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Old 01-31-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Brandon,

What is your opinion on the new Emotiva XMC-1? It's looking pretty good to me, but I'd hold off on purchase until someone verifies it isn't bug ridden.

That would be my number one concern with Emotiva. They build fine amps from what I have read but their last pre/pro launch did not exactly go smooth. My guess is it will start out buggy and take months to get "right" or maybe never quite get to "right" ever. The DIRAC is intriguing but I would not put myself at the front of the line. Pre/pros are incredibly complex to build with today's technology. I have read the Anthem D2v board and the Krell Foundation board and those have been out for a while and still have issues. That is one of the big reasons I ended up going with the 8801.....seemed much less buggy and XT 32.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:31 AM
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@asoofi1, if you're after peace of mind, you could seek out a THX certified AVR for your particular room size (see below). If you are expressly seeking an Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT enabled AVR, I believe most if not all units will be certified at the THX Ultra2 Plus level.

What the THX certification means is that the AVR will cleanly play any commercially available program material to reference level in the relevant sized room and listening distance when driving 89dB/1W/m sensitivity speakers with a minimum impedance of 3.2Ω (4Ω nominal). This assumes bass management of all satellite channels at the THX 80Hz crossover. In theory then, with the Noesis 212HT's hooked up to a THX AVR you will have around 12dB of headroom (or 16x power) at reference level.

For the XT32/THX Ultra combo with nine amplified channels, I would check out the Onkyo TX-NR3009/3010 models and their equivalent Integras. In my opinion, there's little to be gained for the price of going to the Onkyo 5009/5010 flagships.

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Old 01-31-2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I absolutely love my 8801, but after the SB and the new Danley's come in, I might be looking into something else in the near future. I love the XLR support, but I don't really like what audyssey does, and want to try out some of the other room correction systems out there. The Anthem mrx-710 with the new 1m corrections system has caught my eye. No height or wide support, which I don't need, and no XLR, but definitely worth a look. I might sell the 8801, but not until I got the Anthem and tried it out first.

You know this is now going to become an ARC vs XT32 debate tongue.gif

I think I want to stick between Denon or Marantz. Otherwise I'll be researching every other model for the next month. Oh crap. I'm already googling the mrx-710...look at what you've done!

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Old 01-31-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Brandon,

What is your opinion on the new Emotiva XMC-1? It's looking pretty good to me, but I'd hold off on purchase until someone verifies it isn't bug ridden.

That is the one that intrigues me the most, but I couldn't have said it better myself. It comes out, no bugs, or minimal issues, and allows some type of app control, You'll see one in my rack in no-time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Dirac Live room correction? Anyone know anything about that? I wonder if you can just auto eq up to 300hz ish and turn off the eq above that.

I believe JapanDave uses Dirac Live in his space with one of the standalone units, so he could maybe comment, but the REQ options seem to be very robust.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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Old 01-31-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

@asoofi1, if you're after peace of mind, you could seek out a THX certified AVR for your particular room size (see below). If you are expressly seeking an Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT enabled AVR, I believe most if not all units will be certified at the THX Ultra2 Plus level.

What the THX certification means is that the AVR will cleanly play any commercially available program material to reference level in the relevant sized room and listening distance when driving 89dB/1W/m sensitivity speakers with a minimum impedance of 3.2Ω (4Ω nominal). This assumes bass management of all satellite channels at the THX 80Hz crossover. In theory then, with the Noesis 212HT's hooked up to a THX AVR you will have around 12dB of headroom (or 16x power) at reference level.

For the XT32/THX Ultra combo with nine amplified channels, I would check out the Onkyo TX-NR3009/3010 models and their equivalent Integras. In my opinion, there's little to be gained for the price of going to the Onkyo 5009/5010 flagships.


Thats interesting, I have always thought of my 3600 ^3 HT room as medium sized. Maybe it is a large-tall. tongue.gifwink.gif

All this AVR is more than enough talk makes me more confident that my W4S amp at 1100WPC will drive the 215's. I was really close to pulling the trigger on an Lab Gruppen 10000Q but the amp talk here made me think it was unnecessary. I also considered the clone amps based upon the price but I was told that the 110 version on a 20 amp circuit only puts out approx the same watts as my W4S.
We shall see...

