Official JTR speaker thread - Page 502 - AVS Forum
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post #15031 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I think the Captivator ported subs are neck and neck or best the very best of anything I've ever heard of any alignment or cost. I'm not a big believer that less than say 15hz even matters. I've heard nothing yet to sway me. Popalock's room demo with sixteen 18" subs this Friday night will decide if I can honestly continue to say that. If you can't impress me with ULF subsonic frequencies with sixteen 18" subs in a 1500 cubic foot room - then I don't care anything about ULF below about 15hz. We shall see.

So what are your thoughts?

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post #15032 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Cool build... While checking out the crossover, something just popped into my mind. See the white cables connecting the crossover parts? They are tiny...

So, my question then is, why would a bigger gauge speaker cable matter at all, when at the end of the road, they actually have to go thru tiny cables within the crossover??? It's like having a 6 inch water pipe that then connects to a 1 inch pipe... the water isn't going to flow any faster than a 1 inch pipe can allow...

So, putting 2 and 2 together, wouldn't this prove that 'big, monster' cables are all frauds????

Or, could i possibly be missing something?
It is not exactly the same as pipes. Part of the equation for resistance is distance. Having a thin wire for a short run is not a problem, but if you have a 25 foot speaker cable, you want something a little bigger. So when you take into account the distance the 3" thin wire may offer less resistance than the 25 foot thick wire. Beyond having adequate gauge, there is no need for fancy cables.
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post #15033 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Cool build... While checking out the crossover, something just popped into my mind. See the white cables connecting the crossover parts? They are tiny...

So, my question then is, why would a bigger gauge speaker cable matter at all, when at the end of the road, they actually have to go thru tiny cables within the crossover??? It's like having a 6 inch water pipe that then connects to a 1 inch pipe... the water isn't going to flow any faster than a 1 inch pipe can allow...

So, putting 2 and 2 together, wouldn't this prove that 'big, monster' cables are all frauds????

Or, could i possibly be missing something?
Big cables are for distance. The longer the run the bigger the cable (12gauge) is needed.

I think that is what your asking.

Chris
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post #15034 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

It is not exactly the same as pipes. Part of the equation for resistance is distance. Having a thin wire for a short run is not a problem, but if you have a 25 foot speaker cable, you want something a little bigger. So when you take into account the distance the 3" thin wire may offer less resistance than the 25 foot thick wire. Beyond having adequate gauge, there is no need for fancy cables.

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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


Big cables are for distance. The longer the run the bigger the cable (12gauge) is needed.

I think that is what your asking.

Chris

Ah, ok, so, beyond a 12 gauge or a 16 gauge (depending on distance), you don't really need anything bigger... also, would bigger gauge cables within the crossovers matter? even in those short distances? Those seem really, really tiny to me.. I can't imagine, for instance 500 watts of power going thru them.. . or, 2000 watts, for instance the 212s can take...
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post #15035 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:02 PM
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CoolGeek that picture you posted, The white lines are like an etch a sketch they are not cables just a diagram to show where each part is connected. They are connected (soldered) on the back side which is not shown. With speaker wire I use 12g or 10g for everything.
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post #15036 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

CoolGeek that picture you posted, The white lines are like an etch a sketch they are not cables just a diagram to show where each part is connected. They are connected (soldered) on the back side which is not shown.

Ah, ok, everything starts to make sense now... heehehe... sorry for the mix-up...
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post #15037 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Care to go into a little more detail on how they sounded? was there anything there to compare them with?

The Beymas had very good clarity without any shrills at reference (+/- 2). Vocals, details...all there. No brightness from what I can recall. I've heard S8 as surrounds only for now, but I guesstimate the performance would be neck and neck based on the similar design and quality drivers used respectively. Excellent value if anyone wants to build a few. For surround duty, the Beyma would rock and keep up with any heavy weight LCR. Just as a 5.1 with all S8, one could have a great setup with the Beymas and still meet a lower budget (I love timbre matching whenever possible). Invest the rest on two 2400s or Orbit Shifters.

We were switching between these and Klipsch, Cheap Thrills, and Danley.

I would drop money on the Danley and Beyma if I had to choose.

Cheap thrills was 'meh' for me, but not as bad as say something like the new Theater 10 from Chase/Chane. If one is in this budget range, then I would definitely go with something from the DIY sound group. It would be worth the trouble of DIY even if you don't want to DIY. Fortunately, they have stuff that sounds better than the now extinct Cheap Thrills...like Fusion 10.

