Official JTR speaker thread - Page 469 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14041 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihavenoidea View Post

Happy New Year everyone!

I've been following this thread for a couple of months while trying to work out the best system for my circumstances.  I'm amazed at how helpful and friendly all of you guys are, especially given that many online audio / visual discussions seem to degenerate into slanging matches.

I live in Sydney, Australia and I wouldn't normally consider purchasing speakers without hearing them first, but opinions on the JTR speakers seem to be so overwhelmingly positive that I'm ready to make an exception.  I've been trying to finalise my order over the past few weeks to beat the price rise, but I haven't had much luck getting in touch with Jeff by email or phone (which is totally understandable for an overworked one-man operation over the holiday period).

If anyone could help with the following questions I'd be most grateful:

1. How exactly is the Noesis 215T expected to differ from the Noesis 212HT?  If it uses the same compression driver does this mean that the only difference will be in bass extension?

I was in Sydney in 2012. Great city ... cool.gif

Yes, bass extension to 22Hz (and lower)

2. Does anyone have any idea how the bass performance of the 215T will compare to the existing JTR subwoofers?  I was planning on ordering two Captivator S1's so I'm interested to know whether a pair of 215T's might outperform them.

I'll let you know in March ...

3. When the Noesis 212HT and 228HT are placed upright, at what height are the tweeters?  I just want to work out the best height for the stands.

Use the center measurement for the speaker height.

4. I've seen it argued that the only real benefit of a centre speaker is for off-axis listening, and that you can actually get better sound by dispensing with the centre altogether.  Have any of you ever tested movies on your JTR systems without the centre speaker?

Yes and it was fine for the center sweet spot seat as with any speaker but outside of that, not so much.

5. Does Jeff usually require full payment up-front to secure the order?  Given that he apparently has a backlog of at least 5 weeks now, I'm somewhat nervous about paying a crapload of money for something that I won't see for months (taking into account shipping time to Australia).

You pays your money and takes your chances ... Feel any better? tongue.gif

6. Out of interest, if you happy JTR owners were forced (probably at gunpoint) to buy a different and significantly cheaper brand of speakers, what would you choose?

Seriously, I know of nothing at or near this price point that is in the same league for HT speakers.

Thanks in advance for your help!

No problemo smile.gif
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post #14042 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 09:49 PM
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If I'm calling them ugly, then my babies are ugly...lol.

I'm going to have a few Noesis owners over here in a few weeks. I'll ask them to report back after I attempt to ear rape them.

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Do it. Report back.
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post #14043 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 10:06 PM
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Which JTR subs should I pick to compliment the Klipsch RF-7ii package? When an explosion happens in my home theater, I want my audience members to feel like a mule kicked them in the chest. (While maintaining optimized sound quality of course)


Extreme measures!


Edit: What are the main differences between Capivator 2400, S1, and S2?
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post #14044 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Which JTR subs should I pick to compliment the Klipsch RF-7ii package? When an explosion happens in my home theater, I want my audience members to feel like a mule kicked them in the chest. (While maintaining optimized sound quality of course)


Extreme measures!

Build 4 Marty subs!!!
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post #14045 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 10:30 PM
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Build 4 Marty subs!!!

What are those?
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post #14046 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 10:48 PM
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That is so wrong Popalock...I think you just called his baby ugly. smile.gif

I'll say this, my car isn't fast but it's fast enough for me...primarily because I haven't driven a Porsche or similar. Don't listen to the Noesis 212HT and you won't have any issues with the RF-7IIs. smile.gif

Good advise never listen to a speaker you can't afford lol. 4600 a pair vs 2k or less street price of the 7s smile.gif. They should destroy them I would think.

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post #14047 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 11:08 PM
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post #14048 of 33814 Old 12-31-2013, 11:46 PM
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Thanks dlbeck and RMK for responding so quickly, and on New Year's Eve no less!

 

Sorry about the double post.  It was because of the link I inserted in the first version, but now I've learnt my lesson.