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Old 01-31-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

You know this is now going to become an ARC vs XT32 debate tongue.gif

I think I want to stick between Denon or Marantz. Otherwise I'll be researching every other model for the next month. Oh crap. I'm already googling the mrx-710...look at what you've done!

Hehe. That's what I am here to do smile.gif I don't want to spark the aud/arc debate, I just want to make my own supported opinion on it biggrin.gif I have never heard any other REQ other than audyssey, and can poke my fair share of holes in what audyssey does, so I want to venture away from that type product. If standalone units were available cheap, I would never consider selling the 8801 and just add-in smile.gif

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I'd doubt Marantz amp separate is any better than Emotiva amp separates. Emotiva is holding a secret warehouse sale (not sure why they call it that)

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/35357/secret-warehouse-sale-starts
priced posted include shipping and a lot of these amps are 80+ lbs - so it's a little better value there.

The XPA amps are just as good as anything I've experienced out there personally and often come in a bit cheaper -- though not sure what you've got lined up on the marantz combo...
The XPR are supposedly a bit better --- but I'm not a believer it even matters after some of the amp testing we've done in KC.

These are nice amps - but there are other amps for sale on the list too. My Generation 1 XPA-3 was a nice amp I thought and worked well with my 228HT.
XPA-3 Gen2 FR - $650 (3 channel)
XPA-2 Gen2 FR - $700 (2 channel)
XPA-5 Gen2 FR - $800 (5 channel)


To each his own...

From what I have read in this thread :Emotiva amps create an even bigger problem with JTR because they have such high gain ?
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by staaled View Post

From what I have read in this thread :Emotiva amps create an even bigger problem with JTR because they have such high gain ?

The Gen1's are the problem, where the gain is 32dB. The Gen2's they dropped to 29dB so that helps a little.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! 

Thats interesting, I have always thought of my 3600 ^3 HT room as medium sized. Maybe it is a large-tall. tongue.gifwink.gif

All this AVR is more than enough talk makes me more confident that my W4S amp at 1100WPC will drive the 215's. I was really close to pulling the trigger on an Lab Gruppen 10000Q but the amp talk here made me think it was unnecessary. I also considered the clone amps based upon the price but I was told that the 110 version on a 20 amp circuit only puts out approx the same watts as my W4S.
We shall see...

All bets are off when you are trying to drive six 15" drivers to orbit shifter levels in full range. tongue.gif

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

@asoofi1, if you're after peace of mind, you could seek out a THX certified AVR for your particular room size (see below). If you are expressly seeking an Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT enabled AVR, I believe most if not all units will be certified at the THX Ultra2 Plus level.

What the THX certification means is that the AVR will cleanly play any commercially available program material to reference level in the relevant sized room and listening distance when driving 89dB/1W/m sensitivity speakers with a minimum impedance of 3.2Ω (4Ω nominal). This assumes bass management of all satellite channels at the THX 80Hz crossover. In theory then, with the Noesis 212HT's hooked up to a THX AVR you will have around 12dB of headroom (or 16x power) at reference level.

For the XT32/THX Ultra combo with nine amplified channels, I would check out the Onkyo TX-NR3009/3010 models and their equivalent Integras. In my opinion, there's little to be gained for the price of going to the Onkyo 5009/5010 flagships.


Geez, here I was thinking I have a small to medium room, and it turns out I'm a Large. Huh. Who woulda thunk?

Your logic makes sense, but unfortunately, many AVRs are not THX Ultra2 Plus certified (likely because they don't want to pay the licensing fees if their specs already meet or exceed THX). The only manufacturers that have Ultra2 Plus certification are Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, and one Yamaha. I passed on Onkyo based on their less than stellar reliability reviews in the past couple of years and the Pioneers didn't appeal to me. For me, the Denon and Marantz seemed to have overall great reviews and plenty of features built in.

ref: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/thx-certified-products/?manufacturer=54&productType=22&category=

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by staaled View Post

From what I have read in this thread :Emotiva amps create an even bigger problem with JTR because they have such high gain ?

The Gen1's are the problem, where the gain is 32dB. The Gen2's they dropped to 29dB so that helps a little.


