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carp's Avatar carp 12:11 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post


Sorry Rob. FIXKED smile.gif


Hey I'm still like you man, smile.gif I still use my painted wall and love it. Beast and others really make me want to change though, that and the fact that when I'm in my second row the sound from the center really suffers since it's so low. Guys like Beast, Pop, and Gorilla laying on the peer pressure doesn't help. smile.gifcool.gif

Coincidentally I'm VERY interested in the Falcon screens - I think I might jump as soon as they get masking panels - that and when I get some money back that I loaned to the Govt. I'll get to see Pop's Falcon AT screen and Gorilla's DIY AT screen here in a couple of weeks, that will give me a good idea - however I think I'm already sold because I saw a local avs member's room (he recently completed it) this week and I love how clean his room is with his AT screen. His room is on a completely other level that I'll never have but the AT part of it I could do.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24138842


Still, there is something about seeing all your speakers and subs that I like and I do think part of me will miss that and currently tv/football look GREAT with the lights all the way up, I don't want to lose that.

carp's Avatar carp 12:15 PM 12-31-2013
RMK and others,

I vaguely remember you discussing attenuators so that 0 can be reference when calibrating the Noesis. I wasn't interested at the time so I didn't pay attention but now I am interested. Is anyone using them? Any downsides to them other than having to spend money? Does anyone have a link?

thanks
Reefdvr27's Avatar Reefdvr27 12:18 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


I never realized it until this post but I am Addicted to buying Blu-rays. If it has 10 seconds of Badass bass its mine. When it comes to concert Blu-rays As long as it sounds good I buy it even if I don't like the group. My thoughts are "well someone may stop by that does like it" so just in case.

My New Years Resolution: Quit Buying so many Blu-Rays

Chris
Your not alone my friend. Every Tuesday I goto Walmart or Bestbuy and get my new weekly releases of Blu Rays. I probably have 30 or so not even opened yet. However I buy blu rays irregardless of bass or not. I will be on my way in a bit to pick up this weeks new releases in a bit. The Flixster app has been my worst enemy considering that that app shows all the upcoming movies for months. I know everything coming out and the ratings. I cannot resist buying them. The good thing is the wife is totally cool with my insanity.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 12:25 PM 12-31-2013
Carp,

http://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

N8 and some of the other guys just simply level match and make -10 reference for their systems without needing the attenuators, and with you using internal power from the avr, you really don't have a choice, but if you go with external power, the attenuators work great. If I just level matched the OCD in me would never allow me to accept that -10 was actually reference....
countryWV's Avatar countryWV 12:26 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I am now back in the market for some used the Noesis speakers.
That is one Lonely market and b/c of this I would imagine the resale value is almost as high as new ones minus the shipping and Wait time.

Then again the wait time for used 212s may indeed be longer then new ones from Jeff to include his overly Optimistic estimated shipping dates.
Chris
RMK!'s Avatar RMK! 12:27 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

RMK and others,

I vaguely remember you discussing attenuators so that 0 can be reference when calibrating the Noesis. I wasn't interested at the time so I didn't pay attention but now I am interested. Is anyone using them? Any downsides to them other than having to spend money? Does anyone have a link?

thanks

Don't bother Carp, I tilted at this windmill because I thought it might be throwing Audyssey off due to the max 12db cuts to the LCR's post Audyssey. Turns out, it doesn't matter and when level matched with the other speakers my theoretical reference level is now -5 MV with 7-8 db level cuts on the Noesis LCR's.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 12:31 PM 12-31-2013
RMK!

You sold your Orbit Shifters?

eek.gif


All Aboard! wink.gif


carp's Avatar carp 12:33 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Carp,

http://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-12-db-rca-line-level-audio-attenuator-pair--266-244?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

N8 and some of the other guys just simply level match and make -10 reference for their systems without needing the attenuators, and with you using internal power from the avr, you really don't have a choice, but if you go with external power, the attenuators work great. If I just level matched the OCD in me would never allow me to accept that -10 was actually reference....


Thanks Brandon - oh, I see, like you say I'd need an amp.

Ok, so basically what i need to do is:

1. Turn up the trims on the surrounds 10 db's.
2. Match the LCR to the new volume of the surounds.
3. Use -10 on the receiver as reference.

