Official JTR speaker thread - Page 454 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 7120Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-18-2013, 07:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,556
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2518 Post(s)
Liked: 1984
Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

Yeah Yeah Nate, I believed you. Just figured why not get a few more answers. Im going to wait now. It would not be worth it if the upgrades cost that much....

In the mean time, Im pondering if I need 2 more ixl18's to act as stands for whatever I end up with.

All this is your fault N8 LMAO!!!!

Just curious as to why you went with the IXL-18 over the UXL-18? Was it just a budget thing?
jbrown15 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-18-2013, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 6,292
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Liked: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

How much is the upgrade

It all depends how much you can get the 2008 used set for. All said and done I am paying a couple hundred over half a new set. And It would be right at half if I would have had Jeff just send me the upgrade kits and I did it myself. But I decided to send them to him for a couple minor repairs and full testing. I imagine a bit of Jeff's time/cost is the cabinets...Anyway if you can get the set for cheap you should go for it, Jeff doesn't charge too much for the upgrade kits...it would be worth it...

FTW21 Ported Build
Volt 10 build
I miss Giants baseball!
jlpowell84 is offline  
Old 12-18-2013, 08:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lbrown105's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,458
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 521 Post(s)
Liked: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Don't know for sure where or what. I haven't tried to isolate it yet. I think it's my avr, but not certain. This is not a subtle clip, it's fairly nasty sounding hard clip. Could be a sub, speaker, amp, or avr. Given how far I have the LG gains down I think it's either avr output clip or amp input clip.

Dunno though. I shouldn't have to dial it down like this. The hiss is a problem with the Denon preouts, not a separate amp issue. I guess it's just something I need to deal with until I get my new prepro.
When you discussed the gain level much earlier in this thread that was one of the first questions I had was where is the weak link for clipping? I recall you were 24dB on the gain which sounds fairly low. One thing I don't always see specs on is the signal to noise ratio on the pre amp stage of the AVR's. I would doubt most AVR's amp stage can beat the LG's >112dB SNR though. Not sure though and curious to learn more about this because I am also not sure what would the preferred pre amp be for the LG. In your case maybe you'll just find out there is some noise elsewhere that is curred through balanced cables or grounding?

How high was the MV when you noticed clipping while you LG was set to 24dB gain.
lbrown105 is offline  
Old 12-18-2013, 11:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,491
Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2115 Post(s)
Liked: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

When you discussed the gain level much earlier in this thread that was one of the first questions I had was where is the weak link for clipping? I recall you were 24dB on the gain which sounds fairly low. One thing I don't always see specs on is the signal to noise ratio on the pre amp stage of the AVR's. I would doubt most AVR's amp stage can beat the LG's >112dB SNR though. Not sure though and curious to learn more about this because I am also not sure what would the preferred pre amp be for the LG. In your case maybe you'll just find out there is some noise elsewhere that is curred through balanced cables or grounding?

How high was the MV when you noticed clipping while you LG was set to 24dB gain.

Actually, the amp gain was at 11 dB, not 24 dB. I did come up on the gain to 16 dB when I first heard the clipping, and that seemed to raise the clipping level. Not enough, obviously. But it did point to the low amp gain as the likely culprit for the clipping.

This amp should be mated with XLR's, that's the bottom line. That would instantly eliminate at least a couple potential causes of my problem right of the bat, namely line level mismatch and cable noise.

Also, didn't note MV level, but experience tells me it was +4 or above on clipping
Gooddoc is offline  
Old 12-19-2013, 03:33 AM
Member
 
selkec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: indianapolis
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Just curious as to why you went with the IXL-18 over the UXL-18? Was it just a budget thing?

I wanted a sub I could find a flat pack that just needed to be put together. The uxl I could find no flat pack for and Im not good at wood working.. So it was, in order, simplicity of the build, looks ( I think the uxl looks weird) and budget. parts express has a flat pack that works with the ixl.

Denon x4200,Samsung 4k TV,
Panasonic bluray
Comcast x1 cable box
Belkin pf60. Emotiva cmx-2
Klipsch rf82, RP-450 center
240s surrounds
selkec is offline  
Old 12-19-2013, 04:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 5,756
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

I wanted a sub I could find a flat pack that just needed to be put together. The uxl I could find no flat pack for and Im not good at wood working.. So it was, in order, simplicity of the build, looks ( I think the uxl looks weird) and budget. parts express has a flat pack that works with the ixl.

