Official JTR speaker thread - Page 487 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:35 PM
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Anyone interested in a Sherbourn pa7-350. I'm ready to sell. Just PM me

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
112" fixed screen
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner969 View Post

Sorry if I misled, I don't have veneer jtrs. I wanted to go as brutish looking as possible. It was a big argument with my wife, but now she concedes that the brutish look of the jtrs is what makes the HT room feel like a theatre. smile.gif Of course, now it sounds better than a real theatre as well. smile.gif

While obviously not a furnisher grade finish the stock black look really isn't that bad. And IMO it actually causes them to blend in even easier because they don't call as much attention to them.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

While obviously not a furnisher grade finish the stock black look really isn't that bad. And IMO it actually causes them to blend in even easier because they don't call as much attention to them.

I agree, I was thinking about piano black for the 215H's but Archaea's thread on preferred finishes moved me back to the good old durable standard JTR finish. I hate high maintenance ... in all of it's guises.

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Old 01-09-2014, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I agree, I was thinking about piano black for the 215H's but Archaea's thread on preferred finishes moved me back to the good old durable standard JTR finish. I hate high maintenance ... in all of it's guises.
no maintenance required for satin finished veneers! just saying. full 9.2 veneered system, soon as jeff ships!



on the side note, 2x of WHICH captivator equals to a single OS?
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:54 PM
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As archaea mentioned, I am having an issue with the overall level differences between seating positions. It's amazing how on my three seat couch the OS can easily play vomit inducing levels, but three feet forward and to the right of my couch where the lazy boy sits, the bass level is neutered.

Now don't get me wrong, I love this sub. I may not have heard the multitudes of subs that some of you have heard, but this os, it just seems so clean. For instance, when a movie plays a .50 cal machine gun this os is just so visceral and clean. I can't really put my finger on it but I love the way it sounds. I just wish I had room for two because I don't know what to do about my FR.

P.s. I found a spot in my room that allows me to get down to 15hz. Would I be opening up a can of worms by asking if chasing that last 5hz is worth it?
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

P.s. I found a spot in my room that allows me to get down to 15hz. Would I be opening up a can of worms by asking if chasing that last 5hz is worth it?

You do realize you are in the JTR forum right, which basically means performance over aesthetics or pretty much any damn thing else. So yes, chase! Run like the wind. smile.gif

But seriously, do you mean with the single OS you currently have? I would say no because that is already low for an OS, which has its forte above 20Hz where there are very few subs in the world that can keep up. Now if you mean adding a second, then by all means call Jeff tomorrow, I t's not my money. smile.gif. But seriously again, the second OS would give you better response at the different listening positions. Then again, if you want 10 Hz bass, I don't think even two OSs will give you that as they aren't designed to go that low. You would need to switch to something like multiple S1s, S2s, or Submersives if you want to chase 10 Hz or lower.

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Old 01-09-2014, 11:18 PM
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To Archaea, Jbrown, or anyone else with sub knowledge:

What do you guys know about JL Audio subs for home theater use?

I just realized JL has been making home theater subs for several years now. Back in the car audio era, JL made some of the most kick-ass subs available. I wonder if they have made a good transition to home theater?

How would a nice JL Audio sub compare to a JTR sub, or a Seaton Submerisve I wonder?
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

To Archaea, Jbrown, or anyone else with sub knowledge:

What do you guys know about JL Audio subs for home theater use?

I just realized JL has been making home theater subs for several years now. Back in the car audio era, JL made some of the most kick-ass subs available. I wonder if they have made a good transition to home theater?

How would a nice JL Audio sub compare to a JTR sub, or a Seaton Submerisve I wonder?

