Official JTR speaker thread - Page 496 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14851 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Has anyone heard the 212 vs the 212LP?

What differences would be expected? I know one is sealed, but with a 80hz cross over would there be a difference? The smaller size of the LP could possibly fit in my space, the regular 212 would not unless I went with an AT screen which I am not ready for at this time.

Jeff is a hard guy to get in touch with! I have sent several emails, a few phone calls and a few messages. What is the best way to get a hold of him?

I have 212HT-LPs and Coach has the 212HTs. We haven't put the two speakers side by side but I was able to go over and hear Coach's very nice system. In a double blind I doubt anyone could tell a difference between the two if properly setup. Meaning I think you could reach the same performance in a room with either speaker assuming the surrounding gear is up to similar standards. And of course with those speakers, based on reading, treatments would matter much more than which of those two speakers were in the room.

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post #14852 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I was able to get in touch with Jeff via the phone.

Based on what the KC guys said and talking to Jeff about the differences between the 228 and 212 I think I am going to go with the 228's as LCR's.

The price shipped to me with a 5% discount and offering the $1199 price still makes it about $500 less than I was thinking I would spend. I honestly didn't ever even expect to pay this much for LCR's - gotta hope the wife doesn't fine out.....

I think the 228's are going to be so much better than what I currently have that I will not miss the small differences noted on movies, especially if I go with a 100-120hz cross over like suggested several times here. If it ever comes time that I go with an AT screen, I could always move the 228's to the back and grab the 212's for the front. I never listen above -15 to -10 on currently so I probably wouldn't get the most out of the 212's. I probably don't listen that loud though because my current speakers don't sound very good past that.

I plan on calling and placing the order later today, man the month wait is going to kill me!!!

Thanks for everyone's help and sorry to be a pain with all of the questions.

Ray

I haven't heard the 228 but from everything I've read, the smile on your face after listening to your 228s will make you forget JTR even has a better speaker. It's like the Porsche 911 GT4 vs Porsche 911 Turbo (I've driven neither), there is a great price difference but not such a performance difference. Don't worry about it, just enjoy what you have, which will be awesome damn speakers to go with your awesome damn sub system!

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post #14853 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:18 PM
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Wait.....you guys x over your 228s at 100 to 120hz? And here I've been doing 60 and 80hz.

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post #14854 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:24 PM
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Order placed, now the painful wait frown.gif

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
3 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in Ported Boxes for LCR's
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #14855 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I just looked at the Triax.. they look pretty good...

Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 125.8dB
Low bass (40-63Hz): 136.9dB

Anyone knows what SPLs the Orbit Shifter gets for above 20hz?

Can the 3 15inch beat out the OS? I am thinking no, but who knows...??
The OS with it's 14 ft folded horn is "Another Animal" with few if any equals above 20hz. Multiple sealed subs may equal the SPL output but it would not have the Presence the OS commands.

The OS creates a Unique experience.

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post #14856 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

Wait.....you guys x over your 228s at 100 to 120hz? And here I've been doing 60 and 80hz.
IMO, 80 Hz is best practice.

I have been reading a paper once where some directivity down to 45 Hz was experienced, but not by all listeners.

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post #14857 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

Wait.....you guys x over your 228s at 100 to 120hz? And here I've been doing 60 and 80hz.
It is b/c he has 3 Triax's (sealed sub) with a total of 9 x 15" woofers that may sound better than the 6 x 8" woofers in three 228s or 6 x 12" woofers in three 212s below 100-120hz.

I have read where Double J(AE Speakers) and BeastAudio recommend a XO a full octave above the speakers limits.

It might not either but its a suggestion worth trying.smile.gif

I would like to see the FR both ways.
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post #14858 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The OS with it's 14 ft folded horn is "Another Animal" with few if any equals above 20hz. Multiple sealed subs may equal the SPL output but it would not have the Presence of the OS commands.
The OS creates a Unique experience.

Chris

I believe it...