Someone used the Dayton HO18 flat pack from diysoundgroup using the UXL-18 with no issues whatsoever........................the UXL will fit no problemo!

UXL not good looking? I'll take the looks of carbon fiber anytime...............wink.gif
doublewing11 is offline  
Old 12-19-2013, 06:07 PM
Member
 
steveko23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Long time lurker, infrequent poster. Anyway, I think I'm starting the long process of designing my HT room and was curious what you guys thought about which speakers might work best in given my layout.



Right now I'd say I will use the speakers more for HT than music, but I do have a love for music and have found myself re-listening to a lot of music since I just bought a decent pair of headphones and the music actually sounds like it should again. So I could see myself listening to more and more music once I have a system capable of playing the music how it was meant to be played. Anyway my concerns are that the 212's would be too big for my space considering the wall angles in the room. The room is all prewired so that the tv/projector would be at the top of the pic (where the red line is), it would also work out better or the rest of the basement for the PJ to be on that wall. Which means either I put the speakers behind the screen (I'm not terrible fond of this because that would bring the screen closer to the seating position and cut off a fraction of the room), or next to the screen along the diagonal walls. My fear is that if they are along the diagonal walls the 212's would be far to close to my seating position and that the 228's would work better for that space. Also, there is a not-insignificant price jump between the 228 and 212's. The plan would be for these to be the last speakers I ever buy so I'm certainty not ruling out anything. I was just curious for others opinions given my floor plan. I was also thinking I'd either get an S2 or and S1 with maybe a 2nd S1 down the road. I do like my bass and the theater room basically opens up to the rest of the basement so I'm unsure how much sub I need so I'm still pretty open on that front. Also, pretty open on the speaker front. No purchase is super-eminent but hopefully/probably sometime in 2014 I'll pull the trigger.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks
Steve
steveko23 is offline  
Old 12-19-2013, 10:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,995
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 412
Haven't been on this thread for awhile.. Any updates on the 210 or 215? Can't wait till that becomes available.. smile.gif
rhed is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 03:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
MX48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metter
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Steveko23,

How many rows of seats?
If only 1 row I have some ideas, unless you are going to get a professional to design it. Then my ideas won't be needed smile.gif.

Moto
MX48 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 03:35 AM
Member
 
steveko23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 15
MX48,

It will likely just be a big couch somewhere along the back and maybe a love seat on the sides or an l shaped couch... I hadn't really thought about that exactly. It won't be an "official" theater with rows of theater style seating though so no seats behind any other seats. Maybe 2 couches in a v shape? I think Pottery Barn has a big couch with a huge foot rest type thing you can basically turn into a big square you can sit or lay on my wife has her eye on. Right now we just have an older (yet still quite comfortable) couch and comfy-chair with foot rest in that space, but that room is currently used mostly for storage. I don't think I want anything directly up against the back wall though so I think I'd like at least a little space between the back wall and any seating.

Steve
steveko23 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 04:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
MX48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metter
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
I don't think I want anything directly up against the back wall

You definitely don't want to be against the back wall for audio purposes.
I am not the expert and you should post in the dedicated theater thread and you will get a lot of good advice.
Having said that, these are my ideas, and you won't like some of them smile.gif:
One caveat, if you are immune to upgradeitis (unlike me, I am on about my 20th iteration between speakers, room, projector etc.) then don't worry about some of this.

-Get the 212 for Left and Right and 228 for center and don't worry about leaving anything on the table for music.
-I know you don't want to but use an AT screen (you can DIY a Seymore for about $125?, haven't checked on their prices for material lately), but IMO that is the best way to go and you can stand the LCR up behind the screen. This accomplishes a bigger screen since you don't have to leave room on the sides for the speakers (rather than starting out smaller and wanting to go larger later), and moves the screen closer to the projector for more light. With as good as the projectors are now you don't have to worry about being too close to the screen. I sit 14 feet from a 200" diagonal 2.35/1 screen with no problem at all and really could go closer.
Position the screen where the wall angles in. What is the distance of that angled area to the front wall?
-Build a false wall. Some will tell you not to do this because you don't know how your speakers will react. But it is the single best thing I did to improve sound quality in my room other than room treatments. It is inexpensive if you do it yourself, not hard and worth every penny.
-Put in room treatments. There are many threads on how and where to do this.
-Forego separate amps for the JTR's and get a good AVR with MultiEQ XT32. They are sensitive enough without them unless you are really going to play it obnoxiously loud.
-Get a decent projector, of course you will first have to decide which technology. All have their strengths and weaknesses. Again there are many threads on this and if possible demo them IN AN ENVIRONMENT SIMILAR TO YOURS. In other words not at Best Buy etc.

