Official JTR speaker thread - Page 433 - AVS Forum
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post #12961 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Helheim View Post

What's going to be better 212HT-LP or 210T for LCR?
The situation and user preferences combined with desired goals and expectations will be the difference.
Speaker vs Speaker one is not better than the other.smile.gif
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post #12962 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

That was indeed the section I wanted you to see (that you bolded). Just kep the rest for context.

Thanks Frohlich smile.gif It seems the more I learn about these issues, the less I know ... wink.gif

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post #12963 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

I'm thinking 210t LCR now. Oh my wtf! My wife's gonna kill me! So 210 LCR with quad Cap S2 overkill? Either way I really want a demo first. Any of you attending Axpona 2014? Wondering how far is Jeff's shop from Rosemont.

I'm not seeing how the proposed 210T would best the 212HT's...

 

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post #12964 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Sure, it can work...


This stands as the most salient post on the topic ... tongue.gif

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post #12965 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I'm not seeing how the proposed 210T would best the 212HT's...

Better for 2 channel (no sub) use ... that is all.

And, I understand how that point eludes YOU! tongue.gif

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post #12966 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I'm not seeing how the proposed 210T would best the 212HT's...
If you wanted a 40hz XO. Other than that it would be best for the situation.
In rhed's scenario I would roll with the 3TX or 212HT.
Chris
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post #12967 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post

Chances are I am wrong but could some one then confirm that bass management below the x-over point including the integration with the specific LFE channel is available for the speakers.

I had thought that there was no room correction applied to the speakers below the x-over point in play, and if the mains are playing the same frequencies as the subs then wouldn't there be some crazy room nodes created that are not managed?

Not necessarily room nodes, but cancellation between speakers. This is where audyssey fails miserably at times: actually time aligning the mains and subs properly. Let's take a look at how destructive this mis-alignment can be. Take a look at the huge dip I had in response when running my mains full range with subs on as well:



This is a huge problem that has to be addressed by either doing the Audyssey sub distance tweak, or measuring your gear and adjusting the delay with an outboard processor.

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Originally Posted by staaled View Post

Just use no subs and all LFE content will be directed to speakers set to large. Or am I missing something ?

LFE content that was mixed specifically and only into the LFE channel will not redirect to the mains.

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post #12968 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

thats a very vague question, without knowing what your listening preferences are and what the rest of your system consists of.

Building a dedicated HT room approx 13'x17' will be mainly for movies with a bit of music. Currently only keeping a Rythmik FV15HP from my bonus room setup but could change that out too.

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post #12969 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

That was indeed the section I wanted you to see (that you bolded). Just kep the rest for context.

I am 100% against CraigJohn's post regarding the bolded part. I have yet to EVER see this happen.

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post #12970 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Not necessarily room nodes, but cancellation between speakers. This is where audyssey fails miserably at times: actually time aligning the mains and subs properly. Let's take a look at how destructive this mis-alignment can be. Take a look at the huge dip I had in response when running my mains full range with subs on as well:



This is a huge problem that has to be addressed by either doing the Audyssey sub distance tweak, or measuring your gear and adjusting the delay with an outboard processor.
LFE content that was mixed specifically and only into the LFE channel will not redirect to the mains.

You need to read DD's post (with examples) above ... wink.gif

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post #12971 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:28 AM
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I did read that post. So let me rephrase my comment:

Without using an HTPC or outboard DSP of some sort, and solely relying on the settings inside of AVR's and Pre's, the LFE content WILL NOT redirect to the mains. since 9 out of 10 people were assuming just setting the mains to large will do this, they would sadly be mistaken. It takes outboard work to accomplish it. I don't have an HTPC and don't plan on doing one at this point. Seems like an awful lot of work to just redirect LFE content to main speakers. hmm, actually, maybe I will look into this whole HTPC thing...Wait........Wtf just happened?
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post #12972 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

This stands as the most salient post on the topic ... tongue.gif

I'm not sure about that. I've been thinking a lot about the problem. You know, is it really possible or not? I think I've come up with a solution, but I doubt anybody is really interested in hearing about it.

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
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post #12973 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I am 100% against CraigJohn's post regarding the bolded part. I have yet to EVER see this happen.

You don't see it happen..you HEAR it happen smile.gif

I actually didn't think it worked that way either but he is pretty knowledgeable overall....plus he has Triad Plats so take that!!!! smile.gif
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post #12974 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helheim View Post

Building a dedicated HT room approx 13'x17' will be mainly for movies with a bit of music. Currently only keeping a Rythmik FV15HP from my bonus room setup but could change that out too.

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No one has heard the new 210T to know for sure but I think overall they would be very similar speakers sharing the same compression driver and maybe only a slightly different wave guide. In the end I think it comes down to how low it plays. The 212 really is only meant to play down to 70HZ or so. The 210 will likely play down to around 35-40HZ. If you have a sub, and are mostly into HT, then the 212 would fit the bill nicely.
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post #12975 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

You don't see it happen..you HEAR it happen smile.gif

I actually didn't think it worked that way either but he is pretty knowledgeable overall....plus he has Triad Plats so take that!!!! smile.gif

And what is it exactly you "hear?"

