Official JTR speaker thread - Page 433 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12961 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

So let me get this straight... These full range speakers ideally for 2 ch use? Because I'm more of a 70 movies 30 music. I really like the height of the 210. Anyway what ever, I'm not going to get rid of my quads.

The 210 is a nice size speaker capable of just under 40Hz playback which is good enough for most music but still requires a sub woofer for serious bass playback. The 215 is a huge and heavy true full range speaker and would not need subwoofer support for music but may get into trouble on the most challenging bass tracks. I plan on using subs to support the 215 and the challenges have been pretty well discussed here. The best solution is TBD.

IMO, and considering your quad S2's, your best course may very well be getting the 212's (and S8 surrounds). You will never be lacking in any playback category.

That said, and considering my current setup, I would be smart to heed my own advice ... but where's the fun in that ... tongue.gifwink.gif

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post #12962 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

The 210 is a nice size speaker capable of just under 40Hz playback which is good enough for most music but still requires a sub woofer for serious bass playback. The 215 is a huge and heavy true full range speaker and would not need subwoofer support for music but may get into trouble on the most challenging bass tracks. I plan on using subs to support the 215 and the challenges have been pretty well discussed here. The best solution is TBD.

IMO, and considering your quad S2's, your best course may very well be getting the 212's (and S8 surrounds). You will never be lacking in any playback category.

That said, and considering my current setup, I would be smart to heed my own advice ... but where's the fun in that ... tongue.gifwink.gif

It if weren't for early adopters, where would we be!

It is very unlikely I will buy the 215's (space, WAF, live in a condo), but I am *very* interested in seeing how they turn out. Especially from a SQ standpoint (dynamics, clarity, SPL's have been discussed before :-).

It's a great project for Jeff, especially if he gets 3rd party reviews.
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post #12963 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

That said, and considering my current setup, I would be smart to heed my own advice ... but where's the fun in that ... tongue.gifwink.gif

I'll be following your HTPC integration with interest.

Although the idea of actually trying to integrate a full range speaker doesn't appeal to me, following someone else's journey does.

It's like a game of knife between the fingers http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lo3wnELUjzA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dlo3wnELUjzA. You don't want to see a bad outcome, but you just can't take your eyes off or shake the thought that it's a bad idea. biggrin.gif

Edit: To be clear, I wish you great success with this and I hope my concerns are totally unfounded. Seriously. I see how my comments could be misinterpreted.
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post #12964 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Hi Scott, I'm going to have a GTG in late March and you need to come by for a listen. Actually before that because I need help with my HTPC (I'll supply the beer).

Re the Noesis, I'm afraid they are already spoken for. smile.gif
Rob, put me down for sure to attend the GTG. I can be bought cheap (ice tea) just let me know what you are wanting and a time frame.

Bummer about the Noesis but i am really enjoying my T12s for the front and my Seaton HP + & HP slave and really need to concentrate on getting 4 slanted 8s to complete my system.

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post #12965 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 09:31 AM
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I have to admit that my wife was right this time about not using triple 8's as surrounds. My room is small and gets even smaller at the back because of a closet extending into the room, so the speakers looked funny. I think your best bet is to mount them on the walls. Luck for you KevinH had Jeff install threaded inserts that will make wall mounting them much easier.

I have exchanged a couple PMs with Kevin but I am still confused how we know these were exactly his previous speakers. It all sounds true and yes there is some thread inserts in the backs. But I am going to have my av rack on the back right side and a beefy cabinet on the left back. I will put both back there on those two different stands. I will build a custom little riser the size of the enclosure to make them even. That will probably go on the left back cabinet. This will work and not make them seem like they are dominating the back of the room. They will sit atop both the blu ray cabinet and av rack which will be just behind the backs of the seats any then 7 ft to the sides of the room

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post #12966 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Hey guys, I need some recommendations. I am gonna do an AV rack on the back right side of my room behind the seating. it will need to be about 3.5 ft tall. I only have my big Sherbourn PA 7350 amp, Denon AVR, Power conditioner, Blu Ray player, PS3, and a few other small items. Even with a few inches of ventilation they wouldn't take any more than 3ft. I figure if I can get it right at 3.5 ft then I can set my Triple 8 right surround speaker on it. I will continue to use google but I just don't know the keywords to search yet and yield some good finds biggrin.gif
I use 2 middle atlantic racks that I purchased from a online retailer called av custom racks or custom av racks - cant remember. They have many different styles and sizes.

