Official JTR speaker thread - Page 511 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15301 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The 10" and 15" woofers Jeff will be using in the FR speakers are a completely different design then the 8" and 12" woofers in the 228 and 212. In order for the above situation to work he would have to

have another 12" woofer designed along with a different cabinet and XO. It would be a completely different speaker that would not offer much over the 210t.

In order to dig deeper the cabinet would have to bigger so throwing 12" woofers in the same size cabinet as the 210t will not dig much lower at all. Surely not an f3 in the 20's. smile.gif
Chris

When I asked Jeff on the JTR forum board why he went with 10's over 12's his exact response was.....

"Jbrown, I started with the 210, trying to keep the tower narrow and then the 215 came up when trying to go lower. The 215 works out better than a few 12's and I like the look of the drivers coming almost to the edge of the cabinet."
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post #15302 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

When I asked Jeff on the JTR forum board why he went with 10's over 12's his exact response was.....

"Jbrown, I started with the 210, trying to keep the tower narrow and then the 215 came up when trying to go lower. The 215 works out better than a few 12's and I like the look of the drivers coming almost to the edge of the cabinet."
What that's saying is that a cabinet big enough to get an f3 in mid to low 20s would be so big that 12' woofers would not go all the way to the edge so if the cabinet has to be that big why not just use 15' woofers since they will fit and go all the way to the edge which looks Badass. smile.gif

I think the post I was responding to thought that simply trading the 10" woofers for 12s in the same 45" cabinet would net a f3 in the 20s. Those low frequencies are a combination of bigger drivers and cabinets.

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post #15303 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Archaea and I were talking about you with Mark Seaton last weekend. See how I just name dropped right there.... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

That was one of the topics, speaker location/bass. If I remember right you put your 212's right on top of the subs so it would be roughly the same location for the 215's as you had the OS's right? All should be fine? Now, maybe horns work differently than ported subs when it comes to location? I don't think so though...

Thanks Carp, I am still bummed that I couldn't make the GTG. I was really looking forward to meeting all of the guys and hearing some great speakers. Mark is such a good guy and wicked smart in all things audio so it is always a pleasure to talk sound with him.

You are correct about the Noesis sitting on top of the OS's and I'm hopeful that the 215T's will perform well in a similar location.

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post #15304 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

When I asked Jeff on the JTR forum board why he went with 10's over 12's his exact response was.....

"Jbrown, I started with the 210, trying to keep the tower narrow and then the 215 came up when trying to go lower. The 215 works out better than a few 12's and I like the look of the drivers coming almost to the edge of the cabinet."



Since my prior question results in a completely custom built speaker. Could the 215t be built into a smaller cabinet sacrificing the low end of 18 and raising it to the low-mid twenties?
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post #15305 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinkee View Post

Since my prior question results in a completely custom built speaker. Could the 215t be built into a smaller cabinet sacrificing the low end of 18 and raising it to the low-mid twenties?

At that point, I'd think you're getting pretty close to the 210t.
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post #15306 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Archaea and I were talking about you with Mark Seaton last weekend. See how I just name dropped right there.... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

That was one of the topics, speaker location/bass. If I remember right you put your 212's right on top of the subs so it would be roughly the same location for the 215's as you had the OS's right? All should be fine? Now, maybe horns work differently than ported subs when it comes to location? I don't think so though...

Bass is bass and our walls and room dimensions creating the measurable nulls and peaks distances in the room don't know if we have sealed, horn or ported subs. Symmetrical rectangular rooms are pretty easy to calculate where our nulls are at the given frequency but if I remember right RMK has a not exact rectangle from old pics. But He is surely familiar with his room smile.gif I rotated my setup 90 degrees in my living room to get symmetrical then my raw response improved dramatically.

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post #15307 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

They "should" have more midbass just based on displacement, well in my case they will 100%, since I have the LP 212's. I will have complete control over them with how I'm going to implement them. I have an extra OpenDRC that I will be running them through before the amp. No need for anything else, I can adjust on the fly if I want and save my 4 setting for how I want them implemented. Easy as pie and setup in about 2 minutes cool.gif

I have really enjoyed my OpenDRC and that was a buy I surely would do over. Being thats its inexpensive helps too:rolleyes:

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post #15308 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Omnimic looks jagged if on no smoothing and just single capture, just like REW, but when you average captures on omnimic, like most everyone does, the effect of smoothing occurs.
Average captures? Do you mean you are taking measurements in multiple LP's and then averaging these results? That would explain it then as I only take measurements from the MLP.

