Official JTR speaker thread - Page 439 - AVS Forum
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post #13141 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Hey jb, out of curiosity what movie scenes did you watch (or try to watch)?

+5dBMV eek.gif alright!... subjectively twice as loud as I've ever attempted. I assume the wife/significant other was out of the house?!?

I used the opening intro music part to the movie Terminator Salvation, and also a clip from Pacific Rim. Yes no one else was home at the time, just me and my ear plugs biggrin.gif

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post #13142 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


I was focusing on the Compression drivers of the T8 vs 228. Horn/waveguide vs Coaxial mid range is the next step in the comparison. I agree with all except the blind test. smile.gif
Speaker vs Speaker their is no one choice is best for all. LCR 228 Surrounds T8/S8 is just an example.
Chris

I was just coming back to reword my post to say, "but don't forget about...." instead of "you've ignored". I realize you were just speaking of CD's and my post sounded like you were somehow forgetting something. Not really how i meant it. smile.gif

You got to it before me though...

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post #13143 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 08:42 AM
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^^ Terminator Salvation is a Mid Bass feast! I just watched FOTP plane crash scene with my Dad at +3MV with the bass flat and it was insane!! He was giggling like a school girl the entire time... it was awesome!

Happy Thanksgiving!
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post #13144 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I was just coming back to reword my post to say, "but don't forget about...." instead of "you've ignored". I realize you were just speaking of CD's and my post sounded like you were somehow forgetting something. Not really how i meant it. smile.gif

You got to it before me though...
The discussion on the Horn/Waveguide vs Coaxial mid range will be where the audible details lye. IMO anyone interested in purchasing the 228 vs T8 should focus on this pat of the differences. Eliminating a bad room from the equation by focusing/directing the sound is a Big Deal. smile.gifwink.gif
Chris
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post #13145 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The discussion on the Horn/Waveguide vs Coaxial mid range will be where the audible details lye. IMO anyone interested in purchasing the 228 vs T8 should focus on this pat of the differences. Eliminating a bad room from the equation by focusing/directing the sound is a Big Deal. smile.gifwink.gif
Chris

I definitely noticed a difference when I upgraded from my 2010 T8's to 228's. Whether the difference is due to the waveguide or the newer compression driver and crossover is anyone's guess.
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post #13146 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 11:42 AM
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I realized the JTRs sound great at high volumes. What about power volume levels? When my wife is with me, the volumes won't go to high. frown.gif
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post #13147 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

I realized the JTRs sound great at high volumes. What about power volume levels? When my wife is with me, the volumes won't go to high. frown.gif
They also sound fantastic at lower volumes. The reason everyone always talks about the high volumes is that they sound just as good at high volumes as they do at low volumes which is very rare for speakers used in the home.
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post #13148 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

I realized the JTRs sound great at high volumes. What about power volume levels? When my wife is with me, the volumes won't go to high. frown.gif

They sound as good or better than just about any quality loudspeaker at lower volume. Detail, clarity and soundstage are awesome.

Then, when you want to rock out (or whatever you kids call it tongue.gif) they have all you want and more. That is the difference, and why those of us that have them are so happy with our purchases. smile.gif

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post #13149 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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You also may find that your wife lets you turn the volume up with JTR's higher than she may with other speakers, because when the volume goes up, they do not sound loud in the way she may be used to, because they do not distort. This distortion leads to ear fatigue with speakers that are playing beyond their limits. Before my JTR's, we would usually listen around -15, but now my wife lets me turn it to between -5 to -10 and does not know the difference other than a much more immersive and powerful performance.
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post #13150 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The T8 uses the BMS 4540nd http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=4540nd_overview.

The 4540 has a threaded male end that screws into the middle of a coaxial mid range woofer. It is purpose built for this 3 -way design so the frequency range is higher (30k) and has to be crossed over lower (1700hz) to a coaxial midrange.

The 228 uses the BMS 4547nd that is designed to bolt onto a horn for a 2 way design. http://bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=4547nd_overview

The 4547 frequency range is shifted lower (20khz) so it can be Crossed over at a lower frequency (1000hz). It has a1.75" inch VC to allow for this lower XO.

The sound quality between the two different compression drivers are the exact same only differing on the frequency range and the way it is mounted. One is purpose built for a horn the other for a coaxial mid-range.