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post #12967 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I'll be following your HTPC integration with interest.

Although the idea of actually trying to integrate a full range speaker doesn't appeal to me, following someone else's journey does.

It's like a game of knife between the fingers http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lo3wnELUjzA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dlo3wnELUjzA. You don't want to see a bad outcome, but you just can't take your eyes off or shake the thought that it's a bad idea. biggrin.gif

Edit: To be clear, I wish you great success with this and I hope my concerns are totally unfounded. Seriously. I see how my comments could be misinterpreted.

Well that's confidence inspiring ... wink.gif

It's not like I'm buying a clone amp and hoping for the best tongue.gif. as I will be using subs as well. My worst case scenario is I will have to high pass the LCR's for movies and MC music and, use the mains for 2 channel music. Not a horrible compromise ... smile.gif
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post


Rob, put me down for sure to attend the GTG. I can be bought cheap (ice tea) just let me know what you are wanting and a time frame.

Bummer about the Noesis but i am really enjoying my T12s for the front and my Seaton HP + & HP slave and really need to concentrate on getting 4 slanted 8s to complete my system.

Thanks Scott,
That is inexpensive (we never say cheap around the JTR thread tongue.gifwink.gif). An audit of my HTPC would be cool. I know I'm not getting the best out of it and since you are an expert ... smile.gif I'll PM you to discuss some date options.

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post #12968 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well that's confidence inspiring ... wink.gif

It's not like I'm buying a clone amp and hoping for the best tongue.gif. as I will be using subs as well. My worst case scenario is I will have to high pass the LCR's for movies and MC music and, use the mains for 2 channel music. Not a horrible compromise ... smile.gif

Lol, there is a lot of facetiousness(if that's a word?) in my posts, hopefully you've picked up on that. wink.gif

As you say, worst case is you highpass them for HT and get all their glory for 2 channel. Best case is you integrate them full range and have the most Uber Kick @ss home theater system in the Continental US. biggrin.gif
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post #12969 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 10:08 AM
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I purchased a 36" one of these off craigslist for like $200ish.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/b-line/products/cabinets_and_electronic_enclosures/v-line-dual-hinge.html

I love it, I wish it was the 48", but 36" works, I just have to put my AVR and P7-350 on top because I put the amps, power conditioner, and game consoles in the rack.

The smoked glass looks very nice, and the rack mount rails just are fantastic for AV gear/amps/shelves etc. It is exceptionally sturdy - I think I could dance on top of it without worrying.

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post #12970 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 10:09 AM
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Lol, there is a lot of facetiousness(if that's a word?) in my posts, hopefully you've picked up on that. wink.gif

Of course, I often take a similar approach but I'm not as funny ... smile.gif

On a side note, I just got my latest Sound and Vision Mag. I have Home Theater and S&V subscriptions still running and this is the first time I've read one of them outside of occasionally dragging one along for a long flight. My god these rags are useless. I recall it was fun reading these a few years ago but now they don't hold my interest for more than a minute. Luckily, my 3 year Stereophile subscription ran out a few months ago... rolleyes.gif

Like Ed said to H.I. (Raising Arizona) "everythings changed !!!!!" smile.gif

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post #12971 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You're gonna love em. I told the story before but I used a Slanted 8 as center channel along with my Triple 8LP's as mains while was waiting for the Noesis to arrive. The Slanted 8 did an amazing job as center channel and there is no heavier lift in HT than CC duty.