 

Now I just have to work out whether I keep bothering Jeff to try to lock in an order at 2013 prices, or wait and see what the 215T brings.  I suppose having separate subs allows a lot more flexibility with placement, but if the 215T is enough to make you sell your Orbit Shifters RMK...  :eek: 

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post #14049 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihavenoidea View Post

If anyone could help with the following questions I'd be most grateful:

1. How exactly is the Noesis 215T expected to differ from the Noesis 212HT?  If it uses the same compression driver does this mean that the only difference will be in bass extension?
Larger horn and different crossover to 15" drivers allows for a 300hz crossover to the horn rather than a 400hz on the 212HT. Plus a L/C/R of the 215HT is supposedly about the equivalent as two orbit shifters. (3 towers = about the same as two of the most powerful commercial/ID subs I'm aware of).

2. Does anyone have any idea how the bass performance of the 215T will compare to the existing JTR subwoofers?  I was planning on ordering two Captivator S1's so I'm interested to know whether a pair of 215T's might outperform them.
See above. Jeff's making these full rangers the real deal. When you make a flagship - make a flagship.


3. When the Noesis 212HT and 228HT are placed upright, at what height are the tweeters?  I just want to work out the best height for the stands.
depends on the stands.

4. I've seen it argued that the only real benefit of a centre speaker is for off-axis listening, and that you can actually get better sound by dispensing with the centre altogether (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9821918-47.html).  Have any of you ever tested movies on your JTR systems without the centre speaker?
I've tried no center - I'm not a fan. Some like it, I think the ones that like it are far outweighed by the ones who have tried it and think it's a fail.

5. Does Jeff usually require full payment up-front to secure the order?  Given that he apparently has a backlog of at least 5 weeks now, I'm somewhat nervous about paying a crapload of money for something that I won't see for months (taking into account shipping time to Australia).
Yes, even if you were stateside - Jeff builds to order typically - and that takes time. Ordering JTR is not a speedy proposition. Despite that - look at his good press.

6. Out of interest, if you happy JTR owners were forced (probably at gunpoint) to buy a different and significantly cheaper brand of speakers, what would you choose?
Seaton Sound or Salk from the ID vendors.
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post #14050 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Which JTR subs should I pick to compliment the Klipsch RF-7ii package? When an explosion happens in my home theater, I want my audience members to feel like a mule kicked them in the chest. (While maintaining optimized sound quality of course)


Extreme measures!


Edit: What are the main differences between Capivator 2400, S1, and S2?

You sound like an Orbit Shifter prospective owner. The Orbit Shifter is Jeff's most powerful sub. It's a horn sub and the size of a small refrigerator. Two of them can wreck your house. They are kings at 20hz and above, but still can act like a single 18" sealed below 20hz.
A single Orbit shifter is like four S1's above 20hz.
The 2400 is a ported sub. It is a smaller cabinet and sort of a middle of the ground sub. The Captivator drivers move a lot of air through the slot port. An effect I find I love. I'm also a fan of powerful ported subs for movie use. They are very tactile, a discussion held in the ULF thread that has yet to be scientifically explained with a satisfactory answer - but is subjectively held by many. Generally speaking a ported sub sounds and is more tactile around port tune than sealed subs - even when you attempt to match the FRs. The 2400 is like 2+ S1's at around 20hz. (but has little to no useable output below port tune, and is similar to a single S1 the farther you go above port tune. The port tune on the ported 2400 is at 17.5hz.)
The S1 is a sealed sub. Sealed subs often are regarded as the sub of choice on this forum. Not sure I agree with that statement - but around here - sealed subs are typically the general advice. Many think they sound the cleanest. They play full bandwidth. The Orbit Shifter would play like a single S1 below 20hz, but the S1 is miniscule in size compared to the orbit shifter. You probably can't hear much below 20hz. People chase sub 20hz for the handful of movies that have sub 20hz content that you can feel, or notice your house shaking, even though you can't hear it.

The above are generalizations - but concepts are solid.


If you want to be mule kicked in the chest - get an orbit shifter or two. If not those - buy a pair of ported caps for the next best effect. For the chest kick you are usally talking about 70hz kick drum beats. Horn > Ported > Sealed for what you describe to be that which you are looking for.

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post #14051 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 02:35 AM
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Thanks Archaea!

 

Now I'm definitely leaning towards waiting to see how the 215T turns out.  If I ordered the 212HT's now I'd be waiting a few months for them anyway.