Doesn't this skew peoples perceptions on other peoples measurements though? I mean, if averaging results in a smoother response curve then someone looking to show off would just take multiple readings and average them right? I know it's not a competition or anything, but it does hurt people that don't know others are practicing this because these people that don't know are always left wondering why their graphs are so jagged compared to others.
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post #15309 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Omnimic looks jagged if on no smoothing and just single capture, just like REW, but when you average captures on omnimic, like most everyone does, the effect of smoothing occurs.
Average captures? Do you mean you are taking measurements in multiple LP's and then averaging these results? That would explain it then as I only take measurements from the MLP.

Doesn't this skew peoples perceptions on other peoples measurements though? I mean, if averaging results in a smoother response curve then someone looking to show off would just take multiple readings and average them right? I know it's not a competition or anything, but it does hurt people that don't know others are practicing this because these people that don't know are always left wondering why their graphs are so jagged compared to others.

No - the mic stays in one position. You just average x 'captures' of that postion to ensure the capture is accurate - so if the floor creaks, the cat meows, whatever - it's still overall accurate. The averaging effect is slight smoothing, nothing drastic.

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post #15310 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 07:15 PM
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Would appreciate a little knowledge on how I can best utilize this information:


Harman Axial Standing Waves Calculator

Room dimensions: 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

Height: 8 ft --- 71Hz 141Hz 212Hz 283Hz

Width: 15 ft --- 38Hz 75Hz 113Hz 151Hz

Length: 18 ft --- 31Hz 63Hz 94Hz 126Hz

Room volume = 2,160 Cubic feet

Would I be reading this correctly in that if my speakers have a +/- 3db of less than 60Hz and I crossover to subs at 60Hz or below, that I would only have to deal with (peak/nulls) at 31Hz and 38Hz?
If this is correct, can 31Hz and 38Hz be dealt with by sub placement alone?

-Thanks
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post #15311 of 31063 Old 01-25-2014, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

No - the mic stays in one position. You just average x 'captures' of that postion to ensure the capture is accurate - so if the floor creaks, the cat meows, whatever - it's still overall accurate. The averaging effect is slight smoothing, nothing drastic.
Oh ok, I thought you had meant it would go from like no smoothing to say 1/12 😄

When I make multiple captures without moving my mic I almost always have exact overlaid graphs so I don't think averaging will do anything to smooth mine out.

Edit* Wait a sec... Now I'm back to square one where omnimic measurements look so much smoother than rew measurements 😄 or maybe those with omnimic just have way better rooms/dsp/setup haha
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post #15312 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 08:52 AM
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Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the Quintuple? Specifically the vertical height it is if we sat it horizontally as a center? Seem same as Triple 8 HT...

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post #15313 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the Quintuple? Specifically the vertical height it is if we sat it horizontally as a center? Seem same as Triple 8 HT...
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3664787 smile.gif

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post #15314 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

thx RMK!

No problem ...

Observation:

Last night the wife was in the mood for some music and we watched most of the This Is It bluray. With only the Triple 8LP pair as L&R, a Slanted 8 center channel and no subs it sounded great. I'm running the T8's as full range and the S8 with a 80hz xover and the bass was pretty good. The interesting thing was it seems the vocal clarity (intelligibility) was a bit better without the Orbit Shifters.

Makes me wonder how well tamed the OS's actually were in my HT. redface.gif

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post #15315 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

No problem ...

Observation:

Last night the wife was in the mood for some music and we watched most of the This Is It bluray. With only the Triple 8LP pair as L&R, a Slanted 8 center channel and no subs it sounded great. I'm running the T8's as full range and the S8 with a 80hz xover and the bass was pretty good. The interesting thing was it seems the vocal clarity (intelligibility) was a bit better without the Orbit Shifters.