I got a bunch more ideas but this will get you started.
MX48 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 04:41 AM
Newbie
 
nichouheguo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

you will hear higher distortion from the amp. So it's advisable to get an amp with higher headroom so that it can play loud and clean.

p8u7BO

nichouheguo is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 05:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 7,694
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1463 Post(s)
Liked: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveko23 View Post

MX48,

It will likely just be a big couch somewhere along the back and maybe a love seat on the sides or an l shaped couch... I hadn't really thought about that exactly. It won't be an "official" theater with rows of theater style seating though so no seats behind any other seats. Maybe 2 couches in a v shape? I think Pottery Barn has a big couch with a huge foot rest type thing you can basically turn into a big square you can sit or lay on my wife has her eye on. Right now we just have an older (yet still quite comfortable) couch and comfy-chair with foot rest in that space, but that room is currently used mostly for storage. I don't think I want anything directly up against the back wall though so I think I'd like at least a little space between the back wall and any seating.

Steve

I had a big (and expensive eek.gif) sectional sofa in the HT prior to getting HT chairs. Although I liked the look of the sectional sofa, I found that watching 2 hr movies sprawled out on couch was very uncomfortable. Getting powered HT chairs made a huge difference comfort wise for long duration viewing.

Also, some good advice from MX48 ^^ smile.gif

Opinions are not facts.
RMK! is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 06:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
countryWV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntington West Virginia
Posts: 1,946
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I had a big (and expensive eek.gif) sectional sofa in the HT prior to getting HT chairs. Although I liked the look of the sectional sofa, I found that watching 2 hr movies sprawled out on couch was very uncomfortable.
It's also almost impossible to stay awake.smile.gif
Chris

Chris
countryWV is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 07:41 AM
Member
 
steveko23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 15
MX48 thanks for the food for thought. After my initial post last night I did start to have some 2nd thoughts about an AT screen with the speakers behind. And you've addressed some of my worries about the screen being too large then.
I think the angles walls are ~4' so, from the start of the angle to the wall is something like 3.5'. (I'm at work currently so I'm just guesstimating based on the floorplans smile.gif ) But it looks like if I do build that false wall 3ish feet from the wall would that give enough room for the 212's? And that would leave me with 17' from the screen to the back wall so the seats would be maybe 14' from a 100-120" screen... does that sound reasonable?? And does that give enough room for the 212's? It seemed from what I was reading that they required a good deal of space to get the most out of them.

RMK thanks for the thoughts on theater seats rather than a sectional sofa. I'll have to consider that down the road certainly. I'd guess for at least the near future we'll stick with the sofa and chair we currently have and then upgrade down the road.
steveko23 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 08:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
MX48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metter
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 40
When you put the speakers in a false wall (the baffle of the speaker is flush with the wall), then the need for space behind speaker doesn't exist anymore as the false wall is the back wall.
As far as the 212's needing space, to open them up with high SPL's then yes you would need more space (like an auditorium smile.gif). My limited experience and what I have read says that a great sounding speaker like the 212 also sounds great at low to moderate volumes for music and is ready for the big dynamics of movies.
If I had the money I would own a pair.

When my screen was 120" diag. I sat 10 feet from the screen. I suppose it is possible I am not very susceptible to seeing pixels, screen material etc. but I am somewhat picky without being obsessive. I am much more picky about the sound, which is why I suggest the false wall and room treatments.
Personally I would sit at 10-12 feet from the screen which leaves you a little more room for the surrounds, but that's just me and everyone has different tastes. Experimenting my be a good idea for you.
As an example I sit 14 feet from my 200" diagonal and would go to 12 if it wouldn't throw off my LCR setup. When you think of this when coming from a TV your first thought is "how could I possibly sit that close with that big of a screen?". Believe my you can and will want to! If 4k ever gets going it will be the symmetry of the sound system that dictates the seating distance, not the resolution of the projector.

To sum up for me, I would like to have a 300" screen. Unfortunately it is just not practical.

By the way, where do you live?