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post #12976 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 12:50 PM
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Amazing what happens in this forum after not being able to read through it since Sunday....

The 215 looks impressive....but I am glad they are so big because I can't put them in my current room configuration. biggrin.gif

This way I won't be able to consider them anytime soon...
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post #12977 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

I'm thinking 210t LCR now. Oh my wtf! My wife's gonna kill me! So 210 LCR with quad Cap S2 overkill? Either way I really want a demo first. Any of you attending Axpona 2014? Wondering how far is Jeff's shop from Rosemont.

I'm not seeing how the proposed 210T would best the 212HT's...

Better for 2 channel (no sub) use ... that is all.

And, I understand how that point eludes YOU! tongue.gif

lol...He's got QUAD S2's! He's going to need everything can possibly get above 80Hz if he want's to hang with those basterds...
tongue.gif

Unless I missed somewhere that he mentioned 2 channel (no sub) was a preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


If you wanted a 40hz XO. Other than that it would be best for the situation.
In rhed's scenario I would roll with the 3TX or 212HT.
Chris

+1

If a 40Hz cross is what rhed so desires, then go for it. I'm confident the 210T's will be epic, but given rhed's ridiculousness in the sub department, I don't see why such a low cross would be necessary and/or beneficial to his particular situation. The 212HT's just seem likely to be better suited for his particular application (IMO).

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I did read that post. So let me rephrase my comment:

Without using an HTPC or outboard DSP of some sort, and solely relying on the settings inside of AVR's and Pre's, the LFE content WILL NOT redirect to the mains. since 9 out of 10 people were assuming just setting the mains to large will do this, they would sadly be mistaken. It takes outboard work to accomplish it. I don't have an HTPC and don't plan on doing one at this point. Seems like an awful lot of work to just redirect LFE content to main speakers. hmm, actually, maybe I will look into this whole HTPC thing...Wait........Wtf just happened?

Ha! A few months back a discussion on Chop's SEOSR thread really got my wheels turning and DD sent me a quick outline of JRMedia Center. It's freakin awesome and blows the capabiliity of the miniDSP (among other things) away. I'll send you the PM now.

 

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post #12978 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 03:20 PM
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I talked to Jeff's secretary Jeff smile.gif and placed an order tonight for 4 slanted 8's. I gotta say that I am perty excited! Yehaaaaa
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post #12979 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I talked to Jeff's secretary Jeff smile.gif and placed an order tonight for 4 slanted 8's. I gotta say that I am perty excited! Yehaaaaa

You're gonna love em. I told the story before but I used a Slanted 8 as center channel along with my Triple 8LP's as mains while was waiting for the Noesis to arrive. The Slanted 8 did an amazing job as center channel and there is no heavier lift in HT than CC duty.

BTW, that secretary (Jeff) is one ugly woman ... tongue.gif

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post #12980 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 04:08 PM
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I got to catch up on this thread. Particularly the htpc and Jriver use. Also I am getting the impression there will be two new models of speakers? Anyway haven't had a day off in 14 days so my AVS time has fallen drastically as of recent.
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post #12981 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 04:32 PM
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I actually may be more interested in the 110T! hummmm I kinda though it was gonna be one or the other!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #12982 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You're gonna love em. I told the story before but I used a Slanted 8 as center channel along with my Triple 8LP's as mains while was waiting for the Noesis to arrive. The Slanted 8 did an amazing job as center channel and there is no heavier lift in HT than CC duty.

BTW, that secretary (Jeff) is one ugly woman ... tongue.gif

I second these statements! I think that many home theater systems have surround speakers that are far too weak for high level playback. I was at my parents house last weekend and my dad has a better than average HT setup with good quality wharfedale speakers and a Velodyne DD15 sub in a moderately sized room. We were watching movies around -10 to -15db from reference and while the front soundstage had no issues at these volumes I could hear distortion coming from his dipole surrounds. The distortion caused ear discomfort and made the move "sound" far louder than we were actually playing it. Owning JTR gear is actually a curse as you travel around and listen to other people's theaters and are constantly distracted by their gear getting in the way of the movie! With the Slanted 8's you don't have to worry about cranking the volume knob and overpowering your surrounds; they are hugely dynamic and will downright scare you on a movie with good mixing!