Horn = bolted 4547nd or threaded coaxial = 4540nd.

In a blind test of the Triple 8 HT (Not LP) vs the 228 HT there should be no audible differences except possibly better clarity amongst certain frequency ranges. The 228 should have more clarity between 1000hz - 1700hz by design of the lower crossover. On the flipside the T8 would be better from 20khz -30khz ( I know BFD smile.gif).

Chris

Thanks for the info.
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post #13151 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!! Been down at Disney all week with the family. Playing some golf this morning and then stuffing my face tongue.gif


You too huh? smile.gif We've been here going to different parks since Monday, finished up with Animal Kingdom today.
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Rub it in, I went last year and had a ball, the kids loved Harry Potter. I personally loved Hollywood studios. With this recent cold snap, I hear Mexico calling my name biggrin.gif

I completely agree. I loved the Indiana Jones show and the stunt cars show. Also the star wars ride, and backlot tours were a lot of fun. I enjoyed Hollywood Studios far more than the other 3 Disney parks, not even close.

I do have to say that I really miss listening to my system, this will be the first time I've gone over a week straight without listening to the Noesis and I need a fix bad. smile.gif
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post #13152 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

You also may find that your wife lets you turn the volume up with JTR's higher than she may with other speakers, because when the volume goes up, they do not sound loud in the way she may be used to, because they do not distort. This distortion leads to ear fatigue with speakers that are playing beyond their limits. Before my JTR's, we would usually listen around -15, but now my wife lets me turn it to between -5 to -10 and does not know the difference other than a much more immersive and powerful performance.

+1, same experience with my wife.

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
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post #13153 of 22828 Old 11-28-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

You too huh? smile.gif We've been here going to different parks since Monday, finished up with Animal Kingdom today.


I completely agree. I loved the Indiana Jones show and the stunt cars show. Also the star wars ride, and backlot tours were a lot of fun. I enjoyed Hollywood Studios far more than the other 3 Disney parks, not even close.

I do have to say that I really miss listening to my system, this will be the first time I've gone over a week straight without listening to the Noesis and I need a fix bad. smile.gif
I forgot about the Indiana Jones show, that was great. Honestly I really had more fun at Universal. Harry Potter was great and I have to say the kids loved the Mummy, we just kept going on over and over. Spiderman was awesome to. I think next time we are gong to stay at Universal.

I gotta ask, the lines must have been insane? I just could not imagine going on a holiday. However I would love to see the parks at Christmas.
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post #13154 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

You too huh? smile.gif We've been here going to different parks since Monday, finished up with Animal Kingdom today.


I completely agree. I loved the Indiana Jones show and the stunt cars show. Also the star wars ride, and backlot tours were a lot of fun. I enjoyed Hollywood Studios far more than the other 3 Disney parks, not even close.

I do have to say that I really miss listening to my system, this will be the first time I've gone over a week straight without listening to the Noesis and I need a fix bad. smile.gif

Small world. We should have had an AVS GTG at Disney. biggrin.gif. We had a great time but the crowds were a bit much for my taste. This was our fourth time down with the girls and never have seen the parks this crowded.
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post #13155 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I forgot about the Indiana Jones show, that was great. Honestly I really had more fun at Universal. Harry Potter was great and I have to say the kids loved the Mummy, we just kept going on over and over. Spiderman was awesome to. I think next time we are gong to stay at Universal.

I gotta ask, the lines must have been insane? I just could not imagine going on a holiday. However I would love to see the parks at Christmas.

I can confirm the crowds were a bit much eek.gif lady told us Christmas is most crowded week and thanksgiving is number 2. Magic kingdom was insane crowds, the other three were more tolerable.
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post #13156 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

You too huh? smile.gif We've been here going to different parks since Monday, finished up with Animal Kingdom today.


I completely agree. I loved the Indiana Jones show and the stunt cars show. Also the star wars ride, and backlot tours were a lot of fun. I enjoyed Hollywood Studios far more than the other 3 Disney parks, not even close.

I do have to say that I really miss listening to my system, this will be the first time I've gone over a week straight without listening to the Noesis and I need a fix bad. smile.gif

Oh man! Have you started knicking yet? That's the worst biggrin.gif Haha

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post #13157 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 08:40 PM
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So I ended up ordering 3 212s for the LCR earlier today. I should be getting them before the holidays.