Hope all this helps.
MX48 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 08:17 AM
Newbie
 
trianglechad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From reading several posts and gtg reviews, I'm leaning towards buying a pair of jtr 228s for my living room. Here is a photo of the room. Thinking of putting the jtrs in the built ins and removing the door panels to make room. Is this doable or would the jtrs not work in this configuration? I was hoping since they are front ported having them on bookshelves would not be an issue.
trianglechad is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 08:21 AM
Point Source
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 11,200
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2999 Post(s)
Liked: 2432
sealing them into the built ins would be needed, otherwise they would get a little honky being set in a cabinet
beastaudio is online now  
Old 12-20-2013, 09:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,556
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2518 Post(s)
Liked: 1984
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveko23 View Post

MX48 thanks for the food for thought. After my initial post last night I did start to have some 2nd thoughts about an AT screen with the speakers behind. And you've addressed some of my worries about the screen being too large then.
I think the angles walls are ~4' so, from the start of the angle to the wall is something like 3.5'. (I'm at work currently so I'm just guesstimating based on the floorplans smile.gif ) But it looks like if I do build that false wall 3ish feet from the wall would that give enough room for the 212's? And that would leave me with 17' from the screen to the back wall so the seats would be maybe 14' from a 100-120" screen... does that sound reasonable?? And does that give enough room for the 212's? It seemed from what I was reading that they required a good deal of space to get the most out of them.

RMK thanks for the thoughts on theater seats rather than a sectional sofa. I'll have to consider that down the road certainly. I'd guess for at least the near future we'll stick with the sofa and chair we currently have and then upgrade down the road.


So I'm in the process of changing over from a standard 112" 16:9 screen sitting 13.5' away, and now with the stage I build and false wall I'll be sitting 11.5' from a 115" screen. It took a little while to get use to it, but now myself and even my wife like it better. You feel more immersed in the movie.

Your room is pretty close in size to mine too.
jbrown15 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 09:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,556
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2518 Post(s)
Liked: 1984
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveko23 View Post

MX48 thanks for the food for thought. After my initial post last night I did start to have some 2nd thoughts about an AT screen with the speakers behind. And you've addressed some of my worries about the screen being too large then.
I think the angles walls are ~4' so, from the start of the angle to the wall is something like 3.5'. (I'm at work currently so I'm just guesstimating based on the floorplans smile.gif ) But it looks like if I do build that false wall 3ish feet from the wall would that give enough room for the 212's? And that would leave me with 17' from the screen to the back wall so the seats would be maybe 14' from a 100-120" screen... does that sound reasonable?? And does that give enough room for the 212's? It seemed from what I was reading that they required a good deal of space to get the most out of them.

RMK thanks for the thoughts on theater seats rather than a sectional sofa. I'll have to consider that down the road certainly. I'd guess for at least the near future we'll stick with the sofa and chair we currently have and then upgrade down the road.

If you went with three sealed 212HT-LP's you could basically have them right up against the back of your wall. you'd just need to leave enough room to toe them in.

I personally really wish I had planned a little better and gone with an AT screen setup right from day one, then I wouldn't of had to go thru all of the hassle I have by doing it after the fact.
jbrown15 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 10:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,987
Mentioned: 339 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2043 Post(s)
Liked: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So I'm in the process of changing over from a standard 112" 16:9 screen sitting 13.5' away, and now with the stage I build and false wall I'll be sitting 11.5' from a 115" screen. It took a little while to get use to it, but now myself and even my wife like it better. You feel more immersed in the movie.

Your room is pretty close in size to mine too.


Yeah I agree that you get used to being close, my head is 11' 6" from 158" 2:35:1 screen. I am nervous about going AT for a few reasons, one is that i'll be 2 feet closer. However I bet I'd adjust to that too and I could go a bit smaller... don't want to go much smaller though.
carp is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 11:20 AM
Troll
 
ufokillerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by trianglechad View Post

From reading several posts and gtg reviews, I'm leaning towards buying a pair of jtr 228s for my living room. Here is a photo of the room. Thinking of putting the jtrs in the built ins and removing the door panels to make room. Is this doable or would the jtrs not work in this configuration? I was hoping since they are front ported having them on bookshelves would not be an issue.

i jacked this photo from the JTR forums, but i do NOT think you will have a problem.

lbrown105 likes this.
ufokillerz is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 01:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 982
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Had a forum member over yesterday to listen to the system and had a good time. Found the limits of my signal chain though and experienced some clipping. I have the gains turned down so far on the LG that at fairly ridiculous SPL's I get clipping somewhere. Not sure if amp or AVR, but I suspect the latter. I ran into it when I first cranked the gains down to get rid of a hiss from my Denon, but by turning the amp gains up 5 or 6 dB it solved it for my typical listening volumes, so I haven't worried about it. The volumes were a bit spirited during this session though and I found the new limits biggrin.gif.