Makes me wonder how well tamed the OS's actually were in my HT. redface.gif
it is good to get used to the set up as is. Not only does it sound awesome I'm sure It will make the bass for the 215's all that more powerful after getting used to less bass.

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post #15316 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the Quintuple? Specifically the vertical height it is if we sat it horizontally as a center? Seem same as Triple 8 HT...

You have heard my Quintuples and they are most excellent for HT use.
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post #15317 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 02:51 PM
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I posted this in the 228 thread, but that doesn't get much activity.

When my 228's arrive next month, I need to decide what I am going to do with my center channel. I can build a stand about 16 inches high and place it horizontally just below the screen. My other option would be to stand it vertically below the screen, maybe slightly angled up but for the most part sitting on the ground. I may be able to raise it an inch or two.

I know a vertical center is preferred, would that still be true if it is so low to the ground?

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post #15318 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 06:12 PM
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I think horizontal with a 16" high stand and slightly angled upward would be good. It would keep the midranges on the same plane vs the vertically-angled version you mentioned.

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post #15319 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 06:21 PM
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I have a new Orbit Shifter that should be shipping hopefully tomorrow, has anyone tried any sound isolation/decoupling type devices with there Orbit shifters? I have a concrete foundation with a deluxe carpet pad and a low pile carpet and have been looking at possibly purchasing the Herbies Audio Lab Giant fat gliders to put underneath the OS to try out. Any feedback and thoughts in regards to anybody elses experience would be great thank you.
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post #15320 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post

I have a new Orbit Shifter that should be shipping hopefully tomorrow, has anyone tried any sound isolation/decoupling type devices with there Orbit shifters? I have a concrete foundation with a deluxe carpet pad and a low pile carpet and have been looking at possibly purchasing the Herbies Audio Lab Giant fat gliders to put underneath the OS to try out. Any feedback and thoughts in regards to anybody elses experience would be great thank you.

Start out with it on the carpet and then see if you need isolation. I had mine on a suspended wood floor on carpet and there was a whole lotta shakin goin on. On a cement slab I'm thinking, not so much. smile.gif

BTW, the reviews on the Herbies site made me laugh (not in a good way) tongue.gifwink.gif

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post #15321 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post

I have a new Orbit Shifter that should be shipping hopefully tomorrow, has anyone tried any sound isolation/decoupling type devices with there Orbit shifters? I have a concrete foundation with a deluxe carpet pad and a low pile carpet and have been looking at possibly purchasing the Herbies Audio Lab Giant fat gliders to put underneath the OS to try out. Any feedback and thoughts in regards to anybody elses experience would be great thank you.

I use these under mine, as does RMK(he recommended them to me)....well RMK used to tongue.gif
http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Non-Skid-Adhesive-Durometer/dp/B003IMODW8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1390793947&sr=8-3&keywords=sorbothane+feet

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post

I have a new Orbit Shifter that should be shipping hopefully tomorrow, has anyone tried any sound isolation/decoupling type devices with there Orbit shifters? I have a concrete foundation with a deluxe carpet pad and a low pile carpet and have been looking at possibly purchasing the Herbies Audio Lab Giant fat gliders to put underneath the OS to try out. Any feedback and thoughts in regards to anybody elses experience would be great thank you.

i have giant flat gliders under my 3 noesis 212hts, and i have a bunch of giant flat gliders here waiting for my 2x S2s that are coming on weds. Herbies product works, atleast it does in my ears.
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post #15323 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Start out with it on the carpet and then see if you need isolation. I had mine on a suspended wood floor on carpet and there was a whole lotta shakin goin on. On a cement slab I'm thinking, not so much. smile.gif