On a side note, the Danleys got me emotional wink.gif I can't wait to compare to the 212 one day.

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post #15038 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Chris, while I agree with you for the most part there's no reason to believe the Beyma surrounds wouldn't sound great too. Beast is having MTG90 make some custom crossovers for his surrounds after the latest GTG.

If I can get 95% of the performance of Slant 8's for less then half the price which are only going to be used as surrounds, I'm sold 100% on them.

Personally, I like the long term resale value the S8 would hold over any DIY in case someone had to ever sell their JTR stuff, but you would definitely get your 95% with the Beyma.

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for sale/trade: BNIB LG OLED Curved TV 55EA9800 ~Best Black Levels Ever~
ht: LCR JTR 212HT~Surr. Four JTR 8LP~Hi/Wi Four Elemental Designs Cinema 6 eD6c~Subs Two JTR Orbit Shifter LFU~AV Marantz SR7008
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post #15039 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

How do they compare with the s8?

For surrounds, very comparable and would go well with 228/212 LCR more than likely. Need to do a side by side to thoroughly test, but very impressive overall.

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post #15040 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Canada View Post

I'm looking for input on my HT. I'm rebuilding it and I've had Paradigm Studio 80's (V2) for mains and a CC for the center channel.

I really like the sound but I'm wondering if the dispersion on these are too wide for HT and should I be looking at something like the JTR Noesis 228 for LCR?

Has anyone here heard both or switched from one or the other?

I was able to have Studio 100v5's and matching CC-690 in my theater room for a week for demo, and I'm sorry but I'll take my 228HT's any day of the week over the Studio series. At higher volumes those things made me what to jab ice picks in my eyes to stop the pain....lol
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post #15041 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tyee View Post

I'm watching the northeast GTG very closly right now. I've been tempted to go for the 228's, but I need time to decide. My HT room is 13x10. Are the 228's too big for that room or can I make them work? Tempted by the SEOS too. I am making a trip up island at the end of the month to visit tuxedocivic and learn some things about these types of speakers.

With your 13x10 room, 5 of the 8HT would be great. Would go with 3 of the 228 for LCR if you want even more SPL/dynamic sound. Others could provide more justifications for the 228, but it all depends on how loud and big of a sound you want or need. And the all important budget.
/asim

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post #15042 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:28 PM
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thats what sucks about DIY, although it's cheap, it has very little re-sale value, though people doing DIY don't tend to sell much. I build subs for my own enjoyment, you're lucky to get the price for the driver, let alone the wood or time invested.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #15043 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:42 PM
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Are the posted prices for JTR's including shipping or is that a big extra?

Equipment: Denon AVR-4520, Fusion Tempest (LCR), Fusion Alchemy (4xSurrounds+Wides+Heights),15" Dayton Ultimax X 4, SMX 2.35:1 Screen
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post #15044 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Canada View Post

Are the posted prices for JTR's including shipping or is that a big extra?

Extra but pretty reasonable.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #15045 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

As to sound quality preference - that's all up to you. I think the Captivator ported subs are neck and neck or best the very best of anything I've ever heard of any alignment or cost. I'm not a big believer that less than say 15hz even matters. I've heard nothing yet to sway me. Popalock's room demo with sixteen 18" subs this Friday night will decide if I can honestly continue to say that. If you can't impress me with ULF subsonic frequencies with sixteen 18" subs in a 1500 cubic foot room - then I don't care anything about ULF below about 15hz. We shall see.
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

So what are your thoughts?

I'm going to comment on this only because Archaea and talked about this as he had Austin set his subs to only play anything below 15hz and/or 20hz for one of the demo scenes. Jonathan can correct me if I'm wrong.

With limiting to only 15hz/20hz or below, there were three or four pulses of a little air movement during the Flight of the Phoenix demo scene. Nothing tactical or visceral. This 'kind of' cemented for me that chasing anything below 20hz is not worth it from an entertainment standpoint nor in respect to laws of diminishing returns. As a novelty, sure. Everything that mattered, heard, and that impressed me so much about Austin's 16 sub setup has always been above 20hz (you can read my review in his build thread, but basically, it's ridiculously awesome).