I'm not going to do anything about it though since the answer to the problem is a new preamp and I don't want to raise my noise floor anymore and ruin my late night listening sessions with that hiss. Kind of bums me out that I have to gimp my system due to the Denon, but I guess it will motivate me to just get the preamp sooner rather than later. To be honest, I had thought I had more headroom than that, even with the LG cranked down like that. I hate limits. But for now I'll just deal with it with the thought that the volumes we were hitting to reach the clip point couldn't really be considered healthy for the ears anyway...smile.gif
That would be me biggrin.gif. And, by your request, I will post my impressions.

First, I would like to say thanks a ton for having me; it was a ton of fun -- like being at our own personal concert for a few hours. And the beer was cheaper, haha!

As for the JTR's -- well, I will say the general "they are loud and dynamic" commentary is certainly more than well deserved. These things cranked and never once sounded out of sorts. That said, in comparison to the Triad Platinums I recently had a chance to listen to (thanks CraigJohn if you're reading) I'd have to say that the Triad's had a "smoother" sound, if that makes any sense. Problem is, as Gooddoc and I were discussing at his place, it's really hard to tell how much of that is the room and how much the speaker. Craig's room is very well treated, Gooddoc's room is more lively, much like my own. The beauty of this is that were I to put the JTR's into my room, they would likely sound more similar to how I heard them than what I heard of the Triads. Which is to say, if I dropped the Triad's in my room, I could certainly not expect to hear anywhere near what I heard in Craig's. Without a doubt, though, the Traid's have nothing on the JTR's in terms of shear output capacity. Of course, I say this and most people on here probably say, "no $hit, tell us something we don't already know."

I'll quickly compare the two rooms, because, like I said, the rooms are so different that I have a hard time differentiating room from speakers. Before I do though, I will say I loved both demos and for different reasons. I can only hope to achieve what either of these two very awesome guys have done! If I get anywhere close, I'd be a ton happier than where I am now.

Gooddoc's room sounded very good, and for rocking out it was absolutely incredible! I demo'd my favorite Breaking Benjamin track (Away) and easily found Gooddoc's "clip point" because the clarity was so crazy. Afterwards, we both had to take a quick break to let our ears cool off, lol. This song on the Triad's had quite a different character -- on them, all the content was there, and it was very exceptionally clear, but I wanted so much more output and neither Craig nor I was sure the speakers (or Craig's amp) had it in them to deliver it. I'll also mention that Gooddoc's bass response was so taught; he integrated his subs splendidly with the JTR's! Though I think my preference would have been to kick the house curve up a notch (or six, lol), especially with as much power he has on tap! But, I know I'm of the rare "ULF-tard" variety, lol.

That said, what Craig's room lacked in shear output, it made up for in the intimate moments. For example, Damien Rice's "Volcano" just sucked me right into the recording. At Gooddoc's, the track had all the pieces, but almost felt...clinical. Though, it's so hard to say how much of that intimacy was created because of the Traids and how much was because Craig's room is so exceptionally well treated. He has both a fantastic dedicated room and exceptional speakers. Poor Gooddoc and I have to do the best we can with our non-dedicated rooms, and I must say, Gooddoc has done superbly!

So...I guess I'm still up in the air -- on standby, I suppose. Fortunately, Gooddoc says treatments are coming. He may even invite me to help him and we can observe the transition together. Maybe afterwards I'll be even more smitten with the JTR's. Right now, though, if I'm being honest, money no object and someone twisting my arm, I'd probably chose the Triad's in a treated room and save my hearing. However, that could certainly all change in a heartbeat if the JTR's in a treated room come just a bit closer to the intimacy of the Triad+treated room combo. My guess is, there's a really good chance they will, as both speakers are very well engineered for accurate response. I hope the JTR's+treated room combo provides the best of both worlds -- intimate when desired and concert when required.
DreamWarrior is online now  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,987
Mentioned: 339 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2043 Post(s)
Liked: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post

That would be me biggrin.gif. And, by your request, I will post my impressions.