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Happy new year JTR brothers!!!
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Hapy new year JTR brothers!!!
Happy new year to you and all .smile.gif
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post #14054 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 09:25 AM
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For someone in a hurry to get his JTRs: I put my order in a month ago for 2 Cap S2's, 3 Noesis 212 HT's, and 4 Slated 8HT's. But, due to the theater being in my home under construction, I won't need any of them until April. I'm towing a car behind a U-Haul truck headed for Wisconsin this weekend and if I can get a call in to Jeff in advance I might reroute a bit and drop into Oconomowoc on Monday for a chat. Perhaps he would delay my order and put someone in my place in line. smile.gif

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post #14055 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihavenoidea View Post

Thanks dlbeck and RMK for responding so quickly, and on New Year's Eve no less!

Sorry about the double post.  It was because of the link I inserted in the first version, but now I've learnt my lesson.

Now I just have to work out whether I keep bothering Jeff to try to lock in an order at 2013 prices, or wait and see what the 215T brings.  I suppose having separate subs allows a lot more flexibility with placement, but if the 215T is enough to make you sell your Orbit Shifters RMK...  eek.gif  

Yes, sadly I have no friends and often find myself alone roaming the internet on days where normal people celebrate. redface.gif

To console myself, I spent the evening watching the Hobbit (three dee) at reference level and I had arguably the best AV experience of anyone in the Northern Hemisphere. It was a wonderful cinematic ride and I can't imagine my HT will ever sound better. A sane person would not be making the changes I am, and Archaeas Crazy Train photo a few pages back was very apropos.

That said, for me the 215's represent a big challenge in attempting to consolidate all that sound energy of the LCR Noesis and dual OS's into just 3 main speaker cabinets. The potential issues are obvious and may or may not be overcome without the addition of more subs. In any case, I like the concept of a true full range speaker for music and if the 215T's alone can give me close to the impact bass of the dual OS's I will be very happy. Only one way to find out ... smile.gif

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post #14056 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 10:36 AM
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RMK- after reading most of this thread; maybe JTR speakers are the best friends to have. Happy New Years...Vince
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post #14057 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 10:37 AM
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With the 215 speakers set to large, will it be possible to incorporate a pair of quality subs with them?

JTR Noesis 212HTR (LR)JTR 228 (Center and Surrounds)Seaton SubMersive HP Plus and Minus (Subs)Denon 3312 (Receiver)Sherbourn PA 7-350 (Amp)Oppo BDP-103 (BluRay Player) and Sharp 80" TV
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post #14058 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Which JTR subs should I pick to compliment the Klipsch RF-7ii package? When an explosion happens in my home theater, I want my audience members to feel like a mule kicked them in the chest. (While maintaining optimized sound quality of course)


Extreme measures!


Edit: What are the main differences between Capivator 2400, S1, and S2?
I have heard all of them in approx 3000^3 ft room, and my impression is as follows;

catching a Jay Cutler pass in the chest from 10yds out = s1
medium mule kick to the chest = s2 or Cap 2400
large mule kick to the chest = 1 OS
full thoroughbred race horse kick to the chest = dual OS's

the last two setups I have not heard and is only my humble estimate of what it must sound/feel like;

Being in a parked F250 and getting hit by a Dodge Ram 1500 going 25 mph = see Popalock's set up
Being in a parked Honda Civic and getting hit by a fully loaded semi truck going 85mph = see N8DOGG's set up

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Sony VPL HW40ES
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #14059 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post

With the 215 speakers set to large, will it be possible to incorporate a pair of quality subs with them?

That is determined by the processor but in general, yes. I don't know the exact method of signal mixing and DSP I will be using but I have a pretty knowledgable guy assisting with this wink.gif. I may be adding some watts if the W4S amp isn't up to the task of driving those 15's.

Clearly, I don't have have everything figured out. Much is TBD ... smile.gif

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post #14060 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 10:55 AM
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RMK- after reading most of this thread; maybe JTR speakers are the best friends to have. Happy New Years...Vince

As possessions go, they are pretty nice ... wink.gif

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post #14061 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

That is determined by the processor but in general, yes. I don't know the exact method of signal mixing and DSP I will be using but I have a pretty knowledgable guy assisting with this wink.gif. I may be adding some watts if the W4S amp isn't up to the task of driving those 15's.