That's it? Like someone mentioned, does that mess up Dynamic EQ? I really liked what I heard with it last night.
carp's Avatar carp 12:34 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Don't bother Carp, I tilted at this windmill because I thought it might be throwing Audyssey off due to the max 12db cuts to the LCR's post Audyssey. Turns out, it doesn't matter and when level matched with the other speakers my theoretical reference level is now -5 MV with 7-8 db level cuts on the Noesis LCR's.

Ah, got it - thanks - still I wonder about dynamic eq?
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 12:36 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Thanks Brandon - oh, I see, like you say I'd need an amp.

Ok, so basically what i need to do is:

1. Turn up the trims on the surrounds 10 db's.
2. Match the LCR to the new volume of the surounds.
3. Use -10 on the receiver as reference.

That's it? Like someone mentioned, does that mess up Dynamic EQ? I really liked what I heard with it last night.

Just level set ALL speakers to 85dB, then naturally -10 will be reference. You want to then engage reference level offset (another audyssey option) and set it to 10. What that does is bring audyssey's dynamic EQ back in line with the levels you would then be using. so reference at -10, there would be no more adjustment with dynamic EQ (because at reference dynamic EQ should never be working...it is designed to improve tonal balance at below reference levels).
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 12:37 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Thanks Brandon - oh, I see, like you say I'd need an amp.

Ok, so basically what i need to do is:

1. Turn up the trims on the surrounds 10 db's.
2. Match the LCR to the new volume of the surounds.
3. Use -10 on the receiver as reference.

That's it? Like someone mentioned, does that mess up Dynamic EQ? I really liked what I heard with it last night.

If you use reference level offset -10 you also want to turn up your sub trim because it will cut that as well.
carp's Avatar carp 12:51 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Just level set ALL speakers to 85dB, then naturally -10 will be reference. You want to then engage reference level offset (another audyssey option) and set it to 10. What that does is bring audyssey's dynamic EQ back in line with the levels you would then be using. so reference at -10, there would be no more adjustment with dynamic EQ (because at reference dynamic EQ should never be working...it is designed to improve tonal balance at below reference levels).


Using receiver test tones and omnimic? I hate finding reference that way because nothing is consistent.

With my pioneer elite I get a different result for how loud reference is on my master volume from using the following methods:

1. AVIA calibration disk test tones
2. WOW calibration disk test tones
3. Pioneer Elite receiver test tones
4. MCACC auto setup

It's nuts, none of the 4 (including #3 and #4 which is really baffling) methods give me the same master volume for reference. I've been using the WOW disk since from what I've read it has the best chance at being accurate but it still bugs me and i was hoping that the xt32 calibration was the gold standard for finding actual reference.

If I would have remembered I would have checked what XT32 gave me compared to the WOW test tones on my receiver but I forgot to try that last night.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 12:56 PM 12-31-2013
No biggie. I would use omnimic's pseudo noise sequence to level set as the test tones in AVR's are PREAudyssey so if they are picking up on a peak or something, the results will be skewed. Once audyssey has run, you can pop in the OM disc and use it to level set your LCR. looking real-time at the graphs should get you in perfect shape biggrin.gif
carp's Avatar carp 01:03 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

No biggie. I would use omnimic's pseudo noise sequence to level set as the test tones in AVR's are PREAudyssey so if they are picking up on a peak or something, the results will be skewed. Once audyssey has run, you can pop in the OM disc and use it to level set your LCR. looking real-time at the graphs should get you in perfect shape biggrin.gif


Ahhhhh, never thought of that.

So, the omnimic tone is 20db's under reference so just use 85 db's at the main LP right?

Do you know which track that is?

I'd like to check today and see if it matches up with WOW since I'm using WOW and -10 for reference on my elite.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 01:07 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ahhhhh, never thought of that.

So, the omnimic tone is 20db's under reference so just use 85 db's at the main LP right?

Do you know which track that is?

I'd like to check today and see if it matches up with WOW since I'm using WOW and -10 for reference on my elite.

