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post #15751 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Leaving it at 120 ensures that you won't miss content, if it exists (it can't hurt). I do agree that most movies do not have much content between 80 and 120 Hz but if it exists you don't want to miss it.

The problem is that when you pop in a mc disc and it doesn't sound so good because of some 115 Hz rumble in the LFE track it's likely you'll just think the disc sucks.

I can't remember who it was that spent the time to measure the problem, but it was random and prevalent enough for me to decide that 80 Hz is where I would set the LFE lpf moving forward. Roger Dressler maybe?? Can't say remember for sure, but he's a trusted member.

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post #15752 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

The problem is that when you pop in a mc disc and it doesn't sound so good because of some 115 Hz rumble in the LFE track it's likely you'll just think the disc sucks.

I can't remember who it was that spent the time to measure the problem, but it was random and prevalent enough for me to decide that 80 Hz is where I would set the LFE lpf moving forward. Roger Dressler maybe?? Can't say remember for sure, but he's a trusted member.

You must be right. I personally don't have any experience with MC concerts (my HT is almost exclusively used for movies or 2 channel music).

I participated in a similar thread several years ago about movies, and the conclusion was that the right crossover for movies was 120 Hz. It was in the context of pioneer receivers as they (at-least in those days) only provided a global crossover for the whole system and dropped everything above that threshold on the LFE channel. So people with full range speakers were forced to set the crossover very high or risk losing quite a bit of information.

So if Asim is primarily a movies guy he can use 120 Hz. Otherwise he can use a lower crossover and change it when watching movies (which is a pain).
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post #15753 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:31 AM
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If you can spin that disc and not have any air drums going....you don't deserve to own it. tongue.gif So you done good
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post #15754 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

You must be right. I personally don't have any experience with MC concerts (my HT is almost exclusively used for movies or 2 channel music).

I participated in a similar thread several years ago about movies, and the conclusion was that the right crossover for movies was 120 Hz. It was in the context of pioneer receivers as they (at-least in those days) only provided a global crossover for the whole system and dropped everything above that threshold on the LFE channel. So people with full range speakers were forced to set the crossover very high or risk losing quite a bit of information.

So if Asim is primarily a movies guy he can use 120 Hz. Otherwise he can use a lower crossover and change it when watching movies (which is a pain).

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall bass is not too overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.

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post #15755 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall none are overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.

I apologize if I missed it but have you run XT32 yet?

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post #15756 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I apologize if I missed it but have you run XT32 yet?

Yes, but I think I should run it again. I just put the LR on boxes to raise to ear level.

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post #15757 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:45 AM
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The LFE setting is separate of the XO setting on XT32 in the menu. Is that what's being discussed? Example = LFE set at 120hz while the speaker XO setting is 80hz. The Oppo 95 has these separated too.
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post #15758 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I'm trying to hear a difference as I change it, but maybe in between at 100 might be a good middle ground?

Hearing a difference is entirely dependent on the content you're listening to, so very hard to a/b for this issue and even if you did every new disc you introduce to your system would have to be tested. So it's sort of a philosophical approach setting.

If multichannel music is a high priority for you, then you set it to 80 Hz. If movies is a bigger priority then set it to 120 Hz. But there's no right answer for everyone.

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post #15759 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

The LFE setting is separate of the XO setting on XT32 in the menu. Is that what's being discussed? Example = LFE set at 120hz while the speaker XO setting is 80hz. The Oppo 95 has these separated too.

Yes. I'm running xt32 again right now, but LFE was set at 120, and xo for LR at 80, and center at 60.

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post #15760 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Hearing a difference is entirely dependent on the content you're listening to, so very hard to a/b for this issue and even if you did every new disc you introduce to your system would have to be tested. So it's sort of a philosophical approach setting.

If multichannel music is a high priority for you, then you set it to 80 Hz. If movies is a bigger priority then set it to 120 Hz. But there's no right answer for everyone.

Agreed. Even clips on the demo discs I'm using right now have variances I didn't expect.

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post #15761 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

I knew this would happen with the 212 and part of the reason I chose these over the 228, but I am listening to more music than watching movie demos. I can see music taking the ratio of usage as time goes by. The bass for music performance is really something I have to tame...movie performance varies so far for each demo clip but overall bass is not too overwhelming than when I put on music. I think this is where a full range would be a far easier speaker to setup, but I'm confident I can make this work. Otherwise it is a slight nuisance to change the LFE each time...maybe the sr7008 can save settings in diff modes...I'll have to see.

haha, yep. My music to movie ratio is now close to 80/20 if I had to guess.

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post #15762 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:06 AM
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Reran xt32 and got these:







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post #15763 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:12 AM
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Asim
Turn your OSs completely to 0 or as low as it will go then turn it up 1 click. You can also move the Mic back further from the avr/pre. An open room is hard on Audyssey settings. Back your front speakers up, 120hz is to high.
XT32 always sets my XO to 60hz and I raise them to 80hz.