First, I would like to say thanks a ton for having me; it was a ton of fun -- like being at our own personal concert for a few hours. And the beer was cheaper, haha!

As for the JTR's -- well, I will say the general "they are loud and dynamic" commentary is certainly more than well deserved. These things cranked and never once sounded out of sorts. That said, in comparison to the Triad Platinums I recently had a chance to listen to (thanks CraigJohn if you're reading) I'd have to say that the Triad's had a "smoother" sound, if that makes any sense. Problem is, as Gooddoc and I were discussing at his place, it's really hard to tell how much of that is the room and how much the speaker. Craig's room is very well treated, Gooddoc's room is more lively, much like my own. The beauty of this is that were I to put the JTR's into my room, they would likely sound more similar to how I heard them than what I heard of the Triads. Which is to say, if I dropped the Triad's in my room, I could certainly not expect to hear anywhere near what I heard in Craig's. Without a doubt, though, the Traid's have nothing on the JTR's in terms of shear output capacity. Of course, I say this and most people on here probably say, "no $hit, tell us something we don't already know."

I'll quickly compare the two rooms, because, like I said, the rooms are so different that I have a hard time differentiating room from speakers. Before I do though, I will say I loved both demos and for different reasons. I can only hope to achieve what either of these two very awesome guys have done! If I get anywhere close, I'd be a ton happier than where I am now.

Gooddoc's room sounded very good, and for rocking out it was absolutely incredible! I demo'd my favorite Breaking Benjamin track (Away) and easily found Gooddoc's "clip point" because the clarity was so crazy. Afterwards, we both had to take a quick break to let our ears cool off, lol. This song on the Triad's had quite a different character -- on them, all the content was there, and it was very exceptionally clear, but I wanted so much more output and neither Craig nor I was sure the speakers (or Craig's amp) had it in them to deliver it. I'll also mention that Gooddoc's bass response was so taught; he integrated his subs splendidly with the JTR's! Though I think my preference would have been to kick the house curve up a notch (or six, lol), especially with as much power he has on tap! But, I know I'm of the rare "ULF-tard" variety, lol.

That said, what Craig's room lacked in shear output, it made up for in the intimate moments. For example, Damien Rice's "Volcano" just sucked me right into the recording. At Gooddoc's, the track had all the pieces, but almost felt...clinical. Though, it's so hard to say how much of that intimacy was created because of the Traids and how much was because Craig's room is so exceptionally well treated. He has both a fantastic dedicated room and exceptional speakers. Poor Gooddoc and I have to do the best we can with our non-dedicated rooms, and I must say, Gooddoc has done superbly!

So...I guess I'm still up in the air -- on standby, I suppose. Fortunately, Gooddoc says treatments are coming. He may even invite me to help him and we can observe the transition together. Maybe afterwards I'll be even more smitten with the JTR's. Right now, though, if I'm being honest, money no object and someone twisting my arm, I'd probably chose the Triad's in a treated room and save my hearing. However, that could certainly all change in a heartbeat if the JTR's in a treated room come just a bit closer to the intimacy of the Triad+treated room combo. My guess is, there's a really good chance they will, as both speakers are very well engineered for accurate response. I hope the JTR's+treated room combo provides the best of both worlds -- intimate when desired and concert when required.


Cool review DW!

I'm lucky enough to be getting a demo of Craig John's room (along with Archaea) here in a few weeks, can't wait. I won't get to hear Gooddoc's but I'll get to meet him at Gorilla's GTG that same weekend - oh, and to top it off we'll be at Popolock's too. That weekend will not suck. cool.gif

Ok, back to the 212 Triad comparison. I noticed an improvement with the 212's for sure when I added panels on the side walls for both first and second reflections and did the same for first reflections on the ceiling. I used to use a bit of manual eq on a lot of artists I like to listen to, but no longer needed to when I got the treatments so I bet you will like the 212's at lower volumes even more in a treated room. Will they sound as good as the Triad's? I don't know but I sure am looking forward to getting to hear them as well as meet Craig. smile.gif
carp is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:07 PM
Member
 
steveko23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX48 View Post

When you put the speakers in a false wall (the baffle of the speaker is flush with the wall), then the need for space behind speaker doesn't exist anymore as the false wall is the back wall.
As far as the 212's needing space, to open them up with high SPL's then yes you would need more space (like an auditorium smile.gif). My limited experience and what I have read says that a great sounding speaker like the 212 also sounds great at low to moderate volumes for music and is ready for the big dynamics of movies.
If I had the money I would own a pair.

