something that is just true about Audyssey? Or completely untrue?
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post #3997 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

There is no better or worse, how big is your room? are the speakers going to be close to the wall? do you have a pic of your room? If you have a big enough room, the vented 12's would probably be best, the sealed 12's will offer more place to put them and you'll be able to get them closer to the wall if need be. In any case, I have my vented T12's fairly close to the wall and they are freaking great!!!!

Thanks,

My room is fairly large and the speakers will go behind my screen.

They won't be 'near wall' so vented is probably the way to go.

Oh.....one last question, where is the best placement for the compression driver for a home theater set up......in the middle or on top?

here are a couple of shots of my room


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post #3998 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Can you special order the quintuples in a sealed version?

Let us know if you talk to Jeff and find out the answer to this. I've thought about it myself.

Although, by the time you pay for a special order set of Quints plus good amplification for them, you're approaching the same price tag for a set of Seaton Catalyst 8C's or maybe even the 8ST's when they become available.
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post #3999 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Oh.....one last question, where is the best placement for the compression driver for a home theater set up......in the middle or on top?

Which ever location puts the CD closest to ear level. In my set up, I've moved the CDs to the middle position, which when the speakers are placed on stands behind my screen, puts them close to ear level.

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post #4000 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post

Let us know if you talk to Jeff and find out the answer to this. I've thought about it myself.

Although, by the time you pay for a special order set of Quints plus good amplification for them, you're approaching the same price tag for a set of Seaton Catalyst 8C's or maybe even the 8ST's when they become available.

Are the Seaton Catalysts "better" then the JTR speakers? I'm curious, not being a smart ass
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post #4001 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post


Let us know if you talk to Jeff and find out the answer to this. I've thought about it myself.

Although, by the time you pay for a special order set of Quints plus good amplification for them, you're approaching the same price tag for a set of Seaton Catalyst 8C's or maybe even the 8ST's when they become available.

You know... I've been debating this same thing for a while now. The seatons are very tempting being active DSP but cost a pretty penny. No doubt there probably worth it. Just not sure how much better they'd be over JTR's. For roughly 3K more for the 8C's over the T12's or Quints it's not that much more when you consider amps. Decisions.... I hate them.
Really looking forward to the speaker shoot out in Wisconsin that Jeff is going to be at with some T12's. If mark could have some Cats there that would anawesome comparison.
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post #4002 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Are the Seaton Catalysts "better" then the JTR speakers? I'm curious, not being a smart ass

I currently own T8's and a Submersive HP, but I've never heard Catalysts before. Based on everything I've read, they are "better" and the next step up, but obviously when you get into products and components of this level and price point, the law of diminishing returns kicks in very quickly. I think the Catalysts would provide a little more resolution/detail, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I do know there is a guy on this forum (screenname Fugueness) who is a filmmaker and has owned both JTR and Seaton setups, as well as Aerial Acoustics and some other high-end systems, and from what I've read, he swears by the Seaton system and says it trumps everything he's owned previously. Maybe he'll see this and chime in with his experience between the two.
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post #4003 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Really looking forward to the speaker shoot out in Wisconsin that Jeff is going to be at with some T12's. If mark could have some Cats there that would anawesome comparison.

When and where is that? That would be worth a weekend road trip from Cincinnati.
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post #4004 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post

I currently own T8's and a Submersive HP, but I've never heard Catalysts before. Based on everything I've read, they are "better" and the next step up, but obviously when you get into products and components of this level and price point, the law of diminishing returns kicks in very quickly. I think the Catalysts would provide a little more resolution/detail, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I do know there is a guy on this forum (screenname Fugueness) who is a filmmaker and has owned both JTR and Seaton setups, as well as Aerial Acoustics and some other high-end systems, and from what I've read, he swears by the Seaton system and says it trumps everything he's owned previously. Maybe he'll see this and chime in with his experience between the two.

Thats very interesting. Hopefully he does chime in, I'd like to hear his detailed thoughts on them
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post #4005 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post


When and where is that? That would be worth a weekend road trip from Cincinnati.

Well it's actually a GTG. There's a thread about it in the speaker section
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post #4006 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 02:42 PM
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SE WI tower speaker GTG
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post #4007 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Skillet View Post

I currently own T8's and a Submersive HP, but I've never heard Catalysts before. Based on everything I've read, they are "better" and the next step up, but obviously when you get into products and components of this level and price point, the law of diminishing returns kicks in very quickly. I think the Catalysts would provide a little more resolution/detail, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I do know there is a guy on this forum (screenname Fugueness) who is a filmmaker and has owned both JTR and Seaton setups, as well as Aerial Acoustics and some other high-end systems, and from what I've read, he swears by the Seaton system and says it trumps everything he's owned previously. Maybe he'll see this and chime in with his experience between the two.