I know one thing, it's going to be hard for people to take you serious with that 11.5 setup post you made.....lol

Seriously it's not even fair to compare JL to JTR or Seaton subs. The JL's cost more and would get pounded to a pulp. The JL is a well engineered sub for its size, but they are over priced IMO for the performance you get.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I know one thing, it's going to be hard for people to take you serious with that 11.5 setup post you made.....lol

Seriously it's not even fair to compare JL to JTR or Seaton subs. The JL's cost more and would get pounded to a pulp. The JL is a well engineered sub for its size, but they are over priced IMO for the performance you get.

I assumed everyone reading my "11.5 setup" post would just assume it was satire. Lol.


I have the Klipsch Reference series speakers (but no subs yet) and I'm still debating whether or not I should upgrade them to better speakers. I am thinking I may keep them for now, though. A) I re-tweaked my room setup to a better arrangement, B) I re-ran Audessy, and C) I just bought a new reference-quality Bluray disc: Dave Matthews concert at the Radio City Music Hall.

On that concert, my RF-7iis blew me away with clarity. They've never sounded better! Their performance seem to vary a lot depending on the media I am playing... but on top-quality Bluray discs they really do sound quite superb. I just need to add subs for the maximum effect.

Regardless of that decision, I certainly want to go with top-notch subs, since my system is used about 90% for home theater. Everyone says JTR subs and Seaton subs kick ass.... so I've been looking for deals on used JTR or Seaton subs. I can't find anything on the used market. I just came across some used JL Audio subs, and I just wondered if their performance compared at all.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

To Archaea, Jbrown, or anyone else with sub knowledge:

What do you guys know about JL Audio subs for home theater use?

I just realized JL has been making home theater subs for several years now. Back in the car audio era, JL made some of the most kick-ass subs available. I wonder if they have made a good transition to home theater?

How would a nice JL Audio sub compare to a JTR sub, or a Seaton Submerisve I wonder?

What, I thought you already ordered your JTR subs?!? wink.gif
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

To Archaea, Jbrown, or anyone else with sub knowledge:

What do you guys know about JL Audio subs for home theater use?

I just realized JL has been making home theater subs for several years now. Back in the car audio era, JL made some of the most kick-ass subs available. I wonder if they have made a good transition to home theater?

How would a nice JL Audio sub compare to a JTR sub, or a Seaton Submerisve I wonder?

That's one I haven't had the pleasure of hearing. The JL subs sure look amazing! They are probably the sexiest subwoofer I've seen, but the reality is they are high excursion 13" drivers, and JTR uses high excursion 18" drivers. As to output levels there is no contest. As to sound quality, both are top shelf. If small space and looks are paramount, then the JL may get the nod, but if performance is utmost concern an s1 or s2 will trounce the JL. The S1 is also very small. Many people compare the JL sub to the SVS SB13. They are very similar.
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/SB13-Ultra

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

You do realize you are in the JTR forum right, which basically means performance over aesthetics or pretty much any damn thing else. So yes, chase! Run like the wind. smile.gif

But seriously, do you mean with the single OS you currently have? I would say no because that is already low for an OS, which has its forte above 20Hz where there are very few subs in the world that can keep up. Now if you mean adding a second, then by all means call Jeff tomorrow, I t's not my money. smile.gif. But seriously again, the second OS would give you better response at the different listening positions. Then again, if you want 10 Hz bass, I don't think even two OSs will give you that as they aren't designed to go that low. You would need to switch to something like multiple S1s, S2s, or Submersives if you want to chase 10 Hz or lower.
Oh I didn't mean adding another os to the mix to get the last 5hz. I meant getting two "smaller" sealed 18's to join the mix. I honestly don't want to get rid of my os as I really do love the way this thing sounds/feels so I'm trying to work with it.
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:32 AM
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So I went to bed at midnight last night and woke up at 5am unable to shake this subwoofer placement nightmare I was having. Well, what would a normal person do? Go back to bed? Nah! I got up, went to the living room and got to work.

So I ended up flipping my os upside down so the mouth is now on top instead of the bottom. I then moved it directly behind the couch so that the mouth is now firing above the middle seating position. Initial impressions have me grinning but that could also be due to lack of sleep.