Don't remember which tracks, but you would want to use left channel pseudo noise, then the right channel pseudo noise, and to trick the system you put in the monophonic pseudo noise (track 1) and switch to dolby pL2x and it should play through your center....surrounds you can get close enough just using the internal test tones, and with as good as your setup is without EQ, my guess is the post EQ response is good enough, you still could more than likely get by with just using the internal test tones. I can with my setup, since response doesn't have any peaks in it, so yours will likely be ok as well...I just like to double check with OM and actually see it on a graph.
asoofi1's Avatar asoofi1 01:27 PM 12-31-2013
Quick JTR community poll:
1. Dual S2 or dual OS, and why? Try to forget the numbers and base it on the experience.
2. If you own either, would you get again or get the other, or even just a single?
3. What percent of capacity are you using day to day of your sub(s)?

Appreciate your feedback.

Trying to make this the last time I have to buy subs, without dying that is wink.gif

/asim
Frohlich's Avatar Frohlich 01:37 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Me being in the same boat, I understand exactly why the custom center was a great option!! I love that setup and would also have done exactly the same thing!!

Hey, I have to give you credit for sending me down this path. Remember me asking you the dimensions of your custom center a few weeks back. This is why smile.gif

I knew Jeff could do custom work and I had this space mapped out to the inch last year based on my current JTR speakers. Seems like a shame to tear it down when I really like the asthetics of the current layout. So this seems like the right solution for me ....for now....until I get the next wild ass idea to upgrade something smile.gif
Frohlich's Avatar Frohlich 01:40 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Now I feel a little insulted, I was asking why you didn't and suggested going with an AT screen like four months ago!...lol tongue.gif

Maybe some others will weigh in and it could be different with the 212HT's but my 228HT's seem to like a good amount of toe in, you don't seem to have a lot of room to move speakers around Frohlich. Will you have enough space to toe in the 212HT's?

Also I hope you plan on laying the center channel flat like your T8 and have it angled up towards your ears?

I think my new Falcon Screens 120" AT screen will be arriving next week, I can't wait! biggrin.gif

Insulted...hey, I gave you dibs on N8DOGGS 212 when they come up for sale...thats respecting my Canuck JTR brothers biggrin.gif

I do have some room for toe in as the stand underneath is 20 by 20. Should be enough...I hope. I do also have my center tilted up slightly...I made that change after I took these original pictures. Plus I am an HT guy first, music is an afterthought for now. Though that might change after the upgrade smile.gif
Frohlich's Avatar Frohlich 01:44 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hey I'm still like you man, smile.gif I still use my painted wall and love it. Beast and others really make me want to change though, that and the fact that when I'm in my second row the sound from the center really suffers since it's so low. Guys like Beast, Pop, and Gorilla laying on the peer pressure doesn't help. smile.gifcool.gif

Coincidentally I'm VERY interested in the Falcon screens - I think I might jump as soon as they get masking panels - that and when I get some money back that I loaned to the Govt. I'll get to see Pop's Falcon AT screen and Gorilla's DIY AT screen here in a couple of weeks, that will give me a good idea - however I think I'm already sold because I saw a local avs member's room (he recently completed it) this week and I love how clean his room is with his AT screen. His room is on a completely other level that I'll never have but the AT part of it I could do.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24138842


Still, there is something about seeing all your speakers and subs that I like and I do think part of me will miss that and currently tv/football look GREAT with the lights all the way up, I don't want to lose that.

Yeah, I like seeing my speakers. Makes it seem more real smile.gif You actually need an AT screen to hide all your subs that way you can keep adding more behind the screen and the Misses will never know....Popalock, start taking notes here...AT screens are to hide the new toys biggrin.gif
HTPCat's Avatar HTPCat 01:52 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ahhhhh, never thought of that.

So, the omnimic tone is 20db's under reference so just use 85 db's at the main LP right?

Do you know which track that is?