I found him and PM-ed him. Thanks for the screen name!
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post #4008 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 02:51 PM
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Blackdevil77-
I read his thread awhile back not sure if was on here or seatons forum. He went from the t12's to the catalysts 12's and from what I remember was a major upgrade in his opinion. Those Cat12's are up there in price compared to the t12's. I'm interested in comparison between the T12 vs cat8
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post #4009 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Blackdevil77-
I read his thread awhile back not sure if was on here or seatons forum. He went from the t12's to the catalysts 12's and from what I remember was a major upgrade in his opinion. Those Cat12's are up there in price compared to the t12's. I'm interested in comparison between the T12 vs cat8

Yes, but the Cats are powered, so the extra they would cost, you can save on the amp, since you don't have to buy one. Unless, of course, you have an amp already. I would of had to buy one with the T12s anyway. Basically, I can either get the Cat 12s or the T12s. I'm doing some searching now for his thread.
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post #4010 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:05 PM
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It's not really fair to compare the T12's to the Cat 12's, they are more than double the price! Though I really would like to hear a set of cat 12's to I could make my own opinion lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #4011 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:08 PM
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Yes, but the Cats are powered, so the extra they would cost, you can save on the amp, since you don't have to buy one. Unless, of course, you have an amp already. I would of had to buy one with the T12s anyway. Basically, I can either get the Cat 12s or the T12s. I'm doing some searching now for his thread.

Yea I get they are active with a built in DSP but for LCR they would be an extra 6K over the T12's. That way more than getting amps to power the JTR's. I'm just wondering like everyone else, is the SQ THAT much better
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post #4012 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:20 PM
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Just did the math. It would be a total of an extra 3k more for me with the amp I wanted to buy. 3k more, and 2000 watts a speaker instead of 450 lol. Not like I would need it, and I'm sure the T12s with 450 watts would go about as loud as the Cat 12s. The T12's are insanely efficient.

Once again, for a hobby were hearing the speakers is everything, HEARING THE DAMN SPEAKERS HAS PROVEN TO BE MISSION IMPOSSIBLE!
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post #4013 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:46 PM
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If I were going to put down that kind of cash on speakers, I would be on a flight out to MI for that GTG next weekend. But that's just me

Not saying you should do it...

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post #4014 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

If I were going to put down that kind of cash on speakers, I would be on a flight out to MI for that GTG next weekend. But that's just me

Not saying you should do it...

I would do that in a second but I got a lot going on over here that I can't leave with work.
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post #4015 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 03:49 PM
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Where are your priorities!!

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post #4016 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 04:07 PM
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If I were going to put down that kind of cash on speakers, I would be on a flight out to MI for that GTG next weekend. But that's just me

Not saying you should do it...

Ok, I'll say it ... Do it!

But seriously, I listened to the Triple 12's before I bought them. I bought my first T12's from Fugueness. They had the clarity and dynamics I was looking for in a speaker. He has since "upgraded" to Catalysts and is very happy. I have heard the Catalysts several times and they are really great speakers.

I have purchased new T12's since the original buy (sold the originals to a friend who loves them) and actually have new crossovers coming for my 2011 T12 LCR's that will bring them up to the 2012 models sound wise. This field upgradability is one of the very cool things about the JTR's. Jeff is always looking for better sound out of his designs and we owners can usually upgrade components (crossovers/drivers) in the enclosure for much less than buying new. I like that a lot!

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post #4017 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 04:28 PM
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I'm running dual Sunfire Signature amps (one at 405 and one at 200 wpc @ 8 ohms and double that with the JTR's at 4 ohms). 810 wpc for the Quintuples and front wide Tirple 8 surrounds, 400 wpc for the rest of the surrounds that are Triple 8's. Volume for some BD movies at -4 on my Pio SC-57 with not problems and smooth audio with plenty of mid bass. Of course, trple Submersives do help!
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post #4018 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Ok, I'll say it ... Do it!

But seriously, I listened to the Triple 12's before I bought them. I bought my first T12's from Fugueness. They had the clarity and dynamics I was looking for in a speaker. He has since "upgraded" to Catalysts and is very happy. I have heard the Catalysts several times and they are really great speakers.

I have purchased new T12's since the original buy (sold the originals to a friend who loves them) and actually have new crossovers coming for my 2011 T12 LCR's that will bring them up to the 2012 models sound wise. This field upgradability is one of the very cool things about the JTR's. Jeff is always looking for better sound out of his designs and we owners can usually upgrade components (crossovers/drivers) in the enclosure for much less than buying new. I like that a lot!

The way Fugueness described the Catalysts, he makes it sound like the JTR's with a bit more of an audiophile speaker touch to the sound. I found his thread, he said the T12's had a bit more mid-range "punch" and were more "in your face," he said the dynamics were very similar, but the cats excelled in the mids and highs and he kept saying the word "crystalline" came to mind. As to how dramatic the difference is, I don't know, I didn't hear them, or any damn speaker I've been looking at for that matter but it sounds appealing. Luckily its not do or die time lol.

I would LOVE to go to the GTG and would in a second. There's just way too much for me to leave on this short notice.
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post #4019 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Really looking forward to the speaker shoot out in Wisconsin that Jeff is going to be at with some T12's. If mark could have some Cats there that would anawesome comparison.

I have the T12's and live in Chicago, where Mark lives. Maybe we can make this happen in the summer-time, if Mark would be interested.

Mark
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post #4020 of 22733 Old 04-06-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

Really looking forward to the speaker shoot out in Wisconsin that Jeff is going to be at with some T12's. If mark could have some Cats there that would anawesome comparison.

Actually, why don't you ask him! I'm sure Nuance would love for him to come and bring the Cats there as well!
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