Official JTR speaker thread - Page 436 - AVS Forum
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post #13051 of 21680 Old 11-24-2013, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post


suggested that a few days ago =)
I went out of town for three days and this thread jumped up by 300 so I might have missed one or two posts tongue.gif
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post #13052 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 02:50 AM
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Guys in the Klipsch forum thread are telling me that bookshelf speakers will never sound big compare to towers, even though paired with a subwoofer .
For those who have listened to JTR SIngle8 before, does it sound bigger than competitor towers like Klipsch RF82?
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post #13053 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I fell in love with the single 8's back at Gorilla's spring GTG. I have to say that the Single 8 was the biggest surprise of the day. I gotta say that they have been on mind since that day and it was time to finally get them smile.gif

Agreed. I was amazed at the sound they produced. Though a bit expensive for a single 8" woofer, it's all relative becuase they aren't at all expensive when you consider how much better they perform when compared to much more expensive speakers.

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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Guys in the Klipsch forum thread are telling me that bookshelf speakers will never sound big compare to towers, even though paired with a subwoofer .
For those who have listened to JTR SIngle8 before, does it sound bigger than competitor towers like Klipsch RF82?

See above. I am very big, no pun smile.gif , on big sound. If a speaker doesn't "sound big" it doens't have the same impact on me. These things sound waaaaayyy bigger than one would expect. The RF82 has dual 8s in a larger cab, is 98db sensitive and 150w rms. The single 8 is 95db sensitive but can take 4 times that power without a problem, so it can be made to produce more output. The rest becomes preference for sound. Having heard the entire Klipsch line, up the the THX, I'd pick the comparably priced JTR speaker any day. I'd take the single 8, they are a major overachiever in my book.
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post #13054 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Hey RMK, you could always get creative with Y-splitters out your pre into a minidsp to combine lfe + L or R channel before sending it to your amp
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post


suggested that a few days ago =)

I am liking the HTPC approach the desertdome suggested. With 9TB and dual Bluray drives it needs to be the centerpiece of my HT AV. wink.gif

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post #13055 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 07:29 AM
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What happens by turning the subwoofers off in the AVR or when XT32 pings the speakers and there is no subwoofer present. Does it drop the LFE completely or reroute through the mains?

Chris
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post #13056 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

What happens by turning the subwoofers off in the AVR or when XT32 pings the speakers and there is no subwoofer present. Does it drop the LFE completely or reroute through the mains?

Chris

i've been told a few times in this thread that there is no way for the lfe channel to be routed to the mains, through most receivers.
so accordingly, the lfe channel will probably just be dropped.

just like how your normal tv set with only 2 speakers, drops everything it can't process.
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post #13057 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

i've been told a few times in this thread that there is no way for the lfe channel to be routed to the mains, through most receivers.
so accordingly, the lfe channel will probably just be dropped.

just like how your normal tv set with only 2 speakers, drops everything it can't process.

I am going to try the HTPC channel assignment method using JRiver through my Integra 80.3 via HDMI. My concern is that with all of the channel carving and redistribution will I still be getting the uncompressed M/C audio that is available on bluray?

Kind of defeats the purpose If I end up with a heavily processed M/C signal matrixed from a stereo source signal ... if that even makes any sense ... confused.gif

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post #13058 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Agreed. I was amazed at the sound they produced. Though a bit expensive for a single 8" woofer, it's all relative becuase they aren't at all expensive when you consider how much better they perform when compared to much more expensive speakers.
See above. I am very big, no pun smile.gif , on big sound. If a speaker doesn't "sound big" it doens't have the same impact on me. These things sound waaaaayyy bigger than one would expect. The RF82 has dual 8s in a larger cab, is 98db sensitive and 150w rms. The single 8 is 95db sensitive but can take 4 times that power without a problem, so it can be made to produce more output. The rest becomes preference for sound. Having heard the entire Klipsch line, up the the THX, I'd pick the comparably priced JTR speaker any day. I'd take the single 8, they are a major overachiever in my book.
Single8 , despite with a single 8 incher, sounds much bigger than RF82 with dual 8 inchers ??? (assuming both playing at the same SPL). Isn't more drivers mean bigger, cinema-like, sound?
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post #13059 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

My latest Omni sweep.............anyone think that dip at 7.5k is a real problem? Doesn't appear to be just based on personal listening


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

JTR 3TXs(in sig). Mic was at MLP middle of where my head would be..ear level. Should I measure L and R individually at MLP?

Here is L+subs and R+subs




Looking great and yes, to confirm your first measurement, that dip at 7.5 is simply the "battle" you suggested between the two speakers. What I like to do is measure left and right separately, then run the combined response (track 2) sweep and see if I see any comb effects, at which point I VERY lightly adjust the toe-in or speaker position to avoid this effect. I then go back and double check that speaker's individual response to make sure it still looks good. This yields good response, good graphs, and great sound everytime!!!!

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post #13060 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I am going to try the HTPC channel assignment method using JRiver through my Integra 80.3 via HDMI. My concern is that with all of the channel carving and redistribution will I still be getting the uncompressed M/C audio that is available on bluray?