My Gen 1 XPA-3 worked fine with the 228HT powred by RCA off my Onkyo TX-NR1007. Trims were set to about -9 or 10 in my room. Mains and center are about 10 feet away. Probably wouldn't work with the more senstiive 212HT. with the additional 3dB down for Emotiva gen 2 I might have got away with 212HT okay in my room. Put XLR pre-amp output in the mix and probably not without attenuators (in my room anyway) because XLR sends a bit stronger voltage output than RCA typically.

Another option is to buy a stack of four Crown stereo 1000 or 1500 pro amps. Several of the guys in the recent PA meet have ventured this direction, and some of the crown amps are complely silent until they reach a certain heat threshold which is to say the fans will never turn on for home theater use. You might pm Gorilla83 or ChopShop1 for their recommendations there.

Unique Squared sells Crowns on ebay and more importantly takes offers. (often at significant discounts from what I've read on the forums. A half dozen people got Inuke DSP 3000's for $240 in buy it now offer for instance in one of the DIY threads, and those are $360 - $400 pretty much everywhere else)
http://stores.ebay.com/unique-squared-inc_Amplifiers_W0QQ_fsubZ21006515QQ_sidZ18389565QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

The Gen1's are the problem, where the gain is 32dB. The Gen2's they dropped to 29dB so that helps a little.

I'd go for the XPR personally. New, improved, and mo'powah cool.gif

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

The Gen1's are the problem, where the gain is 32dB. The Gen2's they dropped to 29dB so that helps a little.

Ah.smile.gif

The Anthem MRX-710 has received high praise for its stereo performance from members on our local HTforum.
Compared to XT-32 ARC also offers insight in the results and limited custom adjustment.

On Denon vs Marantz : Denon is considered to be a bit more dynamic where Marantz is more laid back.
I have not listened to the Denon but can attest to the Marantz sound.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:34 AM
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$$$$
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/35357/secret-warehouse-sale-starts
XPR-2 FR - $1,500 *ships via LTL freight. U.S. only.
XPR-5 FR - $1,900 *ships via LTL freight. U.S. only.

At that point I'm pricepoint hard to ignore the stack of Crowns. biggrin.gif

I'm also a fan of the yamaha p_s series
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/poweramps/ps_series/
Dead silent until they hit 90*c at which point the amp's fan spins up. In my use of a borrowed unit the amp's fan never turned on. Quality built, everything about them reeks of quality compared to many amps I've laid my grubby hands on.


How can we help you spend your money today? tongue.gif

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

My Gen 1 XPA-3 worked fine with the 228HT powred by RCA off my Onkyo TX-NR1007. Trims were set to about -9 or 10 in my room. Mains and center are about 10 feet away. Probably wouldn't work with the more senstiive 212HT. with the additional 3dB down for Emotiva gen 2 I might have got away with 212HT okay in my room. Put XLR pre-amp output in the mix and probably not without attenuators (in my room anyway) because XLR sends a bit stronger voltage output than RCA typically.

Another option is to buy a stack of four Crown stereo 1000 or 1500 pro amps. Several of the guys in the recent PA meet have ventured this direction, and some of the crown amps are complely silent until they reach a certain heat threshold which is to say the fans will never turn on for home theater use. You might pm Gorilla83 or ChopShop1 for their recommendations there.

Unique Squared sells Crowns on ebay and more importantly takes offers. (often at significant discounts from what I've read on the forums. A half dozen people got Inuke DSP 3000's for $240 in buy it now offer for instance in one of the DIY threads, and those are $360 - $400 pretty much everywhere else)
http://stores.ebay.com/unique-squared-inc_Amplifiers_W0QQ_fsubZ21006515QQ_sidZ18389565QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

The guts in the xls1000 I would steer clear of. The 1500 and up have much improved power supply boards and more meaty components. I am currently using a 1500 to run the line sources and it works beautifully. Not a peep out of it.
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I'd go for the XPR personally. New, improved, and mo'powah cool.gif

Which is also 29db gain IIRC

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staaled View Post

Ah.smile.gif

The Anthem MRX-710 has received high praise for its stereo performance from members on our local HTforum.
Compared to XT-32 ARC also offers insight in the results and limited custom adjustment.

On Denon vs Marantz : Denon is considered to be a bit more dynamic where Marantz is more laid back.
I have not listened to the Denon but can attest to the Marantz sound.