Well I'm going back to bed now fully expecting a scream of a wake up call after the wife has finished her cup of coffee and fully wakes up 😄
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:35 AM
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Just a thought on something to look forward to.

This new Marky Mark movie titled "Lone Survivor" looks like it was custom tailored with JTR system owners in mind. smile.gif

As a VFW myself I can say this appears to be the most thought provoking emotional roller coaster ride since Saving Private Ryan only easier to relate to the past 25 years of modern war. These guys are True Heroes.

It should come out on Blu-Ray right about the time the 215t will be introduced.

For me this is the one I have been waiting on to put my system to the test.

With this movie and Metallica's " Through the Never " 2014 is starting off with a bang for the JTR Crew. biggrin.gif

Chris

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

So I went to bed at midnight last night and woke up at 5am unable to shake this subwoofer placement nightmare I was having. Well, what would a normal person do? Go back to bed? Nah! I got up, went to the living room and got to work.

So I ended up flipping my os upside down so the mouth is now on top instead of the bottom. I then moved it directly behind the couch so that the mouth is now firing above the middle seating position. Initial impressions have me grinning but that could also be due to lack of sleep.

Well I'm going back to bed now fully expecting a scream of a wake up call after the wife has finished her cup of coffee and fully wakes up 😄

JTR forum members...saving the world one sub placement at a time smile.gif Your not crazy, you are acting exactly as expected when you took the JTR forum pledge. Well done sir!!!!!
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:50 AM
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Yesterday, the JTR thread moved into 8th place in the AVS Speaker forum for total posts!


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Old 01-10-2014, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

To Archaea, Jbrown, or anyone else with sub knowledge:

What do you guys know about JL Audio subs for home theater use?

I just realized JL has been making home theater subs for several years now. Back in the car audio era, JL made some of the most kick-ass subs available. I wonder if they have made a good transition to home theater?

How would a nice JL Audio sub compare to a JTR sub, or a Seaton Submerisve I wonder?

I can tell you this much first hand...I brought two 4cubic ft sealed Dayton HO18s to my friends' "high end" shop here locally and did as close to an a/b as we could...in the end a/b wasn't necessary. The Datyons were run with 1250 watts each from a cv5k and not eq'd and the JLs were a pair of Fathom F113s that were on perminant demo in that room...... My friend kindly asked me to get my subs the hell out of there before any customers came in and realized it was $9k worth of JL subs vs $1200 diy subs. The point is that the subm or s2 should handily outperform the Daytons, so they would also, imo tounce the JLs
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Oh I didn't mean adding another os to the mix to get the last 5hz. I meant getting two "smaller" sealed 18's to join the mix. I honestly don't want to get rid of my os as I really do love the way this thing sounds/feels so I'm trying to work with it.

Well, I think adding subs would always be a good thing (for listening position freq response), I don't think 2 of any sub, even my LMS 5400s would keep up with an Orbit Shifter. As I said in my previous post, there aren't any production subs that I know of that have the output of a single OS above 20Hz.

Since this is the AVS forum, I'll try to use some numbers but since the OS hasn't been tested by Ricci on data-bass.com, I'll use the similar DIY Gallahorn for approximation.

A Gallahorn at 20Hz is 122 db.
A LMS 5400 at 10 Hz is 94.7 db so let's say 95 db.
That is a difference of 27 db, which if we use the general accepted thought of each sub with an amp will give us 6 DB, we would need 4-5 LMS 5400s to get the 10 Hz level up to a single OSs 20 Hz level.

So if you are only going to get 2 subs then you'd need to do something like a JTR S2 or a pair of DIY LMS 5400s or UXL18s and it will give you solid 10 Hz capability but you'd need 4 if you were truly trying to keep up with the OS.