I decided to figure out the surrounds later as I'm not sure yet if I want bipoles or not.

But I do need a sub for when the 212s get here... Any suggestions? I've never bought a sub before. Would I need multiple subs for the room shape? HELP! smile.gif

ScreenShot2013-11-26at8.44.46PM.jpg 128k .jpg file
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post #13158 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 08:47 PM
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^^ Being the size of the room width way. I say dual S1 or cap 2400 off to the sides midway of MLP. But if money is not a problem then S2. But IMO, I'd would have waited for the FR 215 so you don't have to worry about a sub.. lol
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post #13159 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

So I ended up ordering 3 212s for the LCR earlier today. I should be getting them before the holidays.

I decided to figure out the surrounds later as I'm not sure yet if I want bipoles or not.

But I do need a sub for when the 212s get here... Any suggestions? I've never bought a sub before. Would I need multiple subs for the room shape? HELP! smile.gif

ScreenShot2013-11-26at8.44.46PM.jpg 128k .jpg file
I agree with the above recommendations for subs.

Please forgive the unsolicited advice. I recommend doing a search for dipole, bipolar and monopole surrounds and do some reading before purchasing. In my opinion, bipoles are not a good choice for modern multichannel digital sound. I think you would be better off with a high efficiency monopole surround from JTR or other brands. Going from bipole to monopole, was one of the best upgrades I ever made other than getting JTR LCR and subs.
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post #13160 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

So I ended up ordering 3 212s for the LCR earlier today. I should be getting them before the holidays.

I decided to figure out the surrounds later as I'm not sure yet if I want bipoles or not.

But I do need a sub for when the 212s get here... Any suggestions? I've never bought a sub before. Would I need multiple subs for the room shape? HELP! smile.gif

ScreenShot2013-11-26at8.44.46PM.jpg 128k .jpg file

Congrats on the 212HT's!

If I remember correctly you would be using the speakers for basically movies only right?
What made you decide to go with the 212HT's over the 228HT's for movie use?

In no way am I saying you've done the wrong thing, but IMHO I think you would have been better served to go with the 228HT's and a Cap S2 or Orbit Shifter ULF for the same price as just the 212HT's for movie use.

Too bad you couldn't convince RMK! to ship his two Orbit Shifters that he has for sale!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1501242/jtr-orbit-shifter-pair

These would be awesome in your room for what he's asking for them, they wouldn't have any troubles twisting your cap backwards!

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #13161 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 09:38 PM
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^^ I like I said earlier. I've would have waited for the 215's to come out. Especially with that size room and you don't have a sub. Hmm, I wonder why RMK is selling his dual OS? smile.gif I mean who the hell sells their OS? Something must be up! And RMK been a JTR user/ owner then most of us in this thread..
Gunner, in your floor plan, ever thought about sealing your HT room with like curtains? You know, behind the MLP? It'll end up being a semi sealed HT room.
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post #13162 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 10:10 PM
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no one knows what the 215s will cost yet. i have a feeling that it will have most of us reconsider whether the 215 is a better buy, or 212 with a sub.
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post #13163 of 22828 Old 11-29-2013, 11:24 PM
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^^ but even it cost almost the same as buying a seperate sub with say 212's. It's all about what a HT room can present. Clean, no subs around to see, more room, elegant, but killer setup when fired up. I mean come on, we all know Jeff is a smart, quiet, and yet crazy guy when comes to speakers. And we all know that when that 210 and 215 comes out. It will all have us rethinking about our setup again. And RMK is just ahead of us cause he knows. I mean think about it, did Jeff ever come out with speakers or sub that's a dud? Not that I can recall with reviews and GTGs? This thread will totally change when this FR speakers comes out. That's my predictions... http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/jtr-noesis-floor-standing-full-range-speakers-6631501
And most of us will pay for it too.. Lol
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post #13164 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

So I ended up ordering 3 212s for the LCR earlier today. I should be getting them before the holidays.

I decided to figure out the surrounds later as I'm not sure yet if I want bipoles or not.

