Official JTR speaker thread - Page 523 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I so love to read about new people's experiences with their jtr setup... glad u like it...

The kid inside comes out with new toys biggrin.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Very cool Asim, I can't imagine a better setup ... well, maybe one ... wink.gif . I know this is a temp setup but if you're going to leave the center horizontal you should rotate the horn.

Yeah, Audyssey dosn't know what to do with Oribit Shifters. I have some -15db XLR attenuators that will drop the OS's down into Audyssey's usable range and please PM me if you want them. The other option is to set the OS gain to one click above null. Most likely that will still be 80db or so with the Audyssey test tones (Integra and Marantz may be slightly different) but that's OK.

It's kind of funny how these speakers/sub turn "normal" people into SPL junkies. When the source material calls for loud/clean, you're ready and willing. Having all that power at your disposal is very intoxicating, isn't it? smile.gifcool.gif

Ha...I'm thinking of a separate 2-channel setup in another room to justify my next purchase wink.gif

Edit: The center will eventually be standing in final resting place, but will rotate horn if plans change for some reason...using as rack for now. Interesting thing though, I'm sitting in a chair and even with center 212 sitting on the ground, the dialogue in movies stills seems to be coming from the TV...where the center of the tv has a displacement of 50" from the horn. The dispersion can only get better from here but def don't recommend my current placement.

At -30db, the floor, pots and pots are vibrating in the kitchen thats right on top of the ht room. When standing in the kitchen, its like being next to that teenagers car with that obnoxious sound system blasting.

I'll try the click up one from null and see what happens. Right now, I have to keep volume at -60 to -50db to keep things just normal background music bass levels and it's like I'm fencing two bulls trying to get out and buck. Something is definitely not balanced yet. I think your attenuators might be necessary!
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Asim,

By setting the LFE crossover to 80 Hz you are losing all bass sent to the LFE channel from 80 Hz to 120 Hz. Consider raising it to 120 Hz.

Note that this crossover is different from the crossovers for individual speakers which may be set lower.

In other words, if you set the center channel crossover to 60 Hz, everything below 60 Hz will go to your subs and everything above will go to your center speaker. In contrast, 80 Hz LFE crossover tells the receiver to send all bass sent to the LFE channel (which is separate from speaker channels) that is below 80 Hz to your subs and drop everything above that.

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Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. You want the LFE set to 120 for sure.

Ok, I've set it back to 120. I thought it might trim back the bass at 80 and I didnt hear too much of a diff.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

There are some different schools of thought as to the LFE lpf setting. The issue is primarily with music mixes where less care may be taken with levels and content in the LFE channel. For most movie mixes it probably isn't an issue, but even so, the overwhelming majority of content that matters in the LFE channel is below 80 Hz. So just cutting it off at 80 likely has a minimal impact with movies and may save you from a fairly significant problem with music stuff. I have mine set to 80 Hz.

The flip side of that is that it is a Dolby spec and for those that want to be sure that they are catching everything up to 120 Hz and/or that don't listen to mc music, it seems to make sense to crank it all the way to 120.

There's not a single correct answer, just what your goals are and the content you're listening to.

I'm trying to hear a difference as I change it, but maybe in between at 100 might be a good middle ground?
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I'm trying to hear a difference as I change it, but maybe in between at 100 might be a good middle ground?

Leaving it at 120 ensures that you won't miss content, if it exists (it can't hurt). I do agree that most movies do not have much content between 80 and 120 Hz but if it exists you don't want to miss it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Agreed here. You aren't going to "lose" everything above 80hz, the rolloff is just a little more shallow. It is still just a rolloff, not a brick wall filter. I believe the actual difference at 120hz really is only something like 2-3dB between the two.
This is my gripe with audyssey's pre-test. I always have to back the gains WAY down to get to an acceptable level that the Marantz/audyssey likes, but then I run through the sweeps and then audyssey sets my subs at like -10 FROM THAT!!!!!! To get my system back in line with a decent house curve I usually have to come all the way back up on the trims and then add some additional back on the DCX EQ that I use. Leaving audyssey's settings alone and listening to anything sounds like absolute garbage... Remember, always eq that bottom end to your own "preference" You paid good dough, make it sound like you want it to biggrin.gif I know your neighbor Austin is a staunch supporter of this mantra, so he can give you some added pressure here biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Agreed here. You aren't going to "lose" everything above 80hz, the rolloff is just a little more shallow. It is still just a rolloff, not a brick wall filter. I believe the actual difference at 120hz really is only something like 2-3dB between the two.
This is my gripe with audyssey's pre-test. I always have to back the gains WAY down to get to an acceptable level that the Marantz/audyssey likes, but then I run through the sweeps and then audyssey sets my subs at like -10 FROM THAT!!!!!! To get my system back in line with a decent house curve I usually have to come all the way back up on the trims and then add some additional back on the DCX EQ that I use. Leaving audyssey's settings alone and listening to anything sounds like absolute garbage... Remember, always eq that bottom end to your own "preference" You paid good dough, make it sound like you want it to biggrin.gif I know your neighbor Austin is a staunch supporter of this mantra, so he can give you some added pressure here biggrin.gif

Austin already gave me a bunch of his measurement tools to hold over here. I'm definitely going to need his help to get things dialed in...but I may need to ducktape the remote to my hand before he comes over wink.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Haha, better get some transducers hooked up to that thing. biggrin.gif

Lol...cost effective wink.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:11 AM
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My Wife watched the last half of "Through the Never" with me Saturday at -10. I won't go so far as to say she thoroughly enjoyed it but she did say that at least her ears were not hurting from the volume. She told me it would have been a lot more enjoyable had someone not been trying to play the drums on her chair the entire concert. biggrin.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:14 AM
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My life watched the last half of "Through the Never" with me Saturday at -10. I won't go so far as to say she thoroughly enjoyed it but she did say that at least her ears were not hurting from the volume. She told me it would have been a lot more enjoyable had someone not been trying to play the drums on her chair the entire concert. biggrin.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Leaving it at 120 ensures that you won't miss content, if it exists (it can't hurt). I do agree that most movies do not have much content between 80 and 120 Hz but if it exists you don't want to miss it.