You can manually raise the XO setting but if you lower the XO it will nullify Audyssey.
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post #15764 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:20 AM
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the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.

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post #15765 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.
I agree with this but would only do it if I could not figure out how to make it work normally. This would work once frustration sets in and the phrase F' It rolls off my tongue. biggrin.gif
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post #15766 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
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So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

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post #15767 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:31 AM
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Asim, your setup rocks btw.

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post #15768 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?
Dynamic EQ On
Dynamic volume Off.
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post #15769 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Reran xt32 and got these:







Interesting. Audyssey sets my 212 fronts to 90 or 100 Hz as well, and the center to 40 Hz which I generally raise to 60. But it suggested 60 Hz for my quintuple fronts.

I need to do some measurements smile.gif
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post #15770 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 10:52 AM
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post #15771 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

Off, full stop

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post #15772 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Asim
Turn your OSs completely to 0 or as low as it will go then turn it up 1 click. You can also move the Mic back further from the avr/pre. An open room is hard on Audyssey settings. Back your front speakers up, 120hz is to high.
XT32 always sets my XO to 60hz and I raise them to 80hz.

You can manually raise the XO setting but if you lower the XO it will nullify Audyssey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

the trim levels dont matter. Raise all your speakers to 0, adjust all speakers to be match, that will give you all the room to adjust your OS's however you need ( It doesnt have to be 0, jist whatever you meed to be able to adjust your OSs properly) Set all speakers to 80hz and have fun. Changing trims, channel levels does nothing to your calibration, it will always stay the same. There may be a slight change because of volume levels but it would be slight.

Your new reference will be however many dbs lower you had to turn up you channel levels ( or close to it, slp meter and find it, You should be able to adjuat your avr to the new reference in the menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, just to recap correct xover settings..... 80hz rlc, 120hz sub. This would apply to 228hts and a cap 2400 too I suppose for 100% movies? Seems like I've heard this before.

Also, do you guys like dynamic volume and eq from audessy on or off?

Ok. Set shifters to +1 click, all speakers to 80Hz, dynamic volume is off, dynamic eq off.

N8, do you mean set all speakers dB to 0? Right now LCR is -12, surrounds are -5.5, and subs -12.

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post #15773 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:10 AM
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yea that's what he means. I am doing the same as n8 where I just use the pink noise to set my speakers at 85dB after audyssey instead of 75 like it calls for. This makes "reference" then on the marantz to be -10 instead of 0.0. It just frees up room so you don't need attenuators. The OCD in me hates it, but I have started getting used to it already.

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post #15774 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:15 AM
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yea that's what he means. I am doing the same as n8 where I just use the pink noise to set my speakers at 85dB after audyssey instead of 75 like it calls for. This makes "reference" then on the marantz to be -10 instead of 0.0. It just frees up room so you don't need attenuators. The OCD in me hates it, but I have started getting used to it already.

Just afraid of turning subs to zero...it'll just get louder, no? What am I missing?

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post #15775 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:16 AM
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Just afraid of turning subs to zero...it'll just get louder, no? What am I missing?

They mean 1 click up from 0 or off on the OS amps

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post #15776 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:20 AM
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At 80Hz for ALL speakers, movie clips sounding great. Not sure why audessey sets channels so low....details get lost. Always had to adjust these in the past, but never brought everything to zero, thinking shouldnt mess with audessey settings too much.

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post #15777 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

They mean 1 click up from 0 or off on the OS amps

Yes, the physical knob on amp is set to +1. The level zero is set in manual audessey speaker levels.

me stuff: LCR
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post #15778 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:22 AM
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I have to adjust the audyssey trims EVERY time I run it. not just for preference, but audyssey doesn't always get the mesh between mains and subwoofers right as it doesn't test this as part of the EQing process. Sometimes manually adjusting can make a decent audyssey run be night and day better. There is also the sub distance tweak for audyssey that could help as well.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #15779 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Just afraid of turning subs to zero...it'll just get louder, no? What am I missing?

Not saying this is the case but if I remember right from my S2 subs, the volume dial is not intuitive. Maybe "0" = max on the OS volume knob. Make sure you have towards minimum volume just turn it both ways during content to confirm)...just can't remember from memory what that is on the volume knob. I believe my knob on the S2s is around 20% from minimum...much past that and the volume starts shaking the roof off the house. Then I use the volume on my AV8801 for each channel if I want to adjust any channel...including the subs.


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post #15780 of 23493 Old 02-05-2014, 11:35 AM
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Holy crap!!

Book of Eli demo scene. At only -20dB...bullet just hit me square in the chest and forehead. And a couple grazed my shins. But don't worry...I'm ok.

I can't recall experiencing this level of overall realism, sound immersion, clarity, and dynamic punch from any ht I've been in.

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