But I do need a sub for when the 212s get here... Any suggestions? I've never bought a sub before. Would I need multiple subs for the room shape? HELP! smile.gif

ScreenShot2013-11-26at8.44.46PM.jpg 128k .jpg file

Great front setup.
You will enjoy them.smile.gif
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post #13165 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 12:33 AM
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^^ but even it cost almost the same as buying a seperate sub with say 212's. It's all about what a HT room can present. Clean, no subs around to see, more room, elegant, but killer setup when fired up. I mean come on, we all know Jeff is a smart, quiet, and yet crazy guy when comes to speakers. And we all know that when that 210 and 215 comes out. It will all have us rethinking about our setup again. And RMK is just ahead of us cause he knows. I mean think about it, did Jeff ever come out with speakers or sub that's a dud? Not that I can recall with reviews and GTGs? This thread will totally change when this FR speakers comes out. That's my predictions... http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/jtr-noesis-floor-standing-full-range-speakers-6631501
And most of us will pay for it too.. Lol

I love this new speaker, but it's existence will not change the fundamental principals that make modern bass management relevant.

Multiple bass sources, placed optimally within a room will have superior SQ in most instances compared to bass sources in the position of the LCR's. There is overwhelming evidence and concensus of expert opinion to support this.

In my opinion, with the exception of a dedicated 2 channel rig, the 215 is not for those who must make the financial decision between 215's or subs, but for those that can afford 215's and subs. Compared to monitors and properly positioned multiple subs, the former will likely be inferior, the latter superior.

Of course, that's just my controversial opinion biggrin.gif

Oh, @ gunner, congrats on the 212's. Awesome speaker that will give you many smiles. Just pair them with subs that will do them justice smile.gif

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CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
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post #13166 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 12:39 AM
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Gooddoc! Are you serious! I for one thought you too will be jumping on this 215 boat! I know you REALLY want to see what that LG amp can do! Lol.. Well! Don't you! hehe!
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post #13167 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 12:54 AM
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Gooddoc! Are you serious! I for one thought you too will be jumping on this 215 boat! I know you REALLY want to see what that LG amp can do! Lol..

I'm not ruling them out biggrin.gif

But my subs would go nowhere if I put the 215's in my room. More better is great, but I already know that subs only in the positions of the LR's in my room is a bass disaster.

And I would need a better amp if I got them. The 10000Q is alright I guess for my monitors, but I'd want more power for the 215's biggrin.gif

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
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post #13168 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 01:08 AM
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Same with me bro.. I'm not getting rid of my quads. I'm attending Axpona 2014 with my family from Hawaii. And one of the days I'm up at there I'm gonna drive up to Jeff's shop I think it's a 2 hr drive. Anyway I'll arrange some kind of demo if possible with Jeff before I go up. I really what to hear what the FR 210 can offer with my quad S2. For now I'll hold up on the 212 purchase. For me 215 is totally out of thought. But I need new LCRs. I'm just saying anyone with space limited HT room that doesn't own good subs might wanna consider the 215's..
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post #13169 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 01:26 AM
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I'm not ruling them out biggrin.gif

But my subs would go nowhere if I put the 215's in my room. More better is great, but I already know that subs only in the positions of the LR's in my room is a bass disaster.

And I would need a better amp if I got them. The 10000Q is alright I guess for my monitors, but I'd want more power for the 215's biggrin.gif


OK! What about a LG 14000FP then! With the 215s? biggrin.gif
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post #13170 of 22828 Old 11-30-2013, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I love this new speaker, but it's existence will not change the fundamental principals that make modern bass management relevant.

Multiple bass sources, placed optimally within a room will have superior SQ in most instances compared to bass sources in the position of the LCR's. There is overwhelming evidence and concensus of expert opinion to support this.

In my opinion, with the exception of a dedicated 2 channel rig, the 215 is not for those who must make the financial decision between 215's or subs, but for those that can afford 215's and subs. Compared to monitors and properly positioned multiple subs, the former will likely be inferior, the latter superior.

Of course, that's just my controversial opinion biggrin.gif

Oh, @ gunner, congrats on the 212's. Awesome speaker that will give you many smiles. Just pair them with subs that will do them justice smile.gif
^^^ I Agree with this. ^^^ There would be very few exceptions to this.

I would like to see Jeff Build a 215 Full range & Monitor version just like the 212. Probably would not save any money but it would allow for more placement options.

Chris
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