BTW, that secretary (Jeff) is one ugly woman ... tongue.gif
I fell in love with the single 8's back at Gorilla's spring GTG. I have to say that the Single 8 was the biggest surprise of the day. I gotta say that they have been on mind since that day and it was time to finally get them smile.gif
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

So let me get this straight... These full range speakers ideally for 2 ch use? Because I'm more of a 70 movies 30 music. I really like the height of the 210. Anyway what ever, I'm not going to get rid of my quads.
I hear you, I am not getting rid of my 212's either. The Noesis are perfect to me and they are everything I want in a speaker.
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post #12972 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post


I use 2 middle atlantic racks that I purchased from a online retailer called av custom racks or custom av racks - cant remember. They have many different styles and sizes.

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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I purchased a 36" one of these off craigslist for like $200ish.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/b-line/products/cabinets_and_electronic_enclosures/v-line-dual-hinge.html

I love it, I wish it was the 48", but 36" works, I just have to put my AVR and P7-350 on top because I put the amps, power conditioner, and game consoles in the rack.

The smoked glass looks very nice, and the rack mount rails just are fantastic for AV gear/amps/shelves etc. It is exceptionally sturdy - I think I could dance on top of it without worrying.

Ok, those look nice. 48 inches would be close enough. I would have to have it sit two inches out from the wall for a light switch if it exceeds 40 inches. I can find one soon enough, I just wanted to know what you guys do. I'll make same calls for prices and such. I do like the glass door look.

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post #12973 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 11:22 AM
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My latest Omni sweep.............anyone think that dip at 7.5k is a real problem? Doesn't appear to be just based on personal listening


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post #12974 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 12:00 PM
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My latest Omni sweep.............anyone think that dip at 7.5k is a real problem? Doesn't appear to be just based on personal listening



I would be concerned if it were my measurement, but first I would like to see an average of sweeps around that LP.

7.5 khz is less than a 2" wavelength, so impacted significantly by mic position and the spatial average is more important than a single position.

What speakers do you have?
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post #12975 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I would be concerned if it were my measurement, but first I would like to see an average of sweeps around that LP.

7.5 khz is less than a 2" wavelength, so impacted significantly by mic position and the spatial average is more important than a single position.

What speakers do you have?


JTR 3TXs(in sig). Mic was at MLP middle of where my head would be..ear level. Should I measure L and R individually at MLP?

Here is L+subs and R+subs




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post #12976 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

JTR 3TXs(in sig). Mic was at MLP middle of where my head would be..ear level. Should I measure L and R individually at MLP?

Here is L+subs and R+subs




I just looked at your tracings on my computer(looking on phone before) and noticed that the levels are too low to rule out room or ambient noise contamination. The average SPL should be at a minimum 25 - 30 dB above your noise floor which is typically 45 dB or higher, even in quiet rooms. Your average is at around 50-55 Hz - too low.

I take my measurements typically at least 75-80 dB average
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post #12977 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I just looked at your tracings on my computer(looking on phone before) and noticed that the levels are too low to rule out room or ambient noise contamination. The average SPL should be at a minimum 25 - 30 dB above your noise floor which is typically 45 dB or higher, even in quiet rooms. Your average is at around 50-55 Hz - too low.

I take my measurements typically at least 75-80 dB average

So just raise MV when playing tracks?

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post #12978 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 01:32 PM
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So just raise MV when playing tracks?

Yes sir, until the sweep is at least 70-75 dB in the areas of interest.
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post #12979 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 02:35 PM
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So just raise MV when playing tracks?

Doc's right on this Kevin. I ran some sweeps a week ago and started with the MV to low although I didn't have your anomalies (in fact, mine looked better confused.gif). Bumped it up a few db on the MV and got this graph.

The red line is a slightly different mic position at the LP. The HF rolloff is courtesy of Audyssey but I can't hear up there anyway. smile.gif


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post #12980 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

JTR 3TXs(in sig). Mic was at MLP middle of where my head would be..ear level. Should I measure L and R individually at MLP?

