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post #15301 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I was ordering the 215, but then figured I'll let others figure out the 18hz-20kz puzzle first. Plus, I just couldn't wait 3 months without loudspeakers. My expectations are the 215 reviews will be outstanding and I may be selling 2 month old 212s...Not too shabby as holdovers if the bug bites me again wink.gif

I am/was in a similar situation. The 215s are a little big for my room but was considering making them work somehow. Then I talked to Jeff and he told me that above 80HZ they should sound just about identical to the 212s. I have two JTR subs to cover below 80HZ so I think for my sitution, the 212s were the right solution so that is what I ended up ordering. I still can't wait to hear first impression of the 215, shiny new toys are always fun.


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post #15302 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I am/was in a similar situation. The 215s are a little big for my room but was considering making them work somehow. Then I talked to Jeff and he told me that above 80HZ they should sound just about identical to the 212s. I have two JTR subs to cover below 80HZ so I think for my sitution, the 212s were the right solution so that is what I ended up ordering. I still can't wait to hear first impression of the 215, shiny new toys are always fun.

Exact thing he told me. Plus, by not having to spend on amps etc, I was able to justify trying two very reputable subs for now.

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post #15303 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I am/was in a similar situation. The 215s are a little big for my room but was considering making them work somehow. Then I talked to Jeff and he told me that above 80HZ they should sound just about identical to the 212s. I have two JTR subs to cover below 80HZ so I think for my sitution, the 212s were the right solution so that is what I ended up ordering. I still can't wait to hear first impression of the 215, shiny new toys are always fun.
1
Thats echo's what I heard. Although, I'm interested in what they will do under 80hz in 2 channel! I would think they should have a bunch more midbass than the 212's though, in any case, I should be able to retire my 2242H's as mid bass modules..... HOPEFULLY haha tongue.gif

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post #15304 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

1
Thats echo's what I heard. Although, I'm interested in what they will do under 80hz in 2 channel! I would think they should have a bunch more midbass than the 212's though, in any case, I should be able to retire my 2242H's as mid bass modules..... HOPEFULLY haha tongue.gif


Without EQ I bet they would sound just like the 212's in the mid bass region (80-200 hz or whatever is agreed to be mid-bass). Crank up the bass tone control or EQ and it would of course be a different story.

That's the other thing. With subs it's easy to just adjust the trim up or down on the receiver, but with full range mains no subs I assume this will be much more complicated?


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post #15305 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

1
Thats echo's what I heard. Although, I'm interested in what they will do under 80hz in 2 channel! I would think they should have a bunch more midbass than the 212's though, in any case, I should be able to retire my 2242H's as mid bass modules..... HOPEFULLY haha tongue.gif

Where do you live? Might need to make a road trip when you get them. cool.gif

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post #15306 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

RMK did I read several post ago where you sold your main spks & getting the new full range JTR,if so what are you using for spks? Sorry for being so nosy but I like your HT & was wondering if full range would be a good thing without subs,but yrs ago I used spks without subs! One more question what kind of cd does my 2009 triple 12 have? thanks

I have a little 3 channel setup with the T8LP's as mains and a Slanted 8 as center (no subs eek.gif) and it sounds pretty good. smile.gif
I think you might be one CD/Xover from the current model. Not worth an upgrade (IMHO).
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Without EQ I bet they would sound just like the 212's in the mid bass region (80-200 hz or whatever is agreed to be mid-bass). Crank up the bass tone control or EQ and it would of course be a different story.

That's the other thing. With subs it's easy to just adjust the trim up or down on the receiver, but with full range mains no subs I assume this will be much more complicated?

I will be able to do trim adjustment with my Integra and I have a variety of options to EQ the LFE channel with the Rane as it is down stream of the Integra. The major concern I have is speaker position ... we all know that good bass is all about location.

Re it sounding like the Noesis 212, I would think it will be very close with the new 12" wood horn with a lower xover and different dispersion being the variables. SInce the 15" woofers will be handling frequencies up to 300hz I think I might see some improvement in midbass but only time will tell ... smile.gif


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post #15307 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have a little 3 channel setup with the T8LP's as mains and a Slanted 8 as center (no subs eek.gif) and it sounds pretty good. smile.gif
I think you might be one CD/Xover from the current model. Not worth an upgrade (IMHO).
I will be able to do trim adjustment with my Integra and I have a variety of options to EQ the LFE channel with the Rane as it is down stream of the Integra. The major concern I have is speaker position ... we all know that good bass is all about location.