I think I've already said it a few times in this thread but every time I hear HT's with standard speakers they always sound like HT's, there is a certain sound signature that they can't escape and you are constantly reminded that you are watching it at home. When watching the same movie with unlimited headroom the sound opens up and the entire experience changes. We went and watched 2Guns a couple weeks ago at a commercial theater and my wife turned to me and said "is that it?" "this theater sounds weak!" smile.gif
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post #12983 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 06:02 PM
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Yes, one of the reasons I want to do the crossover and driver upgrade on my 2008 triple 8's. I meant they sound good as is, but I have experienced that really cool plane landing scene in Oblivion with 4 triple 8's on surround duty and it put a smile on your face!
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post #12984 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yes, one of the reasons I want to do the crossover and driver upgrade on my 2008 triple 8's. I meant they sound good as is, but I have experienced that really cool plane landing scene in Oblivion with 4 triple 8's on surround duty and it put a smile on your face!

LOL!
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post #12985 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Brady84 View Post

I second these statements! I think that many home theater systems have surround speakers that are far too weak for high level playback. I was at my parents house last weekend and my dad has a better than average HT setup with good quality wharfedale speakers and a Velodyne DD15 sub in a moderately sized room. We were watching movies around -10 to -15db from reference and while the front soundstage had no issues at these volumes I could hear distortion coming from his dipole surrounds. The distortion caused ear discomfort and made the move "sound" far louder than we were actually playing it. Owning JTR gear is actually a curse as you travel around and listen to other people's theaters and are constantly distracted by their gear getting in the way of the movie! With the Slanted 8's you don't have to worry about cranking the volume knob and overpowering your surrounds; they are hugely dynamic and will downright scare you on a movie with good mixing!

I think I've already said it a few times in this thread but every time I hear HT's with standard speakers they always sound like HT's, there is a certain sound signature that they can't escape and you are constantly reminded that you are watching it at home. When watching the same movie with unlimited headroom the sound opens up and the entire experience changes. We went and watched 2Guns a couple weeks ago at a commercial theater and my wife turned to me and said "is that it?" "this theater sounds weak!" smile.gif
Distortion even at -10dB volume? What's the make and model of those surrounds?
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post #12986 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I'm not sure about that. I've been thinking a lot about the problem. You know, is it really possible or not? I think I've come up with a solution, but I doubt anybody is really interested in hearing about it.

I'm all ears ...

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post #12987 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 09:18 PM
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Is there a market for HTPCs in high end audio these days?


My sub unscrews light bulbs, pops nails, and wakes up babies.
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post #12988 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

My initial excitement about these 215 speakers is waning a little bit for reasons very specific to my set-up. Trying to fit 2 (or 3) 72 *17*22.5 towers into my room layout just doesn't make sense. As much as I love shiny new toys logic is starting to take over. Upgrading from my T12/T8 combo to the 212 makes way more sense since I am already running a couple of JTR subs. I have the low end covered pretty well and adding more low end probably isn't the weakest link in my current set-up. There are other's parts of the set-up that probably could use an upgrade in the scheme of things.


I reserve the right to change my mind frequently over the next couple months until the 215 are released. smile.gif

For those of us who already bought the 212s, and need to save some money, perhaps just building some mid bass modules using 18 inch drivers (eg: like what n8dogg did), might get you to what a 215s do, or might even exceed it...

To be honest, my 212s with dual HSUs (15s sealed) are currently the best sounding speakers for music I have ever heard (bar none)... (this includes 100s of speakers i have had a chance to audition at audio shows... wink.gif

For those with upgraditis and lots of cash, please get the 215s quickly and let us know what you think because it might blow all expectations out of the water...haha

Also, you can then sell me your 212s for cheap because once i have moved my currently 212s into my new house, i'll no longer have then in my room where i listen to music every night... mad.gif
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post #12989 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

For those of us who already bought the 212s, and need to save some money, perhaps just building some mid bass modules using 18 inch drivers (eg: like what n8dogg did), might get you to what a 215s do, or might even exceed it...

To be honest, my 212s with dual HSUs (15s sealed) are currently the best sounding speakers for music I have ever heard (bar none)... (this includes 100s of speakers i have had a chance to audition at audio shows... wink.gif

For those with upgraditis and lots of cash, please get the 215s quickly and let us know what you think because it might blow all expectations out of the water...haha

Also, you can then sell me your 212s for cheap because once i have moved my currently 212s into my new house, i'll no longer have then in my room where i listen to music every night... mad.gif

not sure, but i think the 215 will have buyers in the 2 ch audio crowd, those with the simple source, preamp, and 2ch amplifiers, those that prefer not to use subs.
i'm itching to try the 215s out when avail, but thinking about it, i probably should not commit right away!
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post #12990 of 21414 Old 11-22-2013, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

not sure, but i think the 215 will have buyers in the 2 ch audio crowd, those with the simple source, preamp, and 2ch amplifiers, those that prefer not to use subs.
i'm itching to try the 215s out when avail, but thinking about it, i probably should not commit right away!

For sure... Although currently my personal preference is 'cinema 2 mode' on my Marantz receiver... all the vocals are sent to the center channel..... I am not very good with my english so all i can say is the sound is 'awesomeness'... it feels like the person is standing there on the stage, with 'one' source... right there in the center.... clear, big, and powerful... (Dido's my favorite for vocals by far)...
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