The problem is that when you pop in a mc disc and it doesn't sound so good because of some 115 Hz rumble in the LFE track it's likely you'll just think the disc sucks.

I can't remember who it was that spent the time to measure the problem, but it was random and prevalent enough for me to decide that 80 Hz is where I would set the LFE lpf moving forward. Roger Dressler maybe?? Can't say remember for sure, but he's a trusted member.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

The problem is that when you pop in a mc disc and it doesn't sound so good because of some 115 Hz rumble in the LFE track it's likely you'll just think the disc sucks.

I can't remember who it was that spent the time to measure the problem, but it was random and prevalent enough for me to decide that 80 Hz is where I would set the LFE lpf moving forward. Roger Dressler maybe?? Can't say remember for sure, but he's a trusted member.

You must be right. I personally don't have any experience with MC concerts (my HT is almost exclusively used for movies or 2 channel music).

I participated in a similar thread several years ago about movies, and the conclusion was that the right crossover for movies was 120 Hz. It was in the context of pioneer receivers as they (at-least in those days) only provided a global crossover for the whole system and dropped everything above that threshold on the LFE channel. So people with full range speakers were forced to set the crossover very high or risk losing quite a bit of information.

So if Asim is primarily a movies guy he can use 120 Hz. Otherwise he can use a lower crossover and change it when watching movies (which is a pain).
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:31 AM
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If you can spin that disc and not have any air drums going....you don't deserve to own it. tongue.gif So you done good
I have a 13' x 18' area between the seats and the front Speakers/entertainment cabinent that serves as my Own Private Mosh Pit for whenever I feel the Urge. smile.gif

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Old 02-05-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

You must be right. I personally don't have any experience with MC concerts (my HT is almost exclusively used for movies or 2 channel music).

I participated in a similar thread several years ago about movies, and the conclusion was that the right crossover for movies was 120 Hz. It was in the context of pioneer receivers as they (at-least in those days) only provided a global crossover for the whole system and dropped everything above that threshold on the LFE channel. So people with full range speakers were forced to set the crossover very high or risk losing quite a bit of information.

So if Asim is primarily a movies guy he can use 120 Hz. Otherwise he can use a lower crossover and change it when watching movies (which is a pain).

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall bass is not too overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall none are overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.

I apologize if I missed it but have you run XT32 yet?

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Old 02-05-2014, 09:44 AM
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I apologize if I missed it but have you run XT32 yet?

Yes, but I think I should run it again. I just put the LR on boxes to raise to ear level.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:45 AM
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The LFE setting is separate of the XO setting on XT32 in the menu. Is that what's being discussed? Example = LFE set at 120hz while the speaker XO setting is 80hz. The Oppo 95 has these separated too.

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Old 02-05-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I'm trying to hear a difference as I change it, but maybe in between at 100 might be a good middle ground?

Hearing a difference is entirely dependent on the content you're listening to, so very hard to a/b for this issue and even if you did every new disc you introduce to your system would have to be tested. So it's sort of a philosophical approach setting.

If multichannel music is a high priority for you, then you set it to 80 Hz. If movies is a bigger priority then set it to 120 Hz. But there's no right answer for everyone.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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The LFE setting is separate of the XO setting on XT32 in the menu. Is that what's being discussed? Example = LFE set at 120hz while the speaker XO setting is 80hz. The Oppo 95 has these separated too.

Yes. I'm running xt32 again right now, but LFE was set at 120, and xo for LR at 80, and center at 60.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Hearing a difference is entirely dependent on the content you're listening to, so very hard to a/b for this issue and even if you did every new disc you introduce to your system would have to be tested. So it's sort of a philosophical approach setting.

If multichannel music is a high priority for you, then you set it to 80 Hz. If movies is a bigger priority then set it to 120 Hz. But there's no right answer for everyone.

Agreed. Even clips on the demo discs I'm using right now have variances I didn't expect.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall bass is not too overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.

haha, yep. My music to movie ratio is now close to 80/20 if I had to guess.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:06 AM
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Reran xt32 and got these:






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Old 02-05-2014, 10:12 AM
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Asim
Turn your OSs completely to 0 or as low as it will go then turn it up 1 click. You can also move the Mic back further from the avr/pre. An open room is hard on Audyssey settings. Back your front speakers up, 120hz is to high.
XT32 always sets my XO to 60hz and I raise them to 80hz.

You can manually raise the XO setting but if you lower the XO it will nullify Audyssey.

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Old 02-05-2014, 10:20 AM
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the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.

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Old 02-05-2014, 10:28 AM
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the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.
I agree with this but would only do it if I could not figure out how to make it work normally. This would work once frustration sets in and the phrase F' It rolls off my tongue. biggrin.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
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So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

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Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
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Asim, your setup rocks btw.

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Old 02-05-2014, 10:32 AM
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So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?
Dynamic EQ On
Dynamic volume Off.

Chris
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Reran xt32 and got these:







Interesting. Audyssey sets my 212 fronts to 90 or 100 Hz as well, and the center to 40 Hz which I generally raise to 60. But it suggested 60 Hz for my quintuple fronts.

I need to do some measurements smile.gif
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:52 AM
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Just arrived a day late. Good thing I'm good with scissors as a wire stripping tool wink.gif

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Old 02-05-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

Off, full stop
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