Re it sounding like the Noesis 212, I would think it will be very close with the new 12" wood horn with a lower xover and different dispersion being the variables. SInce the 15" woofers will be handling frequencies up to 300hz I think I might see some improvement in midbass but only time will tell ... smile.gif


Archaea and I were talking about you with Mark Seaton last weekend. See how I just name dropped right there.... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

That was one of the topics, speaker location/bass. If I remember right you put your 212's right on top of the subs so it would be roughly the same location for the 215's as you had the OS's right? All should be fine? Now, maybe horns work differently than ported subs when it comes to location? I don't think so though...


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post #15308 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

That i'm no expert on, Just that i figured everyone was getting custom crossovers, that i point out that mine was built with a regular crossover.

I was told by other parties that there should be a difference when woofers are stacked vs MTM, but then again, if it can pass muster at JTR, i'm sure that it has run its course and Jeff found it to be ok.
The regular XO is a custom XO. Jeff designs (custom) and builds all his XOs with no outside help. What most are calling custom are actually reworked versions of the XOs he has already designed.

There is no XO in the JTR line up that Jeff did not custom design/build. smile.gif

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post #15309 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Slinkee View Post

I wonder how low of a frequency could be achieved if two 12's were used in the 210t instead of two 10's? 72" tall for the 215 is just too large for those of us without a separate home theater room and an f3 in the upper 30's for the 210t just doesn't quite cut it for me. But a 45" tall TMM design with two 12's that could reach into the low-mid twenties would be great.
The 10" and 15" woofers Jeff will be using in the FR speakers are a completely different design then the 8" and 12" woofers in the 228 and 212. In order for the above situation to work he would have to

have another 12" woofer designed along with a different cabinet and XO. It would be a completely different speaker that would not offer much over the 210t.

In order to dig deeper the cabinet would have to bigger so throwing 12" woofers in the same size cabinet as the 210t will not dig much lower at all. Surely not an f3 in the 20's. smile.gif
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post #15310 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 02:45 PM
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post #15311 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Without EQ I bet they would sound just like the 212's in the mid bass region (80-200 hz or whatever is agreed to be mid-bass). Crank up the bass tone control or EQ and it would of course be a different story.

That's the other thing. With subs it's easy to just adjust the trim up or down on the receiver, but with full range mains no subs I assume this will be much more complicated?

They "should" have more midbass just based on displacement, well in my case they will 100%, since I have the LP 212's. I will have complete control over them with how I'm going to implement them. I have an extra OpenDRC that I will be running them through before the amp. No need for anything else, I can adjust on the fly if I want and save my 4 setting for how I want them implemented. Easy as pie and setup in about 2 minutes cool.gif

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post #15312 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


The 10" and 15" woofers Jeff will be using in the FR speakers are a completely different design then the 8" and 12" woofers in the 228 and 212. In order for the above situation to work he would have to

have another 12" woofer designed along with a different cabinet and XO. It would be a completely different speaker that would not offer much over the 210t.

In order to dig deeper the cabinet would have to bigger so throwing 12" woofers in the same size cabinet as the 210t will not dig much lower at all. Surely not an f3 in the 20's. smile.gif
Chris

When I asked Jeff on the JTR forum board why he went with 10's over 12's his exact response was.....

"Jbrown, I started with the 210, trying to keep the tower narrow and then the 215 came up when trying to go lower. The 215 works out better than a few 12's and I like the look of the drivers coming almost to the edge of the cabinet."
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post #15313 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

When I asked Jeff on the JTR forum board why he went with 10's over 12's his exact response was.....

"Jbrown, I started with the 210, trying to keep the tower narrow and then the 215 came up when trying to go lower. The 215 works out better than a few 12's and I like the look of the drivers coming almost to the edge of the cabinet."
What that's saying is that a cabinet big enough to get an f3 in mid to low 20s would be so big that 12' woofers would not go all the way to the edge so if the cabinet has to be that big why not just use 15' woofers since they will fit and go all the way to the edge which looks Badass. smile.gif

I think the post I was responding to thought that simply trading the 10" woofers for 12s in the same 45" cabinet would net a f3 in the 20s. Those low frequencies are a combination of bigger drivers and cabinets.