I'd like to check today and see if it matches up with WOW since I'm using WOW and -10 for reference on my elite.
Just dealt with this on my Denon AVR4311 using the internal amps and LCR JTR T12s & Def Tech Pro Monitor 1000s for surrounds, Audyssey (Pro Kit) maxed the trims at -12 for LCR and SR was at -1.5 and SL was 0. After lots of discussion I decided to measure the surrounds (which audyssey has set without maxing to 75dB MV = 0) with RS spl meter and REW noise generator (also used DVE disc & Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd edition) to basically find what my RS meter would measure - it was very close 74 ~ 75. I then bumped the surrounds +5dB making reference -5 MV and then level matched the LCR making them all 79 ~ 80dB and setting RLO in the AVR to 5dB. I completed this a few days ago and have been listening to music and watching movies non-stop it sounds so good biggrin.gif Just finished Pink Floyd DSOM SACD and now moving on to some Buddy Guy on vinyl man this utter bliss cool.gif
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 02:02 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post


I can see in the bottom left of this picture you have your built in AV stand and then the first built in speaker stand is set in a little. How far is the front of the built in stand from the front of the AV stand?
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 02:04 PM 12-31-2013
Ok holy crap, It just dawned on me but you could go A-T!!!!

Haha, well, really, you could do that AND stand your S2's vertical and fit two more in those little spots you made for them. How universal of you to think of that in advance!!!!!
COACH2369's Avatar COACH2369 02:50 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Ok holy crap, It just dawned on me but you could go A-T!!!!

Haha, well, really, you could do that AND stand your S2's vertical and fit two more in those little spots you made for them. How universal of you to think of that in advance!!!!!


That sounds like an AMAZING idea.... wink.gif
Frohlich's Avatar Frohlich 02:54 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I can see in the bottom left of this picture you have your built in AV stand and then the first built in speaker stand is set in a little. How far is the front of the built in stand from the front of the AV stand?


Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Ok holy crap, It just dawned on me but you could go A-T!!!!

Haha, well, really, you could do that AND stand your S2's vertical and fit two more in those little spots you made for them. How universal of you to think of that in advance!!!!!


jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 03:16 PM 12-31-2013
^^^^^ LOL.... seriously though, depending on how much room you have between the front on the built-in speaker stand and built-in AV rack you could very easily frame in a false wall beside the AV rack. And that would allow for a really nice AT screen and allow you to run three 212HT's vertical. And of course add another two Cap S2's!...lol biggrin.gif
Landmonster's Avatar Landmonster 03:41 PM 12-31-2013
Calling all JTR guys....

Can anyone directly compare the JTR Noesis series against the Klipsch RF-7ii series?

Please PM me if necessary!
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 03:46 PM 12-31-2013
Popalock would be the best to compare the two as he has the 7ii's and has heard the Noesis on several occasions at this point.
NWCgrad's Avatar NWCgrad 03:48 PM 12-31-2013
Wow this is an active thread. I had the opportunity to listen to carp and Archeae's JTR's yesterday and man am I impressed with there tonality and clarity. Both also have killer bass!

Listening to the worlds all time greatest band on carp's system after he recalibrated with XT32 was fanfreakintastic...was amazed at how detailed it was feom top to bottom.

All the clips at Archeae's place were superb! I felt the air movement that he likes so much and found it to be very cool.

Thanks guys for opening your homes to a stranger only known from AVS . I had a great time and am starting to setback funds to upgrade my inadequate subwoofage.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 03:54 PM 12-31-2013
Figure: A) the Klipsch crossover and driver quality is easily 1/2 or less the quality on the JTR. B) Then factor in the law of dimminishing returns.

The answer is the JTR are better - how much better depends on your subjective opinion on the truth of B)
carp's Avatar carp 04:12 PM 12-31-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

Wow this is an active thread. I had the opportunity to listen to carp and Archeae's JTR's yesterday and man am I impressed with there tonality and clarity. Both also have killer bass!

Listening to the worlds all time greatest band on carp's system after he recalibrated with XT32 was fanfreakintastic...was amazed at how detailed it was feom top to bottom.

All the clips at Archeae's place were superb! I felt the air movement that he likes so much and found it to be very cool.

Thanks guys for opening your homes to a stranger only known from AVS . I had a great time and am starting to setback funds to upgrade my inadequate subwoofage.




By world's greatest band he of course means:





Not my pick for #1 but not going to argue - love Sabbath. Their newest album is already one of my all time favorite albums and I'm not one of those guys that normally thinks newer is better, in fact quite the opposite. I can't believe those old guys could make an album like that..... wow.
Tags: 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
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