I have a couple of sealed 15s from HSU and they each have a 1000 watts amp. I think it'll take 8 of those to equate the output of the OS...
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post #14859 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

Wait.....you guys x over your 228s at 100 to 120hz? And here I've been doing 60 and 80hz.

As stated already, 80HZ is the norm ...probably because THX stated that many years ago. I always used 80HZ until recently and bumped it up to 100HZ. I always felt (not sure why), that it wasn't "manly" to cross your sub that high but it works great. The question becomes what can cover the 80 to 100/120HZ better, your mains or your subs.
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post #14860 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

IMO, 80 Hz is best practice.

I have been reading a paper once where some directivity down to 45 Hz was experienced, but not by all listeners.

Yeah, I tried crossing at 100, 120, even 50 and 60, but still preferred 80hz in the end... I don't think 'true subs' do above 100hz well...

I believe a dedicated 18 inch mid bass unit might bridge the gap between 80-150hz...
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post #14861 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Yeah, I tried crossing at 100, 120, even 50 and 60, but still preferred 80hz in the end... I don't think 'true subs' do above 100hz well...

I believe a dedicated 18 inch mid bass unit might bridge the gap between 80-150hz...
This Is an advantage of a sealed sub. I would imagine Dgage's sealed LMS 5400s kick ass up to 120hz.smile.gif The OS will start to localize or reveal its location above 80hz as do most ported designs.

There is no one XO best for all situations. 80hz XO is a great place to start.

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post #14862 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

IMO, 80 Hz is best practice.

I have been reading a paper once where some directivity down to 45 Hz was experienced, but not by all listeners.

I agree, I think general practice is to cross over at around 80 Hz. However, some, including myself cross their SUBS at 100 or 120 Hz so there is overlap.

Of course, realize that phase issues could cause issues with overlapping frequencies so I'd recommend reviewing your system with some frequency analysis to ensure the overlapping frequencies aren't canceling themselves out. Then again, even if you crossed over subs and speakers at 80Hz, there could still be phase issues.
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post #14863 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I was able to get in touch with Jeff via the phone.

Based on what the KC guys said and talking to Jeff about the differences between the 228 and 212 I think I am going to go with the 228's as LCR's.

The price shipped to me with a 5% discount and offering the $1199 price still makes it about $500 less than I was thinking I would spend. I honestly didn't ever even expect to pay this much for LCR's - gotta hope the wife doesn't fine out.....

I think the 228's are going to be so much better than what I currently have that I will not miss the small differences noted on movies, especially if I go with a 100-120hz cross over like suggested several times here. If it ever comes time that I go with an AT screen, I could always move the 228's to the back and grab the 212's for the front. I never listen above -15 to -10 on currently so I probably wouldn't get the most out of the 212's. I probably don't listen that loud though because my current speakers don't sound very good past that.

I plan on calling and placing the order later today, man the month wait is going to kill me!!!

Thanks for everyone's help and sorry to be a pain with all of the questions.

Ray

I just came back from listening to the 228 for a couple of hours today. I demo'd both movies and music.

I can tell you without a doubt, the 228 perform very well for both movies and music. At -20 to -15 comfortable volume, the music is extremely clear and anything louder is a walk in the park. I honestly don't think you will notice anything missing unless you do an a/b test side by side. With the right subs, these will perform effortlessly for majority of users and still have a lot of headroom left over. You may have to try different placement angles and height to maximize the LP performance.

With that being said, only an audition will determine if you like the kind of sound they produce...this subjective test is the only thing missing. I'm pretty sure you'll be thrilled with your choice even then.

Lastly, make sure you feed them the best audio sources..they won't hesitate to crap out any crap that goes in.

I was in the same boat for a while and never got a chance to audition before ordering, so I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other specific questions I can answer while it's all fresh in my mind.

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current gear: lcr JTR 212HT ~ quad JTR 8LP ~ dual JTR Orbit Shifters LFU ~ Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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post #14864 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 02:42 PM
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Don't be surprised if you find yourself listening louder at times. With these speakers, the louder they play the better they sound. But if you have more self control that many here, you will be very happy at your -10 to -15. Thats about where most of us are for day to day. smile.gif

I can attest to that. The volume starts creeping up as the movie goes on. What seems loud at the beginning seems too low 5 minutes later. And my wife doesn't complain as I keep jacking up the volume. smile.gif we just get more immersed into the movie. I honestly can't believe how great everything sounds now.
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post #14865 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 02:43 PM
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Hey Gunner, any news on your amp??