Chris
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post #15314 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Archaea and I were talking about you with Mark Seaton last weekend. See how I just name dropped right there.... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

That was one of the topics, speaker location/bass. If I remember right you put your 212's right on top of the subs so it would be roughly the same location for the 215's as you had the OS's right? All should be fine? Now, maybe horns work differently than ported subs when it comes to location? I don't think so though...

Thanks Carp, I am still bummed that I couldn't make the GTG. I was really looking forward to meeting all of the guys and hearing some great speakers. Mark is such a good guy and wicked smart in all things audio so it is always a pleasure to talk sound with him.

You are correct about the Noesis sitting on top of the OS's and I'm hopeful that the 215T's will perform well in a similar location.


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post #15315 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

When I asked Jeff on the JTR forum board why he went with 10's over 12's his exact response was.....

"Jbrown, I started with the 210, trying to keep the tower narrow and then the 215 came up when trying to go lower. The 215 works out better than a few 12's and I like the look of the drivers coming almost to the edge of the cabinet."



Since my prior question results in a completely custom built speaker. Could the 215t be built into a smaller cabinet sacrificing the low end of 18 and raising it to the low-mid twenties?
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post #15316 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Slinkee View Post

Since my prior question results in a completely custom built speaker. Could the 215t be built into a smaller cabinet sacrificing the low end of 18 and raising it to the low-mid twenties?

At that point, I'd think you're getting pretty close to the 210t.
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post #15317 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Archaea and I were talking about you with Mark Seaton last weekend. See how I just name dropped right there.... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

That was one of the topics, speaker location/bass. If I remember right you put your 212's right on top of the subs so it would be roughly the same location for the 215's as you had the OS's right? All should be fine? Now, maybe horns work differently than ported subs when it comes to location? I don't think so though...

Bass is bass and our walls and room dimensions creating the measurable nulls and peaks distances in the room don't know if we have sealed, horn or ported subs. Symmetrical rectangular rooms are pretty easy to calculate where our nulls are at the given frequency but if I remember right RMK has a not exact rectangle from old pics. But He is surely familiar with his room smile.gif I rotated my setup 90 degrees in my living room to get symmetrical then my raw response improved dramatically.

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post #15318 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

They "should" have more midbass just based on displacement, well in my case they will 100%, since I have the LP 212's. I will have complete control over them with how I'm going to implement them. I have an extra OpenDRC that I will be running them through before the amp. No need for anything else, I can adjust on the fly if I want and save my 4 setting for how I want them implemented. Easy as pie and setup in about 2 minutes cool.gif

I have really enjoyed my OpenDRC and that was a buy I surely would do over. Being thats its inexpensive helps too:rolleyes:

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post #15319 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Omnimic looks jagged if on no smoothing and just single capture, just like REW, but when you average captures on omnimic, like most everyone does, the effect of smoothing occurs.
Average captures? Do you mean you are taking measurements in multiple LP's and then averaging these results? That would explain it then as I only take measurements from the MLP.

Doesn't this skew peoples perceptions on other peoples measurements though? I mean, if averaging results in a smoother response curve then someone looking to show off would just take multiple readings and average them right? I know it's not a competition or anything, but it does hurt people that don't know others are practicing this because these people that don't know are always left wondering why their graphs are so jagged compared to others.
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post #15320 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Omnimic looks jagged if on no smoothing and just single capture, just like REW, but when you average captures on omnimic, like most everyone does, the effect of smoothing occurs.
Average captures? Do you mean you are taking measurements in multiple LP's and then averaging these results? That would explain it then as I only take measurements from the MLP.

Doesn't this skew peoples perceptions on other peoples measurements though? I mean, if averaging results in a smoother response curve then someone looking to show off would just take multiple readings and average them right? I know it's not a competition or anything, but it does hurt people that don't know others are practicing this because these people that don't know are always left wondering why their graphs are so jagged compared to others.