I'm definitely open to be proven otherwise. Until then, high quality 20Hz+ performance is where its at....IMHO cool.gif

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post #15046 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:56 PM
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I thought Dennis Erskine had posted before that the floor on Movie soundtracks was 22 or 23 hz. That would support your point I would think.

Equipment: Denon AVR-4520, Fusion Tempest (LCR), Fusion Alchemy (4xSurrounds+Wides+Heights),15" Dayton Ultimax X 4, SMX 2.35:1 Screen
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post #15047 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Cheap thrills was 'meh' for me, but not as bad as say something like the new Theater 10 from Chase/Chane. If one is in this budget range, then I would definitely go with something from the DIY sound group. It would be worth the trouble of DIY even if you don't want to DIY. Fortunately, they have stuff that sounds better than the now extinct Cheap Thrills...like Fusion 10.

So you have heard the Chase Theater 10's and think the cheap thrills 8 sound better? I am looking for something fairly cheap <$300 for surrounds for my upcoming JTR 228 LCR? Were they blown away by the other 2 speakers?

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
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post #15048 of 24711 Old 01-18-2014, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

So you have heard the Chase Theater 10's and think the cheap thrills 8 sound better? I am looking for something fairly cheap <$300 for surrounds for my upcoming JTR 228 LCR? Were they blown away by the other 2 speakers?

Based on what I remember, I think the DIY sound group have a sound signature that just sounds better overall than the Theater 10. As a budget turnkey, Theater 10 are fine, but they are a step down from the previous SHO-10 IMO. However, even the SEO will likely have a better resale value than the Theater 10 based on other variables, including brand value.

If you want surrounds for the 228 LCR, you could push your budget to get the Beyma diy, jbl 8350, or something like the eD 6 cinema that I have in the classifieds wink.gif

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post #15049 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 12:24 AM
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When I get my LCR 228's in a few weeks, I am going to try out my existing surrounds for the time being. My current surrounds are Emptek E55wi's with a sensitivity if 87 dbs. With the 228's being so efficient, I am wondering if Audyssey can calibrate these with the +/- 12db window it has? If not, I will be scrambling to find something to replace them. Something from DIY sound group would be at the top of the list.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #15050 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

thats what sucks about DIY, although it's cheap, it has very little re-sale value, though people doing DIY don't tend to sell much. I build subs for my own enjoyment, you're lucky to get the price for the driver, let alone the wood or time invested.
tbat being said. There a no way in the real world a slant 8 costs even half of the price being charged...... come on.... use logic.... one woofer and a CD in a 30$ box.... no way is it worth 1000.....only rich people that don't care about money buy this ****......

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
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post #15051 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 12:49 AM
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Truth

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
112" fixed screen
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post #15052 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 12:49 AM
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If ya think it's not then you may need a dr

Processing- Sherbourn 7020C4
Amps- Sherbourn PA7-350, two Behringer EP4000s
Speakers- JTR Triple 12s for mains, triple 8 center, Volt 8 surrounds
Subs- 4 mach 5 audio IXL 18s
PJ- Panasonic pt-ae4000
112" fixed screen
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post #15053 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

tbat being said. There a no way in the real world a slant 8 costs even half of the price being charged...... come on.... use logic.... one woofer and a CD in a 30$ box.... no way is it worth 1000.....only rich people that don't care about money buy this ****......

It is a little shocking when you consider a 228HT is only $300 more then a S8. Considering the extra cost of parts for the 228HT, larger cabinet which would require more wood and labour to assemble. Just being honest but if I had to guess a price on a S8 if I didn't already know what it was and was asking to compare the price to a 228HT I would guess that they would be priced around $699 at most per speaker.

And it's really not that hard to find the pricing for the drivers used in the S8's.
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post #15054 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 04:29 AM
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I have two 2009 JTR slant 8's for sale if anyone is interested. $625 shipped. They were $600 each plus shipping new.
Excellent shape and work perfectly. Pics on request.
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post #15055 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

It is a little shocking when you consider a 228HT is only $300 more then a S8. Considering the extra cost of parts for the 228HT, larger cabinet which would require more wood and labour to assemble. Just being honest but if I had to guess a price on a S8 if I didn't already know what it was and was asking to compare the price to a 228HT I would guess that they would be priced around $699 at most per speaker.

And it's really not that hard to find the pricing for the drivers used in the S8's.