Kind of defeats the purpose If I end up with a heavily processed M/C signal matrixed from a stereo source signal ... if that even makes any sense ... confused.gif
Why would you start with a stereo source signal? Start with the 5.1 or 7.1 TrueHD or DTS-HD track. Or are you talking about music?
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post #13061 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I am going to try the HTPC channel assignment method using JRiver through my Integra 80.3 via HDMI. My concern is that with all of the channel carving and redistribution will I still be getting the uncompressed M/C audio that is available on bluray?

Kind of defeats the purpose If I end up with a heavily processed M/C signal matrixed from a stereo source signal ... if that even makes any sense ... confused.gif

Rob,

While I have been trying to keep up on this topic, I am sure I have missed some things.

Why is it that you want the LFE signal rerouted to your mains if you have 2 OS along with your full range speakers?
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post #13062 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Why would you start with a stereo source signal? Start with the 5.1 or 7.1 TrueHD or DTS-HD track. Or are you talking about music?

No, I was talking from a position of ignorance smile.gifwink.gif

So if my HTPC is utilizing the full uncompressed source audio, the LFE channel re-routing will not alter this signal other than the LFE being passed to the mains and or LCR?

Sorry for the very basic (to some) questions and thanks for the help cool.gif

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post #13063 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Single8 , despite with a single 8 incher, sounds much bigger than RF82 with dual 8 inchers ??? (assuming both playing at the same SPL). Isn't more drivers mean bigger, cinema-like, sound?
What is misleading is that tower speaker will be putting out more sound but it will be somewhat distorted or bloated and a lot of people think that is how it is supposed to sound. The S8 will put out clean sound the way it was meant to be.
The tower will put out more overall sound but IMO There is nothing better about it.
The S8 XO at 100hz - 120hz to Some high quality subs should be a better total system and should work better than just about any tower speaker at the same price.. The S8 is the size of a bookshelf with the presence of a highly dynamic tower.
Chris
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post #13064 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

So if my HTPC is utilizing the full uncompressed source audio, the LFE channel re-routing will not alter this signal other than the LFE being passed to the mains and or LCR?
No, it will not alter the signal. Before routing to the other speakers, you will need to increase the LFE signal by 10 dB. With a receiver, the LFE signal, which becomes the subwoofer signal after bass management, goes through another opamp which increases its level relative to other channels. This prevents the other channels from losing headroom.

With an HTPC, when you increase the LFE by 10 dB you are really reducing all other channels by 10 dB to prevent any clipping. In real life this is seldom an issue because you usually don't listen at maximum volume so there is no lost "headroom." What if you do want maximum volume? in JRiver you can use a feature called Peak Level Normalize. JRiver can analyze your movie ahead of time and determine the peak levels in the movie. If a movie's peaks are at -4 dB, for example, then JRiver can increase the LFE by 4 dB and reduce other channels by 6 dB. This allows one to always maintain the maximum signal level without clipping.
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post #13065 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 11:35 AM
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So I just got my home theater setup (partially) with my LCR JTR 212HT-LPs, pair of JTR Slanted 8s, and a single LMS 5400. I still need to build enclosures for my other two LMS 5400s. The system sounds great but I definitely need some more bass. smile.gif But my wife was giddy like a little school girl with how the system sounded and the shaking in the couch. I said we could get some rubber feet to isolate the couch from the floor vibrations and she shot me a dirty look and said "you will not". She said it sounded like a theater...then I reminded her I still had two subs to add. She looked happy! smile.gif Now I've got to hurry up and get the other two boxes assembled because it is going to be awesome!

Oh yeah, to make this an appropriate post for the JTR thread...the JTRs sound awesome! I haven't scratched the surface yet but they are impressive. I'll also be taking the whole setup to my dads over Thanksgiving so he can hear them and potentially become a JTR owner.
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post #13066 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Rob,

While I have been trying to keep up on this topic, I am sure I have missed some things.

Why is it that you want the LFE signal rerouted to your mains if you have 2 OS along with your full range speakers?

Becuase he wants to get rid of the OS's and just have the three full range mains!

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post #13067 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Becuase he wants to get rid of the OS's and just have the three full range mains!

Oh. Now I understand. Thank you.
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post #13068 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Becuase he wants to get rid of the OS's and just have the three full range mains!

Not really ... I want the option to run the mains or even LCR's full range with the LFE routed to them but, I will still have subs and probably be keeping the OS's unless someone steps up to buying them ... :-)

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post #13069 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Not really ... I want the option to run the mains or even LCR's full range with the LFE routed to them but, I will still have subs and probably be keeping the OS's unless someone steps up to buying them ... :-)

has anyone asked Jeff if the full range speakers were meant to handle LFE?

i'm just thinking it is very possibly separated for good reasons.

what happens when the movie sound track asks for a x db at x hz, and lfe happens to ask for x db at x hz

what happens then? will we miss hearing something? LFE tracks are normally separated for good reason.

full range for music, i would think that there is no lfe content normally?
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post #13070 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

No, it will not alter the signal. Before routing to the other speakers, you will need to increase the LFE signal by 10 dB. With a receiver, the LFE signal, which becomes the subwoofer signal after bass management, goes through another opamp which increases its level relative to other channels. This prevents the other channels from losing headroom.