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Old 01-10-2014, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Well, I think adding subs would always be a good thing (for listening position few response) I don't think 2 of any sub, even my LMS 5400s would keep up with an Orbit Shifter. As I said in my previous post, there aren't any production subs that I know of that have the output of a single OS above 20Hz.

Since his is the AVS forum, I'll try to use some numbers but since the OS hasn't been tested by Ricci on data-bass.com, I'll use the similar DIY Gallahorn for approximation.

A Gallahorn at 20Hz is 122 db.
A LMS 5400 at 10 Hz is 94.7 so let's say 95 Hz.
That is a difference of 27 Hz, which if we use the general accepted thought of each sub with an amp will give us 6 DB, we would need 4-5 LMS 5400s to get the 10 Hz level up to a single OSs 20 Hz level.

So if you are only going to get 2 subs then you'd need to do something like a JTR S2 or a pair of DIYLMS. 5400s or UXL18s and it will give you solid 10 Hz capability but you'd need 4 if you were truly trying to keep up with the OS.

I could be wrong but honestly I think at some point in this thread I recall reading some guys asking if it would be better to get a Cap S2 and OS instead of dual S2's or OS's because they thought the S2 could pick up the really ULF. But it wasn't really recommended, at least that's what I seem to recall.
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:18 AM
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Yesterday, the JTR thread moved into 8th place in the AVS Speaker forum for total posts!


And it is the youngest thread out of the bunch too!

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Old 01-10-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Oh I didn't mean adding another os to the mix to get the last 5hz. I meant getting two "smaller" sealed 18's to join the mix. I honestly don't want to get rid of my os as I really do love the way this thing sounds/feels so I'm trying to work with it.

I've toyed with adding two DIY sealed 18's for further improved response over my dual submersives.
Quote:
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I could be wrong but honestly I think at some point in this thread I recall reading some guys asking if it would be better to get a Cap S2 and OS instead of dual S2's or OS's because they thought the S2 could pick up the really ULF. But it wasn't really recommended, at least that's what I seem to recall.

Well if you plugged both in to sub out one and two and ran Audyssey it will pull down the extension of your sealed sub. But I have thought through this process of ported sub and sealed each into a mini dsp Channel, measure the combined response, make a few PEQ alterations to flatten it out manually, and add your low shelf. Then run Audyssey. All Audyssey would see is the combined response and wouldn't know if one was ported and sealed. The problem LTD02 mentioned to me before is at the port tune you can get reverse polarity happening and cancellations could happen, and happen more with the reflections factored in. It's over my head but I posted the comment recently he made...
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:32 AM
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IIRC - as far as output.

Orbit Shifter = 1 S1 below 20hz
Orbit Shifter = 2 ported Captivators at around 20hz
Orbit Shifter = 4 S1 above 20hz


dgage - in your post you mean dB instead of HZ.

Also - Orbit Shifter and Gjallarhorns are really quite different designs. The GJallarhorn is several times more more powerful than the orbit shifter at 15hz, how many times more powerful is not necessarily known without testing, but the Orbit Shifter is tuned to low 20hz and the gjallarhorn is tuned to about 15hz. Below tune the Orbit shifter design acts like a single sealed 18". Below tune the Gjallarhorn cabinet completely unloads and becomes unsafe for the driver quickly. At frequencies say 60hz and above the orbit shifter will have a significantly flatter (more desirable) frequency reponse than the gjallarhorn. The gjallarhorn should really be used from 15hz to 60hz because of the design. You get modal ringing points above 60hz on the gjallarhorn. The Orbit Shifter is a full frequency capable subwoofer option.


Lukeamdman, or Ricci can elaborate further if they care to.

Two sealed LMS-5400 would only beat the Orbit Shifter below 20hz. It would take four LMS-5400 in sealed cabinets to beat a single Orbit Shifter across the board.

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Old 01-10-2014, 10:41 AM
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Thanks for the great feedback! I didn't know the S8 had such a wide dispersion.