BTW, the reviews on the Herbies site made me laugh (not in a good way) tongue.gifwink.gif
This is what i was thinking as well, maybe it would be best to get used to the sound of the OS first BEFORE trying out any isolation type products.
Quote:
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I use these under mine, as does RMK(he recommended them to me)....well RMK used to tongue.gif
http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Non-Skid-Adhesive-Durometer/dp/B003IMODW8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1390793947&sr=8-3&keywords=sorbothane+feet
I have the same ones in my wish list on Amazon as I may put my center channel on the OS when it arrives, don't know if this is the best idea but with an isolator it may work just fine.
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post #15324 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

i have giant flat gliders under my 3 noesis 212hts, and i have a bunch of giant flat gliders here waiting for my 2x S2s that are coming on weds. Herbies product works, atleast it does in my ears.
I have looked at putting these also under my LS9 line source speakers as they just are on the standard bases, I don't even have any spikes under them as the carpet is somewhat newer and my wife would have a FIT if she found out i had spikes piercing her carpet! Anyways is the difference fairly noticeable under your Noeseis 212HT's?
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post #15325 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post

I have a new Orbit Shifter that should be shipping hopefully tomorrow, has anyone tried any sound isolation/decoupling type devices with there Orbit shifters? I have a concrete foundation with a deluxe carpet pad and a low pile carpet and have been looking at possibly purchasing the Herbies Audio Lab Giant fat gliders to put underneath the OS to try out. Any feedback and thoughts in regards to anybody elses experience would be great thank you.
I would try it out first. I have my Os's on concrete slab with deluxe pad and medium pile carpet. No issues at all.

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post #15326 of 31063 Old 01-26-2014, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

You have heard my Quintuples and they are most excellent for HT use.

Yes. Same compression driver as the Triple 8 right? What do you guys think the difference would be between a Triple 8 LP sealed vs a vented Quintuple? Just output? If so not a huge deal as the Triple 8 can do a bit itself and I won't get into the 120's...

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post #15327 of 31063 Old 01-27-2014, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I use these under mine, as does RMK(he recommended them to me)....well RMK used to tongue.gif
http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Non-Skid-Adhesive-Durometer/dp/B003IMODW8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1390793947&sr=8-3&keywords=sorbothane+feet

I found that these did not hold up particularly well under the weight of the OS's. Several had pancaked and were a bit of a mess to remove when I sold the OS's. I think they might be better suited to <100lb speaker isolation. I used Great Gramma isolation risers for the placement of my Noesis speakers on top of the Orbit Shifters and the GG's did an excellent job.

I think that the Great Gramma's would work well as isolators under the OS's, but you would need two GG's for each OS and they are a little pricey for what you get IMO.

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post #15328 of 31063 Old 01-27-2014, 02:51 AM
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My OS LFU came with rubber feet . (It sits on a tile floor)

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post #15329 of 31063 Old 01-27-2014, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

No problem ...

Observation:

Last night the wife was in the mood for some music and we watched most of the This Is It bluray. With only the Triple 8LP pair as L&R, a Slanted 8 center channel and no subs it sounded great. I'm running the T8's as full range and the S8 with a 80hz xover and the bass was pretty good. The interesting thing was it seems the vocal clarity (intelligibility) was a bit better without the Orbit Shifters.

Makes me wonder how well tamed the OS's actually were in my HT. redface.gif



In my system , the OS sounds great but if it is set too hot (for music) , the sound field totally collapses .

What subs are you going to go with ? (because you will miss not having the option to turn the subs "up" once in a while smile.gif )

Samsung 55 inch lcd
Marantz sr5400
Parasound HCA 1500
Parasound HCA 1000
JTR OS LFU
Paradigm studio 40's -fronts
Paradigm CC
Paradigm atoms -rear
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post #15330 of 31063 Old 01-27-2014, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

No problem ...

Observation:

Last night the wife was in the mood for some music and we watched most of the This Is It bluray. With only the Triple 8LP pair as L&R, a Slanted 8 center channel and no subs it sounded great. I'm running the T8's as full range and the S8 with a 80hz xover and the bass was pretty good. The interesting thing was it seems the vocal clarity (intelligibility) was a bit better without the Orbit Shifters.

Makes me wonder how well tamed the OS's actually were in my HT. redface.gif

Setting the stage to justify the OS sale I see...

tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by J View Post

In my system , the OS sounds great but if it is set too hot (for music) , the sound field totally collapses .

What subs are you going to go with ? (because you will miss not having the option to turn the subs "up" once in a while smile.gif )

Subs? Rob doesn't need any stinkin subs! LCR 215T is only like 3db down from dual OS!

What's -3db in the big picture?!?!?
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