The S8s are pretty good. Dynamics wise, better than my Wharfedale towers, even.. (but i still prefer the sound of the towers). However, compared to the 212s, it's night and day difference. That's not to say the S8s are lacking.. it's only because the 212s are so damn good... and hearing from the reviews the 228s almost matches the 212s in terms of movies, (but not music).. i regret not buying them instead of the S8s for surround duty.. i can imagine the 228s also being leaps and bounds ahead of the S8s... most likely because of the better CDs.. (in the 212s, that's the case, the CD is just amazing hi-fi quality). Other than the 212s, i have yet to hear another Compression Driver / Horn speaker that sounds good enough for me for music. They are all excellent for movies. Even relatively cheap Horn Speakers can sound really good for movies because of their dynamics... my brother bough a pair of very cheap (he paid $100 USD for the pair) speakers that comes with 2x10inch drivers... of course these were on sale... their original price were about $350/each.. they sound great for movies... you can't complain.

So, back to the price difference of only $300.. i keep thinking why in the hell did i get the S8s and not the 228s... but then at the same time, i am very happy with the S8s..... they are amazing speakers in that small package... just too expensive, if you ask me... The only way i would ever choose the S8s vs the 228s as surround is if my theater room is too small to accommodate the 228s...
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post #15056 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

tbat being said. There a no way in the real world a slant 8 costs even half of the price being charged...... come on.... use logic.... one woofer and a CD in a 30$ box.... no way is it worth 1000.....only rich people that don't care about money buy this ****......

Might want to keep in mind that there are a lot f people in this thread that own S8's....

(3) JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR)
(2) JTR Single 8 (wides)
(2) JTR Slanted 8 (sides)
(2) DIY Eminence 10" coax (rear Surrounds)
(2) JTR Orbit Shifters
(2) Mach5 UXL-18's sealed
(2) Soundsplinter 15's sealed
Speakers powered by 6 crown xls 1500's
UXL's powered by Peavey IPR-7500

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http://www.avs...
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post #15057 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 07:06 AM
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What do you guys think the minimum distance for 228's as surrounds would be? In other words. If they are put on stands and are behind the couch how much distance between speaker and couch would be needed (at a minimum). I am thinking about 228's for surround but don't think I would have more than 2 feet or so. Would this not allow enough space for the sound to "open up" ?
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post #15058 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selkec View Post

tbat being said. There a no way in the real world a slant 8 costs even half of the price being charged...... come on.... use logic.... one woofer and a CD in a 30$ box.... no way is it worth 1000.....only rich people that don't care about money buy this ****......
This is a BS comment from someone who does not understand in this case what he talking about. It is also insulting to anyone who has purchased The S8 series speaker so if that is the intent Good Job See a doctor huh?.rolleyes.gif

Take a look at of Klipsch -650 with an MSRP $1599.

The DIY crowd have a different value system then others who have to pay to have speakers built.

DIY or not a man should at least listen to a speaker before he makes such a bold comment about a speaker he has only read about.

If you don't think its a good value there are better ways to express YOUR OPINION then insulting those who completely disagree with your statement.

Chris
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post #15059 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 07:25 AM
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My advice guys is don't be baited in to a stupid comment like that. If this person sees no value in it than trust me we won't be the people to convince him. He is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to ignore it. Let's gets back to jtr talk. That's the reason I follow this thread. I am luck a crack junkie smile.gif
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post #15060 of 24711 Old 01-19-2014, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

It is a little shocking when you consider a 228HT is only $300 more then a S8. Considering the extra cost of parts for the 228HT, larger cabinet which would require more wood and labour to assemble. Just being honest but if I had to guess a price on a S8 if I didn't already know what it was and was asking to compare the price to a 228HT I would guess that they would be priced around $699 at most per speaker.

And it's really not that hard to find the pricing for the drivers used in the S8's.
JB
The 228 costs roughly $150-$200 more Tops. The 2 x 8" woofers are around $125 (or less) and about $50 more for the cabinet and XO parts. The horn on the 228 costs less than the fitted coaxial driver on the S8 so $300 more is not suprising at all. The fact that Jeff does not take advantage of this misunderstanding with a price increase on the 228 is what's surprising but since Jeff's pricing is always consistent it really isn't .

I have been looking for the pricing an this exact driver and cd combination with no luck. Please point me in the direction of where you found it.smile.gif

http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/2011-single-8ht-single-8htlp-and-slanted-8ht-4955475 This is what it looks like.
Chris
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