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #14866 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 02:44 PM
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Hey Gunner, any news on your amp??

I'm being told it's shipped and should be here by Friday but I don't have a tracking number yet.
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post #14867 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:05 PM
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He did I think, I've sent a bunch of messages, phone, email and facebook and he did reply to me on facebook last week to tell me he's gonna reply to my email lol. I've tried calling 6 or 7 times last week and never got an answer any of them (only left 2 voice mails though)... I'm tying to have my broken Noesis's grill sent out with my center that was broken in shipping... I'm to the point where I'll just not say anything and hopefully someone will bring it up at Gorilla83's meet on Saturday... hint hint!! hahaha

Well, Jeff isn't the best at responding to inquiries hence his hiring a person to work the phones/email. I think he forgot to give her a phone and computer so she really hasn't been of much help with the communications ... maybe she is doing final assembly tongue.gif.

But seriously Nate, you order a custom cabinet and crossover knowing the guy can't say no during his busiest time of the year and then talk smack when he doesn't respond to your calls... really ? Hell, he probably doesn't want to take your calls for fear you'll want some other one-off hybrid something or other.

Oh and while I'm at it, why don't you cut back to say 5 or 6 mega subs and get yourself an AT screen? Then you wouldn't need custom horizontal centers or grills. tongue.gifwink.gif

J/K Nate, you know I love you man ... smile.gif

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post #14868 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:24 PM
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Given that now I only respect people who own JTR speakers smile.gif I wanted to ask an off topic question: I only watch blu ray movies and HD Sports and listen to music off my ipad, is it worth getting an oppo blu ray player?
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post #14869 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:28 PM
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Given that now I only respect people who own JTR speakers smile.gif I wanted to ask an off topic question: I only watch blu ray movies and HD Sports and listen to music off my ipad, is it worth getting an oppo blu ray player?
Yes it is but the 103 is plenty. I have the 95 and spent $200 on rca cables from Blue Jean. I have never used them so the 93 would have done just as well at half the price.
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post #14870 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Well, Jeff isn't the best at responding to inquiries hence his hiring a person to work the phones/email. I think he forgot to give her a phone and computer so she really hasn't been of much help with the communications ... maybe she is doing final assembly tongue.gif.

But seriously Nate, you order a custom cabinet and crossover knowing the guy can't say no during his busiest time of the year and then talk smack when he doesn't respond to your calls... really ? Hell, he probably doesn't want to take your calls for fear you'll want some other one-off hybrid something or other.

Oh and while I'm at it, why don't you cut back to say 5 or 6 mega subs and get yourself an AT screen? Then you wouldn't need custom horizontal centers or grills. tongue.gifwink.gif

J/K Nate, you know I love you man ... smile.gif


Yeah but I remember last summer or something like that Nate waited 3 months or so past the expected shipping date to say anything to Jeff - so I'd say he's pretty patient. smile.gif

IMO the slow response time is the only chink in the JTR armor... but so worth it for what you get for your money.


Rob's right though Nate, it's time for AT.... oh wait.... I was thinking of myself. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #14871 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:32 PM
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Yes it is but the 103 is plenty. I have the 95 and spent $200 on rca cables from Blue Jean. I have never used them so the 93 would have done just as well at half the price.
Chris

Thanks. So the picture and sound quality will be much better than a $100 sony blu ray player? What about the 103d with the Darby thingy in it?
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post #14872 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:32 PM
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Yeah but I remember last summer or something like that Nate waited 3 months or so past the expected shipping date to say anything to Jeff - so I'd say he's pretty patient. smile.gif

IMO the slow response time is the only chink in the JTR armor... but so worth it for what you get for your money.