Here is L+subs and R+subs




The guys on the REW thread say you should never measure L + R and subs. Only L or R or C plus subs. What you are getting is wavelength interference at the mic tip. I didn't understand this at first and still have a bit of confusion. But our head is sitting there so we don't get that interference with wavelengths that are 2 inches or less because our head is there. One guy mentioned a expensive measuring system that is an actual dummy head with mics in each ear. But does that makes sense? That when measuring both speakers You will always get high end interference due to the small waves interfering at the mic tip.
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Doc's right on this Kevin. I ran some sweeps a week ago and started with the MV to low although I didn't have your anomalies (in fact, mine looked better confused.gif). Bumped it up a few db on the MV and got this graph.

The red line is a slightly different mic position at the LP. The HF rolloff is courtesy of Audyssey but I can't hear up there anyway. smile.gif


That roll off is rather steep for the Audyssey movie curve. If you select the music or flat it won't roll off. I'm sure you knew that though. But do you think that roll off is steep?

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post #12981 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

The guys on the REW thread say you should never measure L + R and subs. Only L or R or C plus subs. What you are getting is wavelength interference at the mic tip. I didn't understand this at first and still have a bit of confusion. But our head is sitting there so we don't get that interference with wavelengths that are 2 inches or less because our head is there. One guy mentioned a expensive measuring system that is an actual dummy head with mics in each ear. But does that makes sense? That when measuring both speakers You will always get high end interference due to the small waves interfering at the mic tip.

AustinJerry just posted a graph on the Audyssey thread that demonstrates the effect pretty dramatically. I've only measured with one speaker, so I had no idea how bad it could get in stereo eek.gif
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post #12982 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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Thanks for all the info guys. I haven't rerun increasing the master volume yet, but I did move the mic less than an inch it seemed left or right and it flattened out.....so I think it is some type of cancellation or comb filtering or something that is insignificant and inaudible......but I will do some more measurements and tinkering later on when I'm able.

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post #12983 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

AustinJerry just posted a graph on the Audyssey thread that demonstrates the effect pretty dramatically. I've only measured with one speaker, so I had no idea how bad it could get in stereo eek.gif

I'll check it out. I just couldn't get it at first why we wouldn't want to measure with all speakers since that's how we listen!!!! But it has made more sense that in the upper frequencies the waves are so tiny that they will "fight" with each other and wreak havoc on a flat line. When our heads are there that doesn't happen. So the graph that measures one speaker at a time is actually more accurate

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post #12984 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 06:55 PM
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will have 6x slanted 8's veneered in rosewood coming with my pair of s2s, biggest upgrade i've ever done.

I will definitely have to move my HT from living room down to my basement someday.
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post #12985 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 07:49 PM
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Where can we audition JTR speakers in Houston? Any ideas?
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will have 6x slanted 8's veneered in rosewood coming with my pair of s2s, biggest upgrade i've ever done.

I will definitely have to move my HT from living room down to my basement someday.

Congratulations!
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post #12987 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 08:30 PM
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Hey RMK, you could always get creative with Y-splitters out your pre into a minidsp to combine lfe + L or R channel before sending it to your amp biggrin.gif
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post #12988 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 08:37 PM
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would a minidsp be able to mix the lfe signal into the L/C/R? still a bit unfamiliar with it, but i think that would be the way to go to get lfe signal into the full range noesis.

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Hey RMK, you could always get creative with Y-splitters out your pre into a minidsp to combine lfe + L or R channel before sending it to your amp biggrin.gif

suggested that a few days ago =)
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post #12989 of 35294 Old 11-24-2013, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post


suggested that a few days ago =)
I went out of town for three days and this thread jumped up by 300 so I might have missed one or two posts tongue.gif
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post #12990 of 35294 Old 11-25-2013, 02:50 AM
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Guys in the Klipsch forum thread are telling me that bookshelf speakers will never sound big compare to towers, even though paired with a subwoofer .
For those who have listened to JTR SIngle8 before, does it sound bigger than competitor towers like Klipsch RF82?
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