Full ARC allows a ton of customization. The full implementation is in the D2V and 50V. The MRX 710 improves the ARC over the MRX700 but it still is a limited ARC implementation. I spent quite a bit of time reading up on it over the last few weeks as I was looking at the D2V. Nick said the D2V will receive no more updates which implies no 4K upgrade. That was a dealer killer for me as I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless it had some legs for the next few years.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

$$$$
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/35357/secret-warehouse-sale-starts
XPR-2 FR - $1,500 *ships via LTL freight. U.S. only.
XPR-5 FR - $1,900 *ships via LTL freight. U.S. only.

At that point I'm pricepoint hard to ignore the stack of Crowns. biggrin.gif

I'm also a fan of the yamaha p_s series
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/poweramps/ps_series/
Dead silent until they hit 90*c at which point the amp's fan spins up. In my use of a borrowed unit the amp's fan never turned on. Quality built, everything about them reeks of quality compared to many amps I've laid my grubby hands on.


How can we help you spend your money today? tongue.gif

Ha smile.gif

Those prices are even cheaper than their holiday sale, which is *supposed* to be their best sale. Apparently the secret warehouse sale is better.

I had grabbed a screenshot during the holiday sale to compare just for this reason:


All jokes aside, the XPA Gen 2 is plenty and the best value for most who want to try amps.

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Old 01-31-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

My Gen 1 XPA-3 worked fine with the 228HT powred by RCA off my Onkyo TX-NR1007. Trims were set to about -9 or 10 in my room. Mains and center are about 10 feet away. Probably wouldn't work with the more senstiive 212HT. with the additional 3dB down for Emotiva gen 2 I might have got away with 212HT okay in my room. Put XLR pre-amp output in the mix and probably not without attenuators (in my room anyway) because XLR sends a bit stronger voltage output than RCA typically.

Another option is to buy a stack of four Crown stereo 1000 or 1500 pro amps. Several of the guys in the recent PA meet have ventured this direction, and some of the crown amps are complely silent until they reach a certain heat threshold which is to say the fans will never turn on for home theater use. You might pm Gorilla83 or ChopShop1 for their recommendations there.

Unique Squared sells Crowns on ebay and more importantly takes offers. (often at significant discounts from what I've read on the forums. A half dozen people got Inuke DSP 3000's for $240 in buy it now offer for instance in one of the DIY threads, and those are $360 - $400 pretty much everywhere else)
http://stores.ebay.com/unique-squared-inc_Amplifiers_W0QQ_fsubZ21006515QQ_sidZ18389565QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

I am using two Crown XLS-1500s (bought from Unique Squared smile.gif) to power the 212 LCRs and the quintuple back surround. The fan NEVER turned on in my setup.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:09 AM
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Amps are only needed if the AVR can't drive 4 ohm speakers with enough power. Sound quality should be the same on all unless something is wrong.

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Old 01-31-2014, 10:12 AM
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Dirac Live room correction? Anyone know anything about that? I wonder if you can just auto eq up to 300hz ish and turn off the eq above that.

Everyone at Cedia used the Datasat Rs20i for demos. It has the full version of Dirac Live. And I mean everyone. The Emo has a limited version and I'm very curious to hear the input from the early buyers.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:13 AM
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1) There are plenty of AVRs certified for 4ohm loads, and there is probably a legitimate reason the others are not.
2) Just because one person makes it work with one model of AVR - doesn't mean a different model from a different manufactorer will.
--2b) Carp what model Pioneer Elite do you have? Can you see if it's certified for 4ohm?
3) Coolgeek's experience with the 212HT is an example. Used a Martantz not rated for 4ohm and it didn't work well at all, made him think he needed to use a high power external amp. Got an Onkyo rated for 4ohm and couldn't tell the difference between external amp and Onkyo.

I turn in my vote for don't do it --- or at least call Marantz support and get their opinon.

My Pioneer receiver isn't 4ohm rated and I was able to drive my 228HT's and four QS8 surrounds extremely loud and didn't have any issues. But as soon as I tried raising the levels on the surrounds to level match them to the 228HT's, it would cause the amp to shut down after about 20mins. If I would raise the levels on the surrounds it was perfectly fine.