Rob's right though Nate, it's time for AT.... oh wait.... I was thinking of myself. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
A custom speaker requires a custom XO. Jeff spends a long time on this. when I ordered my 2012 T12s at the end of 2011 it took him an extra 3 weeks just to tweak the XO from the 2011 model. Same exact speaker just an update tweak.

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post #14873 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:34 PM
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Given that now I only respect people who own JTR speakers smile.gif I wanted to ask an off topic question: I only watch blu ray movies and HD Sports and listen to music off my ipad, is it worth getting an oppo blu ray player?

Big fan of Oppo. Great picture, great build quality, great design,etc... Mine has been rock solid. They also have a high resale value if you ever want to switch down the road.
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post #14874 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:36 PM
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A custom speaker requires a custom XO. Jeff spends a long time on this. when I ordered my 2012 T12s at the end of 2011 it took him an extra 3 weeks just to tweak the XO from the 2011 model. Same exact speaker just an update tweak.


Another great example Chris of what you get for your money. Nice. smile.gif
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post #14875 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:38 PM
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Thanks. So the picture and sound quality will be much better than a $100 sony blu ray player? What about the 103d with the Darby thingy in it?
I had a Pioneer bdp 43 fd elite ($499) that I replaced and it was a noticeable upgrade on picture and audio quality. It plays CDs on a different level then any other Blu-ray I have had.

I consider myself "a picky MF" when it comes to watching Blu-Rays and listening to CDs. The OPPO is the best I have come across.

Chris
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post #14876 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 03:58 PM
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Another great example Chris of what you get for your money. Nice. smile.gif
One of the funnier more memorable moments on this thread was when Nate first decided to go with the 2010 T12 only to have Jeff completely change the CD an XO a month after his purchase. I can remember thinking man I bet he is pissed. Nate took it in stride and shelled out $300 each for the updates.

It may still sting a little but Hopefully enough time has passed for Nate to find humor in this too. smile.gif

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post #14877 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 04:04 PM
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Switched from a ps3 to a oppo 103 darbee. The difference is night and day in both audio and visual. Does not disappoint.......at all.

The loading times alone make it worth it.

Maximum Un-Intelligence.
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post #14878 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 04:38 PM
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Just ordered a 103d. Thanks for all of the help in spending my money.
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post #14879 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 04:41 PM
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Just ordered a 103d. Thanks for all of the help in spending my money.

I have had the 83 for four years now... Never had a problem with it or any issues watching a movie on it.

The only thing is, the 103 would look much cooler in my rack than the 83......wink.gifwink.gifrolleyes.gif
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post #14880 of 30781 Old 01-14-2014, 04:44 PM
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well, I'd hardly say I'm talking smack by any means but if anyone feels that way, then it is what it is lol
It has nothing to do with the timeline of the speaker, I know it takes time for the custom xover, I've got no problem with waiting, what I DO dislike is never getting a response to ANY form of communication other than getting lucky and having someone answer the phone.
Hell, my last Slant 8's took almost 4 months to get because of mistake, Jeff thought they had shipped out and had them marked as shipped when they weren't. I took it in stride, no big deal, I was supposed to get them in 2-3 weeks, I just laughed as it's kind funny lol I've never once been rude for any reason, I've taken my lumps because in reality, it's just not that important IRL.

I just want my broken grill that was broken in shipping, shipped out with the center, thats why I'm trying to get a hold of him, otherwise when I sell them, it's gonna be another PITA for the new owner and me to deal with. I had talked to him mid december, he had said it should be done before xmas, it's not, I'll live, It's not the end of the world.
I know we all try to justify not being able to get answers to our questions, some have good luck, others don't because of him being a small business.

If he's avoiding me because I've sent a few emails asking a few questions ( I'm always very polite, I'm never rude at all ) then I guess I'd have to re-think my HT.....

Although Rob, I know you love JTR as much as any of us, if this was any other business and you were putting up the kind of money we are up front, they would be out of business in a few months. I'd say Jeff has one amazing customer basis, everyone is pretty damn understanding.
Frohlich, Archaea and countryWV like this.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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