When my screen was 120" diag. I sat 10 feet from the screen. I suppose it is possible I am not very susceptible to seeing pixels, screen material etc. but I am somewhat picky without being obsessive. I am much more picky about the sound, which is why I suggest the false wall and room treatments.
Personally I would sit at 10-12 feet from the screen which leaves you a little more room for the surrounds, but that's just me and everyone has different tastes. Experimenting my be a good idea for you.
As an example I sit 14 feet from my 200" diagonal and would go to 12 if it wouldn't throw off my LCR setup. When you think of this when coming from a TV your first thought is "how could I possibly sit that close with that big of a screen?". Believe my you can and will want to! If 4k ever gets going it will be the symmetry of the sound system that dictates the seating distance, not the resolution of the projector.

To sum up for me, I would like to have a 300" screen. Unfortunately it is just not practical.

By the way, where do you live?

Hope all this helps.

Yeah this helps a great deal. I'm now strongly leaning towards building a false wall and getting the 212 LPs so I can place them up against the back of the wall with the screen right in front of them so the false wall only needs to be as far away from the real wall at the 212's are deep (plus a little space for wires, toe in). I think that will give me the extra space I was worried about the 212's needing. I had thought they would have had to go in front of the angled wall which would have put them 3-5' closer to my seating position than they will be behind the screen. Plus I'd guess the wife will appreciate them being hidden, having larger screen, not having to worry about the kid knocking them over etc. So quite a few benefits to this approach.

I live in Ohio (in dayton, work in cincy, parent live in cols, extended family in cleve). I think I've seen some people in this thread who live somewhere in OH so hopefully I'll be able to get out and listen to someone's setup at some point down the road.

Thanks!
steveko23 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,382
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 488 Post(s)
Liked: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveko23 View Post

Yeah this helps a great deal. I'm now strongly leaning towards building a false wall and getting the 212 LPs so I can place them up against the back of the wall with the screen right in front of them so the false wall only needs to be as far away from the real wall at the 212's are deep (plus a little space for wires, toe in). I think that will give me the extra space I was worried about the 212's needing. I had thought they would have had to go in front of the angled wall which would have put them 3-5' closer to my seating position than they will be behind the screen. Plus I'd guess the wife will appreciate them being hidden, having larger screen, not having to worry about the kid knocking them over etc. So quite a few benefits to this approach.

I live in Ohio (in dayton, work in cincy, parent live in cols, extended family in cleve). I think I've seen some people in this thread who live somewhere in OH so hopefully I'll be able to get out and listen to someone's setup at some point down the road.

Thanks!

Frohlich lives in Cincinnati and his system looks very impressive...

I used to live in Cincinnati, but have been in Knoxville for 6 years. I have the Noesis 212HT. If you wanted to come down this way, I would be more than happy to give you a demo. smile.gif
COACH2369 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,556
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2518 Post(s)
Liked: 1984
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post

That would be me biggrin.gif. And, by your request, I will post my impressions.

First, I would like to say thanks a ton for having me; it was a ton of fun -- like being at our own personal concert for a few hours. And the beer was cheaper, haha!

As for the JTR's -- well, I will say the general "they are loud and dynamic" commentary is certainly more than well deserved. These things cranked and never once sounded out of sorts. That said, in comparison to the Triad Platinums I recently had a chance to listen to (thanks CraigJohn if you're reading) I'd have to say that the Triad's had a "smoother" sound, if that makes any sense. Problem is, as Gooddoc and I were discussing at his place, it's really hard to tell how much of that is the room and how much the speaker. Craig's room is very well treated, Gooddoc's room is more lively, much like my own. The beauty of this is that were I to put the JTR's into my room, they would likely sound more similar to how I heard them than what I heard of the Triads. Which is to say, if I dropped the Triad's in my room, I could certainly not expect to hear anywhere near what I heard in Craig's. Without a doubt, though, the Traid's have nothing on the JTR's in terms of shear output capacity. Of course, I say this and most people on here probably say, "no $hit, tell us something we don't already know."

I'll quickly compare the two rooms, because, like I said, the rooms are so different that I have a hard time differentiating room from speakers. Before I do though, I will say I loved both demos and for different reasons. I can only hope to achieve what either of these two very awesome guys have done! If I get anywhere close, I'd be a ton happier than where I am now.