Now that I have a PA 7-350, I have no need to worry about that.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:48 AM
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Everyone at Cedia used the Datasat Rs20i for demos. It has the full version of Dirac Live. And I mean everyone. The Emo has a limited version and I'm very curious to hear the input from the early buyers.

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Old 01-31-2014, 11:05 AM
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Is that emotive processor ever going to be released...its been on the verge of release for about three years (or so it seems).

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:15 AM
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Is that emotive processor ever going to be released...its been on the verge of release for about three years (or so it seems).

The guys on the waiting list just got notification today as a matter of fact that units will start shipping in March. It will probably take at least a few months to cover all the presales after all this time.

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Old 01-31-2014, 11:23 AM
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Nice to see its coming to fruition...the wait has been long for many on the waiting list.

I just went to the website and listened to the podcast. Sounds like the processor it's Part of their Made in the USA initiative. That's a big change...they estimate over 80% of all emotiva products will be made in the us within 5 years.

I plan to give the processor a second look.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:06 PM
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All bets are off when you are trying to drive six 15" drivers to orbit shifter levels in full range. tongue.gif

Indeed. smile.gif

Actually, I don't necessarily want "orbit shifter levels" . I'll be happy with great sounding impactful bass and a seamless transition across all frequencies as the volume goes up. You know, the perfect loudspeaker. Now that isn't too much to ask for, is it? confused.gifwink.gifbiggrin.gif
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:40 PM
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Dirac Live room correction? Anyone know anything about that? I wonder if you can just auto eq up to 300hz ish and turn off the eq above that.

I use Amarra Symphony with iRC in my Mac mini source stereo set. iRC = Dirac. it works like this: first you use a USB mic (I use the UMIK-1) to do the measurements. This gets you a curve and a proposed target curve which in my case was between 20 Hz and about 20KHz. You can then reduce that zone as you wish. So, yes, you can limit to 300 Hz! Then, you can manually change the proposed curve.

After that, you save the result curve and apply it during playback. Four different curves can be applied. I suppose the 8 channel version is the same, only more extended.
http://www.dirac.se/en/consumer-products/dirac-rcs.aspx

My Jamo R909 speakers are by no means silly speakers. But they sound even better with Dirac. I will be getting the XMC-1 for our HT build.
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:08 PM
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The guys on the waiting list just got notification today as a matter of fact that units will start shipping in March. It will probably take at least a few months to cover all the presales after all this time.

After receiving notice earlier that they would be shipped on 2/14 after years of "coming soon". I would be shocked if they make March. I think that the new features are a smoke screen for something else, but that is just a guess. I actually bought a emo discount card because I was so interested in this, but with all of the delays, the stripped down version of Dirac and the buggy launch of the last processor, I may be out. I will absolutely wait until it has been thoroughly tested and reviewed before I buy anything.

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Old 01-31-2014, 01:51 PM
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Well, I suppose it's known that Jeff isn't very good at returning emails or phone calls, but I sort of feel like it's getting a little ridiculous. I ordered my speakers back in the end of December. I made a change a few weeks ago from a cap 1000 to a cap s2 and was able to talk to Jeff then. He said it wouldn't delay the order any, and I should be getting it soon. I emailed him about a week ago to change the 228 L/R to 212 because of reading on here and haven't heard a reply. I've tried calling 5 times, leaving messages twice, and have emailed him just hoping to get confirmation that he saw the order change. I also just want to pay the difference in the speaker price. I'm trying to be understanding but when spending over 10K on 5 speakers and a sub it seems like you could get a call back.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by casperslide2004 View Post

Well, I suppose it's known that Jeff isn't very good at returning emails or phone calls, but I sort of feel like it's getting a little ridiculous. I ordered my speakers back in the end of December. I made a change a few weeks ago from a cap 1000 to a cap s2 and was able to talk to Jeff then. He said it wouldn't delay the order any, and I should be getting it soon. I emailed him about a week ago to change the 228 L/R to 212 because of reading on here and haven't heard a reply. I've tried calling 5 times, leaving messages twice, and have emailed him just hoping to get confirmation that he saw the order change. I also just want to pay the difference in the speaker price. I'm trying to be understanding but when spending over 10K on 5 speakers and a sub it seems like you could get a call back.

I wouldn't rely on emails. Just keep calling, don't leave messages. Some days when I called I was able to get him multiple times. Other days no answer.

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