Clearly, I don't have have everything figured out. Much is TBD ... smile.gif
Rob, looks like the LG could be back on your short list? You can't get away from it, stop tyring!! Of course I could be projecting;)

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #14062 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 11:16 AM
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Rob, looks like the LG could be back on your short list? You can't get away from it, stop tyring!! Of course I could be projecting;)

I just let a very well priced one slip through my fingers by making a stupid low ball offer instead of just nutting up and paying the buy it now price. redface.gif

The W4S's 1000wpc might be enough and I have posed that question to JP but no response. He must be busy ... tongue.gifwink.gif

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post #14063 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 11:28 AM
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I just let a very well priced one slip through my fingers by making a stupid low ball offer instead of just nutting up and paying the buy it now price. redface.gif

The W4S's 1000wpc might be enough and I have posed that question to JP but no response. He must be busy ... tongue.gifwink.gif

I also am hoping my D-sonic will be enough but I've got a RMX5050 for backup in case it's not..... Bring on the 215's!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #14064 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 11:47 AM
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I also am hoping my D-sonic will be enough but I've got a RMX5050 for backup in case it's not..... Bring on the 215's!
there is no doubt the 215's will do well with the d sonic or the w4s since the sensitivity is still really high. The only real question is how far do you want to push it. How powerful is the RMX? Class D?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #14065 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 12:00 PM
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there is no doubt the 215's will do well with the d sonic or the w4s since the sensitivity is still really high. The only real question is how far do you want to push it. How powerful is the RMX? Class D?

Its a huge class A/B, around 1800 watts per channel. One thing I do know is that when you have subs that reach 20hz, you need power, I guess it will be seen if 1000 watts is enough, since I'm betting the requirements to get full output will be in the 2000 range, like the current Noesis.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #14066 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 05:19 PM
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Any word on center channel for the 210 and 215? If not I'm thinking of just 212 LCR upgrades and 2 more S2's and do the surrounds later. For me I just don't feel upgrading my surrounds yet if it's just for surround duty. Btw, will it be hard to mix horn subs with sealed? Is it a bad idea? I'm thinking of spreading my subs around my HT room. 2 upfront, 1 on each side of the wall mid way ( L/R walls ). And two at rear.
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post #14067 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 05:37 PM
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Any word on center channel for the 210 and 215?

I would think either run an LCR setup of all 210T's or 215T's or use any of the Noesis line of speakers as a centre.
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post #14068 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

For someone in a hurry to get his JTRs: I put my order in a month ago for 2 Cap S2's, 3 Noesis 212 HT's, and 4 Slated 8HT's. But, due to the theater being in my home under construction, I won't need any of them until April. I'm towing a car behind a U-Haul truck headed for Wisconsin this weekend and if I can get a call in to Jeff in advance I might reroute a bit and drop into Oconomowoc on Monday for a chat. Perhaps he would delay my order and put someone in my place in line. smile.gif

I would love to get my 212s sooner. Just finished the theater room and it's missing 3 speakers smile.gif

I will be happy to swap with you if Jeff doesn't mind.
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post #14069 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Any word on center channel for the 210 and 215? If not I'm thinking of just 212 LCR upgrades and 2 more S2's and do the surrounds later. For me I just don't feel upgrading my surrounds yet if it's just for surround duty. Btw, will it be hard to mix horn subs with sealed? Is it a bad idea? I'm thinking of spreading my subs around my HT room. 2 upfront, 1 on each side of the wall mid way ( L/R walls ). And two at rear.
in my experience they can be mixed with what I will call fairly good results but only if you can independently control each sub for time delay, PEQ, and crossover type and have a lot of time to try different permutations all while taking measurements with something like REW or similar. Much easier to stick with identical subs. In fact I am seriously considering getting rid of my Epik and velodyne sealed subs and just adding a third OS to simplify and improve the set up.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Live, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifiers: Sunfire TGA7400 (surrounds), Lab Gruppen FP10000Q (mains)
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HTR (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Sony VPL HW40ES
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #14070 of 33814 Old 01-01-2014, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Any word on center channel for the 210 and 215? If not I'm thinking of just 212 LCR upgrades and 2 more S2's and do the surrounds later. For me I just don't feel upgrading my surrounds yet if it's just for surround duty. Btw, will it be hard to mix horn subs with sealed? Is it a bad idea? I'm thinking of spreading my subs around my HT room. 2 upfront, 1 on each side of the wall mid way ( L/R walls ). And two at rear.

Six S2's? ... hummm

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