Gooddoc's room sounded very good, and for rocking out it was absolutely incredible! I demo'd my favorite Breaking Benjamin track (Away) and easily found Gooddoc's "clip point" because the clarity was so crazy. Afterwards, we both had to take a quick break to let our ears cool off, lol. This song on the Triad's had quite a different character -- on them, all the content was there, and it was very exceptionally clear, but I wanted so much more output and neither Craig nor I was sure the speakers (or Craig's amp) had it in them to deliver it. I'll also mention that Gooddoc's bass response was so taught; he integrated his subs splendidly with the JTR's! Though I think my preference would have been to kick the house curve up a notch (or six, lol), especially with as much power he has on tap! But, I know I'm of the rare "ULF-tard" variety, lol.

That said, what Craig's room lacked in shear output, it made up for in the intimate moments. For example, Damien Rice's "Volcano" just sucked me right into the recording. At Gooddoc's, the track had all the pieces, but almost felt...clinical. Though, it's so hard to say how much of that intimacy was created because of the Traids and how much was because Craig's room is so exceptionally well treated. He has both a fantastic dedicated room and exceptional speakers. Poor Gooddoc and I have to do the best we can with our non-dedicated rooms, and I must say, Gooddoc has done superbly!

So...I guess I'm still up in the air -- on standby, I suppose. Fortunately, Gooddoc says treatments are coming. He may even invite me to help him and we can observe the transition together. Maybe afterwards I'll be even more smitten with the JTR's. Right now, though, if I'm being honest, money no object and someone twisting my arm, I'd probably chose the Triad's in a treated room and save my hearing. However, that could certainly all change in a heartbeat if the JTR's in a treated room come just a bit closer to the intimacy of the Triad+treated room combo. My guess is, there's a really good chance they will, as both speakers are very well engineered for accurate response. I hope the JTR's+treated room combo provides the best of both worlds -- intimate when desired and concert when required.

Nice review, can someone please remind me how much the Triad Platinum's cost again?
jbrown15 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 02:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
audio0947's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Nice review, can someone please remind me how much the Triad Platinum's cost again?
About $7,500 each. eek.gif

Close your eyes and hear the truth!
audio0947 is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 03:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,491
Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2115 Post(s)
Liked: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post

That would be me biggrin.gif. And, by your request, I will post my impressions.

First, I would like to say thanks a ton for having me; it was a ton of fun -- like being at our own personal concert for a few hours. And the beer was cheaper, haha!

It was great to have you over! I asked you to think about writing your impressions since most enthusiasts are always interested in comparative impressions and these exchanges are valuable to folks thinking about putting down a lot of hard earned cash on a set of speakers. You own neither of the speakers and those are the most valuable comparos IMO. Owners bias is ever present biggrin.gif.

The Triad Plat's are well designed speakers anyone would be happy to own and it didn't surprise me at all to hear you felt they have some strengths over the 212's. It will be interesting to see whether room treatments can close that gap a little. I suspect it will, but probably not completely given the most excellent dome tweeter in those Plat's. No doubt I have way too much reflective room energy up top that is clearly heard, so we'll see with the treatments what happens. To get the best from the 212's I need them, that's for sure.

That listening session was the most I'd pushed my system since my latest sub optimization and I have to admit the cleanliness and articulation of the bass took me by surprise. You remember the drums on that Jeff Beck disc?, lol. I thought that was just sick. Every beat on those machine-gun drum kicks seemed perfectly reproduced - no smearing. It was like a percussive back massage. If I can get the 212's to that level with room treatments I'll be done. Stick a fork in me. See, owner's bias rears its ugly head tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
Gooddoc is offline  
Old 12-20-2013, 03:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 982
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio0947 View Post

About $7,500 each. eek.gif
Yep, and that's rub #2. My room is just like Gooddoc's -- untreated. To pay $15k on speakers and drop them into an untreated room seems...well like the room is unworthy. Moreover, I'd much rather have a best-of-both-worlds system. Intimate and concert-like -- in my opinion Craig's get's the nod to the former and Gooddoc's, without a doubt, the latter. I think with some treatment, though, Gooddoc's may be my ideal system.

To throw in another monkey wrench, I still haven't had the pleasure of hearing the Seaton's. So, they may also be a good in-between. Got to love options, lol....
DreamWarrior is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Tags
215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp , noesis
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off