No - the mic stays in one position. You just average x 'captures' of that postion to ensure the capture is accurate - so if the floor creaks, the cat meows, whatever - it's still overall accurate. The averaging effect is slight smoothing, nothing drastic.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #15321 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 07:15 PM
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Would appreciate a little knowledge on how I can best utilize this information:


Harman Axial Standing Waves Calculator

Room dimensions: 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

Height: 8 ft --- 71Hz 141Hz 212Hz 283Hz

Width: 15 ft --- 38Hz 75Hz 113Hz 151Hz

Length: 18 ft --- 31Hz 63Hz 94Hz 126Hz

Room volume = 2,160 Cubic feet

Would I be reading this correctly in that if my speakers have a +/- 3db of less than 60Hz and I crossover to subs at 60Hz or below, that I would only have to deal with (peak/nulls) at 31Hz and 38Hz?
If this is correct, can 31Hz and 38Hz be dealt with by sub placement alone?

-Thanks
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post #15322 of 23409 Old 01-25-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

No - the mic stays in one position. You just average x 'captures' of that postion to ensure the capture is accurate - so if the floor creaks, the cat meows, whatever - it's still overall accurate. The averaging effect is slight smoothing, nothing drastic.
Oh ok, I thought you had meant it would go from like no smoothing to say 1/12 😄

When I make multiple captures without moving my mic I almost always have exact overlaid graphs so I don't think averaging will do anything to smooth mine out.

Edit* Wait a sec... Now I'm back to square one where omnimic measurements look so much smoother than rew measurements 😄 or maybe those with omnimic just have way better rooms/dsp/setup haha
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Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the Quintuple? Specifically the vertical height it is if we sat it horizontally as a center? Seem same as Triple 8 HT...

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post #15324 of 23409 Old 01-26-2014, 09:08 AM
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Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the Quintuple? Specifically the vertical height it is if we sat it horizontally as a center? Seem same as Triple 8 HT...
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3664787 smile.gif

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post #15325 of 23409 Old 01-26-2014, 09:29 AM
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thx RMK!

No problem ...

Observation:

Last night the wife was in the mood for some music and we watched most of the This Is It bluray. With only the Triple 8LP pair as L&R, a Slanted 8 center channel and no subs it sounded great. I'm running the T8's as full range and the S8 with a 80hz xover and the bass was pretty good. The interesting thing was it seems the vocal clarity (intelligibility) was a bit better without the Orbit Shifters.

Makes me wonder how well tamed the OS's actually were in my HT. redface.gif


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It
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

No problem ...

Observation:

Last night the wife was in the mood for some music and we watched most of the This Is It bluray. With only the Triple 8LP pair as L&R, a Slanted 8 center channel and no subs it sounded great. I'm running the T8's as full range and the S8 with a 80hz xover and the bass was pretty good. The interesting thing was it seems the vocal clarity (intelligibility) was a bit better without the Orbit Shifters.

Makes me wonder how well tamed the OS's actually were in my HT. redface.gif
it is good to get used to the set up as is. Not only does it sound awesome I'm sure It will make the bass for the 215's all that more powerful after getting used to less bass.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #15327 of 23409 Old 01-26-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the Quintuple? Specifically the vertical height it is if we sat it horizontally as a center? Seem same as Triple 8 HT...

You have heard my Quintuples and they are most excellent for HT use.

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post #15328 of 23409 Old 01-26-2014, 02:51 PM
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I posted this in the 228 thread, but that doesn't get much activity.

When my 228's arrive next month, I need to decide what I am going to do with my center channel. I can build a stand about 16 inches high and place it horizontally just below the screen. My other option would be to stand it vertically below the screen, maybe slightly angled up but for the most part sitting on the ground. I may be able to raise it an inch or two.

I know a vertical center is preferred, would that still be true if it is so low to the ground?

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
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post #15329 of 23409 Old 01-26-2014, 06:12 PM
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I think horizontal with a 16" high stand and slightly angled upward would be good. It would keep the midranges on the same plane vs the vertically-angled version you mentioned.
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post #15330 of 23409 Old 01-26-2014, 06:21 PM
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I have a new Orbit Shifter that should be shipping hopefully tomorrow, has anyone tried any sound isolation/decoupling type devices with there Orbit shifters? I have a concrete foundation with a deluxe carpet pad and a low pile carpet and have been looking at possibly purchasing the Herbies Audio Lab Giant fat gliders to put underneath the OS to try out. Any feedback and thoughts in regards to anybody elses experience would be great thank you.
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