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post #15751 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:06 AM
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Reran xt32 and got these:







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post #15752 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:12 AM
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Asim
Turn your OSs completely to 0 or as low as it will go then turn it up 1 click. You can also move the Mic back further from the avr/pre. An open room is hard on Audyssey settings. Back your front speakers up, 120hz is to high.
XT32 always sets my XO to 60hz and I raise them to 80hz.

You can manually raise the XO setting but if you lower the XO it will nullify Audyssey.

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post #15753 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:20 AM
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the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.

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post #15754 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.
I agree with this but would only do it if I could not figure out how to make it work normally. This would work once frustration sets in and the phrase F' It rolls off my tongue. biggrin.gif
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post #15755 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
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So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

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post #15756 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
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Asim, your setup rocks btw.

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post #15757 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?
Dynamic EQ On
Dynamic volume Off.

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post #15758 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Reran xt32 and got these:







Interesting. Audyssey sets my 212 fronts to 90 or 100 Hz as well, and the center to 40 Hz which I generally raise to 60. But it suggested 60 Hz for my quintuple fronts.

I need to do some measurements smile.gif
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post #15759 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 10:52 AM
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post #15760 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

Off, full stop

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post #15761 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Asim
Turn your OSs completely to 0 or as low as it will go then turn it up 1 click. You can also move the Mic back further from the avr/pre. An open room is hard on Audyssey settings. Back your front speakers up, 120hz is to high.
XT32 always sets my XO to 60hz and I raise them to 80hz.

You can manually raise the XO setting but if you lower the XO it will nullify Audyssey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

Ok. Set shifters to +1 click, all speakers to 80Hz, dynamic volume is off, dynamic eq off.

N8, do you mean set all speakers dB to 0? Right now LCR is -12, surrounds are -5.5, and subs -12.

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post #15762 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:10 AM
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yea that's what he means. I am doing the same as n8 where I just use the pink noise to set my speakers at 85dB after audyssey instead of 75 like it calls for. This makes "reference" then on the marantz to be -10 instead of 0.0. It just frees up room so you don't need attenuators. The OCD in me hates it, but I have started getting used to it already.

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post #15763 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

yea that's what he means. I am doing the same as n8 where I just use the pink noise to set my speakers at 85dB after audyssey instead of 75 like it calls for. This makes "reference" then on the marantz to be -10 instead of 0.0. It just frees up room so you don't need attenuators. The OCD in me hates it, but I have started getting used to it already.

Just afraid of turning subs to zero...it'll just get louder, no? What am I missing?

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post #15764 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Just afraid of turning subs to zero...it'll just get louder, no? What am I missing?

They mean 1 click up from 0 or off on the OS amps

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post #15765 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:20 AM
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At 80Hz for ALL speakers, movie clips sounding great. Not sure why audessey sets channels so low....details get lost. Always had to adjust these in the past, but never brought everything to zero, thinking shouldnt mess with audessey settings too much.

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post #15766 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

They mean 1 click up from 0 or off on the OS amps

Yes, the physical knob on amp is set to +1. The level zero is set in manual audessey speaker levels.

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post #15767 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:22 AM
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I have to adjust the audyssey trims EVERY time I run it. not just for preference, but audyssey doesn't always get the mesh between mains and subwoofers right as it doesn't test this as part of the EQing process. Sometimes manually adjusting can make a decent audyssey run be night and day better. There is also the sub distance tweak for audyssey that could help as well.

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post #15768 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Just afraid of turning subs to zero...it'll just get louder, no? What am I missing?

Not saying this is the case but if I remember right from my S2 subs, the volume dial is not intuitive. Maybe "0" = max on the OS volume knob. Make sure you have towards minimum volume just turn it both ways during content to confirm)...just can't remember from memory what that is on the volume knob. I believe my knob on the S2s is around 20% from minimum...much past that and the volume starts shaking the roof off the house. Then I use the volume on my AV8801 for each channel if I want to adjust any channel...including the subs.
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post #15769 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:35 AM
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Holy crap!!

Book of Eli demo scene. At only -20dB...bullet just hit me square in the chest and forehead. And a couple grazed my shins. But don't worry...I'm ok.

I can't recall experiencing this level of overall realism, sound immersion, clarity, and dynamic punch from any ht I've been in.

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post #15770 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

Not saying this is the case but if I remember right from my S2 subs, the volume dial is not intuitive. Maybe "0" = max on the OS volume knob. Make sure you have towards minimum volume just turn it both ways during content to confirm)...just can't remember from memory what that is on the volume knob. I believe my knob on the S2s is around 20% from minimum...much past that and the volume starts shaking the roof off the house. Then I use the volume on my AV8801 for each channel if I want to adjust any channel...including the subs.

I had originally set it midway with initial audessey speaker setup, so had to dial back to zero in order to turn down, so knob definitely is from min to max.

This the OS volume knob, which I have set at +1 for now:


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post #15771 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:47 AM
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'Book of Eli blew my head off at -20 - no other system has ever done that...'


Hahaha - Cause you aren't at -20dB.

-20dB is only -20dB if Audyssey puts your test tones on the AVR at 75dB.

I'd wager you're probably actually around oh say - 5 when you are thinking you are -20.

tongue.gif

-12 is the minimum trim Audyssey can do, so seeing that all your channel trims are at -12 means Audyssey threw up its hands and told you good luck - I can't help you. You really have no clue what SPL levels you are listening to anything at without having an SPL meter or Omnimic and manually setting all channels to the same dB setting. Nate and Brandon are saying to use 85dB as your new dB match point for all channel trims because the speakers are so efficient you CAN'T get to 75dB, so you won't be able to use 0 as reference. If you manually match all your channel trims to 85dB instead then you can use -10 as the same 'reference' volume that everyone else would say is reference = 0 on their system. To make this work you get out your SPL meter and make each speaker and sub hit 85 dB by adjusting channel trims individual on each channel's AVR test tone.