I hear ya about sound treatments... I am planning on doing that soon (as soon as the construction is fully finished and I get some furniture) before investing any more money. The only reason I'm experimenting now is because I've brought down the speakers form the upstairs game room so I can try different configs.

It's an L shape room, so the back is open to a huge space, which from what I understand is bad for creating pressure for the subs. So, I want to somehow close it off either with thick drapes or an accordion wall. Any thoughts on that approach?

OK with this diagram imagine the seating position is my only on of seats... And it's against the rear wall. Now I have bipols on rear wall. If I go to slant 8s rear wall is probably no ideal... The distances in this are same as mine. So would s8s be better off on side walls.... I can post pics of my room if that helps

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
112" fixed screen
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:45 AM
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Where is the diagram

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
112" fixed screen
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:50 AM
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Sound I mount them above each door which is only option to mount to the side. Being up high I figure slant 8s would be best option. Thoughts?

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
112" fixed screen
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

To Archaea, Jbrown, or anyone else with sub knowledge:

What do you guys know about JL Audio subs for home theater use?

I just realized JL has been making home theater subs for several years now. Back in the car audio era, JL made some of the most kick-ass subs available. I wonder if they have made a good transition to home theater?

How would a nice JL Audio sub compare to a JTR sub, or a Seaton Submerisve I wonder?

I owned a pair of F112's before the Captivators( passive ,2011).
The Caps have same SQ , to my ears at least, and are all over the JL' s in output and dynamics.
First pair of subs in my system that scare me.eek.gif

That and I received lousy service from JL , so I sold the F112's broken with considerable loss.
Form factor is great though. For size they do have considerable output.
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

dgage - in your post you mean dB instead of HZ..

Thanks. Fixed.

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Old 01-10-2014, 11:51 AM
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So Archea, what is your recommendation for DotJun to bring up his 10Hz response in his room with a single OS? Looking forward to your recommendation simply for my knowledge. Thanks.

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:05 PM
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I've heard all the subs in JL's lineup (my brother in law sold them) and can't say I've ever been all that impressed with their performance. The gotham is a beautiful and performs pretty well but is so overpriced its insane. The dealer markup was over 75% on that pig. JL drivers are good as far as the big box drivers go but compared to others you can purchase online and high quality DIY drivers, they leave a lot to be desired.
When I was in SPL and SQ comps with my car, guys would strut in with their JL stuff and think they were gonna walk all over everyone.... it always ended up with them eating some humble pie... ahh those were fun times.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:31 PM
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IIRC - as far as output.

Orbit Shifter = 1 S1 below 20hz
Orbit Shifter = 2 ported Captivators at around 20hz
Orbit Shifter = 4 S1 above 20hz


dgage - in your post you mean dB instead of HZ.

Also - Orbit Shifter and Gjallarhorns are really quite different designs. The GJallarhorn is several times more more powerful than the orbit shifter at 15hz, how many times more powerful is not necessarily known without testing, but the Orbit Shifter is tuned to low 20hz and the gjallarhorn is tuned to about 15hz. Below tune the Orbit shifter design acts like a single sealed 18". Below tune the Gjallarhorn cabinet completely unloads and becomes unsafe for the driver quickly. At frequencies say 60hz and above the orbit shifter will have a significantly flatter (more desirable) frequency reponse than the gjallarhorn. The gjallarhorn should really be used from 15hz to 60hz because of the design. You get modal ringing points above 60hz on the gjallarhorn. The Orbit Shifter is a full frequency capable subwoofer option.


Lukeamdman, or Ricci can elaborate further if they care to.

Two sealed LMS-5400 would only beat the Orbit Shifter below 20hz. It would take four LMS-5400 in sealed cabinets to beat a single Orbit Shifter across the board.

+1

And I'd also like to add that it's not really fair to compare the 20hz performance of one sub to the 10hz performance of another sub. smile.gif
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