With an HTPC, when you increase the LFE by 10 dB you are really reducing all other channels by 10 dB to prevent any clipping. In real life this is seldom an issue because you usually don't listen at maximum volume so there is no lost "headroom." What if you do want maximum volume? in JRiver you can use a feature called Peak Level Normalize. JRiver can analyze your movie ahead of time and determine the peak levels in the movie. If a movie's peaks are at -4 dB, for example, then JRiver can increase the LFE by 4 dB and reduce other channels by 6 dB. This allows one to always maintain the maximum signal level without clipping.

So if using these setting in the HTPC I should (or must) bypass all of the bass management, speaker settings and Audyssey EQ in my Integra SSP?

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post #13071 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

So if using these setting in the HTPC I should (or must) bypass all of the bass management, speaker settings and Audyssey EQ in my Integra SSP?
To do any DSP on the HTPC, the HTPC has to decode. It will the send the signal as PCM over HDMI to the Integra. I'm not sure how the Integra handles incoming PCM. I think some receivers or pre/pros will only apply bass management, speaker settings, and Audyssey when they decode, but I'm not sure.

I recommend all DSP including bass management and speakers settings be done on the HTPC.

If Audyssey works on PCM input, then you could do it if you like its results.
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post #13072 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

has anyone asked Jeff if the full range speakers were meant to handle LFE?

i'm just thinking it is very possibly separated for good reasons.

It is very possibly separated for a very good reason: It works better that way.



what happens then? will we miss hearing something? LFE tracks are normally separated for good reason.

Yes you are correct, they are separated for a good reason

full range for music, i would think that there is no lfe content normally?

There is not any LFE content in a stereo mix, only in x.1 channel mixed cd's is there a discreet subwoofer channel that the mixer created during mastering.

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post #13073 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

has anyone asked Jeff if the full range speakers were meant to handle LFE?

i'm just thinking it is very possibly separated for good reasons.

what happens when the movie sound track asks for a x db at x hz, and lfe happens to ask for x db at x hz

what happens then? will we miss hearing something? LFE tracks are normally separated for good reason.

full range for music, i would think that there is no lfe content normally?
If you are using three fullrange speakers to output the LFE then it would be no different than using a Captivator at the very least.

I have organ music that goes down to 16 Hz.
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post #13074 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

If you are using three fullrange speakers to output the LFE then it would be no different than using a Captivator at the very least.

I have organ music that goes down to 16 Hz.

i'm unfamiliar with how mixes work

but what if the regular sound track called for 43hz at say 75db, while the lfe track called for something at 43hz at 90db
is something like that in a sound track possible?
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post #13075 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

i'm unfamiliar with how mixes work

but what if the regular sound track called for 43hz at say 75db, while the lfe track called for something at 43hz at 90db
is something like that in a sound track possible?
Maybe this will help. Whether you listen to the stereo track or the multi-channel track of a concert Blu-ray, the 43 Hz note will be at 90dB for either.
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post #13076 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 07:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Apologies for breaking into the buzz around the new Dominatrix 215, but I thought you blokes might be interested in developments in this thread, starting at post 18. It gets "interesting" at post 29, but you need the context beforehand.

I could use some moral support. wink.gif

Not worth the effort, ignorance is bliss ... rolleyes.gif

Fellas, just wanted to thank Gooddoc, Archaea, ufokillerz, jbrown15, seifer300 and kma100 (apologies if I've missed someone) for your helpful and measured contributions.

I quoted you here RMK! because "ignorance is bliss" was prophetic on your part... it pretty much describes how things panned out. wink.gif

Cheers! smile.gif
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post #13077 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 09:20 PM
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JTR friends,

I have started a thread for my new basement theater. Please help!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1501799/help-with-basement-theater
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post #13078 of 21680 Old 11-25-2013, 09:47 PM
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JTR friends,

I have started a thread for my new basement theater. Please help!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1501799/help-with-basement-theater

I made a post already smile.gif

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
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post #13079 of 21680 Old 11-26-2013, 04:47 AM
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Can someone that runs jriver answer a few questions?
1. Can it bitstream?
2. Can it software decode, as in disable dxva? This one is very important.
3. Is it compatible with the harmony remotes?
4. Will it allow you to edit the name and sort names of movies?
5. Same as #4 but pertaining to TV series instead of movies.
6. Will it allow me to use custom names and files for TV series? For instance if I want to add the extras/Bonus content?
7. The mobile app, is it a visual list of your library and you just scroll through and select what to watch at which point it launches the movie on your htpc?
8. Are there parental controls so I can lock out specific titles?

I'm interested in jriver but it must do all of the things my current htpc front end does.
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post #13080 of 21680 Old 11-26-2013, 10:05 AM
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just sent off my payment for 6x slanted 8hts in rosenut veneer. Jeff said he'll be able to put them onto the pallet with my 2x Captivator S2's also in rosenut veneer.

Full 9.2 JTR system, if you include the 3x Noesis 212HTs i got 2 months ago.
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