If you don't do this then the AVR's 0 reference volume mean absolutely nothing relative to anyone else's gear. That is the point of a 'reference' after all! tongue.gif


If this doesn't make sense get Austin back over there to square you up, or call me sometime and I'll walk you through it.

I have a feeling your bass is probably like 35 dB hot, and your channel levels may be all over the map. biggrin.gif
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post #15772 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I had originally set it midway with initial audessey speaker setup, so had to dial back to zero in order to turn down, so knob definitely is from min to max.

This the OS volume knob, which I have set at +1 for now:

I think you have the gain knob at 1 click before Max. 0 is max 00 is lowest. Try 1 click above 00. http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/submersive-hp-manual-4931140

The amp on the SubM HP is the same. This link has some tips on the amp.
Chris

VOLUME" knob is labeled as negative dB with 0dB attenuation as maximum gain. Clockwise is louder, counter clockwise is quieter. This is similar to most receiver volume controls which read out negative dB levels (relative to a calibrated reference). For most systems I've found -16 to -10dB a typically useful starting point to adjust from. Your SubMersive can deliver as much output at 0dB as it can at -30dB or lower. -30dB just requires about 30x the input signal level (from preamp or EQ) to produce the same bass output as at 0dB

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post #15773 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:00 PM
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Yes, so since we know the OS goes to 11....You are just barely on 10 my friend.

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post #15774 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:01 PM
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I think you have the gain knob at 1 click before Max. 0 is max 00 is lowest. Try 1 click above 00. http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/submersive-hp-manual-4931140

The amp on the SubM HP is the same. This link has some tips on the amp.
Chris

Copycat...thats what I just said tongue.gif
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post #15775 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:04 PM
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Copycat...thats what I just said tongue.gif
I meant to say "I agree with Frohlich" +1. smile.gif

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post #15776 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

'Book of Eli blew my head off at -20 - no other system has ever done that...'


Hahaha - Cause you aren't at -20dB.

-20dB is only -20dB if Audyssey puts your test tones on the AVR at 75dB.

I'd wager you're probably actually around oh say - 5 when you are thinking you are -20.

tongue.gif

-12 is the minimum trim Audyssey can do, so seeing that all your channel trims are at -20 means you really have no clue what levels you are listening to anything at without having an SPL meter and manually setting them all to at least the same dB setting. Nate and Brandon are saying to use 85dB as your match point for all channel trims because the speakers are so efficient you CAN'T get to 75dB, so you won't be able to use 0 as reference. If you manually match all your channel trims to 85dB instead then you can use -10 as the same volume that everyone else would say is 0. To make this work you get out your SPL meter and make each speaker and sub hit 85 dB by adjusting channel trims individual on each channel's AVR test tone.

If you don't do this then the AVR's 0 reference volume mean absolutely nothing relative to anyone else's gear.


Get Austin back over there to square you up.

I have a feeling your bass is probably like 35 dB hot, and your channel levels are all over the map. biggrin.gif

Blah blah blah Jonathan tongue.gif haha...it sounds beautifully ridiculous!

But yes, you're right, it needs fine tuning and an SPL meter is needed. Which is recommended?

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post #15777 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:11 PM
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Don't bother with an SPL meter. Get Omnimic or a Umik-1 and use REW. It's nearly criminal to own a system like you have and not be able to do full suite measurements to get the best out of it. smile.gif
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post #15778 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


I think you have the gain knob at 1 click before Max. 0 is max 00 is lowest. Try 1 click above 00. http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/submersive-hp-manual-4931140

The amp on the SubM HP is the same. This link has some tips on the amp.
Chris

VOLUME" knob is labeled as negative dB with 0dB attenuation as maximum gain. Clockwise is louder, counter clockwise is quieter. This is similar to most receiver volume controls which read out negative dB levels (relative to a calibrated reference). For most systems I've found -16 to -10dB a typically useful starting point to adjust from. Your SubMersive can deliver as much output at 0dB as it can at -30dB or lower. -30dB just requires about 30x the input signal level (from preamp or EQ) to produce the same bass output as at 0dB

You are right Chris. I just ran test tones on each sub and turned knobs counterclockwise... Bass went down. I thought Jeff would have set it to low instead of max prior to shipping...strange. Time to run audessey again and see what happens.

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post #15779 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall bass is not too overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.

Denon and Marantz AVR's "remember" the LFE setting for each listening preset kinda. For example, any dolby preset such as TRU HD, Dolby Digital or PLX will all go back to the last sub trim you had it at no matter what input. Like if I use the Dolby surround music preset for listening from my Mac Mini then go to Blu Ray to watch a movie in Tru HD the trim will be at what I set to listen to music. I wish it would be by input selection but a slight nuisance like you said. The $5 D remote app is the simplest to change on the fly. But if you listened in Stereo for music you would be fine execept some previews are in stereo...

PSN ID: Jlpowell84
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
My Setup Thread
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...4-s-setup.html
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post #15780 of 30452 Old 02-05-2014, 12:19 PM
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+1 on the SPL meter. I have an RS one and never use it now that I got my Cross Spectrum Labs UMM-6 USB mic and mic stand partnered with rew...If you really wanted one I will sell you my SPL for really cheap.

PSN ID: Jlpowell84
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
My Setup Thread
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...4-s-setup.html
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